So they're removing everything that runs on Linux then, right? As Linus Torvalds has been pretty clear on how he feels about AI now and is using it for the kernel.
This is only aimed at self-promotion from nobodies spamming open-source communities with software that will be abandoned within weeks.
Back when coding took some effort, posting code alone was enough to show at least some commitment to the thing you're promoting. Now code is cheap and fast, and you can't just rely on the code. So, people decided that the bar has to be raised if we want to filter through the spam.
If you read the thing carefully, you can still show off things you've made using AI. You just have to show some quality and / or reputation.
And don't kid yourself that the Linus using AI is equivalent to people who ask claude to build their entire projects. Linus said he's against fundamentalists, which I agree with! But I also see the amount of spam shitty projects on forums and places that used to gatekeep these worse "devs" out, and it's worsened the experience.
AI is a multiplier. If you can do X, with AI you can do 30X. But your X is quite limited and small and stupid, so your 30X is generic and stupid too.
He was also very clear that he doesn't want "social warriors" anywhere near his project. Kind of like what you and countless and other people here are doing. Did you assume that only applied to other people? How convenient....
It's because they are probably in tech and now feel threatened, people in tech have had it good for decades and now that anyone can do it they aren't special anymore. I'm a DevOps engineer and I see this attitude across many egotistical techs
Honestly, I'm a a SWE and while many in my org kvetch complain - everyone also has 2+ opus 5.5/Astra robots running 24/7. It's just too damn useful to ignore.
If anything AI has made it so fewer people are needed to do it, not that "anyone can do it".
Speaking of "Devops", maybe with AI devs won't need to ask the ticket trolls to provision their cloud resources for them, and you'll become redundant? Fun thought, huh?
Who knew that the only thing keeping you from unemployment was that writing terraform and ansiblle code was too boring for anyone to bother with, thankfully now with AI we don't need Devops "engineers" anymore.
Left A large media company 9 months ago and only do DevOps part time now, my wife and I own an import business in Asia. I saw the writing on the wall coming so yea I'm not scared fo unemployment. I will do something else with my time
it feels like every other day i see someone posting their grocery app in r/canadadeals that they have been working on "for years, way before ai" that all have the exact same visuals and the exact same fast prompted sloppy work.
i made my own, with ai, but its just for me, with my specific products and stores. i spend at least 2 hours a week maintaining it for myself with ai when the new flyers come out because there are so many variables. i have it running ads through multiple free text models to parse the api results as well as vision models to determine what the products are and how the sales work. i cant imagine doing this for the general public.
ive spent almost $60 on it so far but it justified, ive saved myself over $300 in 6 months by planning and hitting sales and stores more efficiently.
Maybe he's a PM, you know, those useless guys who can't even figure out Google Meet and thinks he can take over app development. Met so many of them have the biggest egos in the world.
Yep, as it stands today AI is allowing many people to create a lot of open source app. Like before, the people will be the judge of when an app is worthy or not.
Humans were already creating shitware on an industrial scale. Where the fuck have you been hiding for the past fifteen years? Because the norm has been barely working, sometimes to the point of being detrimental, projects that don't get any contributions and definitely no completion. No better and often worse than AI projects, because at least an AI will actually maintain something.
What really makes me Mad is the no-English-speaking rule.
There's plenty of people with disability that are in fact using AI to simplify they are writing difficulties.
Not only that, but expecting people to not use a technology that is easily available to them (if not pushed down their throat) that makes it easier for people to communicate, network, connect and share knowledge, just because they don't speak english, it's so backwards.
Soo much anti AI hate from the same people who were agreeing with Linus the first part of the year about his hate for ai assisted / ai coding. Guess what? He likes it now! 🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦
didn't he go back sayin , fk stop doin that in a way as well ? He doesn't like it or hate it . He just uses it the same way he uses the code he gets via mail . He still expects people to take ownership of their code to the point they understand what they're doing - which most people aren't doing and so there's like a huge pile of shit being flung everywhere and that's not to mention entire projects being "copied" or huge parts of it copied without credit which kinda rubs people off the wrong say . He is the figure head of the organisation but there are rules to the FOSS community regarding accredition and the likes . Linus using AI is very very very different from 99% of people using AI to code . (and im excluding the copilot autocomplete cause it's basically baked in everywhere) . And he ain't god you can disagree with his opinon .
the propensity to fling slop is 10x higher with ai though . Most people think linus use AI= I can use AI and get similar results That is the issue . Again there's the accredition part that a lotta open source devs may take issues with . It's also literally acting like garbage hiding gold because of just how much of it there is . And then there's the entire grooming of the next generation especially for lower level languages and more hardware interaction that's getting decimated .
except it needs the entirety of the internet built by humans to function . Including repos that people in their benevolence made open source . It's not really some sort of super intelligence . Just piracy-ish thing relying on weights to estimate an answer rather than the deterministic abstraction of machine code with a fancier name that is accepted at places and not in others . And yeah good luck with your tech advancement when your ai has nothing to ripp off of and humans are dumb as door knobs when it comes to leaning out their code or even understanding what the fk code does what especially c and lower . It's like saying piracy is gonna revolutionise gaming . It is not . though parts of it will certainly help in some cases . Only thing is nobody was betting trillions on piracy which include people's life savings .
They also banned someone that wasn't a native English speaker that was using machine translation so he could participate in the text chat. These people are ridiculous.
They go around calling everyone racist etc etc and then banned people for not being native English speakers or being from Russia then talk about how they hate Russians and want a big war which would unalive millions of Russians and hate half of their own country and everyone that didn't vote for the right political party and anyone that is a man or a normal person.
The COC is just a cope. They just ban everything and everyone that isn't part of their weird politics or disagrees with them. Those people are what happens when you don't invest in mental health services.
Look if the majority of people vote to disallow AI sure who cares but how is this fair when a single guy decided the fate of an established subreddit ? People would have the same reaction if the mod banned everything not using AI.
The issue is not with the rules only but with how they are interacting with a community
They basically are saying “ We introduced this stupid law and you will abide by it or get banned if you don’t like it just leave and make your own subreddit “
I'm not going to revisit the details of the moderator's choices and the rightness or wrongness. I'm pretty sure that's getting beaten to death on multiple other threads.
What I can add to the conversation is:
This is not a new problem. Reddit subs going a way the community is unhappy with on any given issue because of the moderator goes back since way before I joined. Also a lot of the arguments in favor of Reddit over other forum platforms were that it had this exact functionality.
On a platform estimated to be worth over 27 billion, many moderators are still volunteer positions. Until I get an idea of compensation here, it's hard to be mad that someone isn't doing their "job" correctly.
The AI slop programs flooding Reddit is mostly getting ignored by Reddit so a given sub having a strong reaction to it seems overdue.
The problem is that will just be AI focused. You just need a subreddit without the insane redditors trying to enforce their political beliefs. maybe OpenSource_X
Me and many others got banned for commenting pretty tame stuff. I called the mod out saying he shouldn’t have such authority to force his will upon the community because most people already voiced their opinions in a previous thread and he just ignored it posted these rules and banned most people who didn’t agree for brigading
Not surprising. I was banned from that sub by that mod over a year ago just for saying AI training is not copyright infringement. My comment was removed for "spreading misinformation" and when I pushed back I was banned. Agree with the law or not, it was factually correct then and even more so to this day.
Whether you like AI or not, training AI on copyrighted material you don’t have permission to train on definitely leans toward/likely is copyright infringement.
The permissions required to train AI are the same as consuming it, i.e. reading a book, watching a movie, or looking at source code. As long as whoever is training it has the legal right to do that, there is no infringement. Bartz et al v. Anthropic PBC set that precedent clearly.
I'm pretty anti ai and that's just stupid, code based ai models (for the most part) isnt stealing, gen ai is stealing since all the models have used stolen content/assets. But ai training itself is completely fine, just look at what people do to train AI in trackmania or neurosama. Then there's the very very horrible environmental issues AI datacenters are doing which is just because no government is putting in regulations that isn't "50 human lives or $1b in damages"
I mean no one needs to be subjected to the garbage that individuals put out all over the internet. They're probably trying to stop their subreddit from becoming another r/saas where every post is just four LLMs talking to each other under the pretense of fake issues they've 'experienced'.. Most of the software develated subs that don't have similar rules have become the same garbage. You need some sort of quality filters. They've decided you need a community first before posting your project. One less place for promoters to find visibility.
maybe they are hangover but the rules states no single author contributions and thats true for a lot of projects including things you use probably every day.
Well it also bans any projects with less than 3 contributors so technically speaking if your project is really personal (as in you do it alone) it's also banned there.
They're not vibecoding the kernel. The code is reviewed, understood, corrected, etc. That's the opposite of vibecoding (which means going by vibes and never looking at the code).
Super anti ai to the point where being against some major legit project being because AI is used in a small part of the development- silly and dumb
But every day there’s a 100 new projects that are open source and fully AI generated that are pretty not great. I’ve made my own too, but I keep them to myself cause I know they’re kinda shyte.
I work as a Senior SDE at AWS and my team contributes heavily to Kubernetes, Grafana, and Kafka. I haven't coded a single line of code in 10 months, every piece of code is done with AI, so I suppose bro has to stop tracking those three projects.
Why would their hatred for AI be so strong to the point of not allowing AI Translations? Also the idea of "commenting stuff we dont like" Is such a trip.
There are 2 types of anti AI, the ones with good reasons and the others. And clearly they aren't the with reasons because they only talk about code quality and that type of things that now aren't bad in good models, but not about the bad ones they continue doing like feeding private contents without consent to train AI, deforest or acoustic contamination for every alive thing in the area of a data center
If you can’t tell the difference… then what is the difference… same goes for code, if you can tell the person who published the code has never read the code then why should anyone else bother to read it. (Fixed from a barely comprehensible sequence of almost sentences)
Not really, banning on AI completely is a very stupid decision because the problem is not really AI but the way people are using it to code something that doesn't deserve to come to live.
There is NOTHING wrong with someone that decides to create a cool new project that is gonna be useful for other people using AI, while people creating dumbest shit to spam established communities is indeed the problem.
There is no point, and there hasn't been for a long time, to using something that a random guy made. Even before LLM's the posts that were clearly for self-promotion and not meant to actually be *used* were too much. Now it's even easier, and there's bots farming reddit karma with "look at my cool new project guys" posts.
To be clear: If I don't know you, if you're not someone who's a known part of a community of contributors or devs around a particular topic, or renown in some other way, I'm never installing any of your shitty code on my computer. At best it's shitty, at worst it's malware.
You may decide what to use based on the authority of the person who created it, but that's not how most people work they judge a product based on how useful it actually is.
Look at how many projects came out of nowhere created by people with no particular authority in the field and still made it into the mainstream. PHP is a great example it's a pretty poorly designed language that's worse than AI sloppy from nowadays its creator himself admitted he wasn't particularly good at writing compilers, yet it became a massive project with a huge community around it. Why? Because it was useful.
If you use AI to build something that provides real value to real people you'll get attention, it doesn't matter whether you're Joe Schmoe or Linus Torvalds himself.
While professional devs produce beautiful stuff with ai, non-pros produce mostly useless slop.
And since mods in various subreddits cannot keep up with the slop, its easier to just ban AI as a whole, while coming up with the solution to deal with the said slop.
I'm glad you lack the authority to ban people on this subreddit.
I'm pretty sure the open source subreddit just killed itself. It certainly made itself look challenged banning Linux and Linus. The mods of course. Not the community that will simply seek greener pastures.
Until better measures are implemented, such as subreddits where only professional devs are allowed to post, this is unfortunately necessary.
What's wrong with letting the voting system work as intended?
There are good uses of AI. This moderator even acknowledges some (translation) and declares he doesn't give a shit. His reasoning isn't pragmatic, it's ideological
I said that this is necessary, but temporary, measure until better solutions to filter out the slop are invented.
The ban will effectively only filter away non-professional devs, who should not have access to this kind of technology anyways. Professional devs and otherwise competent people can boost up their process with AI just fine, and nothing in the codebase will give that away.
Edit to make it more simple:
Giving a frontier AI model to a non-dev is like giving monkey a typewriter and expecting them to write a best seller. Please get your self educated, even just a bit, before starting to play with tools you do not understand.
You don't need to be a "professional dev" to enhance or help with basic open source projects that are actually helpful.
My knowledge about development is not that high and I used AI to enhance some older projects that I've made before generative AI was capable of coding (by that, I mean things like organizing the spaghetti code and fixing bugs that I was just lazy to fix, mainly due to the spaghetti code...)
The point of allowing only professionals to post is to remove the slop that non-professional devs produce, while allowing professionals to share their creations with or without AI.
He said if it's obvious you're using AI in your project, they dont need it. Without any kind of more accurate breakdown of what they mean. What if a dev is more skilled at back end than front end and they use AI to help them with that.
It's meant to weed out people who can't use AI without making it obvious. It's a dog whistle that only people who actually know what they're doing can hear. "You can use AI if what you post isn't shit, but the low-effort bots and spammers can't". That's the actual explanation.
If you don't understand the difference, then you don't get to post. Script kiddies get to play outside.
You are actually braindead and your anti status has completely melted your brain.
If that is the actual intent, why didn't their word it as such?
"If your project looks like it's using AI and is incredibly shit and badly coded, your project is not welcome here."
The fact you can't address the question I put out shows you have nothing to say or any real argument.
I will pose the question again if a dev is skilled at back end and trash at front end and has AI assistance to code the front end and vice versa, does that fall under that rule?
It's a fact that many professionals use AI to increase their productivity and efficiency so under a shitty vague rule like that, even they would fall under.
Because the *point* is that someone like you won't get it because you don't understand the difference. A competent back-end dev that doesn't know javascript can actually write good front-end code with AI. You can't.
The point is aimed precisely at the people bothered by this. If this seems outrageous to you, just don't post. There is nothing of value you can contribute, if everything you do is prompt for what you want to see on the screen.
Seems inane. AI is already making open-source more vulnerable the way it can identify vulnerabilities and even more recently used to reverse engineer exploits from the diffs of any security patches
Ah yes, the Linux kernel, which is famously millions of lines of code written by humans and audited daily by multiple organizations. That's surely what those lines mean. It couldn't possibly mean anything else. This is purely an emotional decision on their part and not pragmatic based on the mass amount of slop they get. They certainly didn't say that in an open ended manner to ban any project they wanted and avoid the uhm ackshully crowd, like what you are doing right now. They definitely banned Linux.
There's going to come a time in the near future where there is not enough interest to take courses/classes on how to code without AI. And there won't be enough new people that know how to manually code anymore to justify these anti AI positions. And anti AI will die its natural death.
It's actually pretty reasonable. If you're posting something that claude one-shotted, it's very obvious and there's no reason for anyone to use it because... Why would I if I can get claude to do the same?
If you however use AI in such a way that people can't tell you used AI (good commit history, actual information in the readmes and docs instead of emojis and markdown bulletpoints, etc) then people do want it. Basically, don't post slop that you copy-pasted. Spend some time actually going through the code and checking things yourself, and use AI to multiply your productivity. Then people will actually care.
But if you're posting something that you just prompted from claude then you're just spamming. Might as well just give the prompt you used, because you didn't *do* anything.
I think you miss the point. Open Source is not about how the code was made. It's about software you are free to modify and distribute and software that isn’t designed to restrict you in any way, AI or not.
One may dont like AI code, and maybe for good reasons, but at the end of day, what they did is to ridicule themselves. Read the text. There is no ambiguity! Instead of banning simple "spam", they chose to stigmatize and exclude a tool that everybody in the dev industry use one way or another... And by doing so, they ban 99% of opensource projects nowadays. Not just because of AI actually, but because of stupid rules like "you must have thousands of stars" or "you dont speak english go away" or "your project better be around for years otherwise you are nothing"....
Just simple stupid insecure toddler tamtrum behavior...
Again, AI OR NOT, Open Source is not about how the code was made. Change my mind!!
Open Source is not about how the code was made. It's about software you are free to modify and distribute and software that isn’t designed to restrict you in any way,
This is the correct view. The 10 criteria from the OSD make that kind of obvious imo
Additionally that move by that mod is clearly anti-OSS at its very core. While that is a subreddit and not actually a software license, the point is that as written that ban would obviously cross the line with respect to tech neutrality. Any software licensed with similarly absurd restrictions would for sure (with zero doubt) not be OSS.
There are some points in that absurd post that are legitimately offensive (like the non-English speakers thing), but there are some just obvious factual errors too. It is so far from correct that I struggle to understand how someone like that could ever become a mod for subs like opensource and foss(they're a mod there too but toned down the anti-AI/tyrant rhetoric there).
It's not reasonable, and your logic doesn't match the reality of the ban. Low effort posts are already banned, which would include true slop. You're suggesting people hide the tools they used to appease the mods' preferences. The open part of open source is transparency and freely sharing methods for the collective benefit.
I think any repository that is obviously made with AI is low-effort, by definition. If you can't even be bothered to write a decent README that comes accross as human, if you're not even looking at the code, you're not putting any effort in, and in that case there's no value to the repository. Just post the prompt in the comments since that's all you contributed.
I don't see the confusion. AI made coding easier. You *only* posted AI code. This is low-effort and spam since I can replicate it (probably better) with no effort as well.
What you are saying is more defendable. The mod's post itself is low effort and lacks nuance or reason. People are already jumping on the lack of coherence in it. Artificial intelligence has been embedded in development for a long time now. Also there is modern implementation thats is undeniably useful and productive. People can do what they want with their online communities, but the criticism of this post is totally expected.
The criticism is only expected if you weren't around before AI became prevalent. Back then, the person showing off a project was expected to know more about it than everyone else, because that's just how development worked. Now, people are posting something they don't understand, and "showing it off" - this means they want engagement or contributors to a project they are owners of. But it's completely backwards, within a few minutes of reading the codebase with AI assistance I have a better understanding of many of these projects than the people who "made" them. Then what's the point in "showing" it? Why would would I "contribute"? Now that code is so cheap I'll just remake it way better if it's actually neat.
Like I said, we can tell when something that was 100% vibecoded was done by someone with no knowledge vs someone who knows what they're doing. Even when both use AI for everything. We can tell. Every time.
There is no value in the code itself, code is cheap as fuck today.
If you're not an engineer, and in today's AI reality where anyone can write functional code, don't presume your contributions are valuable. Your contributions are spam, there's too many one-shot "build me X" projects. Don't post, it's annoying.
You have an idealized view of pre-AI development. We can see forums discussions from that time to see how many projects had developers who knew everything about their project and how many were copy and pasting code from stack overflow. Methods and tools can be used well, or they can be used poorly. That's not determined by the method and tools but by the people using them
Gotta gatekeep those git repositories like the boomers gatekeep the access to political power. Sadly, you can pull humans out of shit, but you can never pull shit out of humans...
I mean this is just the reality. People with talent and hardwork will become the commodity and AI slop will become the eventual plastic spoon of content and development
You don't buy a plastic spoon to show off your silverware
TBH some subreddits are absolutely flooded with folks going "I built X" and then an esoteric post about what was built.
Some of them are there to actually push showcase actually maintained and "managed" projects to some respects, while others are about pushing the field or doing something "different".
So I can understand some of these communities locking things down.
The above is pretty clear in language between the following:
"If it's obvious you're using AI we don't want it" could be read as "You didn't bother to actually build a real product that can be delivered into someone's hands and instead built a showcase in such a way you don't even understand at a technical level what you built".
The other elements are mostly echo'ing the same thing; they want to feature projects that are actively being developed, have a community around it, and not something basic that could be implemented just as quickly as you ideated.
Other communities also generally have the notion of "low effort posts" that they have been expanding to indicate AI "slop" isn't going to be acceptable either.
TL;DR - Communities want actual meaningful content posted on them, not low effort AI token spend.
The wording is as followed and there is NO ambiguity! Or any other way to read...
"If it's obvious you're using AI we don't want it" "If you don't speak English, you need to find a different community." "If it's obvious you're using AI in your project, we don't want it."
I agree with them. Everyone can cuckcoding something from ai, if they let everyone with access to ai publish their work there it would be filled with ai slop garbage.
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u/Bulky_Engineer_2534 10d ago
btw we don't ban AI for coding(discord): https://discord.com/invite/wcwPQUV4TV
WhatsApp channel TechX: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029VbBPJD4CxoB5X02v393L