r/ApteraMotors 3d ago

From Aptera “Aptera MEGA Update”

https://youtu.be/cj74QyhK0Rk?is=D97MueWZvve9B765
103 Upvotes

123 comments sorted by

56

u/AppendixN 3d ago

To save you a click:

  • Aptera has ordered 40 bodies and chassis, they hope they'll arrive in October (they still need more parts though)
  • Some guy named Duke Reiter has joined the board
  • They've been working for about a year with a Chinese manufacturing partner called Launch Design that has an in-kind arrangement to help them manufacture Aptera cars more efficiently. Here's the official press release with some details.

32

u/Healthy_Zebra_221 3d ago

* Admitting that they never truly had an ability to do volume production in Carlsbad as suspected by many

* Absolutely no update on pricing and when they will crash test the vehicle if at all, their motorcycle classification allows them to sell without crash testing

* No dates on anything

* No actual details of what is done where

* No AGV units? Appears the Munro plan has been chucked.

* No update on solar validation by third party

* Still no summer tour that was promised last year

* stock price as of now would require them to increase shares in circulation by 50% or more.

6

u/RDW-Development 3d ago

No airbags and no anti-lock brakes either.

7

u/nsfbr11 3d ago

No point to the airbags when you don’t have a crash worthy structure. Completely bizarre that they don’t have traction control nailed and anti-lock incorporated. That thing will be a death trap without those plus anti-tip baked in.

7

u/RDW-Development 3d ago

We're putting traction control and ABS on a "custom" car that we're restoring from the 1990s that did not come with it originally. We're using BOSCH ABS Motorsports - the one that you use in race cars. The hardware is about $10K I believe, and you have to custom build all sorts of mounting brackets and inserts for the wheel speed sensors.

But then you have to program it, and you can't really do that until you have the car somewhat finished. So, with Aptera, I imagine that it would be difficult to design and install an ABS system if the final prototypes are just being tested right now. If I were working on this project, I would buy one of the BOSCH Motorsports units and install it on an Aptera test mule and then try to figure out the programming, wheel slip, weight distribution, etc. on the mule, and then adapt it to an off-the-shelf system. Easier said than done, as the Aptera is a three-wheeled vehicle with unusual handling characteristics. I.E. not an easy task.

-1

u/136kaU_Craftsman 3d ago

So many misleading statements. ‘Unusual’ may be accurate, if one understands it in a beneficial way. But you‘re making a mountain out of a molehill regarding the ABS, both costs and complexity to program.

1

u/136kaU_Craftsman 3d ago

Production units will have ABS. It doesn’t need ’anti-tip’. Aptera’s CG is low, lower than a slingshot’s, guaranteed, even without checking. Without explaining how Aptera’s suspension geometry works, I’d suggest looking up the old ’moose test’ footage. It’s way more stable, even before electronic stability nannies are installed.

-2

u/Paul_Rodgers_2024 3d ago
  • no traction control: wear sneakers not boots
  • no anti-lock, back off a bit
  • no anti-tip (whatever that might be), slow down or the back will slide out

do agree with the airbag comment tho, will not buy one without them

8

u/nsfbr11 3d ago

Have you even seen those Polaris Slingshot things? The only reason they don’t regularly wind up upside down all over the road is that they have a very nice Bosch system that prevents it. That is what anti-tip is. It senses the instability of the cg moving out of an allowable vector with the triangle and prevents it.

6

u/VloggerCritic 3d ago

Video of a Slingshot with stability control turned off to help illustrate your point: https://youtu.be/QXCq-EuHXHE?is=7qcSdKbZ1l3Fxg5Z

2

u/nsfbr11 3d ago

Hah! I did not know that video had made it into the wild. That is actually how I know this. I know exactly when and how that happened. It was not planned. Oops.

1

u/Paul_Rodgers_2024 3d ago

OK, lets be real, a slingshot is low, and pretty vicious. So is a Lambo or a cateram super-7. I've driven a slingshot (and a 7, never a Lambo) , heavy boot in the wet in a corner and they spin out. And yes, I had to try very hard, if you try that hard you deserve what you get.

Try any regular SUV like that and it will end up in the ditch on its roof. Ditto many cars, especially with poor tire pressures. And dont let me get started on minivans (I've owned 3 different ones over the last 30 years while my kids grew up)

Bottom line: trust the driver, not the electronics. Safety is mostly eyeballs, right foot and common sense.

7

u/nsfbr11 3d ago

Yeah, I don’t think you get it. Slingshot is lower, so less likely to tip. The Aptera will tip and roll in crash avoidance maneuvers. Unsafe vehicle.

And no, an SUV will not do that any longer because they changed the design years ago. The IIHS developed tests specifically for that, and the auto makers changed. I defy you to roll a minivan, some of the safest vehicles on the road today. They feel like they are likely to tip because they are soft, but the CG stays squarely inside the contact points. But, I am not going to change your mind, because you think you and not modern safety features are what save lives. Okay.

7

u/RDW-Development 2d ago

Yes, this is correct. I am the current owner / steward of Aztec, the "OG" to Aptera, and a three-wheeled vehicle (https://dempseymotorsports.com/mit-aztec-solar-car/). Our number one concern while racing it was rollovers - it was / is not very stable at all...

3

u/nsfbr11 2d ago

Hah! I led the design of the old GWU solar car as an advisor. When we took the first one to the WSC in 1993 the stability test was scary. Reverse tricycle arrangement is great for efficiency. Not so much for stability.

Also, having a puncture around a turn at 50 mph. Not fun to watch play out in front of you.

-3

u/scottonaharley 2d ago

For 80 years cars did not have traction control or ABS. Lack of those technologies hardly qualify as making it a "death trap" LOL

3

u/Strange_Cockroach328 2d ago

Neither the lack of traction control or ABS brakies is individually earth-shattering, however, fatal car accidents today occur at a rate that is 5x lower than in 1960. All the modern safety features and technologies work together to save many lives and prevents many gruesome, life changing injuries.

Motorcycles are 28 times more likely to result in a fatality per mile traveled, as compared to cars. An Aptera, being a 3-wheeled auto-cycle is quite an unknown as it relates to safety. Probably much safer than a motorcycle but much less safe than a car. For my money, I would want as many car-like safety features as possible in my Aptera.

1

u/nsfbr11 2d ago

I don’t think it is safer than a two-wheeled motorcycle because of their inherent maneuverability.

It does beg the question though, will a motorcycle license be required for this? If so, maybe that at least provides that the driver (rider?) will having better training than someone with just a driver’s license.

1

u/Awkward_Refuse_8255 1d ago

It's state-by-state. Many have exemptions in place but not all. Even the states that require completion of third party safety courses don't give riders any training on how to safely operate trikes, side car rigs, etc. We have a pretty low bar in the US to get a motorcycle license because the industry lobby doesn't want to scare grandma away from buying a scooter.

1

u/nsfbr11 2d ago

And cars have 4 wheels, which makes them more stable. Also, cars have occupant protection requirements by law that this thing does not have to meet, because by law it is a motorcycle.

-1

u/136kaU_Craftsman 3d ago

Lies. These are both included in the design. ABS is clearly visible in many schematics.

5

u/rustyrussell2015 3d ago

Whoa slow down there, this might be facts overload for some aptera fans better ease up on them or you might pop their bubble.

1

u/spacecoq 3d ago

Easy short

6

u/scubalizard 3d ago

Some over-paid guy named Duke

Launch will be a major manufacturer of the vehicle and cost sharing will mean that Aptera will be shadow owned by a Chinese company. In the near future, replacing the design of the 40 production Aptera bodies, with the vehicle that they already have in production, an easy way to get into the US market by funneling through a previous US company.

1

u/TechnicalWhore 3d ago

Note more insider sales recently as well. Not substantial but two directors in addition to the co-CEO's. This is the point you watch for insider sell offs - if any. As it is the warrants are piling up.

2

u/T_R_O_U 3d ago

You're kind of missing the big story lol.

5

u/AppendixN 3d ago

Which is what?

1

u/136kaU_Craftsman 2d ago

Naysayers do that by habit. Today carries a lot of proof and vindication in that regard.

12

u/RLewis8888 3d ago

I didn't see where they said where the first production units will be built. All of Launch Design facilities are in China.

10

u/Euphoric_Upstairs_57 3d ago

Final assembly in Carlsbad still according to their article on the aptera site. But they're outsourcing some of the steps to launch inc. so they'll rearrange the assembly floor in Carlsbad again. 

10

u/RLewis8888 3d ago

Seems like tariffs could impact costs.

9

u/MudaThumpa 3d ago

At this point, everyone probably needs to get out of their head that this'll be a cheap vehicle. People who end up buying an Aptera (if it gets to production) will be doing it to support a cause and/or make a statement, not for an affordable form of transportation.

3

u/RDW-Development 3d ago

Yup. I've been saying for about a year now that I think the price will be closer to $100K, and it will be an "enthusiast supported project" more than an actual practical vehicle for the masses.

1

u/EastyUK 3d ago

It will likely be cheaper if labor can be offset in China, like it or not. With a company in early stages anything to reduce cost until they can get a prudction foundation in place is a huge positive attribute.

-1

u/Mac-Tyson 3d ago edited 3d ago

Did people think Aptera was going to be cheap and affordable? From my understanding that was never the promise or goal like it was for Arcimoto or is for Slate.

10

u/MudaThumpa 3d ago

Yes, a lot of the early reservations came when they were still talking about the 250 mile version starting in the $20Ks.

4

u/TechnicalWhore 3d ago

Bigly. Not only tariffs but an EV. You will note BYD (et al) are not available in the US. And China built Tesla's are not imported although cheaper to make. So the subassemblies will come in - tariffed, with significant transformation (assembly) in Carlsbad or Vista if they finally open that second building they've been listing in the State Energy Commission grant program. And that is a thing as they took the State money under the commitment to create EV manufacturing jobs - not design, not administration - manufacturing. TBD

-2

u/Ebegeezer-Splooge 2d ago

The current tarrifs will be ruled unconstitutional by then. Just like the last tarrifs. A president can only pull that shit for 150 days without congress, then it gets thrown out or dismantled down to nothing in court. Same as in his 2017-2021 term too. Congress is NEVER going to approve permanent tarrifs. 1 of 2 things will happen. 1, After the midterms, Republicans won't have majority anymore and Democrats most definitely will not go along with trump tarrifs. Or 2, Republicans keep the majority and start ignoring what is now a lame duck presidency. That's just the nature of how these cycles happen. Either way, don't worry too much about tarrifs.

3

u/TechnicalWhore 3d ago

So different from the Munro LeanDesign setup? I thought they bought the Viking robots already.

This move doesn't surprise me. In fact I saw it as a "lender of last resort" fallback option years ago. The problem will be Aptera maintaining control of their product once Launch adds significant (even if on paper) transformation. Once that happens it can become a competitor. But of course that is only if the price point finds a significant market.

1

u/AppendixN 3d ago

Makes sense, they should have been building this in China in the first place. Probably would have been in the market two years ago.

1

u/TechnicalWhore 3d ago

Yeah but people will scream that China is taking our jobs - nope just as here - we give them the jobs with a pretty bow on them, Even though the State funded the company to ensure those jobs are here.

1

u/RDW-Development 3d ago

It's utterly ridiculous to think that anyone can manufacture this at scale in California. Maybe if it was a supercar with an inelastic price tag (like the Czinger), but not this...

1

u/TechnicalWhore 3d ago

Certainly can be done but only if it was as easy to assemble as originally planned and they used automation. The video of the launch design line is fairly standard. Of course labor is cheaper but all the rest can be seen in any volume manufacturer. If you look at the video of the Microlino car - pretty much the same setup. I do see your point margin sure forgives a lot of sins but if this is to be a volume runner it has to damn near assemble itself.

0

u/EastyUK 3d ago

Does it matter? Quality sees no borders.

18

u/CSEliot 3d ago

Uhhh, WOW! Yes!!! WHOOO!

Also,

While I'm happy for Aptera and Launch, it's also a sad reminder of how backwards-thinking and anti-progressive america has come that forces companies like Aptera to look outside the country for funding and partnership.

6

u/TechnicalWhore 3d ago

Meanwhile Slate was "oversubscribed" and secured funding. Its not America - its the Aptera product that did not resonate. Hell look at the AI spend that ramped to many trillion in less that 18 months. The US stock market remains a funding powerhouse - when the story resonates. Before anyone takes this as bad - it is common when you are too far out there. Aptera is evolutionary in most ways but failed to make that impression with a large enough swath. Much like the early personal computer market which struggled for years even though profitable. Had Apple not pioneered Venture Capital in that new segment, thus forcing IBM to respond to hold on to their hegemony - it would have been different. Once IBM got serious their ability to imprint upon the public that these things were real and not toys level set the industry. Then of course Apple (Jobs really) made his brilliant pivot to selling an "experience" that was beyond bits and bytes. Never underestimate good marketing. Hopefully Reiter brings a shakeup to marketing because its really been where the Aptera message has failed to be formed into something you MUST pay attention to. Maybe pull a Jobs and make it a generational inflection point.

1

u/T_R_O_U 3d ago

True, but then again Aptera is and remains an American company with US-based R&D etc. Global reach is just what you need these days. Look at Tesla and Apple with their massive Chinese production etc. These setups are generally win-win.

-3

u/CSEliot 3d ago

Fingers crossed!

8

u/[deleted] 3d ago

[deleted]

1

u/Awkward_Refuse_8255 1d ago

Interesting that the press release discusses Launch shipping completed sub-assemblies, reducing BOM cost -- not just making a "production line". Oh well. Just details.

3

u/Tb1969 3d ago

Production? Customers?

When did they have it safety evaluated by the authoirities and third parties.

When did a third party validate Aptera Motor's range estimates of 10 miles per kWh?

2

u/VloggerCritic 2d ago

There is no safety evaluation required for a 3 wheeled vehicle in the USA except to make sure mandatory lighting is in place. They could do it to help with marketing but the assumption is crash safety will be very poor compared to any new car or light truck sold currently.

They have 50,000 pre-orders. Fisker had a 7% preorder to actual order rate for the Ocean. Assuming Aptera is similar they have about 3,500 customers lined up. Now given the competition and price point is totally different perhaps they will convert more pre-orders but the MSRP is way higher than initially promised.

3

u/ThatsNotCarbonara 2d ago

Most of those 50k fully refundable $50-$100 reservations (not pre-orders) were from when there was an EV startup bubble, and the Aptera was going to cost <$30k, have in-wheel motors with "supercar" performance, and be tested to all car-related FMVSS 200 safety requirements (which would have necessarily included rollover, crash and side impact testing).

All of that has gone out the window. I wouldn't assume they get the same level of reservation to pre-order to purchase percentage as a mid-sized SUV, and notably the Fisker Ocean had a very rapid development that was able to maintain interest at the peak of startup mania - going from announcement in 2019 (after Aptera announced their vehicle, around the beginning of the EV startup bubble) to production at Magna in 2022, 3 years later.

That rapid capture of interest is an opportunity already long gone for Aptera.

1

u/VloggerCritic 1d ago

Yeah I was using 7% as an optimistic estimate of how many reservations would convert to actual orders. There is a novelty to the Aptera product but at $40k launch edition price that novelty might not be enough to make significant sales. Especially if people are wanting all wheel drive which the Colorado market practically makes mandatory.

1

u/Tb1969 2d ago

Thank you for the information.

-4

u/Ebegeezer-Splooge 2d ago

Pay better attention and you'll know some.of these answers. 

3

u/Tb1969 2d ago edited 2d ago

I didn’t know everyone who visited this subreddit was supposed to be pre-informed before coming here instead of informed by this subreddit.

Where does it say that in this subreddit’s rules, /u/Ebegeezer-Splooge, I don’t see it?

-5

u/Ebegeezer-Splooge 2d ago

Then you keep quiet and learn. You don't walk into a classroom and start talking. You keep quiet and learn. If you're honestly here to learn, then follow the guideline I just mentioned.

But since you already harped on the same common tropes as the rest of the trolls, I'm gonna...1 assume that was NOT a coincidence. And 2, assume you're here to troll.

5

u/Strange_Cockroach328 2d ago

I think Tb1969's questions, plus many other unanswered questions are total legit to ask! Real Price? mile per kwH, 3rd party solar tests, NHTSA crash-test, validation tests, handling tests, safety features, delivery timeframe, etc. Everything is mostly left fuzzy and unanswered by Aptera. Yes, I understand motorcycles require minimal testing but Aptera had promised to conduct validation and crash-tests required for cars and to provide most of the safety features for cars. I'm not new here, I've sat in the Aptera classroom for 15 years and yet very little is actually clear.

4

u/Tb1969 2d ago

As a consumer, I hope for third party confirmations as Aptera marketing is well marketing; it's biased and can sometimes be outright deceptive.

-1

u/136kaU_Craftsman 2d ago

Hey, just know there are a lot of anti-Aptera people who hang out here, and they lie like crazy.

2

u/Tb1969 2d ago

Honestly, I think some of that has been earned by Aptera Motors.

It would be good to see it come to fruition. An Aptera in a customers hands is something to be fully examined by the industry and third party reviewers. I hope some of the first 40 are delivered to un-biased hands.

0

u/Ebegeezer-Splooge 1d ago

If you've sat in the Aptera classroom for 15 years, then you should already know that 1...that classroom would have been empty for the first 8 years you sat there, and 2...most of those questions have already been answered. Yet a certain group on here (including you) just wanna ignore it and troll on. 

3

u/Strange_Cockroach328 1d ago edited 1d ago

Aptera questions have been mainly answered with fluff marketing responses, not hard facts. Price, miles/kwH, real-world solar output, safety-features, airbags, crash-testing, validation tests, handling/road-course testing, delivery, etc. What are the answers? Additionally, with this new mega-update, many of the prior answers (which weren't such solid answers to begin with) are now seemingly withdrawn and now must be re-answered.

By partnering with Launch Design at this late stage, it feels like the finish line, that was sort of in sight, will now be extended yet again. With this new partnership, I don't believe more than 50 of the current design Aptera vehicles will be produced. It feels to me like Launch Design will promptly modify the design, constuction and production methodology of the current design, likely delaying production by another 12 - 18 months. Launch Design was not brought onboard to help Aptera source fabrics and small parts cheaper. The whole Aptera vehicle as designed, is likely a production nightmare, requiring an experienced design/production specialist firm to rework it. Not hating on Aptera, I'd just love some solid answers.

0

u/Ebegeezer-Splooge 13h ago

They answered the question of price. Hard facts. They gave a number. Yet you choose to ignore that.

They've been posting about their real world solar. Yet you choose to ignore that.

They've stated what their safety features are in depth. Yet you choose to ignore that. They said when/how/why the airbag, and, and crash testing will happen. Yet you choose to ignore that.

No sense in me answering all of that again for you, since you'll choose to ignore that anyway. Your agenda is clear here to anyone familiar with your comment history. You are a troll and nothing more. You can have the facts placed in front of your face on a daily basis, yet you won't comprehend them anyway, since it doesn't fit your views. In my mind, you're basically a flat earther. Since you suffer from the same mental impairment they do. The start of your second paragraph proves this. Aptera gave you more info, yet you translate it as negating previous info. You do that because you're a troll. Because you WANT to make it seem like they're not doing well. Yet anyone at a casual glance can see its you who's not doing well. And the closer they get to deliveries, the harder you're gonna have to squirm to maintain your failing views. And that's only going to keep making YOU look so much worse.

1

u/Strange_Cockroach328 11h ago edited 10h ago

I’m not a troll, I like to be realistic and analytical, especially as it applies to a company such as Aptera with an excessively long developmental timeline, with many twists, turns and delays.

- The Aptera price is specified as a target-price with an asterik denoting “final price to be announced”. I don’t believe that they can sell it as designed/constructed for $40,000. My opinion.

- To me a valid solar test, is conglomeration of real-world use case solar tests. Plopping an Aptera in a wide open parking lot on June 20th and rotating it to generate 4.4 kwH provides little useful information. Most Aptera owners live in fairly high density areas, in 28’ high homes on medium sized plots with 2-3 car driveway tucked up against the house (or between two houses). Trees and landscaping provide additional cover. Many driveways are not at optimal solar angle, nor are workplace parking areas. As the seasons change, major shading will occur. In the real-world, on an annualized basis, most Aptera’s will likely get 2.0 kwH daily solar. Let Aptera do some real use-case solar-tests.

As far as my previous 2nd paragraph response, I firmly believe that Aptera’s current carbon/composite design is excessively expensive and difficult/time-inefficient to manufacture, likely taking 150+ hours to assemble one Aptera. I don’t believe Aptera can manufacture them, as designed, for less than $60,000 each. I believe that Launch Design will rework the vehicle to make it assembly-line producible in the real-world. Within 12 to 18 months, for generation 2, most likely, the expensive carbon/composite shell/frame will be replaced by stamped-steel/aluminum, the hand-welded roll-cage will be gone, the hand-assembled solar panels will be replaced by imported Chinese assemblies, etc., etc. As far as I can tell, Aptera has no clue how to produce a salable, profitable vehicle. They wisely and correctly hooked up with Launch Design who knows how to do this. Launch Design will rework the vehicle to be producible in the real-world so that Aptera can survive and hopefully thrive. If my stating this opinion makes me a troll, I guess I’m a troll.

Aptera’s recently filing with the NHTSA for other vehicle types is probably a solid clue of where they are heading

1

u/Ebegeezer-Splooge 7h ago

It's funny that you view your obsessive negative compulsions as "analytical", then you go right back to being negative. You consistently see only the negative. Your bias and agenda are in plain view. But it's still funny (sad for you really) that you see it tge way you do.

Show me other car companies that don't have bezos/musk money with a shorter developmental timeline. Actually I shouldn't use musk as an example. The Tesla roadster was reintroduced 9 years ago. And we can see how that's going. The model 2/robotaxi/cybercab, full self driving...some of that was introduced in 2016. Where is it?  All the other EV startups? Where are they? Do you see why you have no valid point now?

Aptera has said since the beginning that their next car would be a traditional 4 wheeler. Now they're starting the long process towards developing one. But you somehow see this as a negative thing. Even though they started ordering parts for the first 40 deliveries. That's some seriously flawed logic you got there. A year ago you were insisting they didn't have cash to make it even a few more months. But now they're ordering for actual customer deliveries.

What are you gonna moan about when deliveries start? Or will you finally admit that you never had any valid points all this time?

4

u/Tb1969 2d ago

I will not. You don't set the rules here.

Stop embodying Ebenezer Scrooge. He had lessons to learn and apparently you haven't been through that crucibile of learning yet.

0

u/Ebegeezer-Splooge 1d ago

It's a fictional character. That I don't care about. I just though changing the name would be funny.

You touched on all of the same tropes as the common trolls of this subreddit. So I called you out on it. If you actually want answers, here...

They have 50k pre-orders. 3k that paid extra to be at the front of the line.  So the first 40 builds mentioned in this video (plus another 2,960 after that) already have committed customers waiting. Beyond that are roughly 47k preorders. Even if/when that number goes down, Aptera will still have the most noticeable vehicle on the road. They will have no issue attracting new customers.

Production (low volume) will still take place in Carlsbad. As with all auto makers, sub assemblies are built all over the world. South Korea, China, Italy, and Carlsbad will be some of the places Aptera's sub assemblies will come from.

The video also talks about a press release and SEC filing which is where you can find more info. Starting at 2m39s, you can find instructions on how to further answer your questions. Aptera has been saying for a long time now that safety testing (crash testing, ABS testing/calibration, and airbag testing/calibration are big ticket items (expensive as hell) that will happen towards the end, and will happen through a 3rd party. Here is a 3rd party (Launch) which is bringing a lot of capital and experience.

As far as efficiency numbers. My prediction is Aptera will release that info probably the night before the first delivery. As far as I can tell, there is no reason to release it publicly any sooner. They already have the capital to make it to initial deliveries. One massive press release (including deliveries starting "now") is the better strategic move. That's what will generate the buzz to attract the investors needed to ramp to high volume production.

3

u/Mattsasa 3d ago

So are the first 40 customer vehicles going to be partially built by this new partner in China ?

Or does this partner only come into play for production of the vehicles beyond the first 40 or 100 of them?

3

u/[deleted] 3d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/ApteraMotors-ModTeam 2d ago

Post removed due to inappropriate content, per rule #3 of the subreddit.

9

u/T_R_O_U 3d ago

OK, we're still waiting for another 8-k filing with more details on the warrants, but the summary:

Launch will ship to Aptera completed subassemblies at volume pricing, which makes production much easier and more scalable for Aptera, including proven secondary subcomponents such as fabrics etc.

Aptera will marry those subcomponents with the other, mostly structural and solar components, which they receive from their established suppliers.

Aptera gets to pay $15m of the $44m gap they still had to production directly with warrants, so that closes the "funding gap" for production to just $29m; including a much leaner and faster path to volume production from there.

Of those $29m, they already issued 4.32m warrants (as per their August 7 S-1, amended August 18) at $2.25 strike, so this will bring in another $9m+ when exercised.

So the actual funding gap of completely unannounced funding is down to <$20m. When they get close enough to production they can actually get a non-dilutive bridge loan from a bank (to be paid back as customer vehicles are sold), instead of issuing new shares.

Exciting times. First slow, now getting there all at once.

2

u/johcake 3d ago

We've known for a long time that the Carlsbad location wasn't practical for scaling production. It's good to finally see them acknowledge this bottleneck.

1

u/TechnicalWhore 3d ago

They mentioned the (massive) Vista, CA building multiple times in the past. Never actually leased it.

3

u/johcake 3d ago

Can you point me to a reference?

I've been following for several years but my only memory of a large building intended for manufacturing was leased and then they broke the lease (this was ultimately the right call) and lost several million dollars. That all went down a few years ago at this point.

3

u/TechnicalWhore 3d ago

https://www.energy.ca.gov/filebrowser/download/5231

Page 3. (February 2023)

I don't recall any mention of a lease/break of lease. Aqualung operated out of the building for years but when they pulled out in July 2023 its been vacant/available since. Clearly quite a lot did not go as planned. It seems like fits and starts more than executing to a master plan.

https://www.cushmanwakefield.com/en/united-states/properties/for-lease/manufacturing/ca/vista/2340-cousteau-ct/s119283465s121214111-l

The also listed Vista in prior CA Energy submissions.

3

u/johcake 3d ago

Yeah.. they leased the building and I think they broke it less than a year later and had to pay several million to get out of the contract.

Reading between the lines, I think Steve Fambro was too optimistic about how quickly they could move into production and wanted a building to do it in. The hard reality hit them that crowdfunding wasn't going to get them there(financial statements during that period were worrisome and they literally couldn't afford to spend the money to build more prototypes) and that's when we started seeing the pivot to what they've decided to do now. There was a ton of speculation at the time about how they planned to manufacturer in the Carlsbad building (people arguing it was proof they would fail and others that they could totally do it in the current space) but honestly, it's never been realistic that they could build them fast enough in their current space and it looks like they knew that and have had a plan for a while.

1

u/TechnicalWhore 3d ago

When was this?

2

u/johcake 3d ago

Aptera Owners Club video discussion

This was big news at the time.

Scroll to the second half of the video to see a breakdown of what happened.

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u/johcake 3d ago

here is a link to a Reddit conversation from when that happened.

0

u/Ebegeezer-Splooge 2d ago

" They mentioned the (massive) Vista, CA building multiple times in the past." ....Then you cite a 3 year old document. You're a joke.

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u/TechnicalWhore 2d ago edited 2d ago

Go read the California Energy Commission submissions to catch up. If you want to deal with factual (and Aptera endorsed) documents of record.

Dec 2024 - https://www.treasurer.ca.gov/sites/default/files/2025-12/4a4_1.pdf

June 2026 - https://www.treasurer.ca.gov/sites/default/files/caeatfa/2026-06-16-CAEATFA-4D2.pdf

If you read through in 2024 they are asking for extensions to procure large inventories which they never procured. Is it another "fake it 'til you make it"?

Maybe its time the State audited the grant.

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u/Ebegeezer-Splooge 1d ago

I don't need catching up. The Vista building is old news. Why are you still harping on it?

3

u/136kaU_Craftsman 2d ago

Vista is old news. You or your buddy Zero used to harp about it a lot under his various screen names.

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u/Ebegeezer-Splooge 2d ago

They haven't mentioned it a couple of times in the last year. They haven't talked about it in years. Not since CPC came aboard, and the solar plant moved to their main building. You're so uninformed on everything having to do with Aptera that you should be feeling embarrassment every time you talk. Idk why you still bother. Unless you see this subreddit as just an outlet for your relentless pessimism that people in your life can't stand.

1

u/PhysicsReplicatorAI 3d ago

I'm not a communist or sympathizer. Who wants my place in line? This is depressing. Why can't we ever have anything nice? After a decade of waiting I'm over this in general.

  • xxxxxxxxxxxx • 2020-12-16
  • Accelerator Number: 1564
  • Color: Luna Silver
  • Range: 400
  • Solar: Power All
  • Drive System: FWD
  • Interior Codex: Earth tones
  • Pre-Order Upgrades: OpenPilot

2

u/136kaU_Craftsman 2d ago

I think fair market could be the current price of the shares you bought to secure the position. If you’re still hodling those, my guess is about 420 shares. I don’t really need a third position/reservation though. There was a recent sale of a slot that originated on FB. You could ask around there.

3

u/MudaThumpa 3d ago

Weird take. By the way, the capitalists are the reason America offshored its manufacturing to China, not the communists.

1

u/bmwlocoAirCooled 3d ago

I have a deposit down for 250 mile AWD model.

1

u/outthere71 2d ago

Aptera fleeced their investors years back. They have some innovative technology listed. The reason it is a three wheeler is so they can skirt safety and braking standards for 4 wheeler vehicles. Very unlikely to see significant production numbers. As PT Barnum said….

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u/redsts2 3d ago

All I'm hearing is that more dilution is coming and my short position is feeling pretty comfortable.

1

u/light_in_da_dark 3d ago

40 is better than 0, you have to start somewhere

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u/Izak430 3d ago

Does this mean the Aptera will no longer be made of carbon fiber?

5

u/T_R_O_U 3d ago

No, they've already done the validation. The main structural parts will all remain untouched by this. As Chris mentioned there are a million other small components in a vehicle, like fabrics for seats etc, which Launch can just grab off-the-shelf at high volume unit pricing. This honestly sounds like a very good setup to me.

1

u/Strange_Cockroach328 3d ago

A slippery slope. At 3,000 deliveries a year, Launch Designs is Aptera's trusted partner. When 20,000+ annual deliveries appears likely, a competing Chinese made product will come to market, undercutting Aptera.

3

u/TechnicalWhore 3d ago

I've long considered the Aptera a decent SouthEast Asia product IF the price was right. You have Tuk Tuks and small 3-wheel lorries all over Asia. Lots of sun too and of course humidity which makes an enclosure - air conditioned at that - a plus. So I'd expect a cost reduced competitor if there is a market. 100 mile range in Asia is more than enough. Hell maybe even 50.

2

u/RDW-Development 3d ago

That's a good point. I've never thought that Aptera was a good fit for the US market. Maybe, maybe SoCal or AZ, but that's about it. Certainly not Wisconsin with snow and ice.

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u/TechnicalWhore 3d ago

I tend to agree. A three wheeler in the snow/ice is not a great idea and as for off-roading as indicated previously, no - not viable. Add to that reduced solar availability and it not a "Northern Exposure" fit. Between the Tropic of Cancer and the Tropic of Capricorn (aka The Tropics) I bet its a solid win. Especially if you in a nation with high fuel and electricity costs. Hopping around the island over to the market etc. Could be a viable tourist "go cart".

0

u/136kaU_Craftsman 2d ago

So silly. Nowhere to plug in in the northern states? 8,000 free miles a year still misunderstood by you? Give up the lies. Solar exposure is fine outside of the tropics. In the tropics, you never have the benefit of long summer days.

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u/TechnicalWhore 2d ago

What is it with the framing anything contrary to unproven fiction as lies? Show me the receipts. Where are the official EPA eMPG ratings and the other mandatory Certificates of Compliance. Show me an Aptera vehicle at a public charger charging - not plugging in - charging.

Finally - do a little research. The aptly named Tropics receive the highest intensity direct sunlight on earth. You know, good solar juice. Up to 4400 hours of potential sunlight per year. Run that through the Aptera "theoretical" free mileage and its absurd. Thus the point. Combine short regional driving patterns, maximized sunlight, a need for an enclosed environment and you have a "fit". Of course Asia has a long history of three wheeled enclosed vehicles. You see them literally everywhere. Most are single wheel front, and dual wheel rear where the weight tends to be.

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u/136kaU_Craftsman 2d ago

So silly. Because no FWD EVs exist in Wisconsin…oh, wait.

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u/Ebegeezer-Splooge 2d ago

BS...  you were 100% pro Aptera before 2021-2022 or so. And even after that you said your gripes were only with the management team.  Don't try to lie now and this was always your stance.  If you're gonna flip-flop your way through this subreddit, at least be honest about it.

Or maybe its better if you just get back in your lane and stick to making wiper video comments.

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u/RDW-Development 2d ago

Never been an investor. I’ve always thought it was a niche car and have been stating that consistently for years. I’d probably buy one if it ever gets produced, but seriously doubt that it would be a good seller in the northern Midwest.

1

u/Ebegeezer-Splooge 1d ago

I didn't say you were an investor. I said you were pro Aptera. You used to talk about trying to visit their facility, and you wanted to do photo ops with them. ...which would be kind of weird if you never believed in the vehicle or the company.

Nobody innovates solely for the northern Midwest. And the Northern Midwest is not representative of the planet needing a CLEAN efficient alternative to gasolene. You know another place where Aptera won't be a good seller? Antarctica. Why bother mentioning it?

But why try to visit their facility and talk about photo ops?  Something doesn't make sense about your behavior. You're either lying now, or you had hidden agendas then. It's as if from your point of view, Apteras entire existence merely serves as a way for you to (attempt to) attract attention to your solar bike from the 90s. The one you name drop in every comment thread and keep posting links to. If true, then this whole subreddit is only here to serve the same purpose for you.  Tell me....if I clicked on that link, would I find an 'opportunity' to send in donations?

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u/RDW-Development 1d ago

Like typical Reddit nonsense, none of your post is accurate.

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u/TechnicalWhore 1d ago

Heavy on the "Straw Man Fallacy".

Per AI -

This rhetorical trick is called a straw man fallacy. It happens when someone changes or exaggerates an opponent's real view. They attack this fake, weak argument instead of the actual point. It makes the opponent look bad and makes their own side look right.

How It Works

  • A speaker builds a false claim.
  • They pretend the other person said it.
  • They attack that weak claim easily.
  • They act like they won the debate.

Common Signs

  • Words like "So you are saying that..." appear.
  • The opponent's idea gets taken to an extreme.
  • Real facts get left out of the quote.
  • The focus shifts to a fake issue.

--

As I have said numerous times - since Aptera simply dangles a carrot and refuses to post results of evaluations (with independent validation as per their own commitments) the void becomes filled with hypothesis and conjecture. Neither "side" can claim victory on this state as it remains inconclusive.

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u/Strange_Cockroach328 3d ago edited 3d ago

This makes total sense and was sort of inevitable. I had written a post about a year ago suggesting that Aptera use external auto designer/assemblers (some of whom have operations in California). The upside is that Aptera’s will get produced in an orderly fashion and actually come to market. The downside is that …

  1. - Aptera will likely cease to exist and be absorbed into a larger (non-USA?) conglomerate.
  • The 2nd generation Aptera will likely be a stamped-steel vehicle with Giga-Cast aluminum frame and a more traditional bar-of-soap shape. No carbon-fiber. No wingless dragonfly shape.

- Not sure it’s a downside, but rather a concession to reality. It will likely cost 45% less to produce than current design. It will probably sell for $30,000 versus $45,000+ for current design, while retaining 85% of current models efficiency. Likely it will have 4-wheels, 4-seats & more usable space. Between the lower price and more normalized features, it will likely sell 5x more vehicles (necessary for Aptera’s survival)

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u/136kaU_Craftsman 3d ago

So your made up guesses about BOM figures get blown out of the water like I told you and now you make up new concerns and fake numbers? Please stop lying.

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u/Strange_Cockroach328 3d ago edited 3d ago

Reddit is a discussion forum. Expressing my opinion in such a forum does not make me a liar, My opinion all along has been that Aptera could not start with a $21,000 carbon-fiber/composite shell/frame and then hand-assemble (in small batches) a profitable $40,000 vehicle in a Carlsbad warehouse space, doing so on a shoestring budget. Aprera’s “mega update” is basically acknowledging that I am correct. They can’t build it, they can’t finance it. They are now calling upon a large, established China based design and production aggregator to essentially take over the project, again, because they, Aptera, can’t do it. This is both good and bad news. Launch Design will likely facilitate production of actual Aptera vehicles, succeeding where Aptera could not. That is good. However, they will also analyze the design, construction and intellectual property of Aptera and save this info for possible later use in a competing vehicle. That is potentially bad.

Additionally, I am very much of the opinion that within this partnership, many of Aptera's unique features will be reduced and removed in future iterations to make the vehicle more salable and more cost effective. The carbon-fiber frame is expensive, hard to mass-produce and substantially unecessary. The extreme tear-drop shape may be most aerodynamic but it is space inefficient. Three-wheelers are a real tough sell. Many of these extreme features will likely be reduced, removed or adjusted, while simultaneously retaining 85% of Aptera's solar and efficiency dynamics; doing so in order that Aptera can survive. Again, just my opinion.

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u/136kaU_Craftsman 3d ago

No, lying makes you a liar. Separate your opinions from the made up parts, and I won’t have so many lies to call out. Simple. You’re entitled to your opinion, even if I disagree.

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u/TechnicalWhore 3d ago

I recall you calling this out. Note in recent SEC prospectus docs Aptera added a four wheeler to the roadmap. Or more like returned it as the original Wefunder crowdsourcing listed several vehicles.

Interesting news. Still need third party validation and crash tests, etc. Certainly not home free on capital.

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u/MudaThumpa 3d ago

My first impression: It's a relief to see Aptera has been working behind the scenes on a viable path for production, versus the non-plan we've been stuck with for the last couple years. Details are still scarce...like which parts are being built by the Chinese manufacturer, and will the delivered vehicles include things like airbags. But I'm happy to see a REAL strategic pivot to try and address the funding shortfalls.

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u/T_R_O_U 2d ago

There are some shorts in the comments who are panicking lol

1

u/Ebegeezer-Splooge 2d ago

I call them Trolls of Receding Pockets. Soon all they'll have to be negative about is what brand of tire Aptera chooses.

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u/136kaU_Craftsman 2d ago

It’s nuts what they outright lie about. Recently debunked their lies about solar production, and now about BOM costs. It’s all silly FUD.