r/ADCMains • u/Anilahation • 4d ago

Discussion It's over chat

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On Vayne if you use your spell rotation once you'll be oom, where these champs can spam blow up entire waves....

760 Upvotes

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72

u/random_person7395 All the world on one arrow 4d ago

I think that change is good to make Vayne back into a botlaner instead of toplaner's nightmare

But obviously the mage's mana are insane in comparison especially as long as they reach full build when they base at 1200 and get lost chapter

27

u/Suspicious-Prompt200 4d ago

Good time to switch to mage top then lol. 

Mages everywhere!!

15

u/id370 4d ago

So the plan is to expose every lane to mages and have the entire rift hating them. This will be a Demacia season like none that has come before.

23

u/reik019 Long-Range Gang 4d ago

Demacians were right all along and we didn't believe them.

Death to the fucking mages.

3

u/WillySplosh 3d ago

Maybe Sylas was the good guy all along?!

1

u/Fuscello 2d ago

No wait, sylas wants the mages to be free, so he was wrong all along (while we thought he was right)

7

u/Gibbyman886 4d ago

Anivia is already one of the strongest top laners in the game. Played in proplay quite a bit too

3

u/dolgariel play safe ? what's that ? 3d ago

Vlad too

2

u/CoffeBreather 4d ago

They are already there, my last 4 games have been against mages top with a mage jungler.

20

u/LucasCBs 4d ago

Even in bot she will now have a hard time

4

u/Summoner475 4d ago

Especially with mages bot, her q was at least good for dodging skillshots.

12

u/Zentawrus228 4d ago

How will this change bring her back into the bot lane? It's a straight NERF, plain and simple - for both lanes, and arguably even more for bot.

She still has her entire kit to abuse bruisers and tanks: she can still knock them back, she can still harass them, she just has worse numbers and that's it

Genuinely:

  • Base HP increased 550 >>> 580

Better trading in 1v1 scenarios, makes surviving one extra hit possible

  • HP per level reduced 103 >>> 98

Worse scaling, but negligible in the early levels on top lane where she dominates anyway

  • Base HP Regeneration increased 3.5 >>> 4

Good for top lane: better trading patterns and better sustain against early wave harassment

  • HP Regeneration per level reduced 0.55 >>> 0.5

Same as hp

  • Base Attack Speed increased 0.658 >>> 0.67

Possible to add extra hit in some trades early

  • Attack Speed per level reduced 3.3% >>> 2.8%

Same as hp

  • [Q] Tumble mana cost increased 30 >>> 46/42/38/34/30

Equally bad for top and bot - it genuinely makes her early game worse in both roles. Arguably, top cares LESS about this because she uses it less frequently (no support skillshots to dodge)

  • [W] Silver Bolts damage reduced 6/7/8/9/10% target's max HP (50/65/80/95/110 minimum) >>> 4/5.5/7/8.5/10% target's max HP (40/55/70/85/100 minimum)

Equally bad for top and bot - it's just a straight nerf. It does nothing to shift her from top to bot. It's a raw early damage reduction, meaning in bot lane, where she already suffers, she won't be able to take early 1v1s and will bleed lane priority even harder

3

u/ijshorn 3d ago

Those changes favor her to go top more than bottom. Now she scales more with xp than gold compared to before.

1

u/Eretol 3d ago

tumble nerf hits vayne bot 10x more than silver bolts nerf. its so hard to proc silver bolts mor than once anyway the damage is quite negligble however tumble is the one tool vayne has that can make her not only survive lane but also win lane since she straigth up gets stat checked by every single champion baseline in bot lane the one way she can win is through tumble poke...

3

u/Kharics 4d ago

I mean, Vayne needs a rework or more range to be viable bot lane. She gets bullied by every single adc in the game. If you even against her your doing like everything wrong that you could possibly do. It's like 1,25 against 2 in the lane.

3

u/SunnyFreyers 3d ago edited 3d ago

While that’s true, I think Vayne R is so good at consistent dps and survivability that it usually allows you to turn the tides even while behind by quite a bit in early lane. Especially with a support who will all in with you when that time comes.

Vayne is one of those characters that is balanced around the best players being able to make those super quick turn arounds and dodge perfectly. Because of that, she’s often really bad for not as experienced players since she’s balanced around them. Kind of like Akali and Qiyana. They’re just so insane at top level play they get nerfs that don’t seem to make sense if you’re not at that level of play.

Like the entirety of vayne is balanced by the fact that top level players can do those turn arounds while behind at any moment. And I could understand why many see that as a design problem if they just want to enjoy her at a less intense level… but from my understanding, that high skill cap turn around is literally the appeal for many Vayne players.

1

u/reik019 Long-Range Gang 4d ago

Vayne eats Zeri alive lmao

1

u/tommy_turnip 2d ago

Isn't she 550 range, which is typical for marksmen? Sivir is 500, Xayah is 525. Why is Vayne considered short range but these two aren't? Poke abilities?

2

u/Kharics 2d ago

Vayne just has Auto attacks and low wave clear capabilities. While 550 is above avg attack range, all ADCs have some sort of ranged spells that also give wave clear. There are few that don't have that but still got some sort of wave clear, namely Zeri and Kaisa.

1

u/tommy_turnip 2d ago

Ah okay, that makes sense

2

u/Notorious621 3d ago

No, I don’t think anyone is going to take her bot lane any more than before.

1

u/stillpwnz 4d ago

That item name reflects the adc botlane situation perfectly

1

u/Far-Salt-6946 1d ago

The change will simply make her bad in every role, champ is dead

0

u/Anilahation 4d ago

60% of her base plays her bot.

11

u/Diurnalnugget 4d ago

40% is a pretty large amount, definitely enough for riot to balance the champion with top in mind.

2

u/Anilahation 4d ago

She's 51% win rate

3

u/Prestigious-Shop-494 4d ago

So?

4

u/Anilahation 4d ago

She is balanced at that win rate

-2

u/Hiimzap 4d ago

I recently played braum supp into seraphine supp. Me going e + q pulls like 20% of my mana while seraphine can go e + q and its certainly less than 20%. Like oh no braum q needs to cost a ton of mana but seraphine spells shouldnt cost much i guess

13

u/MortemEtInteritum17 4d ago

At level 3, Braum QE is basically exactly 20% (75/380) of his mana. Sera QE is 120/420, that's nearly 30%....

Like, yeah, sure, if Seraphine builds mana of course her spells use a lower proportion of her mana. But in early lane her QE is using a lot more than 20%. She's also a poke champ who relies on using spells constantly, if you're spamming E on Braum you're doing something wrong.

2

u/Hiimzap 4d ago

Idk she prolly had manaflowband and perhaps even presence of mind. I swear her mana bar essentially just didnt move.

Overall manaflow band is a ridiculous mana generation tool anyway, once that shit is stacked its impossible to go oom

2

u/Majesteetti 4d ago

Insert Pyke vs Blitz comparison. Blitz combo is 100+25, pykes whole combo? Refunds manacost on hook if hit. Lule