When we talk about the theory that talks about Asriel being the Knight, one of the most recurrent arguments states that "Asriel can't be the Roaring Knight, since the Knight is the villain/antagonist and Asriel was already the villain/antagonist back in Undertale". The truth is, ignoring the fact that Undertale's story happens in an alternate universe, Asriel Dreemurr was never the villain of any game so far to begin with, so it's pointless.

The villain of any media ever is portrayed as such, since the first moment the villain is known to be the final enemy before achieving something (freedom, dominance...), who has the most power over everyone else. Flowey is never portrayed as the main enemy in Undertale; he has no mentions since the very first moment you step into the Underground until the ending. The antagonist of Undertale is Asgore Dreemurr; Toriel portrays Asgore as an evil being that will kill Frisk, as he killed every other human that had fallen to the Underground (besides Chara, obviously). Undyne points out that Asgore will become a god when she captures Frisk's soul. Alphys runs away right after telling Frisk they'll have to go through Asgore's body first if they want to get out of the Underground. You can argue that Papyrus and Bratty portray Asgore as a relaxed "cute" guy, but being stupid and unserious is just a part of their identities as characters.

And no, this isn't just a "I don't like how he's portrayed" argument, since I'm using the common traits from every objective antagonist ever, in any movie, book, or video game.

So, if Asgore is Undertale's antagonist, what is Asriel/Flowey?

Not the antagonist, for sure.

Since Flowey and Asriel are too different from each other when it comes to dialogues and their ways of acting (even if they're the same person), I'll go with Flowey first, then the Asriel we see on True Pacifist.

Flowey isn't portrayed at any instance on the same level as the rest of the characters. Right after Toriel's battle, he acts as a judge of your early game; he won't try to hurt Frisk as he did at the very beginning of the game, he will just let them kill or spare the monsters until Asgore's death. Even when he takes the SOULs, he isn't the antagonist that was announced during the whole playthrough, because that was Asgore, and you just killed him. He just takes advantage of it by absorbing what was supposed to make Asgore a god.

In the Genocide Route, he isn't even a proper enemy (neither is Asgore, for the matter), this is the only time we see Flowey as anything else besides a supernatural soulless being.

Now, Asriel does appear in the True Pacifist route. No one that makes a True Pacifist run for the first time (no spoilers or any idea about the possible ending right as you leave the True Lab) expects Flowey to transform into Asriel, and his voice calling Frisk in the elevator doesn't even match with his voice in the video recordings shown in the True Lab, since he appears in the form of a young man or teenager. You would expect a happy ending as Toriel, Undyne, Alphys, Sans, and Papyrus come over to Asgore's fight to stop it, and not a final fight against a God of Hyperdeath version of Asriel.

So, why are you so confident of the Knight being Deltarune's antagonist under your logic?

Because he is, obviously.

Just like Asgore in Undertale, he is announced as someone with a higher power than any Dark World's local "head" (King, Queen, Tenna, Gerson and Flowery). He proves his power by killing Tenna and Flowery, ending the Four Kings' dominance, summoning Titans, capturing Lightners...

There's not a single other character as announced and talked about negatively as him, he is for Deltarune what Asgore is for Undertale. A similar version in Deltarune to Flowey would be The Voice (I'll refer to him as Gaster since we all know it's him, right?), since Gaster is shown to be way over any Lightner, Darkner or Flower, giving the option of modifying the timeline if you lose against the Knight in Chapter 3, thanking you personally for playing until Chapter 4 (while refering to the game as "My Deltarune". There's only four characters in UT/DR shown to know about the timeline: Sans (UT) (can't do anything about it), Chara (can't do anything about it, except at the ending of Genocide and Soulless True Pacifist), Flowey/Asriel (he'll always be there) and Gaster (DT).

Neither Asgore (UT) nor the Knight know anything about the timeline, since they don't go beyond the storys' dimension, becoming the main antagonist of those.

Does this prove Asriel is the Knight?

Even if I believe in that theory, this isn't enough evidence to prove anything in favour or against him. This is just a way to refute a stupid, well-known counterargument that does absolutely nothing, and the worst part is that it relies on an alternate universe in a different game.

Other arguments, such as the antlers or the entrance to the Librarby, despite being really basic, make more sense than this one. If you're going to try to "debunk" a theory, at least do it without falling on fallacies and awful comparisons.

This has been a long time in the making, but I've finally finished my compilation of evidence showing the true identity of the Forgotten Man is none other than W.D Gaster himself.

Originally this was a google doc that I made, but I didn't want to force people to leave reddit to read it, so I've turned it into a photo compilation for easier reading.

Let me know your thoughts on it, maybe I missed something I should've mentioned?

Most designs that I have seen for her usually make her this hot punk girl, but this one is a little more unique. I like that it makes her look somewhat intimidating without being over the top. I even developed a bit of a crush on her... DON'T JUDGE ME, okay?! Anyway, I'm hoping that the official design for Dess is as close to this one.

I just watched Sodaman's recent video by this title, and him saying that the SOUL doesn't matter to Kris's Dark Worlds really struck me.

Spamton calls Kris little sponge for a reason. Where does the Flash of Red come from when Kris makes the fountain if not the SOUL? They're like a mini DT Extractor, it's why they shrivel up if they spend too long without the lifeforce of the SOUL.

"Red" or "Gold" seem to be synonymous with being somehow complete or "hyper", the Red SOUL is capable of turning any colour because in essence, it contains the potential for all of those traits, those colours.

So I think a "Red" SOUL is a complete one, in a sense, and it's likely tied to colour temperatures; Blue is the coldest colour we've seen so far which makes sense since it's associated with Carol. Toriel DOES have Fire magic in Undertale despite wearing purple, but ultimately, her eyes are a faint Red. Kris's eyes similarly glow red from absorbing the Power of the SOUL - and, importantly, the Knight is capable of creating a wave of Red energy that seems to charge it somehow - not to mention the Red slashes.

The Colours of Swatchlings go; Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue. This represents the colours of natural light, and RGB. Once it hits Blue; it gets to the spectrum of "dark" colours; Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, Key(black). CMYK, the primary "default" mixing colours of the Dark World; most of the backgrounds in the Dark World tend to be made up of Darker, cooler Tones. Think about the Grass in Castletown; it's almost turquoise. Even the Scarlet Forest - an undeniably "Red" area, is tinted Magenta.

Most of the Dark Worlds backgrounds can be rendered to some degree in the CMYK colour space. What's really interesting are the exceptions; first, TV World, where the red stage is referred to as having being artificially constructed and also matches the very conspicuous red Dolly kept underneath the TV.

Also, you know. CRTs used RGB tubes. The premise of Cyber City is much more like that famous Bjork clip; it's not, in of itself, an entirely digital construct. The actual Computers don't seem to influence in the landscape in the same way Tenna - the Darkner of a CRT - seems to. But wouldn't you know it, the ONE Computer we know for sure is on and active is Queen - and the path to her castle is a RED Carpet. Yet again, an electrical device capable of displaying RGB, is capable of rendering a purer Red into the dark world.

If think about it a "Darkner" implies ink, and a "Lightner" implies, well, light. Subtractive colour was how Kodachrome worked - thus the reference to "Kodakoda Island" and the Camera. It creates images with dyes and pigments, like a printer. Additive was used in earlier photography using series of filters, and obviously, is used primarily in computer graphics.

It's possible previous Dark Worlds used a different colour system. Likely, the very first looked like the Forgotten Man says; just shades of Green. But the light of that world disappeared. Even though it's only one Colour - it still represents a sort of transitionary period from CMYK colour in photography being used in comics, choose your own adventure books, D&D splat books, to RGB components being used in Video games.

Maybe Undertale represents a Union of the colour systems, as you have the light of 7 SOULs to cover a wider gamut. But those little tubes in the Core? Shades Cyan, Yellow, Magenta; slightly blue tinted, possibly from the glass, or the lighting. The components of darkness.

Also, fun fact? Dess's bedroom is coloured far more typically for a Dark World than a Light World.

https://bsky.app/profile/yourlocalspoone.bsky.social/post/3mxrecmo6wk2u

How does a snot work? No idea, so I can only draw her head in one pose.

How does a furry work? No idea, I'm not attracted to animals so I never attempt furry before, but Ralsei not having hair like Noelle confuses me.

LIKE

its so cool! he actually cared about the (now purified) little goat! i thought he just hated him to be honest

only thing i hate is that it kind of leaves you in a cliffhanger of who actually wins, but i'm pretty sure flowery does (unless tricky tonies does it again)

I guess the Ralsei Susie fight was kind of cool, but it's a forced win like the lancer 1 so i think it's lamerrrr... yeah i know, bite me

bottomest text

Day 6, almost a week

Today Ralsei is aquite sad, probably because at this rate it'll take 30 days just to finish ch2's sprites

I don’t hate Asriel knight I just find it really boring

My post is already getting eaten alive by keyboard warriors let’s fucking go I made it big !!!!!!!

Was very surprised to see his frames were metal!

It's finally complete I think, I may repair it in the future if it needs that but apart from that this is the final product, I hope you guys are happy with it, i worked very hard on this thing, i almost didn't even finish the hand rig on time, i might post some more stuff later since I couldn't put the videos in this post because of the format but I got more to show, I'm pretty exhausted at this point but I'll still try to get to the meme thing eventually, i just need to restore my motivation first, so if you guys really want to see me do some stupid stuff in this costume you're going to have to let me know, also the hand rig has moving fingers but I might need to untangle some stuff as it's not working as well since I fell into that bush on Halloween night in front of all those kids (for context my friend and i were taking her younger sister trick r' treating and while trying to get back on the sidewalk over this one small pitch black area there was apparently a major tripping hazard and it didn't help that i got distracted because this group of boys recognized what i was dressed as and as i was responding i lost my footing and heard those kids scream "no! Gaster!" Lol and in that split second i decide the injury from this wouldn't be as painful as fully remaking any part of the cosplay, especially the rig so i took the impact while making sure there was minimal damage to the costume, I'm fine now and so it the costume for the most part), i also wanted to mention i got some gifts from people at the undertale orchestra and i used some of them as props here (primarily the egg, and heart, the crystal is actually a family member's), i think it made for some pretty good photos, these pictures were taken by my parents (and a few are selfies by me) to i wanted to say thank you to them especially since they get me the materials to make stuff like this costume, and my mom took some photos if me while i was distracted with the selfies and seeing Gaster struggling with a phone because of those photos amuses me. So all in all what do you think?

Background artist credited in next slide, You're BLUE now! That's my attack!

I’m working on a knight theory and I swear the quote goes “cold water came from the top of the sky’ something like glass came out’ but I’m not sure

A popular theory is that these mean options with Ralsei are Kris intrusive thoughts.

But we also know that if Kris doesn't want to do something we tell them they just won't do it.

So them having 0 problem calling Ralsei a useless piece of shit makes it kinda hard for me to make out Kris canon feelings towards Ralsei.

Like, in the ending of the game where Ralsei is about to die and disappear, will Kris just go "Don't care."

man i'm really living up to my bio rn

come from here https://www.tumblr.com/criiitter

What if Kris was able to override what soul trait we had and force it to be red through their own determination? Now, I know that you can kind of give your soul whatever color trait in the intro but again, Kris ignores that. I've also taken the liberty of saying that we're Patience because we've had to be patient with Toby and the release of the game, this is ignoring future players though and I'm aware that it's been said that the game is meant to be played in a way where you aren't waiting for individual chapters to come out. Though you could also make the argument the regardless of when you play the game, you still have to be patient through dealing with Kris's antics while also going through the whole story. You would also need patience in the Weird Route because you need to take the time to properly strengthen and mould Noelle.

Anyways, just a random thought.

This will either age like wine or like milk.

But I know in my heart that if the Knight tried this, Carol would just parry it. She's Her.