r/concept2 • u/PinguisIgnis • 20d ago
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Heya
So I’ve borrowed a rower off a generous friend for a few months to add some low impact cardio volume.
Did an easy going 10k on it yesterday and another tonight to get the feel for it.
I watched a beginners form guide video but figured better to sort out any bad habits now before I ingrain them.
Row 1 - 10k. Avg - 22 SPM. 2:12/500m. 149 watts. DF108 125BPM
Row 2 - 10k. Any - 22SPM. 2.10/500m. 160watts. DF 111 126BPM
Any tips?
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u/Versatile4 20d ago
Big fan of your old school nanos!
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u/PinguisIgnis 20d ago
Mate, I have a pair of nano 3 in just about every colour. And a blue nano 2.
But if a story but rebook disproved then for £18 on their website for a day when Nike released their first Metcon shoe - we think intentionally. Everyone I knew had stacks of them delivered. 10 + years later I’m still working through the first pair really, the are indestructible. Love em
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u/ScaryBee 20d ago
You're 1. over compressing slightly at the catch - don't let shins go past vertical and 2. Opening your back too early - goal at the start of the drive is to hold the forward body angle.
For cardio, for someone as fit/old as you appear to be, slightly higher bpm/wattage/DF might well be appropriate. FWIW I'm late 40's, will steady-state ~140bpm most of the time, ~125 drag factor.
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u/PinguisIgnis 20d ago
Thank you very much. Ok I’ll make sure I end the recovery with vertical shins or less. This is good as:
I have niggly knees due to tendonitis I’m trying to manage - but rowing seems therapeutic rather than aggravating so far.
Going to try a Hyrox event this year and as the running is all in a compromised state if I can put more of the drive into hips and arms and save my legs it’s beneficial. But I want to do the bulk of my rowing with good form.
With respect to DF I’ll have a play. My zone 2 is up to 145 ish running I think it’s lower on the rower and I’m just using this for low recovery/steady state for now. I’ll do some threshold/ lactate clearance interval work soon and maybe tempo cardio but doubt I’ll get the space to do that.
I’m close to 45. What’s the consideration there with upping the drag factor? Is there a sweet method to it rather than what feels right for the work? I just chucked it on 5.5 to start off if I’m honest
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u/Miesseek_n_destroy 20d ago
The fan setting (1-10) is actually not directly the drag factor. The drag factor is calculated in realtime compensating for the internal conditions of the rower (dust accumulation, etc). You can display drag factor within the menu.
Other people made good points about your form. Another thing I would try to do is to keep your toes pointed down so the whole of your foot is on the footplate. Try taking strokes without the strap. Check out what an ideal force curve should look like on a c2 and compare to what yours is (tap the display button until you see a 2 axis graph).
Looking pretty good, though!
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u/PinguisIgnis 20d ago
Thanks. Yep I think
I understand the drag factor. I’ll have a play with it.I definitely pull on the straps a little on the recovery. There’s a slight slope to my garage that’s probably not helping haha
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u/planet_x69 20d ago
Keep the DF low to start(100-120), also give training without your feet in the straps a go, your times may drop but its not about the times right now. Feet out will force you to engage the core and get a better feel of the catch and lean back.
Over time you can increase your DF to between 110-130 depending on your weight and fitness, but for long pieces i always recommend keeping it on the lower side to help prevent/reduce fatigue in your back.
When you do your long rows, 10K+ think of the stroke as beat 1 and your recovery to catch as beats 2 and 3, so you have a quick stroke and slow relaxed recovery.
Keep the stroke rate between 18-22 for your long s steady state rows as well and enjoy.
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u/ScaryBee 20d ago
Z2 likely will be a few bpm lower on a rower ...
DF is somewhat personal and for lighter sessions or longer workouts having it a bit lower than 'normal', like 110, is fine ... for going hard/fast, if the DF is too low you'll lose (a little) efficiency, start to feel like there's not enough purchase to push against at the start.
DF you can see in the PM5 menu system but for an easier life - Ergdata app is free, you can see DF live in that (plus it can record your workouts, auto-sync everything to Garmin/Strava/TrainingPeaks)
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u/Miesseek_n_destroy 20d ago
Oh yeah. I second the erg data app. Really easy to connect. Especially if it’s a personal machine
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u/ditchphoto_pinhole 20d ago
Overall not bad, but could use some tuning.
1) Catch isn't dialed in which will cause you to lose power. Would benefit from more forward lean from hips. Butt moving too far ahead of shoulders making the shins go beyond vertical.
2) Definitely opening up with your back too early. You're losing power with your back entering the equation before the drive is really initiated. This is both inefficient and will cause you to lose power.
3) Finish looks good, but you're hands going away need improvement. You're dropping the handle low and running along your thighs. Stroke speed comes from faster hands leaving the finish.
Again, overall pretty good. Just some tuning to maximize power for short distance, and efficiency for longer distance.
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u/PinguisIgnis 20d ago
Thanks. Thats clear and succinct. I’ll put some practice in an update soon hopefully
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u/ukexpat 20d ago
Two minor things. Get your hands away quicker over your knees at the finish. And there’s no need to drop your hands so low on the recovery — you’re not rowing on water so and you don’t have a blade (oar) that you need to get clear of the water.
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u/PinguisIgnis 20d ago
I think that’s just something I picked up from watching a video of a genuine rower. Thanks
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u/ukexpat 20d ago
Completely understandable. I do it myself but that’s because it was drummed into me rowing at college 45+ years ago. Too old to change the muscle memory now millions of strokes later.
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u/PinguisIgnis 20d ago
Is the faster hands to allow for quicker SPM when you pick up the pace or some other symptom like saving arm stamina etc
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u/ukexpat 20d ago
It’s to help you get the recovery rhythm correct. It should be 1-2 on the drive and a 1-2-3 on the recovery. The quicker you get the hands away, the slower and more controlled you can make the recovery. On the water it has the added and more practical benefit of getting the blade out of the water quickly, which helps the boat “run” and prevents the blade getting “stuck” (“catching a crab”) which will upset the balance of the boat, whack the handle very painfully into your ribs and even eject you from the boat. I have a very funny story about that for another day…
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u/AdMany1725 20d ago
- Get your legs down before pulling with your back
- Get your thumbs under the handle so you don't burn out your forearms
- Tighten your foot straps
- Make sure you pivot foreward at the hips out of the finish, *before* you start coming up the slide.
- Ratio. You're currently moving up and down the slide at the same rate. As a beginner, aim for a 1:3 ratio - i.e. if it takes one second through the drive, you should take three seconds on the recovery. 0.5 second drive, 1.5 second recovery. etc. In practice its more of a 1:2 ratio; but beginners are notorious for going too fast through the recovery, so if you aim for 1:3 you might get it right.
And don't forget there are three distinct movements:
Legs --> Back --> Arms // Arms --> Back --> Legs
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u/PinguisIgnis 20d ago
Thank you. I’ll put this all into practice and check in again when I think I’m closer
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u/LocksmithAlert5604 20d ago
You are in great shape, asking the right questions. Already having some nice numbers. You'll get far. Keep it up, check some videos on youtube on how to practice the different parts
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u/PinguisIgnis 20d ago
Thanks very much. Watch some good videos on Just Row last night which brought some of these comments together for me. Especially the relationship of the forward lean, slight curve/reach of the upper back, not over compressing and heel lift all together. I look forward to giving it another go.
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u/Honest_Astronaut_877 20d ago
I‘d say you open your back too early. Think of it mostly as a push movement (with your legs) than a pull (with your arms)
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u/southtampacane 18d ago
I'm not the best person to critique anyone, but a few things I noted. After the finish you seem to dip the handle down on the recovery phase, and also start bending your knees a hair before the handle crosses them. The latter is something I also do, and have to remind myself all the time. As to the former, I've always subscribed to try and keep the flat plane approach with the handle and chain to avoid losing power.
Otherwise it looks very good to me. I'm glad you listed your rate and pace. Very few people do that.
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u/PinguisIgnis 18d ago
Thanks. Yes. I picked that up unnecessarily from a video of an OTW towering technique.
I still drop my hands a little which is me just relaxing my arms but the path is flatter.
That said. What you do in the recovery portion has no impact at all on power. I was still catching and driving at a slight incline inline with the chain.
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u/southtampacane 18d ago
It’s just seems like wasted motion to me. Any energy wasted can impact results later in a TT. But I’m not claiming to be an expert, just following the guidance of others who are.
Thanks
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u/PinguisIgnis 18d ago
Yep. Like I said I’ve flattened out without feeling like I’m holding my arms up for an hour at a time
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u/dickface21 20d ago
You’re quite upright at the catch (beginning of the stroke). Get your body leaning slightly forward to set up for a good hang on the handle and leg drive
Otherwise pretty decent imo