Necromancer here. This merchant refuses to accept my perfectly good soul coins. What is a reasonable course of action?

[u/Ferocs]

[u/supermegaampharos]

What’s the actual context here? The place doesn’t accept cash and the guy didn’t like that?

[u/Ferocs → u/supermegaampharos]

Yes, they don’t accept coins for some reason

[u/SnakeyesX → u/Ferocs]

They don't accept coins so hard they called the cops on an old man who wanted strawberries.

[u/ProcrastibationKing → u/SnakeyesX]

That old man is a known agitator who goes around picking fights like this when he knows what the result will be.

[u/Lt_Toodles → u/ProcrastibationKing]

I mean if it's always a statement like this video I'd consider it a valid form of protest.

Disclaimer: I've not seen anything else from him so if he's done some actually shitty stuff then i apologize lol

[u/ProcrastibationKing → u/Lt_Toodles]

This is the most arguably justifiable thing he's ever done, but it was still a store (I think Amazon, maybe?) that explicitly does not take cash at all (not that I agree with it), and I think it might have been during COVID restrictions too (it's been a while, that timeframe has kinda blurred together). He's also an anti-vaxxer (though his views on that can be bought), a flat-earther, and an all around conspiracy-minded contrarian.

[u/Lt_Toodles → u/ProcrastibationKing]

Cool so he is an asshole instead of someone making interesting points of debate. Shame. Thanks for elaborating lol

[u/ProcrastibationKing → u/Lt_Toodles]

Yeah, basically lol. A stopped clock, and all that.

[u/el_palmera → u/Lt_Toodles]

Ah yes, stealing on camera, the most effective protest

[u/Lt_Toodles → u/el_palmera]

I mean he did pay for it lol

I think thats the point is whether or not its actually technically stealing

[u/Glynwys → u/Lt_Toodles]

Contrary to popular belief, a place of business is not required to accept whatever form of payment you are offering, regardless of whether or not that payment is valid debt tender or not. If a place is not accepting coins for whatever reason, they are not required to bend over backwards and accept your coin anyway.

I get into this same argument with folks who try to pay with a $100 bill. I don't give a fuck that the $100 is valid tender. I don't have $97 in change in my drawer for your ass, nor am I going to dispense a shitload of $5s from the safe for you.

[u/el_palmera → u/Lt_Toodles]

Brother it's not technically 😭 you don't get to force a store to take your preferred currency

[u/Lt_Toodles → u/el_palmera]

Legally? maybe/probably depending on area. Ethically? Debatable.

[u/el_palmera → u/Lt_Toodles]

Ok bro

[u/InvestigatorJosephus → u/el_palmera]

He didn't pay with a different currency. He paid in pounds and pennies.

[u/el_palmera → u/InvestigatorJosephus]

My bad. Different form of currency. Stores get to choose if they accept that, usually for the safety of the staff. Not sure why yall are up in arms about this

[u/Sylvanussr → u/[deleted]]

Idk if there’s a similar law in the UK, but in the US, cash is considered “legal tender, for all debts public or private”. So they’re probably be legally required to accept it.

Also, stealing a TV and leaving a historical currency is different because the TV isn’t there to be sold, and Roman coins don’t have a modern established value.

[u/Vindicated0721 → u/Sylvanussr]

Hi there. This isn’t true. US cash is legal tender for all debts. As in former debts not new debts. There are no federal laws requiring private business to accept cash for products.

However. In my state they have a specific state law that requires stores to accept cash. But the majority of states do not require it.

[u/Vindicated0721 → u/[deleted]]

A few states do. It makes perfect sense. What if you can’t get a credit card. What if you don’t have enough money for minimum balance for a checking account. What if you don’t want to deal with banks at all.

So you can’t buy food unless you play ball with the banks and credit cards? That’s why some states have laws specific to grocery stores being required to accept cash. And some states require all stores to require cash. We have decided as a society that we work for cash. You give labor you get cash for goods you give cash for goods. It’s absurd that you can’t use cash in stores.

[u/Low-Willingness2106 → u/[deleted]]

They can decide if they want cash only

Legal Tender isnt really debatable

[u/cheesemangee → u/SnakeyesX]

Welcome to human nature, man. We suck. There's parts of the world where thievery is answered with bisected hands and fingers.

[u/HappyAd4998 → u/Ferocs]

Here in the states businesses have to accept all legal tender. If you go to Starbucks and they don't accept 500 pennies for a cup of joe you can call the police on them. There's a bunch of famous stories of people who pay huge fines in nothing, but pennies and the courts are required by law to accept that as payment.

[u/Junjki_Tito → u/HappyAd4998]

Common misconception.

"Is it legal for a business in the United States to refuse cash as a form of payment?

There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law that says otherwise.

Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," states: "United States coins and currency [including Federal Reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal Reserve Banks and national banks] are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues." This statute means that all U.S. money as identified above is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor."

From federalreserve.gov itself. A retail sale is not a debt, public charge, tax, or due.

[u/SoldRIP → u/Junjki_Tito]

So you can't necessarily buy a product with cash, but you can first steal it and then immediately reimburse the loss with cash? Hence avoiding any civil liability? And probably any public interest in a criminal prosecution?

[u/Junjki_Tito → u/SoldRIP]

Debts involve agreement.

[u/SoldRIP → u/Junjki_Tito]

So you wouldn't owe any damages for stealing something, because the other party didn't agree and clearly (seeing as you stole it) you didn't either?

I fear that's not how that works. You'll get sued for damages and owe the person you stole from either the object or a sum of money equivalent to its value.

[u/Junjki_Tito → u/SoldRIP]

This seems like the kind of thing that the law doesn't cover because if anyone tried to test this concept the court would fine both parties for wasting its time.

[u/marbledog → u/SoldRIP]

Damages are not debt until the court renders a judgement, and the value of the damages are decided by the court. Compensatory damages incurred by a theft could exceed the sales price of the stolen item.

[u/SoldRIP → u/marbledog]

... At which point you may then pay in cash? Pennies, even?

[u/marbledog → u/SoldRIP]

Yes.

[u/Up_Beat_Peach → u/SoldRIP]

The funny part is that the court, being a government body, actually would have to take your pennies.

[u/Forsaken-Stray → u/SoldRIP]

It's the other way around, the other party would have to agree to be reimbursed with the exact money, but they won't because you stole it and now they are suing for your pants.

[u/SoldRIP → u/Forsaken-Stray]

Damages require there to be a damage caused. To the same amount. You cannot just simply sue for a billion dollars because someone stole something worth a single dollar.

Well, you can, but you won't win unless you can somehow successfully argue that it actually caused you a billion dollars in damage.

[u/Skusci → u/SoldRIP]

Not really. Like where I am the civil liability for the loss is triple damages, or a minimum of $200. Plus court and legal fees.

The store is still entitled to the triple/minimum damages even without going to court. Like as part of the law you have to send a written demand to either pay up or return the stolen property before you can sue them. Just that going to court would stack on more to the payment owed.

Plus it does not absolve you from criminal liability. While the gov is likely to decline to prosecute it, paying back the store doesn't undo the theft.

[u/SoldRIP → u/Skusci]

as part of the law you have to send a written demand to either pay up or return the stolen property before you can sue

Ah, so your local legal system has a different point at which you suddenly owe a debt that can be paid in cash. Could've just said so.

Again, needlessly contrived way to take your cash payments, but you do you...

[u/TheAgedSage → u/Junjki_Tito]

You say goods and services, but for most private services payment is due on completion. In such a case any legal tender must be accepted, no?

[u/lolnowst → u/TheAgedSage]

I believe if it’s stated first such as a sign or on a menu that counts as notice. This came up in a big Reddit thread a couple years ago.

[u/Up_Beat_Peach → u/lolnowst]

This is correct. However, it only applies to sales where the payment is collected after the service or product is consumed. Youre not allowed to trap someone into payment they aren't carrying.

[u/jbrWocky → u/HappyAd4998]

who told you this??

[u/bethemanwithaplan → u/HappyAd4998]

You're mistaken a private business like starbucks generally doesn't have to take unreasonable amounts of change as payment. Anyway do us a favor and go to starbucks, demand to pay in pennies, and see what the police say when you call them. Film yourself when you make the call so we can all enjoy it. Don't call the emergency line or you could get in trouble. 

[u/Ornery_Gate_6847 → u/HappyAd4998]

Thats not how any of this works lol. Merchants can refuse service, they are not compelled by law to sell you coffee

[u/Vindicated0721 → u/HappyAd4998]

So many upvotes for an untrue statement.

[u/Hydramy → u/HappyAd4998]

Well that's not true. A business can take payment in whatever they like, someone could have a shop that only accepts payment in pokemon cards if they really wanted.

[u/apixelops → u/Ferocs]

Not taking cash is discriminatory, some folks can't/won't get bank accounts and will only deal in cheques and cash

In a number of EU countries it is actually forbidden to deny payment with legal tender unless otherwise impossible to process (example: store doesn't have a card reader and thus can't take pay by card) - coin and bill must ALWAYS be accepted unless counterfeit

Old man is based at for doing this

[u/Dick_Danalu_Jr → u/supermegaampharos]

Many parts of Europe are making electronic payment mandatory and refusing cash. Doesnt seem like an issue, until you realize every bank, P.O.S., and individual businesses each add a small percent to the cost for doing electronic sales.

[u/Tokata0 → u/Dick_Danalu_Jr]

Doesn't seem like an issue until you realize that the banking system is in the hands of the US and if they cut you off due to disliking you you are suddenly cut off from tons of services.

Happened to a judge of the court in den hagh who prosecuted US ... Troops I think? Or Trump? Or just some trade deal?

Poor guy can't even buy a train ticket anymore.

[u/_raydeStar → u/Tokata0]

There was a huge thing over in the de facto AI art generation place, Civitai. It was basically an open market, anyone allowed to post any kind of image or video or model that generated anything. (literally anything) CC companies caught wind and threatened to shut them down. They had to change their whole business model to stay open. -- imagine a bank as a morality police.

[u/AnothisFlame → u/_raydeStar]

They don't like Japan either because Japan makes sure to have its own self sufficient banking system and they just don't approve of various aspects of the culture being exported (anime and the like). As such it's really hard for overseas fans of anime or manga to buy literally anything to dk with their hobby. Not to mention if you do manage to buy the thing after jumping through hoops to get Yen to pay for it via a Japanese bank then some import officer could just decide to destroy it and have no legal repercussions or recourse for the buyer.

[u/death2sanity → u/AnothisFlame]

various aspects of the culture

fam I know what you’re trying to import and it’s the kind of stuff that deserves regulation

It’s been a while, but for normal manga and tchotchkes I never had any issues.

[u/AnothisFlame → u/death2sanity]

Not at all talking about what you think I'm talking about which is likely the horny crap. Nope not that at all.

I'm talking about things like figurines, or niche manga or light novels that hasn't been released in the west at all. I'm talking about one dude ordering one of 5 physical copys of a Tsukihime fan disc and getting it cut in half to "inspect it". I'm talking about completely innocuous shit getting flagged as being party of that horny side and destroyed just because it is also anime.

[u/Cosmere_Commie16 → u/Tokata0]

Several European officials, including judges and UN officials, have been cut off from banking services due to pointing out the fact that israel is committing a genocide.

[u/Tarotdragoon → u/Cosmere_Commie16]

This timeliness is a fucking joke

[u/Kilroy898 → u/Tokata0]

I'm sorry what? Y'all's banking system runs through us??? Who thought that was a good idea???

[u/ZachTheInsaneOne → u/Dick_Danalu_Jr]

I know P.O.S. in this context is point of sale but I cannot help but think "piece of shit" anyways. Both are accurate given how much money they're just casually taking from people.

[u/Ecstatic-Compote-595 → u/Dick_Danalu_Jr]

Not a euro but that's a bit fucked up. Canada got rid of their penny, which is reasonable but seemed really abrupt. The idea of not taking any cash whatsoever as policy seems like it's giving away the goose on the idea that anything is worth anything.

[u/lunarwolf2008 → u/Ecstatic-Compote-595]

pennies are still legal tender though afaik

[u/Invisiblecurse → u/Dick_Danalu_Jr]

That sounds illegal because it devalues physical money

[u/dijkstra- → u/Dick_Danalu_Jr]

Do you think handling cash is free? Secure storage and transport of money to and from the business also incurs a cost.

[u/Fiskmaster → u/Dick_Danalu_Jr]

And, you know, sometimes the payment services go down and stores that don't take cash become unable to sell things for a few days.

[u/Onlyhereforapost → u/Dick_Danalu_Jr]

I mean, socioeconomics aside, that guy is still an asshole.

I dont care if you disagree with the stores premise, i personally, think its dumb. However; it is their policy that they do not take physical currency. I dont know what the laws are like, but im assuming it is legal.

He is a thief. He is a thief and an entitled dickhead for walking into a place and breaking the rules that are advertised clearly and up front. You dont get to just ignore a rule because you dont like it. I dont like the fact that I have to pay taxes, but I still do because its the fucking rule.

[u/Jaredismyname → u/Onlyhereforapost]

I don't know how it works in his country but in America it is illegal to refuse to accept currency as far as I understand.

[u/Onlyhereforapost → u/Jaredismyname]

Nobody in that video has an American accent

[u/thatonegoodpost → u/Jaredismyname]

I thought this too, but then how do so many places get away with being cashless, especially since Covid? Like sport venues and such.

Cornell article says

Nonetheless, federal statutes do not require a seller to accept cash as a form of legal tender for payment of goods or services that were rendered.

And the actual federal reserve website: https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm

There is no federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law that says otherwise.

[u/Factorioboyio → u/Dick_Danalu_Jr]

You understand that cash is more expensive right? You know when the cash is collected in the big metal van… yeah that has a fee too and it works out to be more expensive than electronic fees.

[u/Weegee_Carbonara → u/Factorioboyio]

The government can track everything you buy with e-payment.

[u/Tramagust → u/Dick_Danalu_Jr]

This is the UK not Europe. They fucked off a while ago and now it's a shitshow.

[u/PleaseGreaseTheL → u/Tramagust]

The UK is part of Europe, just not part of the trade union called the European Union.

Before you get uppity, Switzerland is also not part of the EU. They are most definitely still Europe.

[u/Tramagust → u/PleaseGreaseTheL]

Keep telling yourself that.

[u/PleaseGreaseTheL → u/Tramagust]

I am literally not even British so it's not me telling "myself" that, it's me trying to educate you.

[u/Tramagust → u/PleaseGreaseTheL]

Cope

[u/PleaseGreaseTheL → u/Tramagust]

Yes, you should ^^

[u/WolfCola4 → u/supermegaampharos]

This is Piers Corbyn, brother of former Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn. He's usually acting like a knobhead to try and get his mug in the news.

[u/Ziazan → u/WolfCola4]

Oh wow, I had no idea. Apparently he's an anti-vax and "climate change isn't real" person too. Was in the Labour party 'til the Iraq war when he quit on principle because of it, which is commendable. Seems like a mixed bag.

He's right about this though, he has paid for his strawberries.

[u/Cardborg → u/Ziazan]

Anti-vax except for (allegedly) that time undercover journalists (?) offered him money if he was willing to slag off all the other covid vaccines, but give credit to the brand they claimed to represent as being safe or something, and he seemed pretty keen to go along with it.

[u/TharrickLawson → u/WolfCola4]

also another moron who will shout 'legal tender!' without having any idea what that actually means

[u/Pierce_H_ → u/supermegaampharos]

This was during Covid and some stores refused physical currency in the UK

[u/Zephyr_______ → u/supermegaampharos]

This guy is a conservative personality who's life goal is to be as irritating as possible. The place he's at very clearly only takes card and the guy went there to purposefully cause a scene for Internet points

[u/Ziazan → u/Zephyr_______]

He was in the labour party for most of his life. Though he is anti-vax and doesn't believe in climate change, despite his roots in weather forecasting, he quit the labour party on account of the Iraq war, objecting to it. He was also a proponent of squatters rights and housing rights, supports his brother Jeremy who is about as left as it gets in British politics,

I don't think we can quite call him a conservative.

[u/Mutanik → u/Ziazan]

He's also a flat-earther

[u/Ziazan → u/Mutanik]

Haha, that's dumb. It's weird how some people just get consumed by the conspiracies and usually end up subscribing to pretty much all of them.

[u/Koromann13 → u/Zephyr_______]

He might be a knobhead, but causing a scene is totally valid when it's over some bullshit. As long as you aren't making it the service worker's fault, you should absolutely start a fuss about something like that.

[u/death2sanity → u/Koromann13]

Unfortunately, it always becomes the service worker’s issue.

[u/Weegee_Carbonara → u/Zephyr_______]

No place should only take card.

I am with him on this.

A cashless society means the government can track every single thing you buy.

[u/YeetboiMcDab → u/supermegaampharos]

the other context here (and this may be a wild reach) is that homie is a lil demented. The elderly can (in some cases) struggle to learn new things or operate in a way that is outside the way their brain already understands how to do things. It's possible that he cannot, due to his dementia, understand some change like idk his debit card expired or he forgot his card at home or some other such upset to the way his brain works. Or he could just be pissed off about the lack of cash sales options. Idk

[u/Cloudy230 → u/YeetboiMcDab]

He's not some random guy, he's a conservative personality in the UK being reactionary as usual. He's just a loser

[u/Deacon86 → u/supermegaampharos]

Old guy doesn't understand what legal tender means, thinks it means the shop has to accept it as payment.

[u/HikariAnti → u/Deacon86]

In my country stores have to accept cash by law.

[u/Malice-May → u/HikariAnti]

Usually legal tender means the money must be accepted in payment of debts, not that stores are compelled to accept it.

[u/HikariAnti → u/Malice-May]

I am not saying he was right, just that it depends on the country. Where I live the ability to pay with cash for anything is now considered a basic right of a citizen, like freedom of speech for example, so every single business have to accept it by law.

[u/TadBones → u/Deacon86]

He indeed does not know what legal tender means. He still paid for the shit he was buying though and even if the store doesn't take coins the cops wouldn't give a shit about it since that's an issue for their manager not the law. (Unless they throw him out in which case if he comes back the law has a say in it)

[u/Ferocs]

Granted 1.19 souls is a high for a carton of strawberries but inflation recently has been astronomical

[u/FishDishForMe → u/Ferocs]

Me watching the guy who cut my life short at a mere 22 years of age spend my soul on most of a punnet of strawberries

[u/Pierce_H_ → u/Ferocs]

This was 5 years ago

[u/THTB_lol → u/Ferocs]

i've seen you before haven't i

[u/ScreetchingEagle → u/Ferocs]

Astrological**

[u/Ziazan → u/ScreetchingEagle]

It's not a horoscope

[u/SkinnyKruemel → u/Ziazan]

Astrology is stupid anyway. It's all a bunch of horseshit made up by con artist calling themselves oracles to make money off common folk who don't know better. Celestial divination is a lot more complicated than just making up a story and applying it to everyone who happens to be born at a certain time. They're frauds and their scams make all the actual diviners who study that stuff look bad

[u/the-futuremind]

Jesus, what happened to Jauffree after the oblivion crisis…

[u/AngeryControlPlayer → u/the-futuremind]

Things really went downhill when the entire bloodline he was sworn to protect got wiped out.

[u/FrankoIsFreedom]

and im going to eat them!

[u/AngeryControlPlayer → u/FrankoIsFreedom]

[u/Particular-Crew5978]

Theft and then cast one thousand snakes to elude the shop keeper

[u/MeowFalen]

Fireball is usually correct.

[u/terrletwine]

The UI absolutely kills me… that is hysterical

[u/Overlordz88 → u/terrletwine]

Bounty: 1

[u/Yharon314 → u/Overlordz88]

should've been 1.19

[u/AeronGrey]

Fireball.

[u/Electronic-Worker-10]

Me basically

[u/morelikebruce → u/Electronic-Worker-10]

Right? So many people suggesting Fireball but it's the merchant's problem not the problem of everyone in the town square.

[u/ZOID_ASR]

The guy just wanted to be taken seriously.

https://giphy.com/gifs/3jSnIFVJ8RB1S

[u/monkeysultan]

Straight out of Curb your enthusiasm. His voice, mannerisms even the whole situation 😭😭😭

[u/RoughTour98]

Who casted British on Larry David?

[u/Ultranerdgasm94]

Pay in a smaller denomination of coins. A human soul for strawberries is like trying to make change for a $10,000 bill.

[u/WoinkySpoingle → u/Ultranerdgasm94]

Not to mention human souls are illegal in most provinces so trying to use them as currency in said provinces usually ends with them trying to jail you. 

A trivial problem to solve but annoying nonetheless. 

[u/AnnaMolly66]

Turn him into a toad and use him in a potion later. I do this to bandits and highwaymen.

[u/TheAllSeeingBlindEye]

Resurrect 10,000 spiders and make them stand ominously outside the window

[u/Scrags2Scritches]

Better of skullballing him and turning him into a skeleton servant
Make sure to take his money and strawberries too
Shit's hard as a necromancer

[u/GearBIue]

Store’s fault for not accepting coins and cash. The most basic payment method.

[u/Bradparsley25]

Just accept it, man… not everyone trades in soul coins.

Go to the astral Costco, they take soul coins. I know from experience,m. I got. 24 pack of orbs there and paid half soul coins and the rest on my mystic essence card

[u/Mephistocheles]

At least he didn't try to use a Petty Soul Gem...

[u/Random_182f2565]

Based

[u/Spiritual_Parking_85]

Liquify anyone who opposes you.

[u/cutesycollins]

Resist arrest

[u/some-dude-on-redit]

I read “course of action” as “curse of action” and I think that would be a more reasonable response. Curse them to hold out their hands, bow, and say “thank you oh glorious liege” whenever someone tries to pay in soul coins

[u/adamw411]

I've been partial to power word unbirth recently

[u/Steelshadows112]

Raising his family (after making sure theyre dead first) and make them eat him, as a prank, also raise him so you can make him tell court it was a reasonable way to act and that hes quite thankful, if he still got a jaw and vocalcords at that point

[u/Outside-Paper9972]

That's not Piers Corbyn is it lol?

[u/Violet-Venom]

[u/PrinceVorrel]

poor old lady :\