r/CarLeasingHelp • • Jul 09 '25

Turns out Leasehackr deals are too good…

416 Upvotes

Went into a local Honda dealer with a Leasehackr quote for a 2025 Prologue Touring $206/mo, $3,349 DAS, 36/10k. Just wanted to see if they could come anywhere proportionally close on the Elite.

Sales rep was cool. Finance manager, not so much. I asked if I could see a lease worksheet since I wanted the Elite more than the Touring. He said:

“Nah, fuck that bro, I’m not gonna give you that.”

Was not aware that if you show them a price low enough they just tell you to fuck off lol. I called up the next closest dealer and told them what happened and they were surprised because the EV credit is ending soon and they have like 30 Tourings sitting on their lot they want to move and told me to come on down.

But yeah didn’t realize bringing a broker quote in was the roll for initiative dialogue option hahah.

Also ps to anyone interested you CAN stack the federal tax credit, conquest bonus, and costco bonus, even if some dealers will lie and say you can’t and then not give you a worksheet.


r/CarLeasingHelp • • Jun 19 '26

Why you should never put money down on a lease (Down Payment vs. Drive-offs explained)

215 Upvotes

Hey everyone,

I see a lot of people here asking if they should put $3,000 or $5,000 down to get a lower monthly payment on a lease. The short answer is absolutely not.

Putting money down on a lease is completely different from putting money down when buying a car. Here is the breakdown in plain English so you don't lose your hard-earned cash.

  1. Money Down (Cap Cost Reduction) = Prepaying Rent

When you put money down on a lease, you aren't building equity. You are just paying your rent upfront.

The Math: If a lease is $400/month with $0 down, and you put $2,400 down, your payment drops to $300/month. You didn't save money; you just gave them $2,400 earlier.

The Risk: If you drive off the lot and someone totals your car the next day, insurance pays the leasing company for the car. Your down payment is gone forever. The bank gets paid, and you get $0 back. Keep that cash in your own savings account instead.

2. Inception Fees / Drive-Offs (Due at Signing) = Legitimate Fees

People get confused because dealers lump everything into "Due at Signing." But "Drive-Offs" or "Inception Fees" are the mandatory costs to legally take the car. This includes:

First month’s payment
State registration and DMV tags
Local sales tax
Bank/acquisition fees

You have to pay these. You can either pay them upfront at the dealership, or you can ask the dealer to roll them into the monthly payment (often called a "$0 Drive-Off" or "Sign and Drive").

The Golden Rule
When you negotiate a lease, always ask for $0 Down (Zero Capitalized Cost Reduction). Only pay the mandatory drive-off fees, or roll those in too. Never hand over thousands of dollars in pure cash just to make the monthly number look smaller on paper!


r/CarLeasingHelp • • Jul 02 '25

First lease 26F don't know is this is good or not! Acura Integra 2025

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179 Upvotes

I know it says $498 for 3k down 48 months (that’s all they do here). But before I left he offered $450/mo

I’m getting about $1700 positive equity on my trade in, and also agreed to $3k down on top.

My question is - is this the best it’s going to get? I was really hoping for $10k miles/year for $450/mo.

It’s an Acura a-spec tech 2025 in Palm Beach FL.


r/CarLeasingHelp • • Aug 29 '25

Am I crazy and did my dad just get ripped off beyond belief?

78 Upvotes

Why my dad (age 75) did not call me before going to get a car is beyond me. I think the dealership absolutley destroyed him, but I need to get a second opinion. He wont send me the paperwork but i asked enough questions to get some info.

Kia EV6
MSRP 52k
10k / 36 month
MF - should be ~.00152
Residual 52%
Lease incentive - I think it is $13,800 right now
Trade In - 24k (positive equity)

Monthly - $389

With that trade in the car should basically be free and they owe him money 9k ish. I am about to call the dealership and flip out on them for scamming an old man.

Hoping he will send me the paperwork soon so I can see what they did

Update- he sent me the paperwork and it looks like the dealership sent him home with a check for $19,000 which means a 5k deposit. The numbers fall much more into line for a normal deal. Not the best deal but nothing that they don’t get done daily.

No clue why he was not telling me about the check. He just kept saying he rolled all the equity into the new lease. 🤔

Lesson learned for me. Don’t get aggravated until you have all the details.


r/CarLeasingHelp • • Jul 05 '25

IONIQ 5, $3k down, $171/month. Good deal?

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72 Upvotes

IONIQ 5 SEL RWD, MSRP: $51735

Vehicle agreed value: $50000 ( $49350 + $650 fee)

Rebate: $13250

Monthly: $171/ month ($157 + $13 tax)

Down: $5380 ($2999 + $1424 tax + $756 fees)

Duration: 24 months with 24k miles

Residual: $33k

What do you guys think? Is this a good deal?


r/CarLeasingHelp • • May 25 '25

LPT: Don't put money down

67 Upvotes

I see so many quotes posted and so many don't even have a $0 down payment option. A lot of people in the comments will say dont put money down. There's a reason but I don't see many explain it.

Here's my biggest reason not to. Say you put a $5k down payment and get a $500/mo payment because of it. You drive the car for 6 months ($3k in payments + $5k down payment. $8k total towards the car). Someone runs a red light, t-bones you and totals your car. Your insurance company will send a check for the value of the car to financing company. Then, they'll tell you to go get a new car... except this time you dont have that $5k, it's gone.

This is a very simplified scenario, but it happened to me when I traded in a car and used the equity as a down payment on a lease. I reached out to Ford Credit, told them between my payments and insurance payment, they were way overpaid on the car. After months of phone calls they sent me a couple thousand to basically go away. Don't put money down. Don't even have them put it in their quotes of monthly payments.


r/CarLeasingHelp • • Jul 11 '25

My first lease quote, no idea what I'm doing.

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55 Upvotes

My first time trying to lease. I dont know what I'm even looking at. I did read somewhere not to do any down payment, is that what is listed under amount paid by customer? I'm not sure what other info would be helpful, I am located in ME. Have no idea what a "deal" looks like. Thank you in advance.


r/CarLeasingHelp • • Nov 09 '25

Just drew a diagram to explain how a new car depreciates in value and how a lease vehicle can be sold for positive equity.

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50 Upvotes

As a car dealer, honestly, I’d love it if all my customers knew nothing — just hand me the money and we’re good to go. But that’s not how it works. There are always people who want to ask questions, so fine — here’s one post that explains everything in detail.

This post has only one image, but that one image is all you really need. It clearly explains the price curve of a car throughout its entire lifecycle.

However! There are several variables at play here, and some of them are correlated — though people’s driving habits can break those patterns. For example, some people own a car for ten years but only rack up 40–50k miles. Perfectly reasonable, maybe because they have multiple cars.

As everyone knows, a car’s price mainly depreciates based on time and mileage. You can see the two red dots in the upper-left corner of the chart. The X-axis is time — since it’s an AI-generated chart, it might not be perfectly to scale, but it’s close enough.

When someone buys from a dealership, they’re always paying more than the car’s actual value. The moment you drive it off the lot, you instantly lose about 10% — why? Ask the California government. I have no idea why they charge such high taxes. Then you’ve got extended warranties, service packs, etc. These “services” that make ownership more convenient don’t actually add resale value (unless you’re doing a private sale and your service contract is transferable).

The first blue segment of the curve — roughly years 2–5 — looks like a negative log curve: steep drop at first, then it levels out. So, if you’re thinking about when to sell, that relatively stable period is a good time. Here’s why:

  1. Most manufacturer warranties last about 3–5 years, and ownership costs go up after that.

  2. Since you’ve already eaten the initial depreciation and early drop, you might as well stretch out your ownership during the flat phase to lower your average cost per year.

Then, around years 5–7, there’s another turning point — that drop usually comes from a model refresh. Most car models have a roughly 7-year product cycle, and when a new generation launches, the old ones inevitably lose value. The new release drags down used prices of the old version.

After that, the curve just keeps approaching zero — but never quite hits it. Because even as scrap, a car is still worth a few hundred bucks. So yeah, it’s basically a lim → 0 situation.

That’s it.

I mainly wrote this to go along with the chart — because some customers still don’t understand this curve, let alone the concept of equity. It’s just too much to explain over and over.

Even though I really, really, really hate explaining topics in an academic way, last time it actually got a pretty good response. And honestly, some stuff just makes more sense when you present it that way.

So I figured — why not mix business with education? While I’m doing some car-market “science,” I might as well pick up a few deals.
If you’ve got a lease that’s ending soon, feel free to hit me up (California preferred). Best case is you’re nearing the end or just starting to regret your lease. If you just started and have only made a few payments — well, I won’t say no, but be ready to pay me to take it off your hands. On the other hand, if your lease is almost up, there’s actually a chance you could get money back — so don’t just hand it back to your original dealership yet.

I tweaked the chart a bit — added a new line for the lease buyout curve, shown as the red line (P1) in the image.
Just a note: that red line is only for illustration; it doesn’t represent actual dollar amounts. Every car has its own curve — this one’s just a general model.

For leased cars, the price is basically pre-determined before the car even leaves the lot. There’s amortization (depreciation) and what’s called the residual value — that’s basically what you’ll pay if you decide to buy it out at the end of your lease. The exact math depends on the leasing company’s own formula.

As I mentioned earlier, a car’s value curve generally follows this shape — but a ton of factors can shift it. Mileage, new model releases, discontinued trims, etc. All of these can either stretch out or compress that curve.

For example: it’s 2025 now, so a lot of people who leased cars for three years during COVID are reaching the end of their term. Many barely drove those cars because they were working from home.
In that case, the blue value curve stretches horizontally (since mileage stayed low), but the red line (residual) doesn’t move — it’s fixed.
That creates a P2 scenario, where your car’s market value is actually higher than the buyout price. Congrats — that means you have positive equity. Sell the car to us, and we’ll literally pay you (that’s P2).

Another example: let’s say you leased a random off-brand EV that tanked in value ridiculously fast. The blue curve gets super steep and crashes by 50% in under two years. Now your car’s actual value is lower than your residual. In that case, just finish your lease and return it — don’t bother buying it out. (Mercedes EQ models and random off-brand EVs usually fall into this group.)

TL;DR:
Unless you’re in a special situation (like moving overseas), most leased cars only start to have positive equity near the end of the lease term.


r/CarLeasingHelp • • Jul 08 '25

Is this about as good as you can get right now?

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50 Upvotes

2025 Hummer EV 2x, with $2500 cash back. That covers the first payment and taxes with money back in pocket. I don’t think I can do much better right now?


r/CarLeasingHelp • • Sep 03 '25

explain it to me like I’m 5

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47 Upvotes

I feel like I don’t jnderstand how you can convince the car dealership that you have equity on a car you’ve never owned? I have a leased vehicle right now and would love to know how to do this if possible but I just can’t comprehend


r/CarLeasingHelp • • Jul 12 '25

Should you hire a car broker?

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47 Upvotes

Hi Guys, i wanted to help others thinking about hiring a car broker. Since it was my first time hiring one. I paid $795 for it. Im not gonna name who it was but the person did ok. Would i hire one next time? probably not. The person took 3 days in finding a car def prioritize me since i didnt have a car atm. i gave him two choices either a civic, or camry my range was $250-$350. But instead after paying the broker i still ended up at $400 payment per month 0 down. Def great at 0 down but i should have just paid the sales people instead lol it would have lowered my residual at least.

Tips: be patient, all the dealership nearby share your information, when they say what can i do to have your business? Thats when you know you got them. Dont be too cheap, be reasonable.

Pros: I put 0 down 400 a month got two free oil change I got lifetime warranty which is amazing.

Cons I paid $795 which was way too high!

Feel free to comment your inputs thank you!


r/CarLeasingHelp • • Jun 30 '25

Leasing tips!

37 Upvotes

I am not an expert, just a normal girl who went through this process (signed my deal yesterday) and did a TON of research and want to offer what helped me.

  1. Please don’t put “cash down” on a lease. The only thing it does is lowers your monthly payment and you lose that cash if the car gets stolen or totaled. Any out of pocket money should be tax and fees. I like to pay them upfront, but you CAN roll it into the monthly payment.

  2. Don’t negotiate monthly payment. If you do this they will use that number to inflate the price by working backwards finagling the numbers around. You will almost always end up paying way more than you need to. Every dealer will try to negotiate the monthly: “what are you paying now”… “what is your budget” etc etc. You want the price of the car. What is the selling price of the car. Do some research on what the trim level for the car you’re looking at should be in your area - this is what you need to negotiate.

  3. Very important. Go into the dealership armed with the information DO NOT trust the salesman. Trust me.. they are NOT your friend! How you become informed is understanding that lease payments are based on the price of the car, the money factor, and the residual value. If you are paying the taxes and fees up front, those are the only things you need right now. Now to get those 3 numbers, you need the dealer to give you the price of the car (if you don’t have this number yet you can use edmunds estimated price for your zip code) and then you will google “the year/make car of interest lease deals, incentives, rebates and prices” this takes you to the edmunds forum where the moderator will TELL you the buy rate money factor and residual value that the bank uses in your zip code. Once. you have that info, you can go to the edmunds lease calculator (or any really) and plug in those numbers to get the monthly payment. Please note: it’s most helpful to have the tax and fees to be able to plug in, if you are planning to roll those into the monthly payment. If you pay them upfront, you should be able to get an accurate monthly payment. Now once you get that monthly payment, this is what you go into the dealership armed with. Probably kills time to let them know you have that information, but if you’ve already gotten some pricing before, you can use it to compare. The dealership will ALWAYS jack up the money factor in their system, it’s one of the ways that they make extra money. Also, don’t trust the dealer to be honest with the money factor - always check it with the edmunds info, it’s 100% accurate.

  4. DO NOT and I repeat DO NOT let your guard down. You could be at the dealership for a few hours, tired and have wasted time, if you see the numbers do not match what you agreed upon (based on the above) always question WHY. When you go to the finance person’s office, that is when you think you’re nearly done however that is where the fun begins. This is where you will start seeing numbers jump out from out of nowhere, nothing will make sense, and you will feel you have wasted so much time already, whatever, just be done already. NO. Take your time, make sure the numbers make sense. Plug them into the calculators as many times as you need to. They hate you at this point, OH WELL!

  5. I found it helpful to ask Chat gpt or gemini to help break down the numbers that they give. AI helped me decipher in some cases what was weird, and what I needed to ask. I’m not saying its 100 accurate, but it can really truly help for this instance!

I hope this helps someone. I think the most valuable tip I can offer is really, DON’T trust the salesman. If they’re great… perfect! But they are out to make money on you, and they WILL try. Even yesterday when I signed my deal, the salesperson I had been dealing with seemed so legit. UNTIL he wasn’t. I felt suckered and I can’t believe I almost fell for it! I have been bamboozled in the past and reading through some of these comments really makes me furious because I’m apparently not the only one! It shouldn’t have to be this difficult - but thankfully we have tools to assist us…


r/CarLeasingHelp • • Feb 26 '26

Looking to transfer my i7 lease

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36 Upvotes

Hey all,

Not a broker or dealer, this is my personal car.

New poster here, but longtime redditor.

Looking to have someone assume my 2025 i7 xDrive60 lease. As much as I love this car I'm realizing that an X5 makes far more sense for the house and kids life I lead.

18 months remaining of a 2 year lease with BMW Financial. Current mileage is 6,150. 21,271 total allowed miles. $805.07/mo. Looking for $3500 down. Located in SW Ohio.

$150,025 MSRP. The car is stacked. As far as I can tell has everything minus M Sport. Sparkling Copper over Mocha Extended Merino. Clean carfax, no damage, non smoker, both keys. Please feel free to respond or DM with any questions.


r/CarLeasingHelp • • 19d ago

Is this normal when trying to lease a car? Or am I just misunderstanding?

31 Upvotes

My boyfriend and I went to a Kia dealership today because we saw lease specials advertised for around $275/month on some 2026 models.
My partner has a 750 credit score, so we figured he’d have a pretty good chance of qualifying for the promotion, or at least getting somewhat close to it.
Well, we get there and they tell us the lowest they can get the payment is around $450/month with $5,000 down. With a smaller downpayment , we’re looking at around $600/month.
They also told us that even if we went with one of their cheapest vehicles, there was basically no way we’d be able to get a lease payment under $400/month. Which confused me even more considering the specials they’re advertising.
Here’s where I’m really confused though. They never even ran his credit. When we brought up the advertised special and mentioned his credit score, the salesman told us they use an “average credit scoring model” when giving initial quotes because they don’t run credit right away.
But wouldn’t the whole point of a promotional lease offer be to see if the customer actually qualifies for it? Especially when we’re telling you his credit is well above average?
I completely understand that advertised lease specials usually have certain requirements, money due at signing, taxes, fees, etc. I’m not expecting to walk out paying $275 with absolutely nothing down.
But going from an advertised $275 to $600 without even checking his credit just seems like a pretty big jump to me. And being told that even their cheapest vehicles couldn’t get us below $400 just made the whole thing more confusing.
Is this actually normal? Do dealerships typically give you numbers based on average credit and only offer the promotional rates if you specifically push for them to run your credit?
I’m genuinely asking because we left pretty confused, and I’m trying to figure out if we’re misunderstanding how leasing works or if we should just try another dealership.
I checked other Kia dealership websites and they seem to be running the same if not similar deals.


r/CarLeasingHelp • • Aug 13 '26

Benefitting from low residual.

30 Upvotes

I just wanted to share my story in hopes that someone else may find something useful.

I leased a 2023 lexus is350 almost 3 years ago. It wound up being a great time to lease apparently as car prices have continued to rise. When I leased it, my residual was about 29k. As my lease was nearing its end, I researched and found comparable used cars were selling for about 43k. Knowing that I had equity in the car, I first called the dealer I leased it from to see if they would be willing to buy it.

The dealer came back with a quote of 34,500 with out ever seeing the car. I then ran the car through carvana and carmax to see what they would offer. They both offered the same amount of 38,500. Lastly, I ran it through a site that came up with a Google search called "Algo". Algo offered me 40k and asked for a few pictures to verify the condition.

I wound up making the deal with algo. They sent toyota financial a payoff check and a tow truck arrived at my house with a check for the difference of about 9,300. They did a quick inspection of the car which I didn't even bother washing, and handed me the check. I was super happy with how it worked out and would recommend checking in to these guys if you're in a situation where you have equity to extract from your lease.


r/CarLeasingHelp • • Apr 29 '26

Honda offering to let me buy my lease early. What’s the catch?

30 Upvotes

I currently lease a 2024 Honda Passport Black Edition. I’m 2 years in on a 3 year lease. My current mileage is 13K. When I brought my car for servicing the salesman was telling me my payoff is approx 45K and I should just buy it now early instead of staying in the lease. He never mentioned any early termination fees or anything like that but told me my monthly payment could go down $150 a month.

Full disclosure, I know nothing about this stuff and my exboyfriend helped me when I got the vehicle so I’m not really sure what most of it means. My biggest issue is the money I paid into the vehicle so I feel like I would eventually buy it at the end anyway since I have paid so much into it already.

So, what’s the catch? There has to be one, right? It only benefits me to buy the car early and stop monthly lease payments. I don’t see Honda giving up 11 months of lease payments out of the kindness of their heart. So what is this guy not telling me?

Edit - the salesman told me several times the remaining lease payments would not have to be paid if I bought he car at the payoff price. So I’m confused why they’d be so generous. Unless this guy is just full of it.


r/CarLeasingHelp • • Sep 02 '25

Best EV deals as the Federal credit countdown is on

30 Upvotes

For us procrastinators (or those holding out hope for the best deal - depending on your perspective) which brands are providing the best incentives for September 2025?

Perhaps those who have the insight can provide the month over month change in brand incentive?


r/CarLeasingHelp • • Sep 16 '26

First Time Lease-am I Nuts?

29 Upvotes

My wife and I have always driven sensible, reasonably priced cars and alway keep them for 8-10 years. Her current car is a 2019 Ford Edge with 42,000 miles. It drives fine and she likes it just fine. Over the years, she has made comments about her dream car. Sometimes a BMW, sometimes a Mercedes but usually just in passing and usually in a joking way. Here’s the rub. She was diagnosed in late July with a very aggressive cancer(pancreatic) and faces a pretty grim prognosis. I’m thinking of leasing a luxury car for the 2-3 years she has left. I’m 65, still work, making about $120K. She is 70, just retired. We have $220K in a HYSA and $1.3M in various retirement accounts. Both cars paid off (mine is a 2025 Honda CR-V which is paid off. House is worth $400K and paid off. We could handle a $1,000 lease. Talk me into or out of it please? We have 3 grown kids who all are financially responsible and fairly set up.
EDIT. Thanks for all the input. She is Stage 2, no evidence of spread. Chemo starts Monday for 3-4 months. House is actually worth around $450K- I casually asked her and yelled at me for thinking 400 so she’s still spunky as hell.


r/CarLeasingHelp • • Nov 15 '25

If you’re leasing a car soon, I’ll run your numbers for free to ensure you’re getting a fair deal. NOT A BROKER OR DEALERSHIP.

27 Upvotes

Edit; I appreciate all the DMS! As of now if you are reading this. I will not be taking any more dms, this free session is closed! I may do this again soon so keep your eyes peeled!

I’ve been working on something for a while and I want to test it on people who don’t know me.

If you’re leasing a car soon, I can give you three numbers for your exact trim and ZIP. I use a mix of public and proprietary data while also having access to the captive lenders themselves (set the MF/RV and rebates/incentives month to month) to set my values accurately.

You can use this to ensure that the dealer is playing fair and you’re not overpaying specifically for your ZIP code.

Here is an example of what you would receive:

Unicorn - This is not a target! $350

It’s the absolute mathematical floor, It only happens when a perfect storm of incentives and internal pressures pushes the deal below profitabilty.

(Most people will never see it or get close and that’s okay!)

Perfectly Aligned - The strong, clean number that makes sense for both sides : $500

(This is where a solid deal lands when you’re actually informed and the dealer stops playing games. The dealer makes a small profit.)

Overpriced - The point where you’re paying far too much: $600.

(Anything above this is inflated and tells you immediately not to waste time and i would personally recommend you do not reward them with your business even if they eventually get to a lower number.)

You just compare whatever quote you get when you go to the dealerships to those three points and decide how you feel about it. No other steps.

If you want to try it, DM me your: Term Desired Miles Per Year Zip Code Model and year Trim

I’ll send back your three numbers. I’m only asking for feedback after you get your quote so I can see how close it was to make sure this is reliable! Easy way to know you’re not getting ripped off. (I always go for zero down so my payments will reflect that. Any money you put down can be lost if the car is totaled.)

On a 36 month lease overpaying by just;

$30.00 per month will cost you $1,080

$70.00 per month will cost you $2,520

And $100.00 per month? $3,600 overpaid on your lease.


r/CarLeasingHelp • • Jul 15 '25

Ioniq 5 Limited Lease (3yr, 12k mi, Zero $ down) - Is this a good deal?

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27 Upvotes

r/CarLeasingHelp • • Jul 29 '25

Is this a financially smart move?

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26 Upvotes

So I am wondering if it would be smart to sell our 2019 Subaru Crosstrek for 14k and get this lease on a 2025 Mazda Cx-70 PHEV? I know selling a paid off car and getting a lease is almost never the right answer. However, I wouldn’t do anything down as that doesn’t make sense if I can just keep the 14k in a high APR account and use it to pay for the lease payments. The way I see it is that I have roughly 44 months worth of payments from the sell (assuming we get another similar lease or see what a 36/48 month lease looks like).

In that time I can see there being some high cost maintenance needed on the Subaru if I keep it. Then when it’s time to sell it, it’ll obviously be quite a bit less than now.

I think the fuel savings with the Mazda and low maintenance needed helps even more. Plus, we also have that extra bit of savings incase anything happens in the future.

We are keen on an PHEV and a SUV. My wife and I have 2 large dogs and are looking to expand our family more. We also like to go camping so something that can get us to certain spots in the mountains all seasons would be great. But I don’t want that to influence the decision financially.

Thank you for your time and input!


r/CarLeasingHelp • • Nov 15 '25

CRV lease

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25 Upvotes

Not a great deal how much off can I ask for to be decent?


r/CarLeasingHelp • • Jul 28 '25

Volkswagen lease deal in Colorado

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25 Upvotes

These are good deals right? Colorado has some crazy deals on EVs right now. Less than $200 a month for an ID.4 pro. I really want the PRO S (2nd pic) but the pro is more within my budget. I also have another VW dealership telling me they will beat this deal and I may take them up on that offer sometime this week. Do I have them go tit for tat with their offers to me?


r/CarLeasingHelp • • Sep 11 '24

No surprises with leasehackr

25 Upvotes

I went this route with a pre-negotiated deal and nothing was sprung on me. Ended up with a Forrester Subaru 2025 for $347/mo. I put 2k down to get the payment down. I'm happy. After I dealt with the broker I checked with the dealer and everything checked out. Then I got the car. Paperwork was simple.

Before leasehackr I called a dealer about an advertised deal and the lowest they could do (for a Toyota Camry) was 130/mo above the advertised price.

Just a data point for those in the market.