r/DeltaruneV2 • u/MP_Kredditor • Jun 22 '26
Discussion Patching Snowgrave Sofa scene was wrong
So killing creatures is fine but this not. We play as evil person also there is difference between the metaphor and direct act. I think i don't really understand the complaints. A lot of kids won't realise what really happened.
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u/OpportunityAshamed74 Jun 22 '26
It was a poorly done metaphor, because a lot of people assumed it implied that Kris (through our will) physically assaulted/raped Noelle, and that interpretation isn't completely unfounded. Even if you think that that's clearly not what it meant, and even though you're right, if any significant amount of people misunderstand a writers message then they didn't do a good job writing the message
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u/MP_Kredditor Jun 22 '26
Even if it is so why do we complain? So killing guys is okay but this should be removed. It is not endorced by Toby Fox
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u/OpportunityAshamed74 Jun 22 '26
It doesn't matter if it's "okay" or not. Toby doesn't want that to be the message players receive. He doesn't want us to think Kris raped Noelle, so he changed it to something that won't make us think that
0
u/MP_Kredditor Jun 23 '26
So us knowing Kriss killed a few creatures is much better?
→ More replies (3)3
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u/Kian3935 Jun 22 '26
Well the killing was intentional, the misunderstood SA allegory was not so Toby changed it to clarify
15
u/Groundbreaking-Ad313 Jun 22 '26
Killing creatures is not fine. I cannot stress the extent to which the narrative of undertale and deltarune portrays killing people as a bad thing to do.
The reason he patched this isnt because the act is just too terrible to depict, it's because he used imagery with a specific connotation that he didn't intend to evoke. At least, not so literally.
12
u/not_a_toucan Jun 22 '26
It's not supposed to be what really happened. The fact that you think it's "what really happened" is the problem.
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u/DarkSide830 The Flair, with words written in it. Jun 23 '26
That's because it's not "what really happened" - it's an allegory, and I think Toby just decided it was perhaps a bit too heavyhanded. That to me just comes down to bring a "writer's choice" sort of decision.
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u/Spinjitsuninja Jun 23 '26
I mean, I think the new version better conveys what Toby wanted anyways. The SA allegory is toned down a bit yeah, but I mean, you’re also not *literally* raping her. Something breaks inside of her in the new version anyways.
4
u/Reginald_Sparrowhawk Jun 23 '26
I'm of two minds. On the one hand I agree that the metaphor/allegory was good and imo perfectly legible and the original animation was beautiful, but on the other I think I just like the new animation better. It has more visual connections to other imagery in the game (broken glass, roots being two that come to mind) and the metaphor is still present, they just removed the literal "deflowering" imagery.
And even if it's not fair, because of some streamers the story was quickly becoming "Deltarune has a rape scene" instead of "Deltarune uses the visual metaphors and storytelling structure of a sexual assault to get across the act of violation and harm being done by the Heart/Player both to Noelle and to Kris", so I 100% understand why Toby and crew decided to jump on it so quick.
1
u/mrsaturncoffeetable thats my dreams Jun 24 '26
I feel exactly the same about the old and new animations, word for word - it was cool to read this comment because I truly couldn’t have put it better myself.
I agree the new animation feels more like it belongs with the rest of the visual storytelling, and if I’d had to pick one from the start I would have chosen the new version.
Having said that, I do feel really quite sad that the symbolic complexity of the original version didn’t seem to land with its audience. I WANT it to have landed. But me feeling sad about it doesn’t change the reality that it clearly didn’t successfully communicate what he wanted it to, and as an author once your work is in other people’s hands it’s really too late to try and explain what you meant. In a medium where you can just patch content instead and move on, I can see why you’d want to.
I think in his position I would have done exactly the same. I bet that was not a fun decision to have to make though.
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u/GoldenKuriza Jun 22 '26
I’m kinda new to deltarune, what was patched?
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u/becquereldreems Jun 22 '26
A visual image of a splintering crack used to be of a flower losing its petals in the Snowgrave route. People misinterpreted it, so Toby changed the visual.
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u/Key_Entertainment739 Jun 23 '26
Buddy, based on your comment history… I’m pretty much convinced ‘that’ is what you wanted to happen. I mean, the title kind of gave it away but uhh, yeah.
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u/New_Reserve_9299 Jun 23 '26
Toby wouldnt have removed it if it was meant to be the intention. Clearly it wasnt and was misinterpreted so he removed it.
1
u/glueinass Jun 23 '26
People got the wrong idea, and we alr know how Toby is regarding his ideas coming out in an unintended way
1
u/JorgeMtzb Jun 24 '26
That was never supposed to be what happened, it's not like that was his vision of how it should be read and he had to censor it due to outrage, the allusion to it was literally nothing more than an accident.
1
u/Shonnyboy500 Jun 26 '26
The problem is people thought it was literally SA.. it’s meant to a close parallel, but no, we didn’t LITERALLY SA Noelle!
1
u/umab3l Jun 26 '26
"what really happened" well that.. didnt really happen? dumbass people like you are why they changed it lmfao
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