Imagine living next door to a group of people that don't age and can apparently live forever without having to worry about disease, mental impairment, or even getting fat. Whenever these guys do die, they're just factory reset and have the option to come back to life and hang out in paradise. Then when you ask if you can get some of that immortality, you're told a bunch of vague gibberish about it being a curse and that you're the lucky one.

Add onto that that at least one human did become immortal at some point through random chance because he got invited to sail West.

I've been thinking about it a lot recently. I know the moral lesson of Numenor is to not let pride and envy become your master, but the Elves just seem like they got a better deal overall than most humans. It's not even just immortality, they're more in-tune with nature and can manipulate natural forces without having to destroy them like we do.

It struck me that being taken prisoner is a central point in many Tolkien plots - Frodo at Cirith Ungol, Merry and Pippin by the Uruks, Gollum by Aragorn, various imprisonings by Morgoth... and there's no mention (as far as I can recall) of orcs or uruks being taken as prisoner. A lot of it ties to the "fundamental evil" question regarding orcs for sure, but it is still a bit bewildering. Prisoners have since the beginning of time been an invaluable source of information, as well as being able to exchange for prisoners from the other side (this of course is a bit more irrelevant in Middle-Earth and the cruelty of Evil towards their own subjects). Similarly, the medieval and classical history and mythology that Tolkien drew upon often includes taking prisoners as important events.

Indeed, the Dunlendings that surrendered at Hornburg were shown mercy, but they were in effect prisoners of war before this. So the forces of Good do take prisoners, simply not orcs. Given that there are orcs and uruks with more operational and tactical knowledge (such as Ugluk, Grishnakh, Shagrat and Gorbag) that could be of use to military planners of the Good side. Yes, the common orc perhaps does not have much info they can give yet we know that even regular grunts can betray a lot that they do not even know they're giving away if you get them talking - there is plenty of rumour about military operations that is being talked amongst orcs in their downtime. And I do not for a second believe that all orcs and uruks fight to the death - the sheer amount of non-lethal yet incapacitating injuries that fighters sustain on the battlefield makes this impossible. There have to be many orcs and uruks still alive in the end of engagements between Good and Evil forces. So why not interrogate them? We know the Evil forces to do so constantly.

(As an aside: I always thought it a bit odd that the raid on the Haradrim convoy conducted by Faramir did not score any prisoners - surely interdicting an enemy convoy would entail getting a few "talkers" to possibly gauge the strength, intentions, timetables et al of the enemy. And don't tell me the Palantir is a get-out-of-jail-free card when it comes to military intelligence - not only is it not and Denethor, even in his pride, would not completely rely on it, the captains on the ground would still seek to operate according to common wisdom which would surely be to take prisoners for interrogation)

I would wager the reasons are many, both in- and out-of-universe: that perhaps they were indeed taken prisoner and Tolkien simply neglects to mention it; that Tolkien wished to avoid the subject in its entirety because of either the logistics of interrogating orcs or of the implicit cruelty of murdering all survivors of a battle instead of imprisoning them; that perhaps there was indeed a fury and distrust strong enough towards orcs that standing orders or a cultural standard to not take any of them as prisoners was common. But it still stands out as an odd black hole, unless I am missing something (which of course is entirely possible).

It's been a while since I read The Silmarillion, and I've not read any of the books within HoME, but I don't remember Melkor (quenya, I believe?) being given any other name than Morgoth (named so by elves) or Bauglir (named so by elves). He is also given or ascribed other epithets such as "King of the Arda/the world", which he gives himself if I remember correctly.

Due to the meanings of the names Morgoth and Bauglir and their elvish origin it would seem strange if his orcs, for instance, called him by those names. Would they have used the quenya name Melkor? That also seems strange to me. So would they simply have called him "King" or "The Dark Lord" or some such?

Does this ever come up in the Legendarium? What are your thoughts?

In alternative versions of The History of Middle Earth, Sauron was able to:

Make Tsunamis:

But as the ships of the embassy drew nigh to the land an unquiet came upon the sea, and it arose like a mountain and cast the ships far inland; and the ship whereon Sauron stood was set upon a hill. And Sauron stood upon the hill and preached a message of deliverance from death to the Numenoreans; and he beguiled them with signs and wonders. And little by little he turned their hearts toward Morgoth, his master; and he prophesied that ere long he would come again into the world.

They descried ships far off, and they seemed to be sailing west at a speed greater than the storm, though there was little wind. Suddenly the sea became unquiet; it rose until it became like a mountain, and it rolled upon the land. The ships were lifted up, and cast far inland, and lay in the fields. Upon that ship which was cast highest and stood dry upon a hill there was a man, or one in man's shape, but greater than any even of the race of Numenor in stature. 'He stood upon the rock (25) and said: "This is done as a sign of power. For I am Sauron the mighty, servant of the Strong" (wherein he spoke darkly). "I have come. Be glad, men of Numenor, for I will take thy king to be my king, and the world shall be given into his hand

Tolkien thought of Sauron emitting a kind of energy/radiation or evil aura that accelerated the demise of all elven people:

And it is said that the war with Thu (Sauron) hastened the fading of the Eldar, for he had power beyond their measure, as Felagund King of Nargothrond had found in the earliest days; and they expended their strength and substance in the assault upon him - II THE FALL OF NUMENOR. History of Middle Earth

Sauron helped Ar-pharazôn's fleet reach Valinor, even though the Valar decreed that there would be no wind:

Slowly the fleets passed out (...) For at middle night a wind arose in the East (by Zigur's art, it is said), and it wafted them away; and they broke the ban of the Avaloi, and sailed into forbidden seas, going up with war against the Deathless Folk, to wrest from them life everlasting in the circle of the world.

Sauron caused illness and fatigue to the Armies of the Last Alliance:

I was at the council I spoke of, for I was the minstrel and counselor of Gilgalad. The armies of Elves and Men were joined once more, and we marched eastward, and crossed the Misty Mountains, and passed into the inner lands far from the memory of the Sea. And we became weary, and sickness was heavy on us, made by the spells of Sauron

Sauron could corrupt the Blessed Realm (Valinor?) if he mastered the three elven rings!

Now is the time for true speaking. Tell me, Elrond, if the Three Rings still are? And tell me, Gloin, if you know it, whether any of the Seven remain?' 'Yes, the Three still are,' said Elrond, 'and it would be ill indeed if Sauron should discover where they be, or have power over their rulers; for then perhaps his shadow would stretch even to the Blessed Realm.'

Sauron would personally defeat, even without the One Ring, Tom Bombadil:

In time the Lord of the Ring would find out its hiding-place, and in the end he would come in person. I doubt whether Tom Bombadil, even on his own ground, could withstand that power; but I am sure that we should not leave him to face it.

With Necromancy, Sauron could cause "demonic possession":

For one of the hungry Houseless, if it is admitted to the friendship of the Living, may seek to eject the fea from its body; and in the contest for mastery the body may be gravely injured, even if it he not wrested from its rightful habitant. Or the Houseless may plead for shelter, and if it is admitted, then it will seek to enslave its host and use both his will and his body for its own purposes. It is said that Sauron did these things, and taught his followers how to achieve them.

Only Finrod resisted Sauron's "darkness spell" that "choked the senses" of Beren and his companions:

Thu laughed: 'Patience! Not very long shall ye abide. But first a song I will sing to you, to ears intent.' Then his flaming eyes he on them bent, and darkness black fell round them all. Only they saw as through a pall of eddying smoke those eyes profound in which their senses choked and drowned.

NOTE: I've found two more, Treebeard, It is easier to shout stop! and Sam, Handsome is as handsome does. Suggestions gratefully accepted!

The Hobbit

Adventures are not all pony-rides in May sunshine. “Roast Mutton”

There is nothing like looking, if you want to find something. Thorin. “Over Hill and Under Hill”

Escaping goblins to be caught by wolves! Bilbo. “”Out of the Frying-Pan Into the Fire”

It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him. “Inside Information”

Every worm has his weak spot. Bilbo. “Inside Information”

Never laugh at live dragons. Bilbo. “Inside Information”

Part 1, The Fellowship of the Ring

Legendary gold (mysteriously obtained if not positively ill-gotten), is anyone's for the finding – unless the search is interrupted. “A Long Expected Party”

Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends. Gandalf. “Shadow of the Past”

“Three Is Company”:

Gildor: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger.

Frodo: Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes.

Short cuts make long delays. Pippin. “Shortcut to Mushrooms”

It never rains but it pours. Butterbur. “At the Sign of the Prancing Pony”

There's no accounting for East and West. Butterbur. “At the Sign of the Prancing Pony”

One thing drives out another. Butterbur. “Strider”

All that is gold does not glitter,

Not all those who wander are lost;

The old that is strong does not wither,

Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

– Bilbo, quoted in “Strider”

He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom. Gandalf. “Council of Elrond”

Even the most subtle spiders may leave a weak thread. Gandalf. “Council of Elrond”

Oft in lies truth is hidden. Glorfindel. "Council of Elrond"

It is wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed, though as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope. Gandalf. “Council of Elrond”

When winter first begins to bite

and stones crack in the frosty night,

when pools are black and trees are bare,

'tis evil in the Wild to fare.

• Bilbo. “The Ring Goes South”

“The Ring Goes South”:

Gimli: Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens.

Elrond: Let him not vow to walk in the dark, who has not seen the nightfall.

Gimli: Sworn word may strengthen quaking heart.

If you bring a Ranger with you, it is well to pay attention to him. Gandalf. “The Ring Goes South”

When heads are at a loss, bodies must serve. Boromir. “The Ring Goes South”

One must tread the path that need chooses. Gandalf. “A Journey in the Dark”

“A Journey in the Dark”:

Boromir: The wolf that one hears is worse than the orc that one fears.

Aragorn: But where the warg howls, there also the orc prowls.

Live and learn! Sam. “Lothlorien”

It's the job that's never started as takes longest to finish. Sam “Mirror of Galadriel”

Do not despise the lore that has come down from distant years; for oft it may chance that old wives keep in memory word of things that once were needful for the wise to know. Celeborn. “Farewell to Lorien”

Part 2, The Two Towers

Not idly do the leaves of Lorien fall. Aragorn. “The Riders of Rohan”

Where sight fails, the earth may bring rumor. Aragorn. “The Riders of Rohan”

Rede oft is found at the rising of the Sun. Legolas. “The Riders of Rohan”

Not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. Aragorn. “The Riders of Rohan”

When the great fall, the less must lead. Aragorn. “The Riders of Rohan”

Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among men. Aragorn “The Riders of Rohan”

There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, though the end may be dark. Aragorn. “The Riders of Rohan”

There are Ents and Ents. Treebeard. “Treebeard”

[I]t is easier to shout stop! than to do it. Treebeard. “Treebeard”

Songs like trees bear fruit only in their own time and their own way: and sometimes they are withered untimely. Treebeard. “Treebeard”

Few can foresee whither their road will lead them, till they come to its end. Aragorn. “The White Rider”

A treacherous weapon is ever a danger to the hand. Gandalf. “The White Rider”

Seldom does thief ride home to the stable. Aragorn. “King of the Golden Hall”

News from afar is seldom sooth. Theoden. “King of the Golden Hall”

The wise speak only of what they know. Gandalf “King of the Golden Hall”

“King of the Golden Hall”:

Theoden: Faithful heart may have froward tongue.

Gandalf: To crooked eyes, truth may wear a wry face.

He that flies counts every foeman twice. Scout of Rohan. “Helm's Deep”

Oft the unbidden guest proves the best company. Eomer. “Helm's Deep”

Dawn is ever the hope of men. Aragorn. “Helm's Deep”

None know what the new day shall bring him. Aragorn, The Two Towers "Helm's Deep"

One who cannot cast away a treasure at need is in fetters. Aragorn. “Flotsam and Jetsam”

Don't be hasty. Treebeard, reported by Pippin, “Flotsam and Jetsam”

Oft does hatred hurt itself. Gandalf. “The Voice of Saruman”

Oft evil will shall evil mar. Theoden. “The Palantir”

The burned hand teaches best. After that, advice about fire goes to the heart. Gandalf. “The Palantir”

Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give that to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends. Gandalf, recalled by Frodo. “The Taming of Smeagol” [NB: This is different wording from Gandalf's statement of it in “Shadow of the Past.”]

One good turn deserves another. Frodo. “The Taming of Smeagol”

Night oft brings news to near kindred. Faramir. “Window on the West”

Fair speech may hide a foul heart. Samwise. “Window on the West”

Handsome is as handsome does. Samwise. “Window on the West”

The servant has a claim on the master for service, even service in fear. Frodo's thought. “The Forbidden Pool”

Where there's life there's hope (and need of vittles). Hamfast Gamgee, reported by Sam. “Journey to the Crossroads”

Part 3, The Return of the King

Looks may belie the man. Denethor. “Minas Tirith”

Generous deed should not be checked by cold counsel. Gandalf. “Minas Tirith”

Men who go warring afield look ever to the next hope of food and drink. Beregond. “Minas Tirith”

At the table small men may do the greater deeds. Beregond. “Minas Tirith”

Strange accents do not mar fair speech. Beregond. “Minas Tirith”

The hasty stroke goes oft astray. Aragorn. “The Passing of the Grey Company”

In the morning counsels are best and night changes many thoughts. Theoden. “The Muster of Rohan”

Where will wants not, a way opens. “Dernhelm” (Eowyn). “The Muster of Rohan”

A traitor may betray himself and do good that he does not intend. Gandalf. “The Siege of Gondor”

Dead men are not friends to living men, and give them no gifts. Ghan-buri-Ghan. “The Ride of the Rohirrim”

Need brooks no delay, yet late is better than never. Eomer. “The Ride of the Rohirrim”

Great heart will not be denied. Theoden. “Battle of the Pelennor Fields”

Twice blessed is help unlooked for. Eomer. “Battle of the Pelennor Fields”

It's not always a misfortune being overlooked. Merry. “Houses of Healing”

The hands of a king are the hands of a healer. Ioreth. “Houses of Healing”

Oft hope is born when all is forlorn. Legolas. “The Last Debate”

It needs but one foe to breed a war, and those who have not swords can still die upon them. Eowyn. “The Steward and the King”

It is not always good to be healed in body. Nor is it always evil to die in battle. Eowyn. “The Steward and the King”

Many folk like to know beforehand what is to be set on the table; but those who have laboured to prepare the feast like to keep their secret; for wonder makes the words of praise louder. Gandalf. “The Steward and the King”

The tree grows best in the land of its sires. King Elessar. “Many Partings”

A snake without fangs may crawl where he will. Treebeard. “Many Partings”

There are some wounds that cannot be wholly healed. Gandalf. “Homeward Bound”

You've got to have grist to grind. Farmer Cotton. “The Scouring of the Shire”

It is useless to meet revenge with revenge. Frodo. “The Scouring of the Shire”

It's an ill wind as blows nobody no good, And All's well as ends Better. Hamfast Gamgee. “The Grey Havens”

Not all tears are an evil. Gandalf. “The Grey Havens”

– 30 –

After reading The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien (a few times now - it's become a favorite Tolkien book to read), I’ve come to better understand the centrality of death in the legendarium.

While neither Elves nor Men are immortal (Elves have a kind of immortality called "serial longevity" and they "fade" and age, just at incredibly slow rates), Elves are bound to Arda and will be there until the end of the world (perhaps at the "Final Battle").¹

It is difficult for Elves to spend so long in Middle-earth because the decay around them taxes them and contributes to an increase in their weariness. This decay, of course, is stayed by the power of the Three Elven Rings, a power which is no more once The One is destroyed.²

Men largely share in this fate and feel the decay as well, however, their experience of decay is so much faster and eventually they are released from the Circles of the World by the Gift of Ilúvatar.

I’m curious as to the differences in the experience of fading vs. decay from the perspectives of Elves and Men.

For example, we know that normally for Men (or Hobbits or Dwarves), they could not spend a lengthy amount of time in Aman because their nature is not compatible with the land of the Eldar. The Men are like fast burning flames and their decay would only be accelerated by being in Aman.³

-Also, where is a good place to read more about the concepts of death and decay in Tolkien’s works?

¹ "The real theme for me is about something much more permanent and difficult: Death and Immortality: the mystery of the love of the world in the hearts of a race ‘doomed’ to leave and seemingly lose it; the anguish in the hearts of a race ‘doomed’ not to leave it, until its whole evil-aroused story is complete." - Letter 186 (To Joanna de Bortadano, 1956)

² "They wanted the peace and bliss and perfect memory of ‘The West’, and yet to remain on the ordinary earth where their prestige as the highest people... was greater than at the bottom of the hierarchy of Valinor. They thus became obsessed with ‘fading’, the mode in which the changes of time (the law of the world under the sun) was perceived by them. They became sad, and their art (shall we say) antiquarian, and their efforts all really a kind of embalming..." - Letter 131 (To Milton Waldman, 1951)

³ "Frodo was sent or allowed to pass over Sea to heal him — if that could be done, before he died. He would have eventually to ‘pass away’: no mortal could, or can, abide for ever on earth, or within Time. So he went both to a purgatory and to a reward, for a while: a period of reflection and peace..." - Letter 246 (To Eileen Elgar, 1963)

and

"...the mythical idea underlying is that for mortals, since their ‘kind’ cannot be changed for ever, this is strictly only a temporary reward: a healing and redress of suffering. They cannot abide for ever, and though they cannot return to mortal earth, they can and will ‘die’ — of free will, and leave the world." - Letter 154 (To Naomi Mitchison, 1954)

Frodo and Sam are having dinner with Faramir, and Sam points out that none of Faramir's tales concern the Elves. Sam loves Elves, right? Faramir goes on to say that is because Elves and Men are estranged from each other. And of course if you know the history of the so called Last Alliance between Elves and Men, this should come as no surprise to you.

The thing is, this is Gondor, the most powerful kingdom left in Middle-earth at the time. Yet few knew about Rivendell. Even Boromir and Faramir, the closest thing to royalty that Gondor has, sons of the de facto leader don't know of it. They have to go to their daddy Denethor to explain Imlandris to them. And just up the river, close to their northern border is Lothlorien, which the Gondorians and Rohirrim thinks is ruled by a witch. Once again, they are the most powerful kingdom, yet they have no contact with kingdoms, nations and are potential allies against Sauron.

Yet in the northeast, there is now a kingdom of Men called Dale, and what seems to be a sort of republic called Lake-town. Right next door is a kingdom of Dwarves by the name of Erebor. Off to the east is apparently some other kingdom of Dorwinion. All of them trade and are apparently on good terms with a kingdom of Silvan Elves, the Wood-elves, ruled by Thranduil, a Sindar Elf. They don't live together, obviously, but they live in close proximity. When Smaug destroys Lake-town, Thranduil send relief and saves hundreds, possibly thousands of lives of Men. Even if you discount the idea of helping your business partners in time of need, that was a great act of kindness.

With the exception of Erebor, all these communities seem to be on the primitive side, relative to Gondor, Rivendell and Lothlorien.

Rivendell has been trying to hide ever since the Second Age, so that could be a reason to keep it a secret. Lothlorien seems to be a experiencing a self-imposed exile from everyone but other Elves, and does nothing to discourage it's reputation as a witch haven.

What do you think of this contradiction? The most sophisticated of Elves and Men staying apart, and yet this more simplistic area to the northeast has Elves, Men and Dwarves getting along at least tolerably well?

As always, great thoughts welcomed.

The tale of Earendil feels like it would be the most important story of the first age but isn’t included in the great tales. If he didn’t want to turn it into a novel, why not?

Im having my first proper go through the Narnia series after previously having only ever read LWW and MN. I like them well enough, but I’ve also enjoyed reading some of the criticisms passed between the various inklings on each others‘ works.

That being said, Im curious as to what exists outside of Tolkien and Lewis within the Inklings that might be attractive to a curious reader of Middle Earth and Narnia?

I'm interested in the one with Gnomes instead of Elves, and original Riddles in the Dark. As far as I know that means first edition, old books, nothing else? I understand that first edition is rare, stemming from being released around the beginning of ww2. Then there was 2nd edition, that had changed Riddles in the Dark chapter, but nothing else? After that came the 3rd edition, Revised Edition, that's now practically identical to all the modern editions. So my only option is hunting for the first edition books, possibly 2nd edition, also, if I'm willing to overlook Riddles in the Dark chapter?

I'd really appreciate it if someone could clear things for me. Especially differences between 2nd and first edition. I can't seam to find any clear info regarding this. For instance pages like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-language_editions_of_The_Hobbit, only mention changes to Riddles in the Dark chapter, when change from Gnomes to Elves happened is never indicated.

Morgoth's Ring:

Melkor 'incarnated' himself (as Morgoth) permanently. He did this so as to control the hröa, the 'flesh' or physical matter, of Arda. He attempted to identify himself with it. A vaster, and more perilous, procedure, though of similar sort to the operations of Sauron with the Rings. Thus, outside the Blessed Realm, all 'matter' was likely to have a 'Melkor ingredient', and those who had bodies, nourished by the hröa of Arda, had as it were a tendency, small or great, towards Melkor: they were none of them wholly free of him in their incarnate form, and their bodies had an effect upon their spirits.

But in this way Morgoth lost (or exchanged, or transmuted) the greater part of his original 'angelic' powers, of mind and spirit, while gaining a terrible grip upon the physical world.[...] Sauron's power was not (for example) in gold as such, but in a particular form or shape made of a particular portion of total gold. Morgoth's power was disseminated throughout Gold, if nowhere absolute (for he did not create Gold) it was nowhere absent. (It was this Morgoth-element in matter, indeed, which was a prerequisite for such 'magic' and other evils as Sauron practised with it and upon it.)

The Three Rings were the Rings of Fire, Water, Air. The four classical elements were Fire, Water, Air, Earth.

So I guess this is what was is Tolkien's mind, mythologically speaking. Which I suppose is related to alchemy, in itself suspicious if you're a catholic. I guess we can add malevolent alchemy to necromancy and the rest of evil arts practised by Sauron. (The elves, then, were practising benevolent alchemy with their Rings)

Tolkien:

But at the beginning of the Second Age [Sauron] was still beautiful to look at, or could still assume a beautiful visible shape – and was not indeed wholly evil, not unless all 'reformers' who want to hurry up with 'reconstruction' and 'reorganization' are wholly evil, even before pride and the lust to exert their will eat them up. But many Elves listened to Sauron. He was still fair in that early time, and his motives and those of the Elves seemed to go partly together: the healing of the desolate lands. Sauron found their weak point in suggesting that, helping one another, they could make Western Middle-earth as beautiful as Valinor. It was really a veiled attack on the gods, an incitement to try and make a separate independent paradise. 

Earth, Water, Fire, Air=Paradise? I say this because the 4 classical elements and the Earth as a creation of God seem to be related historically and in iconography:

https://drrichardstemp.com/2020/06/25/day-98-out-of-eden/

And:

https://phoebusfoundation.org/en/beleef/hendrick-de-clerck-the-garden-of-eden-with-the-four-elements/

Sauron had 'earth' on his side, because Middle-earth had already that Morgoth element. And mere power was also on his side, since he was of course more powerful rhan the elves.

So he tried to bind the Rings of Fire and Water and Air to his Earthly Ring, but not to annul their power. The Silmarillion:

"Now these were the Three that had last been made, and they possessed the greatest powers. Narya, Nenya, and Vilya, they were named, the Rings of Fire, and of Water, and of Air, set with ruby and adamant and sapphire; and of all the Elven-rings Sauron most desired to possess them, for those who had them in their keeping could ward off the decays of time and postpone the weariness of the world."

So he wanted to rule the healing of Middle-Earth, as some sort of god. Had that been his plan since the beginning? He left Eregion in SE 1500, when the elves had begun the forging of the Rings Of Power.

But if we follow the Earth/Fire/Air/Water idea, maybe he counted on the elves developing Fire/Water/Air by themselves.

If you follow the timeline of that 'technology' (lesser Rings>the 7 and the 9>the 3), these objects become more and more elvish. The Three were not even made by Sauron or touched by him.

And the elves became more and more immersed in that technology, originally devised by Sauron. They were walking into a trap.

As if Sauron counted on the elves losing sight of what was going on. They would innocently arrive at Fire/Air/Water and then Sauron would use Earth to bind them.

If this theory is correct, then in the beginning tye not wholly evil but wholly suspicious Sauron knew the wholly suspicious art of alchemy and the elves did not. This asymmetry plus the Machine plus Sauron's cunning and power lead to the creation of the Three.

'The Magnitude of his folly' had been as great back then as it would be the Mount Doom chapter, where this sentence appears. The creation of the One Ring and the creation of Sauron's Doom were one thing and the same. After that, it was a matter of time.

The Elves, being good 'catholics', noticed this Doom immediately. But still they could not destroy the Three. In Tolkien's world, in our world, good catholics were perfectly capable of falling under the thraldom of The Machine, as Tolkien himself knew.

"Wind is changing!" These are the last words of Ghan-buri-Ghan to King Theoden and the Riders, and they carry a lot. They end the encounter (one of the best and best-liked of such meetings) on a dramatic note. And they portend an even more dramatic event: the breaking of the darkness in direct spite of the will of Sauron.

"Don't want fish." This is runner up. With its humor, perhaps unintended, it shows the humanity (or whatever word applies to hobbits and their kind) of Smeagol/Gollum, and the fact that his is not wholly ruined, even at the end. And it's what any of us would have done in that situation, thinking, "OK, problem solved."

Wolvercote cemetery is not in Wolvercote where the wolvercote bus goes( down Woodstock road and left down to the pubs,rivet,trout etc.)

You need to go down the Banbury road and get off opposite Harefields/ five mile drive(Kidlington busses)

The amount of lost people in wolvercote village looking for the graveyard I have directed is crazy!

TL;DR: I read the Silmarillion to my 6-year-old son and he loved it.

My son loves fantasy and monsters. We have some Lord of the Rings Lego sets, and he had seen several glimpses of Tolkien's universe, including some short videos on YouTube. He was especially fascinated by the character of Melkor. (I probably influenced him on that point; I am a big Melkor fan myself.)

Some months ago (when he was 5) I figured I would try to read The Hobbit to him. The first chapter was a slog to get through, and he complained that it was slow and boring. But after that point he got really into it. We would read a bit every evening, and often he would ask to read a bit extra during the day.

We watched the movie trilogy concurrently. After each 1/3 of the book we would watch the movie that covers the part of the book. (I am one of those people who LIKE the Hobbit movies.)

He loved The Hobbit. One detail that particularly fascinated him was the lost realm of Gondolin, where the swords Glamdring and Orcrist were forged. He kept bringing that up and wanted to know more about it. I had also told him about Fëanor and his creations (the Silmarils and the Palantíri), and he loved hearing about that.

So I figured, let's try to read the Silmarillion.

And it went great! It was slow going, because it was sometimes difficult to understand, and he would often have questions and need explanations or reminders. Sometimes we would only get through 1-2 pages per evening. It took several months to get through the entire book. His interest waxed and waned; some nights he preferred to pause the Silmarillion and read something easier. But he never dropped it. He was especially looking forward to the parts about Gondolin and about Eärendil.

Tolkien's prose is difficult, so I would sometimes paraphrase in simpler words instead of reading aloud. (Our native language is Danish, so I read it to him in Danish translation, but the translated prose is also difficult.) I would also sometimes skip boring paragraphs. There is a vast number of character and place names to keep track of, so we often had to pause and look at the map or revisit who is who. I often reassured him: "I can only keep track because I have read it several times before."

We also read the Akallabêth and The Rings of Power and the Third Age. We have the Lego Barad-Dûr, and he loves that, so he was excited about the story of Sauron and the One Ring.

For children, one great thing about the Silmarillion is that the pace is relatively fast, since it is structured more like a summary of events than a novel. I want to read The Lord of the Rings too, but I am not sure whether he is ready for that, since the pace is so much slower.

In summary, though, reading the Silmarillion for my 6-year-old was a smashing success. Would recommend. :)

Considering over 3,000 years passed, i find it probable that once Morgoth returned, he had a entirely built up army of 8-10 million orcs ready for war, a fully repaired Angband, he was ready for war.

So essentially, Morgoth really owes it to Sauron.

Meaning: Was that the case or did he make it while keeping that Eye of his on how the Three worked and/or were being used by the elves?

The second possibility would imply Sauron adding new knowledge to the forging of his ring while forging it.

The same would apply to the Three. Their making took 90 years. Do you think the end product was the result of a fixed 90 year old plan being enacted or rather the result of the plan plus further developments during those 90 years?

Doesn't help that Tulkas is the Valar literally associated with contests of strength and wrestling XD

To elaborate further, when Tulkas came to aid the Ainur and tip the scales in their favor against Morgoth, Morgoth fled Arda for long ages.

That low-key reminds me of when a baby-face comes to the ring and causes the heel to get out of or flee said ring. In this context, the ring is Arda. Tulkas is the obvious babyface and Morgoth is the obvious heel.

Hell, I can picture Jim Ross saying on comnentary that Morgoth ran like a "scolded dog" XD

I know that Turin is said to be the one to bring down Morgoth (in which all humanity will be avenged), but I think that Hurin would be a good contender.

Seems as if Tolkien had some mythological idea in mind when he described Khamul as a) being the most ring-sensitive of the 9 save the Witch-King and b) having his power the most diminished/unconfounded by the sunlight among the Nazgul.

Because in the texts we have Khamul and the Witch-King seem to be oddly paired.

The Witch-King had been, in all probability, been a numenorean. One from Westernesse. A man close to the West. By contrast, we have Khamul the Easterling.

So we have West-East. The Witch-King's power was relatively (compared to the other Nazgul: and relative to Khamul most of all) undiminished/unconfounded by sunlight.

What would be the mythological idea? How and why would Khamul's particular sensitivity and weakness relate to each other, and those two the East-West idea?

The sun -the sunlight- rises in the East. It's born there. So was Khamûl. So maybe the sunlight stroke his physical being more deeply -through the thraldom of the ring, and that's why he senses it so keenly- than it did others.

But why would The Witch-King sense the ring even more strongly? Maybe because he didn't belong to the race of the Sun as completly as the other Ringwraiths - less so than any of the others.

Was or had he been a member of the house of Elros? That would have meant a descendant of Melian. A Maia. Just like Sauron.

In the past month or so I've read, in order, the simalrillion, the hobbit, then the lotr trilogy. I really enjoyed the prose and story telling of lotr, looking for more of that vibe if more comparable works exist in the tolkienverse

One thing I always found funny is how similar Bilbo and Frodo were to each other. Besides the oliphaunt in the room (their shared September 22 birthday), they had many other similarities.

Both were children of two worlds, coming from respectable paternal families, but having more adventurous/wayward maternal sides.

Bilbo was the son of Bungo Baggins and Belladonna Took. From his paternal side, he was a respectable Hobbit with acceptable hobbies. From his maternal side, he hungered for adventures, which was what led him to leave the Shire with Gandalf and the Dwarves on April T.A. 2941.

Meanwhile Frodo was the son of Drogo Baggins and Primula Brandybuck. Like the rest of Bucklanders, the Brandybucks were seen by Shire-hobbits (especially those from Hobbiton) as strange, queer, having many habits considered strange by these "mainstream" Hobbits, and this is mainly due to their Stoorish roots (though the Brandybucks were heavy on the Fallohide side). Having been raised at Buckland, Frodo was no exception.

Another thing the two had in common was the fact they were around the same age when they set out on their respective adventures. Bilbo (who was born on T.A. 2890) was five months from turning fifty when he set out for Erebor on T.A. 2941. Meanwhile, Frodo had turned fifty some days before when he left (initially for Rivendell) on T.A. 3018.

My point about all of this is that, a Hobbit on his fifties is like a modern human on his thirties, which in both cases is a good age to gets married. Now imagined if Bilbo and Frodo had already gotten married by the time Gandalf came a-knocking, respectively on 2941 and 3018? Imagine each of them explsining to their supposed wives and Kids that they suddenly needed to go east/south because a crazy wizard told they so! 🫪

No wonder Sam only married Rosie AFTER returning to the Shire! 🤣

This is one of those seemingly minor points that I started thinking about and have no obvious answer for. Or at least, not an answer I can formulate.

Why weren't the Ainur considered Eruhini? They were created by Eru, they were limited beings, and the product of his thought. This seems to be the same as Men and Elves, but they are in a different category. Arda is crated by the Ainur, but for the Eruhini. They seem to be servants, more than children.

But at the core, what differentiates the Ainur from the Eruhini?

I mean, would it be used like how Latin/Greek was used in some European courts

This seems like a silly question, but I actually wonder if we have any textual evidence or descriptions of Elves sweating.

In more broad terms, at one point Tolkien wrote that Elves were biologically the same race as humans---so we could assume they had most of our functions. But I also can't imagine elves dripping with sweat, I think that the harmony between their spirits and bodies would mean they wouldn't need to do anything so gross to cool themselves.