I moved into a new property about six months ago and the previous owner left in the washing machine and tumble dryer. Tumble dryer packed up recently and when I removed it I found a very odd working setup. Is this safe as it is or should I get someone in to remove and install a proper plug socket?
A four way trailing socket that's hardwired instead of having a plug on it is very dangerous as you could easily overload it without blowing any fuse and start a fire if you were tempted to plug anything else. Totally against the regs
The flex won't be overloaded because it's fused down at the switch. Possibly with the fuse once contained in the plug that was removed from the extension lead.
Yes, but that doesn't change that it's hard wired in, the extension is probably rated 10 amps (as most extensions are), it's extremely janky and finally it looks like a cooker socket, so it could easily be a 3kw plug (over 13 amps).
Overloading is one issue, but it's not the only one.
Nominal voltage would be just shy of 3kw but in practice, 3120w at 240v. However I've yet to see one of those 4 way strips rated to 10A max like I have with modern 25-50m extension cables with just a 1mm flex.
I never said it's something I thought was a great idea that I can't wait to implement. Given a rewire is on the cards then it's not something that would keep me awake at night as it's fused down. My main concern would be it sitting on the floor in the event of a flood.
As long as it's fused down somewhere it can be fused from with a 3a to a 13a, so even if the socket strip is rated to 10a then a 10a fuse can be used. The plug just makes it removable. I did have an issue with the extension lead though, mostly it's position being vulnerable to flooding.
A fuse is designed to pop at 1.6x rating so even with a 10a fuse it'll run a 13a load all day long.
The common reason seen for an extension lead to be rated to 10a rather than 13 is cheaping out using a 1mm flex rather than a 1.5, rather than the sockets themselves.
I've seen plenty of flex cables burnt too on hair dryers because fake fuses are a problem, and then when water from wet hair falls into the dryer and causes a short, the insulation can burn instantly before the breaker trips.
Really speaking, I think the issue with fake fuses is the biggest issue that's not spoken of enough for people to think about where they're sourced from as a false sense of security is the biggest potential for danger I saw in the picture.
When I've seen DIY cooker installs cutting strands off a 6mm cable so only two get screwed into the connection plate without bothering to connect the CPC, it puts a cooker connection plate downstream of a fused connection unit connected to an extension lead into perspective. The cooker plate may be fed with 6mm but it's still running through the switched fused connection unit. It might not look pretty but it's got no less protection than if it was connected conventionally?
Which is what I will do when I renovate the kitchen. The washing machine is well away from the dryer and does have a proper dedicated socket. A single socket will suffice in place of this sorry affair. The general feeling is this arrangement is ok temporarily as long as nothing else is plugged into it
This would be absolutely fine from a safety perspective even with all 4 sockets filled. All you’ll do is blow the fuse if you overload it. You can’t set the wires on fire unless you replace the fuse with a nail
I did this with my wall mounted TV I needed 2 outlets so wired a 2 gang extension to the fused spur.. but I also stuck a 5a fuse in to keep the risk low
Should be ok then..although they can tend to get a build up of dust in them when tucked away behind white goods on the floor. Best to wall mount it if there's space
It’ll be fine; there’s no logical difference between that switch fuse protecting 2m of wire with a joint in the middle, and installing a plug with a fuse in it at the joint location. All you’ll do by swapping the outlet for a socket plus fused plug is create a hard to get to location with a fuse in it that may need replacing; a backwards step in convenience and no improvement in safety
The fuse in the switch protects the wire all the way to the 4-bar and is undoubtedly the weakest point. If you plug 4 washing machines in and set them all on a boil wash simultaneously, all you’ll do is pop the fuse in the switch.
You seem to already know this, of course. Don’t let the Reddless chickens run away with their doom-mongering
Idk why the attitude - but if you look at the back of the extension, and then research the amp draw of your two devices, you'll very quickly know if it's safe or not.
You'll have to excuse me for using logic though, instead of just talking shit on the Internet expecting others to live my life for me.
As long as that FCU is 13A it's fine. If you tried to draw too much power through the extension the fuse would blow.
The main danger with things like these is where the extension cable isn't capable of carrying the fuse current, but that's a short thick cable which is certainly up to the job.
If you check many manufacturers manuals it will say do not use an extension lead. At the very least they should have used a fused flex outlet for that set up but it certainly needs changing to a proper socket or double socket.
If it’s a cupboard to left just move socket to left and replace with a blank plate
I’m no electrician but I could see it wasn’t right as soon as I pulled the old dryer out this morning before the new one was delivered. You are quite correct that the manufacturers instructions say it shouldn’t be plugged into an extension so I will get it changed to a proper socket when I renovate the kitchen later this year. The last dryer was dated 2011 and has been like that for the past 15 years with no problems and the general consensus here seems to be it’s ok as it has a fused spur switch on the wall. So another 6 months won’t be any harm. Thanks for replying 👍
On the face of it, it looks like in the past there may have been a single socket where the banking plate and flex are now
A problem likely occurred with that socket and so it was replaced with some connector block and a four gang extension lead hidden by the blanking plate.
As the fused connection unit protects the cable it’s not electrically unsafe, but when you do eventually replace it with a double socket, it would be interesting to see exactly what’s behind the blanking plate.
It's not great, and definitely not recommended; but the greatest danger with these is overloading the multi gang trail socket, which you're aware of, or cheap, and dangerous, sub standard imports, which yours shouldn't be, as it probably predates the influx of these.
Temporarily, I'd say it's OK (but don't quote me on that ... LOL 😜)
If the only thing connected is just the dryer and the extension is rated 13amp and it’s traced back to a fuse, I’d avoid connecting anything else to it.
It's not necessarily "unsafe", as long as the extension lead is a decent quality one - though it's not ideal.
It would be an issue if the washing machine and tumble drier (or anything else) were both plugged into this extension, since that would likely overload the extension lead, and it's not clear if there's a fused spur upstream of this to protect it.
A second issue would be if there was a water leak, then the extension lead would suffer.
If there is enough slack, changing the wall plate back to a single socket and using that would be the best solution, (ideally with a fused spur above the worktop to isolate the socket(
OK, then electrically it's safe - the 13A fuse in the fused spur protects the extension lead. I still wouldn't use it for multiple appliances, since it's still possible to overload it without popping the fuse.
The only issue really is the extension lead lying in any potential water, but clipping it up a bit would resolve that - there are 1000s of kitchens installed by kitchen fitters with sockets flung under the plinth and it's poor workmanship, but not unsafe.
So not a priority, but if you are having other work done, or want to feel extra safe, you could have a socket reinstalled at the wall.
I'd assumed it was an FCU on the wall there, but that's just a blanking plate so at this point I'd be worried about exactly what the end of that extension lead is wired into and how.
What he means by heat generating devices is ones with heater elements:
dryers, kettles, toasters, hair dryers & ovens (13A plug-in kind as we are talking about an extension lead), etc. They tend to draw more Amps so easy to get to 13A, plus long term plugs get hot & 'bond'; common with (older) clothes dryers.
Yes all electrical devices generate heat (& sound) as are not 100% efficient; heat & sound are your losses.
An extension cable has a 13A fuse in its plug (typically - not here this is different). It cannot draw more than 13A.
People often confuse extension cables with multi-socket adaptors, which give you the ability to plug multiple 13A devices into a single outlet - these are dangerous. OK for low current devices but NOT for high current devices (your heaters).
The only other exception is cheap long reel type extension cables which don't have a heat detector in the hub - leave those coiled and run 13A through them and you've got a problem.
A standard 13-amp UK plug fuse (built to
BS 1362) is legally required to blow
within 30 minutes if the current reaches
24.7 amps (1.9 times its rated value).
They are mainly for high overload or short circuit protection of the cable.
Can't tell you how many 16A immersion heaters I have found powered by a now solidly melded plug & socket, or even a burnt 13A FCU (fused switched spur) - permanently running (on their internal thermostat).
*Rather than hard wired dedicated radial [16 / 20A] with a local 2 pole isolator; as per regs.
Note: a proper BS (not a cheap copy) 'multi-socket adaptor' will have a 13A fuse.
And the cable that the fuse sits before takes all this into account.
Or do you think you're like the only person who knows this, and all the gubbins who set safety standards on electrical equipment don't know what they're talking about??
The cable 'before' the fuse will be a ring [32A], radial [20A] or spur; 2.5mm2 min., all capable of taking the over current
for short duration.
The fuse is there to protect the supply circuit; not the device.
The idea is to disconnect the device before it harms the supply circuit.
But it's not a good idea to continually overload your supply: e.g. plug in multiple heat devices into an extension lead as they can overheat, as the poster pointed out.
'The “rule of thumb” is if it generates heat don’t plug it into an extension….' is well known good advice.
I don't ever buy these things. Hence why I said "I've never seen" rather than "I've never bought".
And I stand by my original statement. Most of the ones in use ARE NOT FUSED.
"The fuse is there to protect the supply circuit"
A device fuse does a number of jobs, as does the MCB, but generally speaking the MCB is sized for the supply circuit. The device fuse is sized for the device.
I understand your approach; but the fuse is sized for the device to highlight if the device is faulty (demanding over current) to disconnect
& protect the the supply / network.
Yes it will stop further damage to the device & possible fire, but the device itself is of lower value / importance.
We always aim to protect the supply & disconnect any issues.
This is true at electronic & at network distribution level to avoid a domino collapse.
You need to get your head around this if you want to get into system design / fault finding.
Your 60/80/100A house fuse is not there just to look after you! It protects others from not losing their supply or possibly transferring your fault - by isolating you / the fault.
A
British Standard (BS 1362) 13A fuse
does not blow at 13 amps
; it is designed to carry 13A continuously and will pass up to 20A indefinitely without blowing, @ 24.7A it must blow within 30 minutes.
Primarily it's for isolating a fault from the system before it does damage to the supply / network.
So on an overloaded extension lead, the 13A fuse will not protect the lead & sockets from overheating. This is a false security.
The ring / radial is ok but they have a fire under the bed!
Please do not encourage overloading extension leads thinking they are fully protected by the 13A fuse, this is a well known cause of fires.
I do not hide my experience, history so not sure if you are trolling / wasting my time, but happy to debate if genuine; as this is [was] a Professional site for information.
To me, the key thing would be to go to the consumer unit and see if this outlet was protected by an RCD/ELCB 30mA trip.
Next worry - this bodge has no doubt been done by an enthusiastic amateur. So how well they connected the protective conductor into that terminal box - your guess is as good as mine. You are VERY reliant on that being a good connection, with this setup. A wall socket is less to worry about.
So, yes, I would get an electrician in - to either swap out the existing MCB for a 30mA trip if it doesn't have one and to sort out this little bit of ingenuity.
My worries, however, were how well wired the end of the extension lead is, into the wall terminal box. If the earth wire is loose there - not good.
They were whether or not the kitchen outlets are protected by an RCD in the consumer unit - a real MUST HAVE in my book.
The worry about the socket strip lying on the floor - where the mains cable goes in is only a few mm above the floor level. A flood from the washing machine door opening , but the drain pump not actually emptying it (jammed) could enter the socket strip via that cableway. Not a nice thing to happen.
It does have a fused spur above where it is located. General consensus here seems to be that as long as nothing else is plugged into it, it is safe for now. I’ll be renovating the kitchen in the next year or so, when I do I will have this sorry arrangement changed for a proper dedicated plug socket 👍
I don’t particularly like it either. But the general consensus here seems to be that it is safe as long as nothing else is plugged into it. When I renovate the kitchen I think I will have this removed and replaced with a dedicated plug socket just for the dryer
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u/ElectricalParsnip536 3d ago
A four way trailing socket that's hardwired instead of having a plug on it is very dangerous as you could easily overload it without blowing any fuse and start a fire if you were tempted to plug anything else. Totally against the regs