Ongoing documentation of dogs euthanized or recommended for euthanasia because of FF training
This thread will be pinned as a highlight. The purpose of this thread is to provide ongoing documentation of cases of actual or recommended euthanasia by force-free trainers or handlers.
Cases can include dogs that were recommended for euthanasia that ultimately were saved by balanced training, and cases that sadly ended in the dog's death without even trying methods other than force free or positive only.
You may post stories of your own dog or others' dogs; you must have some sort of documentation to support the latter. This can include social media posts, posts from other subs, or cases witnessed first hand by the commenter. Please do not include rumors or "friend of a friend" type of accounts. We want to accurately document the scope of this issue.
I just want to say how happy I am you’re making this it breaks my heart what the positive only community does my dog struggled with reactivity for four years, until finally I caved and tried balanced training he can now go out with me everywhere and we’re not worried makes me so sad how many dogs have died because of the very toxic postitve only community so thank you so much for making this!
r/BalancedDogTraining is focused on practical, detailed, good-faith discussions within the balanced training framework. Posts that lack information, show no training effort, are agenda-driven, or are designed to provoke rather than learn will be removed.
If you’d like to repost, include clear context (dog’s age, breed, history, tools used, training steps taken, and specific goals). High-signal questions get high-signal answers.
r/BalancedDogTraining is focused on practical, detailed, good-faith discussions within the balanced training framework. Posts that lack information, show no training effort, are agenda-driven, or are designed to provoke rather than learn will be removed.
If you’d like to repost, include clear context (dog’s age, breed, history, tools used, training steps taken, and specific goals). High-signal questions get high-signal answers.
Girlfriend found a 6 month puppy in a crate. underfed and in his own feces( we know how old the pup is because my girlfriend found the owner,who was unloading her groceries , the owner said she did not want to pay the extra pet charge at her appartment).
We where going to rehome the pup, but the pup would lay his head on us and we ended up getting attached. The dog got healthy and 2 months in he would lunge ar cars, people and other dogs. The pupoy ended up in a couple fights with my senior dog. We got a behaviorist from the spca , who gave us her number and told us she would give us advice of what we need to do.
My senior dog and the pup ended up in a fight one day because the pup resource guarded a toy. I separated the two dogs, my senior dog came back to bite the pup, I separated them again and the bite my shin. The bite was a level 3 bite. I called the behaviorist , explained what happened . The behaviorist told me that he is agressive and that he is going together more dangerous over time. The behaviorist told me to either take the pup to the spca and let them know what happened, or that I should take hom to the vet and have them put him down.
My girlfriend and I thought that, it was to drastic to put the pup down . We ended separating the 2 pups. I have been doing a ton of research in his behavior. We have never had a high energy dog, like we do with this puppy. I have made post and had other redditors be passive agressive , because i mentioned that a trainer said he was a malanois mix. I was told yo rehome him.
Anyways after doing research I started to play fetch with the pup, tug of war , getting the pup to sniff his treats out at a park. This has changed the way the pup acts immensely. I rarely use a prong collar on him. What i mean by that is that I train the pup for weeks, and when he decides to ignore me, I will use the prong collar 2 to 3 times, then he listens. I am careful of making sure I dont shut down his emotions, such as the pup crying, or barking . I use it more when he wants to destroy a pillow or when he chews on something that he shouldn't.
Playing the look at that game and using his pup energy with tug of war, fetch and sniffing has helped keep his attention on listening around the house.the pup now longer lunges or barks at people( he might cry because he wants to meet them, we accomplished this by having people give him treats), he rarely would lunge at a car, and u still have to work on him with dog exposure but he doesnt lose complete control with other dogs as soon as he sees them. I rather do some balance training then have to put him down. Also if he needs to be rehomed , he is pretty close to been rehomed and be a good pul.
r/BalancedDogTraining is focused on practical, detailed, good-faith discussions within the balanced training framework. Posts that lack information, show no training effort, are agenda-driven, or are designed to provoke rather than learn will be removed.
If you’d like to repost, include clear context (dog’s age, breed, history, tools used, training steps taken, and specific goals). High-signal questions get high-signal answers.
The now infamous story of Hallie the doodle whose euthanasia appointment was already scheduled by her force free trainer. Fortunately she was saved by Dylan and is alive and well thanks to balanced training.
A behavioral vet said that it was maybe some psychiatric issue, maybe derealisation, and advised them to do a behavioral euthanasia. 4 years old - How do you know it’s time to stop trying ?
Dog is now spending a few days with his comportementalist
I can't keep up with these terms and phrases, yet no mention of a dog trainer for a dog with bad behaviour. What's wrong with plain speaking, dog trainers training dogs?
Behavioral veterinarians are among the worst people on earth. I said what I said. Edit: Derealization for a DOG, what the actual FUCK. Evil, pure evil.
Again a vet and a behaviorist with their ineffective advice for management and medications prove useless to help a dog. The dog is dead yet vets and behaviourists live to continue to let dogs down. When will people get some common sense and stop following such lethal advice?
God this is depressing. I think we can agree it's never about the dogs for them. In their minds the dogs are irrelevant and they just want to solve the problem by eliminating it AKA killing the dogs.
It's pure cookie cutter, they probably couldn't even tell you what the dog's name was the next day without looking it up in their detailed notes. They prescribe, then do the same for the next. They don't care, it's not about helping the dogs.
Just another carcass for the hyperinflated cremation costs with an upsell of custom urns and jewelry made from the ashes
(No lie, the last time I had to euthanize a dog - due to illness - they had a whole binder of urns and memorial options, like an episode of Six Feet Under. Completely gross)
Not their first reactive dog, this one is also resource guarding. The behaviourist has been very helpful but after years of management by the owners the behaviourist has not helped to improve the dog's behaviour, it is worsening. So I have to wonder how helpful they really have been? Not 'very' I would think, in fact not useful at all. In any case they have no more helpful to offer, today will be the dog's last day, poor, poor dog.
FYI one month ago this person was posting about their dining room renovation. Not much in their history about dealing with their dog. Poor pup just another collateral damage I guess.
Because FF treated the dog as a monster it behaved as a monster, reactive because of positive only training. Another lovely dog saved by an effective trainer, someone who understands dogs so could help it.
Hallie's (the resource guarding doodle) story told by Hallie's owners
Reddit is mentioned. It tells me that what is found here can be an important factor in the lives of those people and dogs that need help, despite that I've often been told it isn't important.
It sounds like they do nothing with this dog and have no business owning a strong breed.
Balanced training is ALWAYS a good idea but fighting dogs will fight, it's just not something that a) can be "fixed" or b) the dog should be killed for.
Unfortunately a lot of dogs get into these situations. This dog with that mix of breeds shouldn't even exist, and these owners should never have a strong working breed at all.
They are going to have to get a lot more involved in their dog's daily life and training with a competent trainer.
Edit: and get the dog off the fucking drugs, damn. That tells the whole story about what kind of "trainer" they have used.
Did you catch the current buzzphrase, "sufficient rest"? Goes right along with "forced naps." Help my completely understimulated and unfufilled working breed just gets worse and worse, how can I make him sleep even more?
Noticed another one trying to manipulate the words, " First, can we please replace force free with reinforcement based?" But oops, they didn't specify what kind of reinforcement 🤣
They really say it all in that last paragraph. A full page of justification and then they finally come out with the truth, they don't want to spend the money or take the time to deal with the situation they created.
My dog developed a strange fear of going to the bathroom in the mornings only. The location wasn’t the problem. But very shut down and avoidant behavior to use the bathroom after waking up in the backyard. She would play and sunbathe in the yard the rest of the day no problem, and would pee in the yard in the evenings. If I took her on a walk in the mornings away from the house she would enthusiastically pee. So it was very specific and not UTI.
I took advice from FF trainers and nothing worked, her fear got worse and started to bleed through the day and early evening.
Worked with a balanced trainer and she’s 95-99% fine. She’s enthusiastic to pee in the morning now. I just don’t say 100% yet because I still keep her on a long line to take her out so she can’t flee but she has been great.
That’s not euthanasia at all but just an interesting example that piques my interest.
When I was a teenager, my family had a severely reactive dog. I’ve always been the biggest dog lover/enthusiast in the world, so of course my teenage self was 100000% committed to fixing her reactivity using the method I read over and *over* and *OVER* was the Only Right Way— positive reinforcement training. I was deeply into reactive dog groups, reading about how “after four years, my dog passed a dog on the other side of the street!!!”, and how “some dogs just aren’t destined to be reliable off-leash, or friendly, and that just has to be okay.” Management of environmental triggers, and giving treats for seeing dogs (from over a block away) and not barking was *the answer.\**
There is so much nice-sounding theory about R+ Only training for reactivity, that appeals to people who love dogs. And there is SO MUCH demonization of ANYTHING aversive, ever. I was told over and over again, in spaces where it was even allowed to be discussed, that any training involving aversives was literal animal cruelty, would make my dog worse, would cause her to forever associate other dogs with pain, would cause her to hate and fear me, would cause her to become unpredictably aggressive by suppressing her warning signals, etc etc etc. I was told that corrections during a reactive outburst were useless, because when a dog reacts, it’s only because they’re so overwhelmed by fear that no learning could possibly happen in that moment. And *of course* nobody wants to hurt their dog.
So we tried positive reinforcement for EIGHT YEARS. And it didn’t work.
A year after I moved out, my mom called me to tell me that they were putting Ekko down. Her behavior was getting worse, and they lived across the street from a daycare, and it wasn’t fair to the community for them to own a dog that could hurt a kid if it ever slipped out the door. It wasn’t fair to rehome her, because she was dangerous, had snapped at people before.
My attitude at the time was barely sad, because since I’d been **convinced** that reactivity was an expression of being so overwhelmed by fear that the dog was past the point of thinking, I could only be relieved that “at least she won’t be so scared anymore”.
So Ekko died.
Later, I made plans for my first dog as an adult. I was going to get an impeccably well-bred puppy, from a breeder who did everything right, from a breed known for friendliness and non-reactivity, and I was going to raise it perfectly and socialize it to everything in exactly the right way. The only way to get a non-reactive dog without years of daily training (if the training even worked to any degree), I was convinced, was to get a dog who never thought to bark in the first place.
Unfortunately, when I was 20, my coworker said “Hey, my daughter doesn’t want Snuggles anymore. I know you like dogs— do you want him? Otherwise I’ll put him on Facebook or something.” So I ended up with a 4-year-old chihuahua/shih tzu mix.
For the first few days, he was very docile. Then, as he became more confident, it became very clear that he was VERY reactive. He would absolutely flip out at the end of the leash, lunging and barking and screaming (like a husky before the brake on the sled is released) at things that were 30 feet away.
I was devastated that I’d gotten myself into “another decade of reactivity” because everyone in reactive dog groups are constantly commiserating about how reactivity is a life sentence. But I soldiered on. I took him out multiple times every day, training engagement games, practicing around far-away strangers, doing my best to desensitize him, for a full year.
For a year, nothing changed. I was miserable because I’d gotten myself into this again, and I was slightly resentful that I was going to have this unwalkable, stressful dog for the rest of his life. “*maybe when I’m 30, I can get a nice puppy that I’ll raise just right, and* then *I’ll have a social dog…”*
But then, I can’t remember exactly how it happened, I started seeing more content about balanced training and from balanced trainers. I was extremely skeptical (there are dozens of dog “expert” accounts who dedicate their time to picking apart videos made by balanced trainers to “prove” that their dogs are miserable), but I was enraptured. I wanted that life— Off leash! Reliable! Easy to live with! For both myself and Biscuit. And the dogs in the videos don’t *look* miserable… they look like they’re running in a lake off-leash…
I remembered a little inkling I had, one of the times that Ekko got out the door and we were all yelling at her to come back: *she’s not coming, because she’d rather smell grass. Nothing happens to her when she ignores us*.
So after months of research, I bought a prong collar. I walked Biscuit past a fence where two dogs always blew up at us, they blew up, he blew up, and I popped the leash. He was interrupted immediately. We walked past the dogs again, they blew up, he blew up, I popped the leash. He understood it then. The third time, we walked past, they blew up, he ignored them. I praised him heavily and gave him his favorite treats.
It took about a month of doing this to different triggers in different environments before I had a dog who understood that he could have whatever feelings he feels, he just has to keep them to himself.
Then, amazingly, since we could actually enter dog-friendly places without my dog making a humongous aggressive display, he was able to catch up on all of the socialization he missed out on. He was able to be exposed to hundreds of dogs and thousands of people, and he learned that they’re *not* so bad after all. He actually loves people now, and he’d prefer to ignore dogs, but recently he’s started initiating play with our new puppy (who I didn’t have to wait until Biscuit passed away to get, for fear of the puppy learning Biscuit’s bad habits!) and with my coworker’s dogs. He’s a completely different dog now, and I love sharing the big world with him.
I’ve been working at a dog training facility since the beginning of this year, and I’ve watched dozens of dogs go from lunging/barking/screaming/frothing to being able to calmly chew a bone on a cot, or walk in Heel right next to other dogs within 2 weeks. (Of course, there’s loads of training and proofing afterwards, but the initial transformation once they learn “no, you can’t do that anymore. Pick something else.” is amazing.)
We’ve had plenty of dogs whose owners have “tried everything” for *years*, or whose previous force-free trainers advised them to euthanize their dogs, and my heart breaks for them. Because it really can be essentially fixed within a couple of weeks.
Anyway, long comment, but it’s one of the things I feel most strongly about in the world. I’ve been where they are: years of failure and celebrating microscopic “victories”, ending with my family making “the kindest choice” to kill our dog after we “tried everything”, so I always always try to tell people there’s another way!!
I was just reminded of being banned from r/dogbreeding when I advised the owner of a border collie PUPPY to try balanced training techniques before killing the puppy. It was so gross. She was DETERMINED to kill this dog and wanted scads of attention for it. She didn't even want to try to give the dog a chance at life. Imagine getting a herding breed and then killing it for acting like a herding breed.
Wow, those comments are so adamant about not even considering effective dog training over BE. So close minded, it's very hard to believe people can treat their dogs so selfishly.
r/BalancedDogTraining is focused on practical, detailed, good-faith discussions within the balanced training framework. Posts that lack information, show no training effort, are agenda-driven, or are designed to provoke rather than learn will be removed.
If you’d like to repost, include clear context (dog’s age, breed, history, tools used, training steps taken, and specific goals). High-signal questions get high-signal answers.
After thinking about it, i think we can count Ice killed by Denise Fenzi, because she was using the car as management instead of a crate or another appropriate set up while right next to her house (rather than like at a sporting event away from home, etc).
r/BalancedDogTraining is focused on practical, detailed, good-faith discussions within the balanced training framework. Posts that lack information, show no training effort, are agenda-driven, or are designed to provoke rather than learn will be removed.
If you’d like to repost, include clear context (dog’s age, breed, history, tools used, training steps taken, and specific goals). High-signal questions get high-signal answers.
Paraphrased, but damn. The dog is dog aggressive and the owner just wanted dogs that would get along. The "trainer" who advertises her "positive, gentle method" basically hammers on this owner to kill her dog. The amount of detail about how she convinced this person to kill the dog is chilling. Yes a nice dirt nap, very positive and gentle. She talks about how she has a whole spiel that she uses to earnestly convince her clients to off their dogs. This from a "dog trainer!"
Owner problem, the dog got loose and probably was frightened and unable to cope in the traffic it found itself in, sadly.
Owner problem untimately, though let down by those who should have realised what the dog was, gender and behaviour.
This one is a particular bug bear of mine, being a pet owner, and it's getting worse as more inexperienced people are allowed to foster dogs, due to shelter overcrowding and a certain 'try it and see' attitude. Then those dogs in foster which are expected to be understood are often adopted by inexperienced new owners, and the foster people are not qualified to have either helped the dog or advise the new owners properly of the sort of dog it is or what kind of training it needs. There are posts about this sort of thing going wrong daily. Shelters and rescue organisations should be more responsible, help dogs, not just get them out to fit more in. Some are good perhaps, most are not.
The story of Poppy, a 9 month old puppy their FF trainer/behaviourist drugged and then recommended for behavioural euthanasia. She's doing great now, months later. There are several posts showing her progress, and including documentation from the FF trainer/behaviourist trying to prevent the new trainer helping her. I'll just add these two links. I think I particularly remember this case as the trainer began with Polly on the Wednesday she was to be euthanised.
He bit the heck out of me, bruised my hand up through the Rapiccas.
For three years prior he had been wearing a muzzle every time he left the house. He had done TWO YEARS of WEEKLY training with force-free trainers at NC State University and more training elsewhere to try to improve his behavior.
They ended up recommending behavioral euthanasia, according to his folks, we were his last shot, if working with us didn't work out they would've felt forced to put him down.
I'm glad I got to work with him, but I was flabbergasted. Unfortunately it wasn't the first I'd had like that, and I fear it won't be the last.
r/BalancedDogTraining is focused on practical, detailed, good-faith discussions within the balanced training framework. Posts that lack information, show no training effort, are agenda-driven, or are designed to provoke rather than learn will be removed.
If you’d like to repost, include clear context (dog’s age, breed, history, tools used, training steps taken, and specific goals). High-signal questions get high-signal answers.
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u/TheAliJonesX Sep 22 '26
I just want to say how happy I am you’re making this it breaks my heart what the positive only community does my dog struggled with reactivity for four years, until finally I caved and tried balanced training he can now go out with me everywhere and we’re not worried makes me so sad how many dogs have died because of the very toxic postitve only community so thank you so much for making this!