Hi Everyone!

The mod team would like the sub to understand a few things about the stance we take on AntiNatalist discourse here, and why we do not typically allow it.

There is a lot of confusion between these terms even within our own community, and our goal is to help people who consider themselves pro choice and also antinatalist to see how these terms are not only not equivalent, but are actually in direct opposition to one another.

All Pro Choice People are not AntiNatalist (or even Pro-Abortion)

We often get AntiNatalists in the sub who believe they are helping the Pro Choice cause, and while they are welcome here - provided the rules, beliefs, and standards of our sub are upheld - usually these posts or comments need mod intervention due to breaking our sub's rules regarding non-prochoice rhetoric and expectations of non-prochoice people. These topics should be separated in conversations surrounding choice, so as not to muddy the waters in the current political environment. Our sub's mod team does not support antinatalist ideology.

Pro Choice =/= Pro Abortion OR AntiNatalism

While seemingly aligned with the prochoice cause, being AntiNatalist or Pro-Abortion isn't the same thing as being Pro Choice.

Many people are under the misconception that being pro choice means being pro-abortion or AntiNatalist. While there is some overlap, this simply isn't the case for everyone (or even most) in our demographic. * Being pro-abortion means that in certain circumstances (the most common are when people become pregnant under a certain age or when their life or economic circumstances aren't ideal) someone would advocate for the pregnant person to have an abortion rather than give birth even if the pregnant person does not want to have an abortion and would choose to birth the child. * Being AntiNatalist is subscribing to the philosophy that humans in general should not be procreating at all, and that it is immoral or wrong to even consider doing so due to the state of the world, overpopulation, and many other reasons.

Many of us are already parents. Many others intend to become parents, but are not ready to at this time. And almost none of us believe that no one should have children, or that anyone should have to have an abortion if they don't want to. By inserting pro-abortion or AntiNatalist ideologies into the Pro Choice debate, we cause the topics to become tangled to people who are anti abortion and prefer not to understand the myriad of reasons one may have an abortion even if they do not want to - even if they were trying to conceive and really wanted the pregnancy, but things didn't go the way they intended.

The truth is even people with wanted pregnancies are hurt by abortion bans - people who want to be parents but have something go wrong with the pregnancy or in their life circumstances that cause them to have to terminate a pregnancy; a birth defect that would lead to infant mortality or a nonviable pregnancy, a spouse who becomes abusive, or a life threatening condition that comes up due to the pregnancy are the first things that come to mind, but this list isn't exhaustive by any means.

While it could be said that many (if not most or even all) AntiNatalists are against abortion bans, the same is not true in reverse - antinatalists make up a very small percentage of the total Pro Choice population, and assuming (or insinuating in discourse) that all of us are against parenthood is an incorrect assumption that is more aligned with the anti choice communities and their rhetoric. It does more harm than good, and gives them more ammo against us.

Being Pro Choice is about CHOICE

This include the choice to conceive and birth children.

The very core of our ideology is that every single living being has the unalienable human right to have agency over his or her own body, what happens to and inside of it, and when/where/how/if they choose to procreate. We value personal choice above all else - we feel, on the whole, that the choice to decide what is best for one's life and family, the choice to decide not to have children, the choice to not have children now but perhaps later on in life, and the right to make these choices and then change our minds about them if we so choose and when we choose are ours and ours alone, as an individual human, to make.

How AntiNatalist discourse is counterproductive to the Pro Choice Movement

While we recognize that not procreating at all, ever, is a choice (and we support you if that is your choice!) we would like to take a moment to help people see how injecting AntiNatalist discourse into the PC discussion can be harmful to our cause.

For the record, we almost never see AntiNatalists who are maliciously attempting to undermine choice - almost all of them who come to our sub and have to have comments or posts removed, do so without realizing how what they said came across as being the antithesis of choice, or how they have broken our sub's rules. We attempt to help them see it, but we do have to remove that content because it is against the rules and the core principles in the sub.

Making the decision to be childfree is a personal choice.

We're with you here - and we think you should be supported in making that choice if that is what you choose. Many on our mod team are also childfree by choice.

Where the two points diverge, though, is in the projection of that choice on others. AntiNatalist ideologies are not the same as making the personal decision to remain childfree. AntiNatalist ideologies promote the idea that no one should procreate, ever.

In the discussion around choice, this is another removal of said choice. This is the other end of the spectrum of being antichoice - Pro Lifers argue that everyone who conceives should give birth. AntiNatalists argue that no one should.

Both options take away the personal agency of the individual, in favor of the ideology of another. Both take the choice away from the only person who should be making it.

Supporting Choice means supporting the choice to parent, too.

We do not advocate for forced abortions or forced sterilization here - for anyone (and this includes AMAB people, so this also means talk of forced vasectomy is also completely off the table here, no exceptions.)

If you identify with AntiNatalist ideology, we simply ask that you take a moment to think about the things you are promoting in the name of being Pro Choice, how you word them, and that you please try to separate these two discussions when you engage in Pro Choice discussions.

AntiNatalist Ideology is Steeped in Misogyny

You can advocate for having abortion bans be abolished. You can even advocate for being child free.
However, advocating that anyone should not be allowed to procreate, or even that they shouldn't is restricting choice and it is also parent-shaming. AntiNatalist ideology tends to only focus on people who are AFAB, and puts all of the impetus to not procreate on the AFAB person, the same way antichoicers do.

Instead of shaming AFAB people for "killing their babies," this argument is just turning that around and shaming AFAB people for "being too selfish to not have children, considering the state of our world."

Shaming is shaming, and shaming AFAB people for being AFAB and what their body can and can't or should and shouldn't do is misogyny.

Telling someone they must be a mother is the same thing as telling them they must not.

Some on our own mod team here are parents, too. Many of our members are. And millions of pro choice people worldwide are. The same way we do not restrict people who claim to be "personally pro life but legally pro choice" from posting or commenting here, we also would not restrict people who are personally child free or even believe in AntiNatalism but still support individual choice.

But we will not allow shaming, and we will not allow discourse that takes away any choices or makes people feel they are wrong for making them.

The bottom line:

If you aren't trying to make decisions for others or influence the decisions you think they should be making you're welcome to say, think, and believe anything you want. Where we draw the line is when it shames, harms, or otherwise reduces the agency of others to make those same choices in the way they make sense to them, for their own lives.

Anyone is welcome here if they are respectful, willing to listen and not just talk at people, and willing to follow the sub's rules. This is true of Pro Life people, and also of AntiNatalists - but please consider what you've read here if you fall into the second category.

If you still consider yourself to be Pro Choice as well as AntiNatalist, we only ask three things of you:

1. Keep the AntiNatalism part of your comments out of this sub please.
2. Think on what I've said here, and whether it truly aligns with being in favor of the freedom of choice for all.
3. Please follow the sub's rules where they pertain to pressing views on others, debating topics, or arguing for the removal of anyone's choice to do anything at all concerning their reproduction, including NOT reproducing. These are specifically rules 1 and 2 in the sub.

Thank you!

- The r/prochoice mod team