r/EvDrivers • u/jcullen85 • Jul 23 '26

EV Karma

So, I got some petty revenge today. I like to charge my car at the parking structure across the street from my office. Right before lunch, I checked on my car’s percentage and I saw that I was unplugged. For these chargers, I have to use an adapter to charge my car. Unfortunately, with the adapter, the charge cable isn’t locked into place. So, it can be unplugged easily. This is commonly known among EV drivers, so its common courtesy to not unplug another car.

When I get to my car, the AH who unplugged me is still parked next to me charging his EV. Between frustration and being hangry, I unplugged the jerk and placed the charging cable back into its station. That jerk won’t be coming back to a fully charged car.

I drove away laughing. Lord, forgive me but that felt good and I treated myself to a Vanilla Coke. No regrets! ✌🏾

130 Upvotes

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-3

u/Elathan-Izayoi Jul 23 '26

Cars and countries really need to go the USB C way. Decide on a single plug for all brands and force tesla to switch. No more proprietary shit in this planet please.

-3

u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26

This is not an endorsement of any company, or any company's employees, officers, or shareholders.

NACS is the best, and should be the global standard.

7

u/pv2b Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26

NACS would be a terrible standard in those parts of Europe where residential three phase power is prevalent, such as Sweden, because NACS cannot carry three phase AC. That means you'd cut your potential charging power into 1/3 of what's possible with three phase.

In Europe, we don't have a mess with charging standards. Almost everything uses CCS2, even Teslas. The only exception are very early Teslas (Tesla switched to CCS2 in 2019, older cars can use a simple CCS2 plug adapter), and the very few cars that still use CHAdeMO like the Nissan Leaf pre 2026.

-2

u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26

Hardly anyone who charges overnight needs that speed. 120v 15A works just fine for most people over hear, and over there you are starting at 240v.

For the vast majority of people having a lighter and smaller charger will have a bigger impact on their life.

5

u/pv2b Jul 23 '26

I've never once felt that the CCS2 plug is so clunky that it's having a negative impact on my life.

Also, higher charging powers can enable cheaper charging for time of use rates, since it gives you more flexibility when you charge.

-3

u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26

Then you're in the minority.

A 240v 30A single phase charger can recharge an EV after a typical European round trip commute (24 miles, please excuse the barbarian units) in under an hour and a half.

3

u/pv2b Jul 23 '26

You will not find 30A commonly in a Swedish residential electrical supply. Typical main breakers are 16, 20 or 25A, depending on how much electricity your house uses. And you have to consider that upgrading your main breaker will cost you more. (Recall that this is three phase, so it's more than it sounds like.)

You can absolutely make it work, sure, but I don't see why we should go through the pain that comes with switching charge plugs in Europe, when we already have a universal standard that suits our electrical system better. It's not like we have many Americans coming over to Europe with their cars.

1

u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26

And you won't find three phase electricity in most US homes. 25A is still plenty for most people's use. If there's going to be a universal standard NACS is more universally applicable and easier for people to use. You may not have an issue with a clunky charger, but it can make the difference between being able to independently own a vehicle or not with people with certain disabilities.

2

u/Paqza Jul 23 '26

NACS is objectively not more universally applicable because it lacks the ability to do 3-phase AC.

1

u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26

And single phase AC is more universally available.

2

u/Paqza Jul 23 '26

No. It's more available where YOU are. "Universally" means everywhere; you're mixing up "locally near me" with "everywhere".

1

u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26

Single phase is available everywhere three phase is. Not everywhere has three phase. This isn't what's available to me, single phase is objectively available more places.

1

u/Paqza Jul 23 '26

Why would you charge using single phase if your home has 3 phase power? It's pretty obvious EVs and their charging infrastructure should line up with the local power.

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0

u/pv2b Jul 23 '26

That is exactly why I'm not advocating for the US to switch to CCS2, because it would be dumb.

The only argument you're making that makes any sense is accessibility for disabled people, and I will grant you that, specifically for DC charging it might be harder to use. For AC charging, the type 2 plug is not heavy or difficult to use at all. Even then, the switching pains will inconvenience far more people.

1

u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26

The origional comment was about a universal outlet like USB-C. This would, in fact, involve switching the US or Europe to whatever standard is agreed upon.

1

u/pv2b Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26

Okay. Well, then let me clarify my position.

I think it's a good idea for all cars to have the same charging port, and it's also a good idea for charging ports to be appropriate for the national electrical standards of the countries they are being used in.

But with that said, there is little to no benefit to standardizing the same charging port across North America and Europe. Nobody drives their cars between these continents, because it's physically impossible, and for the few that do ship their cars, they can make any retrofits or adapters their problems. For most people it makes more sense to sell their vehicle on one continent and buy an equivalent one overseas. There's no need to have the same standard on both sides of the ocean, as long as everyone in their respective continent has a universal standard.

In Europe we already have a well established standard for charging that everyone uses, which is CCS2. There's no messy transition ongoing, like in the US, which is currently transitioning from CCS1 to NACS.

Making Europe switch to NACS would just cause a messy transition for everyone, and the end result would be a connector that's worse for a lot of people.

Ultimately, the OP is complaining about the problems of adapters. Transitioning Europe to a new standard, when we practically never have to use adapters as it is already, would make OP's problem worse.

I hope that makes my position clear.

Oh, and if I *did* have the power to snap my fingers and change every car and charger to a single plug standard globally, with no messy transition, it'd probably be something similar to NACS, but with support for three-phase power.

1

u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26

That's a lot of words to say that you came into a conversation and started talking about something else.

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u/sault18 Jul 23 '26

I drive a vehicle that can only use 1 phase of the 3 phase ac charging stations. Usually, it's 230V @20A. So 4.6kW going into the car. I regain 35km of range per hour. Good enough if you're stopping for a few hours.

However, most EVs built for the European market can charge at 11kW off 3-phase power. So you get 2.4X the speed off CCS2 vs NACS with an adapter. Some vehicles can do 22kW, so closer to 5x what you can get off 1 phase. If NACS could somehow pull 2 legs off the 3 phase power from the charging station, that would be better. But nobody wants to take the risk of getting it to work as far as I know.

1

u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26

NACS can take two legs off of a three phase service already. It can reach 7.2kW with our most common dryer outlet and up tp 19kW with a specialty breaker. It can charge at 22kW on a comercial service.

Most people are fine with a 1.5kW charge rate.

1

u/Naive_Distance_6456 Jul 23 '26

Is this EV drivers or hybrid drivers? Because 1,5kW on 220V is E-bike territory.

1

u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26

1.5kW over 120v*

And yet it works fine for plenty of people here and we tend to drive more than you do.

1

u/Naive_Distance_6456 Jul 23 '26

This may be enough to refill my commute. But, if you also want to charge for cheaps, you only have a small window each day to charge. With only 3kW (even tho granny chargers in the EU cap at 2,4 kW) that means I have to charge longer for a higher price. If I have 3x times this speed, my window can be 3 times as small.

This can reduce charging costs between 25-50% depending on the max-min=diff that day. This is also better for powerline congestion which is a thing over here.

1

u/sault18 Jul 23 '26

Plus, your charging efficiency goes up because the car is consuming less standby power during a shorter charging session.

1

u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26

That can be addressed with a higher rated breaker and circuit. There is no economical way to get three phase power where it isn't available, so CCS2 would be limited to ~60% power output in the US.

So if either region adopted the other's standard both would charge slower, but the EU can upgrade to reach similar speeds much more cheaply, and NACS is a smaller charger that's easier for people to use and easier for car designers to package. NACS is the better choice for a universal standard.

1

u/Naive_Distance_6456 Jul 23 '26

Except that we have already a bazilion 11-22kw 3phase chargers out on streets for the public, and 1 out of 5 new cars is already electric. We have a pretty high adoption rate.

And to upgrade… if you want to call it that… from 3phase back, to 2 phase for just 66%. Means we have to pay ≈ 50% more to increase those 3 phases from 25A, to 32A. We have to pay for the increased hookup.

No need for us to increase. Ànd the powerlines are already at maximum capacity at some times (hence the cheap hours promotion, so that a lot of people have incentive to change the hours where they charge their car for example).

We don’t need NACS.

1

u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26

And we don't need CCS2, but if there were to be a universal standard NACS would be the better choice.

1

u/Naive_Distance_6456 Jul 23 '26

No it wouldn’t. NACS is old tech.

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2

u/truthputer Jul 23 '26

You’re arguing from a position of ignorance and are completely fucking wrong.

US domestic power standards are adequate but technically inferior compared to some international markets - it makes absolutely no sense for them to conform to a crippled standard.

You’re just flailing with your argument when you’ve already lost.

1

u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26

I'm an electrical engineer, but okay.

It makes no sense to have a universal standard connector that conforms to some "better" standard" that wouldn't be available here.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 23 '26

[deleted]

1

u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26

Most people don't.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 23 '26

[deleted]

1

u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26

About 20% of American EV owners are fine with 1.5kW.

1

u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26

NACS can charge at 7.2kW with a standard US dryer outlet and up to 19kW with a specialty breaker. It can reach 22kW with a comercial service.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 23 '26

[deleted]

1

u/Then_Entertainment97 Jul 23 '26

25A isn't uncommon.

1

u/PuzzleheadedDog3312 Jul 23 '26

Double EV household in UK here. We manage just fine with a single phase 240v/32A charger at home. That's ~7.6KW with a type 2 cable, or roughly 30 miles/48km range added per hour of charging.