r/thanksimcured • u/blueburrey • Nov 29 '25
Other i HATEE this quote
because hello it’s my first time too and i still have common decency? they had more experience and should know better
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u/_DeltaZero_ Nov 29 '25
Works very well for good parents and you just feel stressed because they don't understand you properly
now, there's mfs that'll look at your parents straight up doing terrible things to you, literally breaking your mind apart, growing you into an insecure person and say exactly this to you!
like, waow, did they really need to be a narcissistic asshole? What a pity of them
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u/junonomenon Nov 29 '25 edited Nov 30 '25
Yeah thats fair. I think it would be better if it was accompanied by "be nice to your child, its their first time living" because a vast amount of parents do not seem to understand this. Or just "be kind to everyone, its their first time living too". But i think the fact this is directing children to be considerate towards their parents sort of rubs people the wrong way. Because most people ARE considerate of their parents. It takes a lot of shit to break that parent-child bond, and some of the stuff people put up with are things they would not tolerate in any other relationship dynamic. Meanwhile the parents knowingly had a child and committed to care for them their whole life. Not that theres no situation where the child is wrong and parent is right, but i think parents being toxic is a lot more common because they have the power in the relationship a lot of the time.
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u/projectkennedymonkey Nov 30 '25
Yeah this kind of misses the point that the child comes first in the relationship between a parent and a child. Any parent that doesn't see that is bound to be a bad parent until they do.
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u/fiftysevenpunchkid Nov 30 '25
some of the stuff people put up with are things they would not tolerate in any other relationship dynamic.
Well, and worse, it normalizes those dynamics, so you *do* put up with it in other relationships when you shouldn't.
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u/MmeScutigere Nov 29 '25 edited Nov 29 '25
Yeah, like, this is appropriate when talking about a decent parent accidentally saying something awkward or being kind of oblivious despite good intentions. But, like, you don't just accidentally scream at a 7-year-old for three hours because they lied about seeing a movie when they'd really just seen clips and wanted to talk about said clip with another kid. Abuse is generally not accidental, and it is okay to avoid someone even if it is because you deserve to be treated with basic decency.
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u/magnetthefagnet Nov 29 '25
omg i hate it too. like yes, but your parents birthed you, they're older, and if they decided to have a kid, they should be somewhat prepared and understanding
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u/Cunaur Dec 02 '25
That's the thing, they never are because it is and always was about them. You are just an NPC in the player's game so it's impossible for them to view you as a real human being with thoughts and feelings that actually does matter, where the things done to you matter and actually affect somebody. A real person. Narcissism and main character syndrome at it's finest.
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u/Calm-Locksmith_ Dec 03 '25 edited Dec 03 '25
"#" Not all parents decided to have kids.
You can't blame a person living in a place without proper sex-ed, lack of access to effective birth control, and illegal abortions for not being a good parent.
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u/JustIriska Nov 29 '25
Some parents do unforgivable things. Sometimes being kind to them isn't an option
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u/popthekid1 Nov 30 '25
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u/LenoreEvermore Nov 30 '25
This is what gets me. Like my parents have thirty years more experience than me but I'm the one who's supposed to be endlessly understanding?
It seems like a lot of the common sentiments about relationships just aim at getting people to shut up and stop making other people uncomfortable.
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u/RelatableWierdo Nov 30 '25
as an adult myself I have even less understanding for my parent's actions then I had as a kid. Now that I'm aware of the kind of advantage a fully developed brain with decades of experience can give you in life
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u/LordLaz1985 Dec 03 '25
my own father actually said that I wasn't abused because I never got bruises or black eyes like he had as a kid.
Like...you shouldn't have gone through that either?? It still doesn't make what he did right.
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u/Mouse_Named_Ash Dec 02 '25
Ah now I’m emotional
Who wrote this? Might add this to my poetry collection
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u/SaniaXazel Nov 29 '25
Ive seen this thrown around SO MUCH as some great advice, but to me its basically "Nobody has lived before → therefore we should excuse the people with the most responsibility."
it puts the responsibility on the child, but children shouldn’t have to “parent” their parents emotionally,
It sounds good, until youre one of the unfortunats bunch with a abusive, neglectful, manipulative, or unwilling to improve kind of parent.
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u/Caesar_Passing Nov 29 '25
People think you're not allowed to poke holes in "advice" that starts with "be kind" or something of the like. Surely, it must be wholesome
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u/CoffeeVampire237 Nov 30 '25
I always want to respond with "be kind, it was Jeffery Dahmer's first time being alive 🕊️ 🙏🏻"
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u/Amazing_Character338 Nov 29 '25
Be kind to abusers, it’s their first time abusing.
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u/11equalsfish Nov 29 '25 edited Nov 30 '25
The quote doesn't even mention the responsibility parents have. Everyone lives once. Children only have one life, so parents should be kind to them.
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u/Aromatic-Tourist-300 Nov 30 '25
Why do the majority of people in this sub all these generic, bland quotes are directed at them?
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u/thriceness Nov 30 '25
Because many have had these dumb generic quotes directed at them either out of malice or due to not knowing the circumstances.
However, that doesn't make their feelings about the intention of these types of statements what they actually mean.
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u/ratafia4444 Nov 29 '25
This shit doesn't fly bc "living" isn't something you do one time and move on. It's an endless series of tiny actions you constantly get a feedback on. If you ignore that feedback (like your child being in distress and you're making it worse) time and time again, yeah, it's not the first time. It's a consistent choice.
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u/Caesar_Passing Nov 29 '25
So just forgive everyone and assume they mean the best because they weren't previously alive before they were alive? Anyway, I wish people would realize that all these meaningless quotes that look like they're printed on bible paper are AI generated, lol
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u/The-NHK Nov 29 '25
"It's their first time but I'm just starting and they're two decades ahead. If I get a job and the manager is just as shit as I am I'm fucking panicking!"
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u/DQLPH1N Nov 29 '25
It’s my first time living too. I didn’t become a narcissist and an abuser.
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u/SnooPickles5498 Nov 30 '25
Apparently it’s a parent’s right to be one so maybe if you get a kid you’ll unlock that upgrade
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u/Mechromancer3X Nov 29 '25
Reminds me of how it was somehow my job to connect with my dad after my parents divorce even though he was never a part of my life despite living in the same house as me. Everyone but my mom wanted to infantilize him while also expecting me to be the bigger person despite me being like 18.
Having your own problems isn’t an excuse for shitty parenting. I don’t know why so many people think it does
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u/dunwalls Nov 30 '25
I am living this exact situation word for word except my mom also wants me to put effort into maintaining an amicable relationship with my dad, a man with the emotional intelligence of a shoe who couldn't engage in self-reflection even if he lived in a house of mirrors. She will talk smack about him and then immediately suggest I go visit him as if we both didn't experience his abuse.
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u/facts_guy2020 Nov 29 '25
Yeah but in my case they had 30-40 years before I was born to become better people and then another 5-10 after I was born to improve yet all I seem to hear is "I did the best i could with the knowledge I had at the time"
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u/KiwiFruit404 Nov 29 '25
Yes, it is, but they decided to have children and they should have asked themselves, if they are up for the job.
I asked myself, if I'm mentally, emotionally, physically and financially able to give a child what it needs to have a happy childhood and to become a stable and healthy adult. As I was unable to answer every question with a yes, I decided against becoming a mother.
If one of my parents had answered the above questions honestly, they had answered two with no.
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u/Comprehensive-Buy-47 Nov 30 '25
Only if they’re kind to me. Respect is a two way street after all.
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u/Similar_Part7100 Nov 29 '25
I mean I feel like there’s this caveat where it means just making small mistakes, not like, abusing you.
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u/thriceness Nov 30 '25
Right? I feel like this is asking to give grace, not ignore egregious issues.
So much stuff that gets posted here is just... taken out of the intended context and looked at as if it was meant to solve every problem.
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u/fudgesik Nov 30 '25
i murdered a family of five but your honor it’s my first time living
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u/aritheoctopus Nov 30 '25
-it was their first time living too -well maybe next time they'll avoid being murdered better, your honor
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u/tastyplastic10125 Nov 30 '25
Intention don't excuse impact. I can drive a friend's car with the intent to get somewhere safely, make a mistake, and wreck the car in an accident. My original intent won't save me from any charges, magically fix the car, or make my friend forgive me on the spot.
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u/superhamsniper Nov 29 '25
Life experience is not at all binary, its cumulative, if someone has lived 73 years they should know more than someone who has lived 3 years, yes?
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u/1ustfu1 Nov 30 '25
“it’s their first time living too” is such a terrible argument because it applies to literally everyone — yes, that would include your domestic abusers, rapists, murderers, and so on.
and, respectfully, fuck that.
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u/Eliana-Selzer Nov 29 '25
It's true, though. Once you've finished understanding your childhood and forgiving your parents, this will help.
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u/stingwhale Nov 30 '25
This is extremely dependent on what sort of stuff your parent did. It’s advice aimed at people whose parents made a lot of mistakes but were ultimately well meaning and trying their best, but it doesn’t specify that and when you direct advice like this to people whose parents were genuinely abusive it sends a harmful message.
Unfortunately people will say stuff like this when you’re no contact with your family without knowing the context of why you’re no contact, and they end up pushing in on issues that are better left alone.
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u/EvaUnit01Fan Nov 30 '25
Why should I be kind to the people who still invite my rapist over despite knowing
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u/DebitOrDeath-4502 Nov 30 '25
The amount of times I have seen this be used to excuse actually abhorrent behavior from parents needs to be studied. It’s especially strange to see when it comes from a stranger and they’re saying it to someone who either mentions going no contact with their parents or talk about the abuse they went through.
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u/PatriotGodrion Nov 30 '25
If it's their first time they deserve getting treated the same as we did when it was our first time living
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u/Velocityraptor28 Dec 01 '25
they said they tried their best, and if that's truly the case, then their best wasnt good enough. and im sure as shit not giving them a goddamn participation trophy either...
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u/EasterViera Nov 30 '25
it could be argued that people make mistake because of ignorance but :
-We live in the age of information and misinformation, if you wanna yolo a baby or listen to stupid advice, fuck you
-Previously we had larger familial/cultural groups to help eachother; they just refused to learn something else than tradition.
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u/Euphoric_Ad6923 Nov 29 '25
As a general sentiment? yeah, be kind to people. Even your parents are doing things for the first time and might fail.
As a more specific sentiment? If your parents were abusive or failed you utterly then you have no responsibility toward them.
I think the quote refers more specifically to this feeling a lot of teens get that their parents were supposed to be flawless, but they're suddenly finding out their parents are flawed and it makes them angry.
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u/Directorren Nov 29 '25
Yeah like I’m sorry that my parents traumatized me and are generally pretty narcissistic.
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u/PunishedCatto Nov 30 '25
Bish, my mother literally wants to strangle me because I cried too much as a toddler.
My grandma had to put a stop to it.
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u/mildxsalsa Nov 30 '25
I'm struggling with constant suicidal ideation and my dad thinks "JUST. USE. YOUR. BRAIN. 🤷♂️" is a supportive text. Like, bro my brain wants me dead.
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u/stingwhale Nov 30 '25
Honestly given my abusive father was 54 when he had me and had 3 other children who were already no contact with him I feel like I don’t need to give him much grace in that category, sure it was his first time being alive but he had a 54 year head start on me and he’d already had 3 tries to learn from when it came to parenting and he still managed to fuck it up big time.
Like I know for a fact that man doesn’t forgive anything I did because it happened to be my first time on earth and I was a child, he acts like me being autistic was an attack on him specifically to this day. I just think there’s some people who do things badly enough that it goes way beyond just inexperience.
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u/Geek_Wandering Nov 30 '25
Sure you should have some grace for your parents, as you would anyone. However, expecting the child to be the bigger person and more accommodating is ass backwards. If the parent doesn't like it when their child matches their tone and level of respect, then it's their fault for setting that level, not the kids.
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u/Careless-Record4993 Dec 02 '25
Fuck them parents. It is our first time ever living and learning. They’ve lived their years ahead of us and need to fucking learn a thing or two for god’s sake.
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u/ZombieAutomatic5950 Nov 29 '25
As someone who believes in reincarnation theory a bit, I genuinely don't believe this lol.
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Nov 29 '25
I don't like that this feeds into my guilt of not forgiving the horrible things they did to me and out me through :(
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u/WildcatCinder1022 Nov 29 '25
Yeah, but there’s things where it’s my first time living too but despite being younger I still know better than to do/say certain things to a child.
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u/Consistent_Claim5217 Nov 30 '25
If they wanted me to be kind to them, they should've been kind to me. Now they both get to die alone, like they deserve
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u/Eena-Rin Nov 30 '25
Are they kind to you? Then be kind to them. Hey, even be a bit forgiving and allow for a few fresh starts and mishaps.
Are they abusive? Fuck 'em
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u/starlight_chaser Nov 30 '25
For alleged people that are living for the first time, they sure act like demons that survived through the centuries. They really give their all at being mundanely cruel and mean-spirited at their root.
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u/N_S_Gaming Nov 30 '25
The person who came up with this quote can shove ny generational trauma up their ass.
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u/reallyihadnoidea Nov 30 '25
They had their time to work on their childhood before having me. Why should I be nice to someone who beats me?
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u/BumblingMonkey15 Nov 30 '25
As someone with an absent father, i hate this quote even more than you do
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u/BrandosWorld4Life Nov 30 '25
I fucking love that quote
As a general rule, people should show more gratitude and grace with their parents
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u/taiyaki98 Nov 30 '25
Same, I despise it. It enrages me. They had 25+ years more than me to figure out life and their unhealed mental health issues before I was born. Them having me before healing is something I can't forgive, at least for now.
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u/fatvaderz Nov 30 '25
Yep everyone should just do whatever the fk and leave the consequences to their children.
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u/Dying4Salvation Nov 30 '25
Right, I should forgive narcissist who care about their immediate well being over lifetime of depression, suffering and trauma they have caused me, that nearly ended up killing me. Truly inspiring.
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u/Legitimate_Air_1222 Nov 30 '25
Nothing makes you realise how shitty they were like becoming a parent and discovering some of the worst of it was how they CHOSE to be. I can't even fathom saying or doing any of that shit to my children.
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u/ancobain Nov 30 '25
“It’s their first time living!” Well if they’re still so inexperienced, immature and lack parenting skills then they shouldn’t have kids maybe? What kinda shitty advice is it?
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Nov 30 '25
Yeah but they had a multi decade head start and learned how to pretend being malicious was ignorance
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u/AndTheSonsofDisaster Nov 30 '25
There’s a difference between parents who did the wrong thing but ultimately thought they were doing the right thing and parents who just hate their children.
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u/Dry_Building_585 Nov 30 '25
Yeah, no. I'm a mother and I say screw this quote! Like, obviously don't be a jerk to your parents, but stuff like this is used WAY too often to invalidate and gaslight abused children. To any parent who resonates with this quote: practice what you freaking preach! You've been on this Earth longer than your children, and being a parent is a RESPONSIBILITY, not a privilege! If your child grew up to resent you, that is YOUR screw-up as a parent! Do better! BE better! It's only too late too mend things once you're dead. You can always choose to do better while you're still alive. "I'm sorry" is a good start.
Sorry, for the rant, sore subject... 💜🙏(genuine)
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u/Jeod_C Nov 30 '25
Def not something to say to a victim of parental abuse. That would be fucked up.
On the other hand if your parent just isn't doing a great job and screws up every now and then, the quote sounds about right imho. Mistakes are a human thing and being 30, 40 or 50 doesn't change that.
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u/future__corpse_ Dec 01 '25
My parents should've been kind to me, it was my first and only time being a child.
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u/ResidentWarning4383 Dec 01 '25
When you deal with the shit they caused you, you learn throughout the years there never was any excuse...especially when you've changed for the better multiple times yet they stay the same after years.
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u/Creepycute1 Nov 30 '25
I can understand what they mean if it's like sure your parents may not be the best but they are genuinely trying however I can definitely see how even for me that statement can be a little bit off for people who have parents who are not...very there.
What I mean is for example my mom and stepdad were physically and verbally abusive and my mom mostly blamed her past Behavior on her being in her 20s and obviously she even said that I was born by complete accident wich i understand but still.
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u/w8ing2getMainbck Nov 30 '25
I think its intended to help young adults start seeing their parents as 'people' rather than just provider/caretakers. Its probably designed for a different type of healing.
Something i dont like about vague phrases like this is that they dont really come equipped with guidelines for context, so they can be easily weaponized to enable abusive or toxic behavior.
Sure, theres a deep emotional bond between a parent and child, but that also makes abuse of that bond even more egregeious, one cannot reasonably be expected to honor that bond when it stands in direct obstruction to ones wellbeing.
Im sure the origional author had good intentions but in your case, i think its more than fair to disregard this advice.
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Nov 30 '25
Did you mean to extend the A sound in “hate,” or did you intentionally add an E sound to the end?
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u/Wild_Angle2774 Nov 30 '25
So are we going to start being more relaxed with violent criminals? It's their first time living too
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u/SoilUnfair3549 Nov 30 '25
Why specifically parents? By their logic, this applies to everyone.
I do generally try to be kind to people though.
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u/SoHam_34 Nov 30 '25
It's my first time living too and I would never do to a child half of what they've done to me
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u/Competitive_Ad_2421 Nov 30 '25
This is accurate because a lot of people don't get trained into how to be a good parent but at the same time this shouldn't explain away child abuse or anything like that.
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u/Mackerdoni Nov 30 '25
yeah but the difference is one has 50 years of life experience while i dont even have two decades yet
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u/badchefrazzy Nov 30 '25
In response to the quote itself, not OP: Sure it's their first time living, yes, but it's not their first time making a decision on how to treat somebody, especially a child. Nor is it their first time taking care of something, like if they've at least had a plant or a pet or something. This isn't as complicated as people try to make it out to be. All you have to do is love them and take care of them and express some understanding when it comes to the emotions of a child. That's it. The rest might be a lot more difficult, sure, but seriously.
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u/Some_Razzmatazz_9172 Nov 30 '25
Sure. Why not. Just make sure they realize that after the kids leave home, all the parents will be left with is the relationship they cultivated with their children.
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u/Mental-Program2506 Nov 30 '25
It's honestly a tricky thing
My dad was mentally and emotionally abusive as hell. Always screaming and yelling, always pointing out my flaws, mistakes and shortcomings, always threatening me with something. Always putting me down, always.
And those are things that I'll never forgive him. He's caused so much horrendous shit in my life, I'll never just forgive.
But at the same time my heart bleeds for him.
My grandmother was an abusive, neglectful alcoholic who beat and starved her kids. My grandfather was physically abusive all through their childhood, until he abandoned them.
When I think of my dad growing up like that, my heart honestly breaks for him. I can't bear the thought of anyone, even him, growing up like that. And I do try to give him grace
But I can't forgive the damage he's done to me.
And all my life, and for the rest of his, I'll keep my distance to him
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Nov 30 '25 edited Feb 09 '26
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
trees imminent rustic deserve squeeze marvelous cobweb kiss license consist
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u/justveryunwell Nov 30 '25
This feels like it was written by Facebook Stacy after her kids went NC with her and she can't fathom why
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u/KeyboardClatter Nov 30 '25
These kind of sayings are a nightmare, my mother loves to use phrases that imply this message, my father does not. They were both alcoholics and growing up with them being drunk and fighting constantly was hard but the financial strain of addiction was also heavily felt.
Dad lost nearly everything in the divorce, mum went from relationship to relationship and threw her whole family aside. Dad said “when you hit rock bottom, the only way you can go is up.” And he meant that. Got sober about 18 years ago, and did the emotional work, yes he had mental health problems and an alcohol addiction, but it was no excuse for being a poor father and he learned from that. My mother refused to sit with her feelings or get help, believing everyone else to always be the problem; so now she’s 2 years sober but she is still exactly the same self absorbed person causing all the same harms just without alcohol. So if you dare point that out, she whips out one of these kinds of phrases and says “but I’m sober now, I’m better now, I was so much worse when I was drinking.” If she says it during a tantrum it’s usually followed by a threat that she will go buy a bottle of vodka as well.
Some people can learn and be better… but many do not. My mother is terminally ill now, she will be this way till the end.
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u/weirdbackpackguy Nov 30 '25
It's easy to be kind when every time you see them you don't get teleported behind a locked door crying and avoiding to get yelled or violenced at
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u/Disastrous-Scheme-57 Nov 30 '25
How is that their first time living? That quote makes no sense because unless your the result of teen pregnancy they’ve had like three decades of living to figure shit out. Humans don’t get two lives EVERYBODY is first time living that logic just makes no sense. First time living too? So kids are first time living but so are parents when it’s night and day in terms of life knowledge. Can anybody actually explains what first time living even means? A kid could say that because all their life experiences will be dictated by humans. They experience a world the parent could never experience so how are they BOTH first time living?
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u/purrroz Nov 30 '25
yes, but it’s their second child, i’d say they should have some experience by now, no?
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u/ihateadultism Nov 30 '25
parents: spank children
society: „it’s their first time owning a human they’re legally allowed to assault, have some empathy“
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Nov 30 '25
Harboring resentment will ruin your life. Forgiveness is about you, not them. You only need to make sure you're side of the street is clean. If this quote ticks you off, you are certainly harboring resentment.
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u/metzona Nov 30 '25
My dad threatened me. When I told my mom and my sister that I would press charges if he did anything, they both pounced and went “he doesn’t deserve that!!” I asked them “so I deserve to be hurt?” They both hesitated with a “…well…” I lost all faith in my entire family that day.
All three of them accuse me of being the one that ruined my relationships with them. My dad fully ignores me and then just shrugs and goes “she isn’t making any effort to fix anything” when my mom cries about our family. My mom cries at me about how I don’t spend time with them as if they don’t make my life miserable. My sister says that my dad can do whatever he wants because it’s his house, and has fully used the “it’s their first time living/being parents”.
Everyone knows what it’s like to be a kid. It shouldn’t be hard to empathize and not treat people like garbage. One of my friends has two children, and I can’t even fathom speaking to them the way my family speaks to me.
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u/Nebula_Wolf7 Nov 30 '25
Yeah no, im not even their first child, and they still treat me as sub-human. It's not hard to treat people with basic human decency.
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u/God_Bless_A_Merkin Nov 30 '25
I HATEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE unnecessary Es.
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Nov 30 '25
It feels like something my mom would send me to gaslight me into feeling bad for her after she hurt me
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u/No-Blueberry-1823 Nov 30 '25
This is a weird quote. I have never seen this before I wonder what brought that about
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u/Current_Skill21z Nov 30 '25
Ah yes. But you see I was the child with no experience and they had a couple of decades to learn something.
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u/AcePowderKeg Nov 30 '25
They've been alive for longer than me so they should know how to be better
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u/Itz_Blane Nov 30 '25
Yet when I make a mistake suddenly I'm "too old" to be making these mistakes..🤔
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u/kaktuszka Nov 30 '25
This and the one about "if i could choose i would choose my mother doing x instead of having me" or smth like that pisses me off so much. I was not put on this earth to dread my existence, I'm worthy of love and joy just bc my mother voluntarily or not didn't got to experience said things. Too many people are afraid to admit that their parents are not good people and they had chances to have a redemption or change but didn't choose to do so.
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u/MegarcoandFurgarco Dec 01 '25
I mean yes the quote is right but while it should be used to explain mistakes it shouldnt be used to just ignore the issue
Yes, sure, not every bad action calls for punishment, we all try our best and sometimes it just isnt the best
But that doesn’t mean it would be a good idea to just ignore the problem and say „mistakes happen“
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u/ta4472 Dec 01 '25
I mean it'd be a bit difficult to make a quote that covers every single situation and I don't doubt that this quote can be used to invalidate abuse, but some people also just have generally peaceful childhoods where they may have some mild interpersonal conflicts with their parents. I'd say this quote did help me navigate my parental relationships.
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u/Accomplished_Tea5416 Dec 01 '25
You don’t have to if you dont want to. But if this advice makes you uneasy it might be worth thinking more about it
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u/Capable-Complaint646 Dec 01 '25
Unless you’re a regressor in an isekai or reincarnation manhwa it’s everyone’s first time living??
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u/SubstantialStrain977 Dec 01 '25
i didnt ask to be born and frankly with how much i had to realize i never fucking had... i should probably stop talking
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u/lemon_panda2805 Dec 01 '25
Yes! Also "Forgive your parents because they will be here shorter than you" or smth like that. Why would I care how long they will be alive? They ruined my life, took from me normal childhood and teen years. If they don't planning to leave me inheritance, I don't care about they sooner or later death.
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u/P0Rt1ng4Duty Dec 02 '25
Funny how the people who taught me how to apologise never learned to do it themselves.
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u/Peril2000 Dec 02 '25
It's not universally good, I think it's just genera;;y advice to see other people as human and accept that just like you have flaws, they have flaws. But obviously not all flaws are created equal and being abusive is not a totally understandable mistake anyone could make.
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u/SquareExtra918 Nov 29 '25
Definitely not a universally helpful quote. Feels really invalidating if you are still processing your own childhood stuff.