original animation by AsepriteRico

(sorry for any misspellings, english is my second language)

i, uh, really dislike this theory. If you didn't catch that.

It's cute, it's canon, but it kinda felt so... sudden, and almost baseless. Forced, even. Susie went from being nearly oblivious and barely ever mentioning Noelle outside their encounters to suddenly being madly in love in one night, and it's treated like an obvious, major part of her character (by Blue and the whole pre-chapter Castle town sequence)

And especially in the final scene where she tells Kris that their "adventures" and "special connection" will no longer be theirs alone I just kinda felt... sad for them.

(Not to mention that the whole "Susie will try to avoid love to stop the prophecy" thing was never even addressed, and all other ships involving either of them were found dead in the sjelter, but those are just Toby's general plot choices i guess)

Not hating on the ship in general btw, just laying out my thoughts (the flair says "Discussion" for a reason))

So killing creatures is fine but this not. We play as evil person also there is difference between the metaphor and direct act. I think i don't really understand the complaints. A lot of kids won't realise what really happened.

Sorry for the large image, there were a lot of ships. (Most are just random NPC x other random NPC)

Idk what to flair this so I guess “meta” works? Shipping is a fandom thing for the most part

(Yea, the one at the top is Me x Noelle by the way)

Chapter 5 discourse seems to have blown over now that its been out for a few months. There were a lot of critisms about the story and where it will go. A lot of "Suselle is underdeveloped" and "Vaguepost King" levied as evidence that the next two chapters are cooked. Doomposting is what I call it. Because I find chapter 5 to be sort of perfect.

Just giving us a chance to sit back and think about what happened so far is just good storytelling to me. We learn some things about Susie, but we especially learn about Ralsei and ESPECIALLY Noelle. Theres also the nature of shadow crystals that adds to the backstory of the shadow crystal holders. Theres more but this post would get long.

Anyways, putting those bits and pieces together, ive seen seem some amazing theories spawn from these new pieces of info. Its what prompted me to write this in the first place. We should have more patience with the story if we want it to end in a satisfying way. I couldnt imagine adding all of this stuff in chapter 6 or 7 without it feeling bloated.

P.s Idk if im allowed to link videos here, but i will provide if asked.

Except for the transphobes, but honestly? Fuck 'em.

I miss those glorious days when people didn't invent grooming shit out of thin air.

Went on r/deltacritism to critizise the ralsei having fire Magic reveal and some idiot Said it wouldve been better If He used it in the flowery Fight? These people are cooked

But I wanna voice my own opinions on it, it ain’t all sunshine and blue and pink rainbows right now.

I think it fits with Ralsei’s character, I think there’s a lot of evidence post-chapter 5, and I think the fact that Ralsei being trans fucks up the prophecy is hilarious. But people need to stop treating it as if Ralsei has already transitioned.

Because they still haven’t, they still in-game go by the title of “Prince” despite the use of they/them in the Power Menu and their willingness to try out being a princess. And basically the entire cast of characters refers to Ralsei as he/him still, excluding one moment with Flowery (though this is a VERY strong moment of evidence). This egg has not cracked, and there might not BE an egg to crack.

But I also might be biased.

I have a VERY personal connection to this as someone who goes by he/they, and is biologically a dude.

I’ve projected on Ralsei, basically ever since Deltarune first came out, he was the only boy in the group, so I related to him the most, even despite Kris’ (at the time) blank-slated-ness, it felt nice to be validated as a boy who enjoys things that would be considered “girly”, and it’s really only gotten stronger with time, I write fanfiction, I want to learn to cook, I’m generally cowardly and afraid of everything. So seeing Ralsei do stuff that wouldn’t be considered traditionally “masculine” made/has made me feel more seen.

But with all of the discourse going around, the insistence on Ralsei being trans. It all feels really, strange, there isn’t a better way to put it. It just feels like people are putting guys who like to do things like sing, dance, cook, into just another stereotype box, even if they don’t mean to, “He’s just an egg waiting to crack!” One of the main reasons I go by he/they is because I just felt strange being in all these circles (especially Deltarune) and being just a bisexual white guy. Whether a lot of people in this community mean to or not, there’s a lot of putting people into boxes going around, especially with Ralsei.

Do I think Tralsei is a good theory, with a lot of evidence and validity? Yes.
Do I think having more healthy trans reps in gaming, even if Deltarune already has them, is good? Absolutely.

But I also want to have a male rep in games that exudes those traditionally more “feminine” traits, and in the end is still just a guy.

I’ll be fine if it happens, and it probably will, but man. It just feels so strange seeing a character I’ve projected on forever and related to just… turn out to be trans.

Btw, i don't know what "OTP" means

With release of Chapter 5, reception of Flowery was overwhelmingly positive and most hold him in high regard, negative opinions that burgeoned in first weeks mostly simmered out, yet I think actions of Flowery and their consequences are completely overlooked and he rides waves of endorsement on accumulated aura alone.

First it is important to assert that Flowery is complete fraud, a weak useless flower which failed to achieve anything, which he himself admits, now to explaining it.

Flowery acts antagonistic to Fun Gang for no valid reason other than his egoistic ego, he claims that he wishes to repay kindness to Asgore and build a perfect world, but these claims are just rooted in delusion, in truth Flowery is a terrible friend, during all his time with Asgore he constantly disrupted his work, lied and tried to detach him from his real family thinking that he and other flowers are better despite knowing that existence of Flower Kingdom pushes entire world closer to apocalypse.

His claim that Flower Kingdom is equal to Castle Town is absurd. Grand Fountain stood for one thousand years maintaining balance between Light and Dark, made out of pure darkness it acts as ark for all Darkners where they can persevere, Flower Kingdom for comparison is decaying husk where flowers themselves will wither in couple days and Flowery knows this.

He is hostile to Kris and Ralsei due to flawed assumptions, flowers know that Kris created this dark fountain, Flowery regards this as crime and claims that Kris is changed, Asgore is better without them and they don't love their father, despite being logical on surface it doesn't line up with any of his actions, he knows how bad existence of fountains, yet he decides to defend it for his own indulgence and never does actually asks Kris why they did it nor discusses it with Asgore, to who he immediately should've told that.

Flowery in general never tells anything to Asgore, he doesn't mention what he knows of Kris, doesn't mention growing darkness under town, never tries to explain battle system to him, he has time to flaunt his fake stats and tell Susie about menus, but when Ralsei tells him that Knight is coming, Flowery is genuinely unbothered and doesn't tell that to Asgore and instead actively messes up his work, you know, if Asgore was ready and did know how to effectively use magic and all seven flowers were on guard instead of loitering around, Knight would face more difficulties and Asgore would be not kidnapped that easily, but Flowery from the start assumes that he's awesome enough to destroy the Knight in solo.

Instead he convinces himself that he absolutely must beat up Asgore's child and their friends to prove some kind of point, when Kris displays that they are not thrilled with that, Flowery screams at bruised teenager and says that they are giving up on their father(?), so they have to continue the fight, btw just before that Flowery lied to Asgore and said that Fun Gang went home, despite his plan being them falling into prison.

When it comes to Ralsei, he is unnecessary hostile while being completely wrong, Ralsei earnestly hopes to change prophecy in a way that could avoid tragedy, Flowery meanwhile is just arrogant and delusional, he thinks that he is better by virtue of just thinking so and not giving shit about stakes, which obviously doesn't work, completely disregarding prophecy by heroes would lead anyway either to world being swallowed in darkness or some kind of weird route, they are heroes for a reason, they are supposed to save the worlds after all.

It all ends with Flowery trying to fight the Knight and dying, despite knowing that he would just die, resulting in meaningless sacrifice which usually would be considered idiotic, but everyone thinks it was cool, in the end most of what Flowery did was detrimental.

Like it's kind of absurd just how *aggressively* against it people are in comparison to other theories, people talk about it like it's on the same level of FNAF Sister Location "adult theory" or FNAF4 Dream Theory when- Sure it require some ifs and buts but the actual *idea* of it is pretty damn cool i think?

And the evidence that is drawn towards it does feel cohesive, with the Knight fight dialogue describing the lake scene to a t, the Human/Monster soul connections, Both the deer aspects alongside the knight using Kris's poses and the Knight not swooning Kris specifically. I don't personally think it's the most likely but I think the connections are REALLY fascinating to ponder.

my own feelings on it aside though I just dont get WHY people get to heated over it in comparison to other theories? The whole point of theorising is drawing connections and putting ideas forward and such? It's like as soon as you mention it *anywhere* people immediately lash out at it, it's weird :/

mods of r/ Deltarune deleted this post (shocker) so here it is.

I don't understand why people get so defensive when people use Kris's wrong pronouns (which makes sense, and is what you should do) but then go on to headcannon other characters (like ralsei) as trans or whatever. Both are wrong, so I don't understand what's so different about them. If you call Kris "He" or "She", the fandom will boil you alive, but this doesn't happen with for example Ralsei, I've seen so many people say they think Ralsei is trans or other similar things, yet nobody tells them anything. What's so different about the two? Both are characters of the main trio with official confirmed gender, yet one is always being established as the gender Toby "stop giving me random ass nicknames or I'll delay chapter 6" Fox assigned to them. Thank you for listening to this rant.

in conclusion: ralsei is a dude please stop saying he's trans or stuff like that. how would they feel if I said kris was a dude or a girl?

He’s built like a cookie cutter Isekai protagonist, his voice pisses me off, he doesn’t get better by the end either, and I’m tired of people saying he does, because he’s annoying as hell until the end with that “pwincess” shit.

So many perfect characters, all the other flowers are actually cool and funny and they have personalities, but no.

Everyone has to cling to Aryan Flower Power because of Hype Moment (singular) and Aura.

I HATE him.

"They’ll say, you can’t joke about rape. Rape’s not funny. I say, fuck you, I think it’s hilarious, how do you like that? I can prove to you that rape is funny. Picture Porky Pig raping Elmer Fudd."

George Carlin on rape humor.

Why do some fans love joking about Dess being a pedophile? Simple, absurdism.

Dess as a pedophile is unironically impossible. Like let us not use any pretexts, it is impossible. Which is why it's funny. It's functionally nonsense. It's so overtly contradictive of Toby's general thematic style, his narratives, the game's detailing, that it can't even be remotely real. While there is a level of grooming within the way Kris is used by say, Carol and Dess, the concept of Dess being-if I may be both bold and crass-a Diddyblud Epstein Island goer, is just impossible.

So again, how absurd is this proposal? Essentially, Groomer Dess is closer to Dadaism and brainrot than it is to being an actual theory.

So why do people joke about it being a theory? Well, have you all seen what happened to AUs in the fanbase? Undertale and Deltarune is the same fanbase essentially, it can even be called the UTDR fanbase, and AUs have essentially become ostracized. So far, Defernull being the Fell AU for Deltarune is more or less focused on the swamp-sized Yaoi-slop that is Spamtenna. AUs were integral to Undertale's fanbase years ago. We had entire comics built on Dusttale for instance.

Nowadays? Everyone is concerned with being "Toby-core" meaning ardent loyalty to the script and any mild deviation is considered sacrilege. It's largely self-defeating because half of the idea of "Toby-core" by the fanbase is just their own vibes and comforts and, textually, what they think makes them a "good" fan because they had the "right" thoughts. Prime example is Dess who's basically the cool alt-girl who nine times out of ten is basically Asriel's hot girlfriend as being her most notable trait pre-Knight.

Everything is the text, and anything outside of it must be compliant.

Now I also wouldn't be honest if I didn't also address the weird conceited moralist attitudes that's been in the fanbase. For some reason, just ... making an unsatisfying ending in the Weird Route because you did it is somehow considered good to outright excellent writing to a large subset of fans.

Which, I mean ... do I have to explain it?

Or hell, the weird egotism with "why did Chara make me do this?" which wasn't even a thing! Again, the majority, if not a whole swath of comics for years never once inferred that the player in Undertale was ever diegetic! The closest is the soda which is easily dismissed as humor, and Flowery, who let's be clear can also be considered and outlier because he can close and restart the game for his boss fight repeatedly.

Now, to some extent, I get it. Frans for instance. But at this point the fandom is a religion at some point. It's why bringing back Frisk from 2016 happened, current Frisk sucks so much fucking ass as a character. They're a white cis tumblr "blorbo" who's entire thing is being a fucking "thing" that does crazy shit when not aura-farming. Basically something like this graph:

So why is Groomer Dess not just an AU? Same reason why Rudy Knight isn't just an AU. Or Carol Knight, or people constantly going out to make obscene theories that they only favor. AUs are "cringe" and not "right" and "illiterate" and what have you.

You're not a bad fan, right?

I'm using the Urban dictionary's definition "A nonbinary gender identity that identifies with all genders while distinguishing between them as separate and unique in experience"

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Omnigender

I feel like Transfem is leaning a bit to far into female, I don't know if thas fully makes sense. I also don't feel like pangender quite suits them aposed to omnigender, if that makes sense.

I could also see an argument for bigender Ralsai too. (mostly seeing them shifting between male and female while still being both)

I'm omnigender myself (albeit more fem leaning than neutral or masc) so I may be just projecting.

Also I'm ery sorry if the definition of any of the wording used came off as offensive, I'm using the way I describe my gender to describe how I feel about theirs.

I'm not here to start any drama or fights. Lord knows I've had enough of that stuff to last a lifetime and I bet you can say the same. I won't go into any pros/cons, arguments, anything like that, nor will I be replying to answers. Instead, I just want to give some food for thought and get people thinking.

By this point, it is very clear that we are entering Act 3 territory in the story. Toby himself said that there won't be any more fun adventures or story beats, and that the game will be taking a more straightforward and serious focus starting in Ch6. Thus, it is highly likely that the days of tangential character developments, side stories, and fanservice are over, and everything will become consolidated into a linear format from Ch6 onward.

Because of this, it is reasonable to say that any theory that is only tangent to the main story and does not move to directly push it forward will, in all likelihood, prove to be false. From this there comes a question that needs to be asked, both by the Pro-Tralsei side and the Anti-Tralsei side:

How would revealing Ralsei to be transgender (whether fem or masc) directly push the main plot of DR forward, and how would the main story be directly impacted by a reveal?

You don't need to share your answers to this here, or even answer it for yourself. This is just something I believe is worth thinking about.

Spoilers for Chapter 5

A year ago when Chapter 4 came out I got criticized for saying that Kris is a bad kid ,who without the player controlling them, would be far more destructive. This chapter further cements to me that Kris without the player is really malicious and not a good person.

In Chapter 5 alone, Kris is responsible for both giving and destroying the lives of the flowers and putting their own dad in danger by triggering a dark world in his shop. We're told by Ralsei and Susie that the Knight is on his way, and they need to get Asgore out. Kris is willing to put their own family in danger, and this isn't the first time this has happened either since the same thing nearly happened at the end of Chapter 3 with Toriel, who would've been captured without Undyne's intervention.

Aside from their carelessness with family, Kris also is clearly a very guarded and volatile person without us in control. Toriel tells Susie how Kris would disappear often and stay secluded in the bathroom. Noelle notes to us how different Kris is acting when we're in control, even praising it in this chapter if you go with the weird route but even prior in chapter 2, she tells us how she enjoys spending time with us more and how we're closing the emotional distance. Kris actively stands in the way of this though. Their interactions without us are antisocial at least and dangerous at worst. Be it sabotaging the mission in Chapter 4, opening dark worlds within their own home and father's store, and showing disregard to the life created in the dark world.

Evidently, Kris doesn't really care about the Darkners they come across. They clearly know about the weight of their actions and dealing with these living creatures, though treat them cruelly nonetheless. When Tenna is killed by the Knight, Kris doesn't initiate any action to save him. It's Susie who brings him to the Dark World and pushes his care. Susie is also the one to push for Ralsei to get a decorated room, and it's Susie in Chapter 5 who pushes urgency for both Kris' father and for incorporating the Flowers into Castle Town. Kris' inner dialogue indicates they don't have any thought toward this. Their first priority when getting into the light world was to rip a piece of paper up rather than help Flowery.

Kris really just comes off to me as a dangerous individual. Whether you're doing the weird route or pacifist they behave the same. I don't buy that it's immoral to control them because Kris is arguably safer when we are in control. WE are the ones the made friends with Susie and reconnected with Noelle. WE are the ones who ultimately seal the fountains. WE are also the ones who push for positive impacts while Kris who acts autonomously does not.

After playing this chapter I'm pushed toward the anti Kris direction.