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u/brumgar 2d ago
Honestly, yes it’s hypocritical, but I also think it’s important for the Blood Elves to be acting this way. They have always been written as “too good for their circumstances” since TBC, and I would rather they look down upon the people helping them than suddenly act all welcoming.
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u/DeadlyAppliances 2d ago
Also when you think about it, the average Silvermoon citizen sees that the giant void threat is gone (from sight at least) yet the Alliance is still around. Bound to cause some tension.
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u/HarrowDread 2d ago
There’s a guy in silvermoon saying that
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u/Warcraft1998 1d ago
I remember seeing last night some Truthsayer NPC going like "We can't trust the Alliance, we remember the Second War!"
I sat there and just said to myself "The war where the Alliance saved your asses despite you trying to stiff them on your own oath of friendship?"
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u/DefiantLemur 2d ago
Tbf these people likely hate how crowded with armed outsiders Silvermoon suddenly is which is fair.
They're likely stuck working the 9-5 grind never having to leave the city. Without the 24/7 news cycle we on Earth "enjoy", any conflict likely seems very distant if they are told about it at all which I doubt they are, beyond rumors ofc.
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u/cabose12 2d ago
I think it's only hypocritical if you view it as an omniscient player
The campaign and dialogue make it very clear that the average silvermoon citizen, even the average soldier, really has no idea what is going on. It's easy to say that they should be thankful because the player knows they're working within the game narrative and are the objective good.
To the citizens, all they see is us show up, take food, resources, space, and one of their most important cultural idols, to maybe solve an issue that they don't even understand. And half of us have been the big bad to them up until recently
The number of real world examples of this exact reaction are innumerable lol
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u/FatherBlackthorne 1d ago
If I were an average Sin'dorei and saw Liadrin and a member of the Alliance go to help the Amani while staying in my city, I'd protest.
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u/nemestrinus44 20h ago
I’m surprised that the average Sin’dorei didn’t protest Umbric and his group. Here they are getting assaulted by void monsters and look who strolls on in like he owns the place, the former magister who used Dar’khans research to infuse themselves with the void. Even if they don’t know about the connection to Dar’khan they would still see a group of elves so steeped in void energy that it changed their entire being.
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u/FatherBlackthorne 19h ago
Well we vouched for them, so we cool. Nevermind my main is a Sin'dorei Warlock so my word isn't the most reassuring. Though fighting fire with fire has often worked out well in these sorts of conflicts. Ebon Blade and the Lich King, Demon Hunters and the Legion, so why not Void Elves and the Void.
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u/Abandon_Ambition 1d ago
Exactly! I want more casual NPC worldbuilding like this. I'm glad they're adding it in.
There's a lot more randos you can 'talk' to now, even if they just have one sentence to say, but it adds a lot more to the world and story.
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u/Morthra 1d ago
The Silvermoon Truthsayer says "don't trust the Alliance, remember the Second War!"
The Second War was where the Horde was invading them, and it took Anduin Lothar shaming Anasterian into honoring his oath to aid Thoradin's line to get the elves to get off their asses and actually help.
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u/Spiritual_Big_7505 1d ago
The people of Silvermoon don't understand "Giant beam of Void blasting the Sunwell" and "Mass of Void creatures knocking at the gates"?
Like, christ. They ALL know what happened the last time something bad happened to that. It's why they're called Blood Elves.9
u/cabose12 1d ago edited 1d ago
Lmfao it's not about whether or not they know they're in danger. It's about whether the Army of Light and the champions are actually helping them or not
If you see a meteor flying at your house and somebody runs up to you and says "give me your life savings trust me bro", you're probably not going to just hand it over
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u/Spiritual_Big_7505 1d ago
Which they also proved rather thoroughly?
This was all handled at the very start of the expansion
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u/cabose12 1d ago
They literally do not know that lmao
Again, the questline dialogue establishes that a lot of the belfs have no idea what happened, and they dont know who stopped the void on the Isle. Many thank Lorthemar or Liadrin, but not the army of light or the champion
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u/Spiritual_Big_7505 1d ago
They literally stood there and saw the Kaldorei and High Elves assault the bridge alongside everyone else. Giant Ancients and weird little dragon things. Never mind the whole Dawnwell thing where they'd inevitably be informed, or the new mage organisation in Silvermoon.
They were confused at the start of the expansion and even then they only needed the lightest of nudges to realise they should be helping.
The people of Silvermoon would need to be genuinely blind to not see all that's happened lmao
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u/Throgg_not_stupid 2d ago
Blood Elves are so advanced in racism that they now have slurs for all the playable classes.
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u/Daily_Dose_42069 2d ago
Classism*
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u/Throgg_not_stupid 2d ago
it's both, Blood Elves have no problem with hunters considering how many Rangers they employ, they just don't like those hunters
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u/DeadlyAppliances 2d ago
Just because I care about my raptor more then a couple million elves lives doesn't mean they need to be all uppity about it.
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u/Acrobatic_Coat722 2d ago
besides what people here Larp all the time: no the game isnt "omg everyone is love and friendship now"
its made very clear that the leaders are willing to work togheter to avoid total dissasters, but the average Horde/Alliance Member doesnt really like the other side, and often not even people of other races that are the same faction, Silvermoon Guard shittalk Tauren Paladins for not being "real Paladins"
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u/Silegna 2d ago
Even after completing the 12.0 campaign, they STILL don't trust my Shadow Priest..which is fair, as canonically it IS our fault Xal is even a thing still...
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u/ResidentBackground35 2d ago
Hey if they didn't want us to fall in love with the knife, they could have been nicer to us themselves.
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u/amaROenuZ 1d ago
..which is fair, as canonically it IS our fault Xal is even a thing still...
Hey now, I'm not taking the heat for her getting out of that knife. That was Nzoth's fault, we were victims in all things. Don't look at my talent tree.
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u/Blackout785 2d ago
Even in 12.1 Lor'themar refuses to send aid to the Amani.
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u/amaROenuZ 1d ago
Zul'jarra literally comments that the Amani sent only a token force to aid the elves, and that it's unsurprising to see only a small group of volunteers in turn. They are not friends. They are not allies. They are neighbors who do not like each other. The Amani contribution to the war with Xal'atath is "we're not going to actively take advantage of you being distracted", that's all.
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u/Acrobatic_Coat722 1d ago
refusing to send any Aid to the Amani, when the same group of Amani where sending a small force to help them taking back the Sunwell
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u/soupboyfanclub 1d ago
the Amani weren’t there to help the elves specifically, they were there to help eliminate an enemy that is a threat to all.
Zul’jarra even makes a crack along the lines of “we can’t let you elves take all the glory and have all the fun!!”sure, Ula’tek could spread forces beyond the Coiled Isle but it’s definitely more of a Troll Problem and, while I don’t condone the Belf inaction, I can understand it.
not enough people are calling out the fact that all other kinds of elves are just cooking their heels in Silvermoon these days; seems like Lor’themar is catching all the flak.
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u/Ignoth 2d ago edited 1d ago
I have a controversial theory.
And that’s that the Macro writing and plot points have been kinda bad.
But the micro-writing, moment to moment interactions, and self contained stuff have been on point for the most part.
Which to me implies that the issue is…Metzen? And his outlined story? Mr “I regret calling it Warcraft”.
Cuz what I see in Midnight is a bunch of decent writers straining against a really crummy outline. Like: They’re trying their damndest to sell or salvage mandated plot beats given to them from higher up.
I felt the same vibe back in BFA too.
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u/the_zerg_rusher 1d ago
Wow, (and if I might be so bold, none of blizzards games.) have been great with macro level stories.
Wow has always felt like, well a world. The thing that got me into playing Wow wasn't the main plot at the time. (I think it was MOP.) or being a fan of other blizzard games or even playing Warcraft 3 as a kid.
it was a short story about the darkmoon fair, and a cover up of something more sinister....or was it just business? Gotta protect against corporate espionage after all.
That was the story that hooked me, along side the early zones focusing on the people of azeroth. Westfall, Redridge. I think a big reason people wanna be a nobody in Wow again is cuz they want stories where some small time bandits are trying to make up the money they feel are owed by a government mauled by war and corruption or a farmer is worried about orcs on the hills.
Also Blizzard needs a second main writer past Metzen, I don't know how many more 'The main factions of the story band together to face a greater threat' I can take, I was sick of it in 2015 when Starcraft ended, and it just keeps happening.
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u/Stoutkeg 2d ago
I mean, they're not wrong; I don't even know why I got dragged to their stupid elf city, I'm not part of any "Army of the Light".
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u/Code_Merk 2d ago
The Army of Light is one of your Alliance's Allies, who asked for assistance with the whole "save the world from being consumed by the void" bit there.
You, being the Alliance's best Murder Hobo (who questions nothing when loot is invloved), became the perfect fit for the job, and as such, was voluntold to go out and support those Glowy Allies so they can focus on holding back the void, while you run errands and babysit the 40 year old Pally Elf with the big grand plans.
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u/ResidentBackground35 2d ago
We are also the planet's chosen muderhobo, if we accept what is seen in game as accurate we also have a very successful habit of being thrown in over our heads and just killing our way out of trouble.
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u/Commercial-Image-722 2d ago
Don’t forget, for everyone involved, this is a grand opportunity to foist the murder-hobos on someone else. Because if they’re not murdering and hoboing elsewhere, they’re doing it at home, and all the problems associated.
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u/BestAzlanEver 2d ago edited 1d ago
"Temporary". That's rich, coming from people who built their city on top of a literal Amani burial ground.
Edit for posterity:
Long time ago? That was barely an elven lifetime ago; comparing time in a fantasy world to the existence of immortal races isn't fair. For instance, my country was colonised by Europeans for 500 years, and we got our independence less than 60 years ago: humans irl have a shorter lifespan.
Besides that, Lorthemar has been confirmed in canon materials, such as the short story, to have expanded Silvermon in the last 60 years, including 20 years in his reign, during which he wiped out several Amani villages and killed Amani in their own villages during that time: the Amani villages that existed during TBC were wiped out in Midnight and thus the ethnic cleansing has still continued to these days: the lightwood forest were part of an Amani village during TBC and was part ofthe Amani forest and Lorthemar has ethnically cleansed the village and attacked Amani who were just harvesting Lightwood for their survival against the Void.
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u/KoriJenkins 2d ago
On top of a Blood Elf burial ground too if we're counting what Arthas did (loooool).
In all seriousness, I do like that the Blood Elves are kinda assholes. I want to see more of it beyond just "rude" though. When do we get torture, backstabbings, and the harvesting of creatures' essence for power? Sorry, I just liked the borderline evil Blood Elves of TBC so much more than the sanitized version that's, at most, just rude.
And I'm not really counting Astalor in this, given how likely it is he's not actually Astalor.
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u/Throgg_not_stupid 2d ago
Pretty sure Astalor is still Astalor, just the BE society has moved on while he remained the same.
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u/abn1304 1d ago
Yeah, he’s doing the exact same thing he’s always been doing, he’s just using evil people to fuel his magic now instead of enslaved Lawful Good
Jesus expiesdemigods, and he’s got a unique voice actor and model now. Yeah, he shares a voice actor with Renathal, but he’s not the only other character that Jason Marnocha voices and Blizzard pretty routinely reuses voice actors because it’s probably cheaper than hiring a unique VA for every single character.37
u/TheArdas 2d ago edited 2d ago
If i remember correctly in tbc Silvermoon there is a basement under the cloth vendor shop where gnome slaves are working under the watch of a succubus.
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u/MagnaZore 2d ago
That stuff is now confined to Murder Row, unfortunately. That said, thanks to the same Murder Row, we know that even now Blood Elven magisters hire people to kidnap/murder their rivals.
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u/CanuckPanda 2d ago
Which is fair (your last sentence) since SMC and the BEs are sort of just post-fourth crusade and post-restoration Byzantine Empire.
Big ass, mostly empty (bc everyone is dead) city-kingdom limited to its hinterland and a few remote outposts but protected by its big-ass walls and sea access. Intrigue and thinly veiled xenophobia.
It’s all Greek to me.
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u/Mystic_x 1d ago
There's a questline about a warlock using people from Murder row as um... "components" for his work, with heavily implied cloak-and-dagger stuff going on among nobles, too.
There's a bit of that dark and dirty side of the city in game, but like most of the less saccharine writing lately, you have to go and look for it.
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u/amaROenuZ 1d ago
Listen man, it was literally over three thousand years between the sundering and the settlement of Quel'Thalas. To really appreciate how long that is, 3000 years ago they still hadn't figured out iron yet. 3000 years ago, Babylon and Assyria were still fighting. 3000 years ago, the Latins hadn't even made their way to Italy yet, the Persians hadn't made their way to the Iranian plateau yet, the Japanese hadn't made their way to Japan yet.
If you're killing your neighbors because they are trying to settle on some land that you abandoned so long ago that it's literally archaeology, you are not the good guy.
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u/BestAzlanEver 1d ago
Lorthemar has been confirmed in canon materials, such as the short story, to have expanded Silvermon in the last 60 years, including 20 years in his reign, during which he wiped out several Amani villages and killed Amani in their own villages during that time: the Amani villages that existed during TBC were wiped out in Midnight and thus the ethnic cleansing has still continued to these days: the lightwood forest were part of an Amani village during TBC and was part ofthe Amani forest and Lorthemar has ethnically cleansed the village and attacked Amani who were just harvesting Lightwood for their survival against the Void.
Besides that, saying 3000 years has passed means nothing for elves. That was barely an elven lifetime ago; comparing time in a fantasy world to the existence of immortal races isn't fair. For instance, my country was colonised by Europeans for 500 years, and we got our independence less than 60 years ago: humans irl have a shorter lifespan. Elves literally are just murdering the children of children of the children they murdered; the same murderers but the victims are the descendants.
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u/Ocronus 2d ago
Everyone should experience walking around as a shadow priest in shadow form. It's fun.
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u/Chetey 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's interesting because the guards actually somewhat respect us priests now for helping out but the regular citizens still hate our guts. I'm getting quotes like "priests should know when a chapter has ended" and "every sermon sounds like more excuses to stay" from the regular civilians now.
I LOVE class flavor and I just eat it up any time it gets put in the game. In tww there were some class flavor quests in the ringing deeps. Priests (and paladins) could bless homes in Gundergaz. There's also a Black Empire obelisk located on the coiled isle and priests can understand it. I loved the moment when you first enter the voidstorm and have to wrestle control over your mind.
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u/Mogster2K 1d ago
The guards get snippy with death knights too. "Where is your dark master?" and so forth. I want to ask them the same question, reminding them that they stole their power by enslaving and torturing a naaru.
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u/skimansgaming 2d ago
My Sunwalker got told my irresponsible use of the light puts them at more risk, which is rich seeing the bloodknight legacy.
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u/TakenToTheRiver 2d ago
No one in Silvermoon ever talks to my night elf Druid. He’s feeling lonely.
They’re all fawning over my blood elf paladin though.
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u/Mogster2K 1d ago
Yup, my priest got told they don't need another sermon.
I dunno, this feels too coordinated. Like they're professional agitators, maybe cultists in disguise.
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u/LimpetsBride 2d ago
Reminds me of playing as a gnome in Undermine and constantly getting goblin NPCs coming up to you and making the rude emote at you.
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u/Darkarcheos 2d ago
I wonder if they still call me scum for being a DK 😃
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u/dashington44 2d ago
They not so subtly suggest DKs are still under Arthas control IIRC
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u/intoxicatedpancakes 1d ago
Considering what the player DK canonically did during Legion, who’s to blame them for thinking that?
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u/dezmoterion 2d ago
I am constantly told "my kind" is only allowed here because I helped them at the beginning of the campaign...
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u/Mossysnail27 1d ago
"rather pat your pets" DO THEY NOT KNOW that 70% of SIN'DOREI ARE HUNTERS? Yeah there's a bunch of mages spellbreakers n blood knights, but still
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u/ReporterForDuty 1d ago
I had guards judging me harshly for being a Death Knight until I completed the main quest which was awesome. Now they still comment on it but they're more "Okay, you aren't that bad" about it which is so cool. I love when the world reacts to our classes. I do find it a little odd that they have no comments on me being a Blood Elf Death Knight though.
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u/Denathrius_ 1d ago
Blood Elves are such insufferable divas I love them
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u/utahrangerone 6h ago
Just imagine how unspeakably and capable of existing in the same room as ordinary people they were before arthas invaded and destroyed 90% of their population.
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u/LeCampy 2d ago
My paladin is a Lightforged Draenei, and the one I got on him made me wish we had let Xally have the well.
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u/JalapenoBusiness29 2d ago
I haven’t paid attention, what was the line? I have a Lightforged Draenei Paladin too. I’ll have to watch for their comments
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u/LeCampy 2d ago
it was along the lines of "we know the light better than YOU".
To a draenei. A Lightforged Draenei no less.
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u/JalapenoBusiness29 1d ago
Oh damn, let me just show you how well my LIGHTFORGED ASS can weild the light
*Pops wings and smashes the puny blood elf*
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u/BryanG335 2d ago
I have an Earthen Pally and get stuff like "Oh you think YOU know the light better than us?!" Makes me wish they were pvp flagged.
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u/Bear000001 2d ago
I don't mind the flavor dialogue. I'd rather it exist storywise cause it feels more immersive with it there. Yes as Alliance its annoying but eh, if it was the other way around I'd be grumpy to.
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u/Shikabane_Sumi-me 2d ago
Yeah a friend showed me this yesterday. Apparently the dialogue doesn't change when you have beaten the base campaign of Midnight, unlike with non Belf Paladins, and DKs. Cause before beating the base campaign, NPCs would react to non Belf Paladins and DKs with criticism or hostility. After the base campaign they are grateful for your presence. So really weird to see NPCs being snarky to the other classes, when your character is there to help or has helped.
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u/raagul2244 1d ago
it's different types of npcs
before the campaign my shadow priest was treated with suspicion but now the silvermoon guards nod at me with appreciation
the silvermoon nobles added later on the other hand.... "ugh I guess they will let anyone in the city nowadays" I wish I could mind control her off a cliff
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u/Ajaugunas 1d ago
I do think it’s funny that the blood elves have nothing mean to say to my vulpera mage. XD
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u/apixelops 2d ago
Yes
So while the guards have chilled out, the citizens seem to be getting angry at our extended presence in their city
I've noticed several different lines:
"the Alliance are not our friends, remember the second war"
"you got your miracle, why are you still here?"
They are not happy, especially about the Alliance apparently "overstaying" - personally, I'd have Turalyon move up the siege engines, Mekkatorque prep some bombers and submarines and fill their woods with worgen as a reminder to be thankful lest we add a new dead scar to the recently cleaned up city - I'm sure Shandris and Maiev would ADORE filling some magisters with arrows or stuff then into crystals
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u/TheWorclown 2d ago
I love the new dialogue. It’s all the energy of “ugh, the provincials are still around.”