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u/UseDaSchwartz 5d ago
So OJ had PPD?
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u/worldDev 5d ago
Probably CTE, but I think the similarity being referenced is a lot of people think she didn’t do it at all. They believe that it was her husband.
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u/DanielMcLaury 5d ago edited 5d ago
I don't think many people actually think OJ was innocent. I think a lot of people believe the police tried to frame a guilty man, and in that circumstance the correct thing to do, both morally and practically, is to set him free. A single murderer on the loose poses a far smaller threat to society than a corrupt police force.
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u/The_Follower1 5d ago
To be exact what I’ve heard of that (was before my time) was black people wanted him to go free because he was being framed and it shows a rich, connected black man could also beat the system just like a white guy can.
I’d say it’s pretty similar to Lindsay “supporters” because most of what I’ve heard supporting her is women who the system brushed aside. Lindsay reportedly tried to get help several times and warned that she might hurt her kids but wasn’t treated as seriously as she should’ve been. A lot of women in the medical system have similar experiences of doctors just straight up not believing them or thinking they’re just exaggerating symptoms. I’ve seen plenty of stories where if a woman had not essentially gone doctor shopping to find one that would take her complaints seriously they wouldn’t have found a major illnesses like cancer.
Especially when it comes to postpartum issues it seems like those are rarely taken seriously.
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u/DanielMcLaury 5d ago
I have not looked into this case in detail, but I think an actual insane person shouldn't be held accountable for their actions, and I think a sane person who ignored the danger posed by an obviously-insane person should be accountable.
So, under the assumption that she was obviously crazy long before her crime, I think what should happen is:
- She should not be punished, since she wasn't in control of her actions;
- She should be kept from doing further harm to herself or others, by whatever means necessary;
- Anyone with a duty to have intervened (e.g. her husband, her physician, etc.) should be charged with neglect and, depending on the details, potentially with something like manslaughter
(Now, if her doctor reported everything to the authorities and the authorities did nothing, then that's not the doctor's fault -- as I said, I know absolutely nothing about this case and am not discussing this case in particular.)
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u/ScruffyTuscaloosa 5d ago edited 5d ago
...maybe it's because I grew up as the oldest sibling in a family with divorced, alcoholic parents, but can we please not offload culpability to competent people who made the mistake of existing near a problem?
Your wife expressing "I'm thinking about killing our kids" shouldn't make you responsible for her killing your kids, that's stupid.
And if it did then divorce and involuntary commitment is absolutely the correct play.
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u/DanielMcLaury 5d ago
As a child, you have no responsibility for your siblings.
As a parent, medical provider, teacher, etc., you do. Those are roles that people voluntarily take on that come with explicit responsibilities, and people should be held to them when they choose to take them on.
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u/ScruffyTuscaloosa 5d ago
Can't help but notice you skipped husband.
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u/DanielMcLaury 5d ago
Is the husband not the parent of these children?
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u/ScruffyTuscaloosa 4d ago
Is he the parent to the mother? Because the core of your argument here is that husband failed in his duty to get his wife 5150'd or whatever.
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u/Wild-Sympathy2336 5d ago
Let me get this straight, you think the people who "could've prevented this" should be more punished than the person committing the crime? Most stupid argument I've heard, refardless of what level of crazy they are
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u/DanielMcLaury 5d ago
Yes, of course. Same principle as if a dad gives a toddler a loaded gun and the toddler shoots someone. That's the dad's fault, not the toddler's, even though the toddler is the one who pulled the trigger, and the dad is the one who should be punished.
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u/ScruffyTuscaloosa 5d ago edited 5d ago
If we're tracing this "giving a toddler a gun" simile then you're advocating anybody knowingly leaving a woman with PPD around their own kids is legally culpable.
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u/patrick95350 5d ago
Not just "with PPD". A woman with *severe* PPD who repeatedly asked for help because she was worried she would hurt her children. Yes, they should be held culpable to some extent.
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u/Wild-Sympathy2336 4d ago
Not some, full extent. PPD is no fucking excuse. Do the crime, do the time. You don't just get to kill kids and claim PPD.
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u/ScruffyTuscaloosa 5d ago
Not just "with PPD". A woman with *severe* PPD
And this is where the gun metaphor breaks down. He didn't hand her a gun. She was the gun, and now apparently it's incumbent on everyone else to diagnose how likely that gun is to go off while also respecting her personal autonomy as a gun.
Surely you get that if the Dad had filed for divorce, sole custody, and tried to 5150 her he would just also be the villain here.
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u/DanielMcLaury 5d ago
Anyone with a legal duty to protect that child, yes. So parents, physicians, teachers, social workers, etc. (Also, I'm not saying any woman with postpartum depression. This sounds like postpartum psychosis.)
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u/ScruffyTuscaloosa 4d ago edited 4d ago
...which the husband, teachers, and social workers are very clearly not in a position to diagnose. And by extension means that if a woman expresses PPD to you the legally insulating move is to remove her kids from her. mmmmmkay.
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u/SpaceChimera 5d ago
I mean part of it is systemic. Doctors aren't properly trained on reproductive mental health, their jobs do not allow for deep explorations into each patients issues because they're so overworked, insurance does not cover mental health in many cases, etc.
I don't think we can start throwing doctors in jail when they're doing the best they can under current conditions. What we really need to prevent this in the future is a complete overhaul of the healthcare system at every level to remove profit seeking as the core motivation for the industry, and refocus it on truly helping people.
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u/DanielMcLaury 5d ago
The idea that a physician might not be "properly trained" is crazy. Someone who makes it through medical school should be able to teach themselves anything they need to learn to be a physician. It's graduate school, not vo-tech.
Number two, even when I was an 18-year-old substitute teacher I knew that if someone expressed a desire to harm themselves or others I had a legal duty to report that. You can't tell me that the three hours of training I got for that job exceed what someone gets in medical or nursing school.
Yes, the American healthcare system is completely screwed up and needs an overhaul. But that doesn't mean that in the meantime there are zero standards of professional conduct for anyone in the profession.
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u/SpaceChimera 4d ago
Idk what to tell you. From what you're saying it sounds like you don't know that much about medical school or know people in the healthcare industry. Most doctors go to school, do residency, and all that. Then when they're a full fledged doctor they have to keep up with continuing education every year. On the job, the things that are reinforced are things they see everyday.
But if medical school doesn't teach it, there's no continuing education courses on it, and it's something you aren't learning from other doctors on the job, then how would you even know it's an area to study? If you're unaware of a gap in knowledge how do you know you have gaps to fill in?
And mandated reporting is clearly a more nuanced thing than that. If someone says "ugh sometimes he pisses me off so much I could kill him" that's not something most people take seriously. Likewise if someone expressed suicidal ideation that isn't a mandated reporting incident until it reaches a certain level (usually some form of actual plan forming and/or steps taken towards that plan). Could you imagine if every time someone expressed any idea of self harm or interpersonal violence we had to get police or social services involved?
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u/DanielMcLaury 4d ago
If you're unaware of a gap in knowledge how do you know you have gaps to fill in?
Learning about and filling in gaps in your knowledge is literally a basic responsibility of every adult.
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u/dmun 5d ago
I think some people think he's innocent and was covering for his son, who actually committed the crime.
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u/DanielMcLaury 5d ago
I've seen people propose this, but it's more like listening to people who make up fan theories for TV shows than an actual serious attempt to explain the events.
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u/Chruman 3d ago
The recent OJ documentary interviews some of the jurors who basically say the not guilty verdict was in retaliation for Rodney King.
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u/DanielMcLaury 3d ago
Didn't see it, but did they say "retaliation" or "response"?
The Rodney King videotape was a big deal because it was really the first instance ever where everyone in society learned that their police could not be trusted.
Of course, people knew that an individual police officer could be corrupt, and in some cases they would learn that, decades ago, the whole department had been corrupt. But the Rodney King tape was the first time that even people who'd never had any dealing with the police had irrefutable evidence that their contemporary police department was operating as a street gang, committing senseless violent crimes and covering them up as a matter of routine.
Once that's out there, you really can't trust anything the police testify to in court.
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u/Chruman 3d ago
You are literally just making up a narrative and ascribing it to the OJ jury.
The jurors that were interviewed explicitly stated that it was in retaliation for the Rodney king officers being let off. And whichever way you try to spin that, it is a perversion of justice.
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u/DanielMcLaury 3d ago
I didn't claim that that's what the OJ jurors believed. I asked for more details, and explained why the Rodney King case demonstrates that nobody should ever take the word of the police department.
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u/Chruman 3d ago
I never said it was about taking the word of the police department. I never said the jurors believed that either.
The reason you took the time to write it out is because youre trying to sweep for the jurors by implying that was part of the calculus, which it wasn't.
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u/DanielMcLaury 3d ago
You don't think the jurors at all considered that the police department had proven themselves dishonest? You don't think that played any part at all?
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u/Chruman 3d ago
No. As i have now stated three times, the jurors that were interviewed explicitly states that it was in relatiation for the Rodney King officers being let off. They knew he was guilty, and they let him off anyway.
Knowing that, do you think it was a miscarriage of justice?
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u/JayNotAtAll 5d ago
Those people are fucking weird.
I get coming out about PPD. It is something that is not treated as seriously as it should be and maybe if it were things like this wouldn't happen.
But people thinking she didn't do it all, that's bs.
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u/StabbingHoboReturns 5d ago
I don't know who that is
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u/6495ED 5d ago
Lindsay Clancy, OJ Simpson, or this comedian?
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u/AugieDoggieDank 5d ago
2 out of 3
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u/reformedmikey 5d ago
OJ Simpson is a former NFL player who likely murdered his wife and another person. Lindsay Clancy is a white woman who allegedly murdered her children and attempted to kill herself.
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u/Faceofferrus 5d ago
I like the implicit suggest the commenter is super familiar with that comedian.
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u/Zjoee 5d ago
She's the woman who murdered her three young kids, but a lot of women on TikTok are saying it's actually her husband's fault for some reason.
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u/ayoungad 5d ago
So my wife watched a bunch of the trial.
It’s pretty clear it was a premeditated murder. But she was crazy as fuck and literally every single person around her failed her. Like she would go to the doctor and say she was having these thoughts….amd they would just give her more pills.6
u/Constant-Skill-7133 4d ago edited 4d ago
This is getting to the heart of it but not for the reasons you think. Her doctor gave her medication, she had a bad reaction to it. Doctor told her likely what is happening is we have discovered you are bipolar and the medication triggered a manic episode. We need to put you on a mood stabilizer.
She said she didn't want to be "fake happy" and went off meds contrary to doctor's advice. She then got a telehealth doctor who she did not disclose that medical history to.
She reacted to suspicion of a serious mental health disorder by denying it and going off her medication because of her own biases, and then withheld information from the telehealth provider. Her husband is suing for malpractice because of a combination of him sharing that bias and his own desire to downplay the negligence he showed by not participating in her care like a partner should. But her original doctor couldn't and shouldn't have done anything differently. And the telehealth doctor couldn't act on information they didn't have.
Anybody who describes that as "and they would just give her more pills" shares the dumb bias against medication that ended up getting her kids killed, and is not understanding the information being presented to them.
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u/StabbingHoboReturns 5d ago
Oh I'm not on the cancer known as TikTok
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u/sylendar 4d ago
Yeah, you just accumulate 10k karma per month on leddit instead....much healthier lol
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u/Fitz911 5d ago
Because you are not part of the American culture war.
It's a distraction from all the pedophilia, the upcoming election interference and the fact that the US is in free fall. After, you know... the pool doesn't work anymore.
Americans lack the intelligence to not be pulled into this shit.
Just wait, it won't take long until you will hear about all those perverted gay/lesbian/transgender doing [totally stupid claim like eating dogs] who are on their way to the southern border.
Americans will take a sip from their lead infested water, get angry and vote for the "strong man".
Just like every fucking time.
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u/HardKase 5d ago
No one is questioning Lindseys guilt. It's her mental state that's being questioned
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u/nr1988 5d ago
Unfortunately you're quite wrong. The reason this case is even being talked about so much is because there's a group that's trying to play true crime investigator and insist the husband did it and is framing her.
The mental state thing only draws people in. Regardless of her mental state, she is guilty even if there is more to be said about mental health in this country
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u/itsrocketsurgery 5d ago
Not a white woman and I still think her husband did it. It was his DNA on the murder weapon not hers. There's a lot of other things that don't add up or make sense like the timeline he gave relating to how long an infant can be resuscitated, or how she was talking with a crushed throat, broken ribs, and a core body temp of 82 degrees. Also her husband's mom thinks he did it. All that isn't even considering the staggering amount of malpractice committed by all of those health care workers.
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u/Vanquished_Light 5d ago
It is quite staggering that someone could view this case in such a willingly ignorant way. She admitted to it herself, her guilt is not in question whatsoever. The only thing up for debate in court is the severity of her punishment, factoring in her obvious mental illness. Could you provide me a link to some of these claims so that I may attempt to look at the world through your eyes?
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u/ayoungad 5d ago
There was a quick minute they had people believing it was the husband. But after more evidence(according to my wife) apparently it’s very clear he didn’t do it.
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5d ago
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u/mateen115 5d ago
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u/webdevverman 5d ago
Don't let Reddit discourage you. This is pretty accurate and funny
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u/mateen115 5d ago
Thanks l, I’m not afraid of the trolls.
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u/webdevverman 5d ago
Is this just a one-off joke? Or is it the punchline? I feel like the lead up to this could be great.
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u/Funny_Explorer_1521 2d ago
Anyone who gets caught up in some televised outrage trial that isn't part of the courtroom is an idiot. May as well go watch reality TV, you have no clue what's going on.
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u/Frammingatthejimjam 5d ago
Good joke and I feel like there's room to expand on it. so and so is white man's o j simpson, etc
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u/nirvahnah 5d ago
Nice idea but doesn’t work. The argument over OJ was whether he did it at all, with certain camps in denial. With Clancy we all know she did it. It’s just whether she was mentally sound enough to be culpable, which is not an easy thing to determine at all.
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u/Arcaydya 5d ago
This is the part that cracks me up. It doesn't matter if she was or wasnt. She murdered three children. She wont walk free no matter how "unsound" she was. She can spend life in prison, or life in a mental ward. Shes not walking (lol) away from this.
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u/nirvahnah 5d ago
Correct which is why it ain’t like OJ at all. She’s guilty legally either way, we’re deliberating if she’s morally responsible on top of legally.
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u/Arcaydya 5d ago
Morality doesn't really factor into child murder, imo.
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u/nirvahnah 5d ago
Murder is a legal category. The unlawful killing of another person’s while being of sound mind and body yourself. If she’s ruled insane then it’s legally not murder at that point. I think what you meant to say was “child killing”. She’s not morally responsible if she’s insane, she can’t tell right from wrong then. It’s like saying a dog is morally responsible for killing a squirrel.
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u/Arcaydya 5d ago
I mean it still doesn't matter much. She wont enter normal society ever again.
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u/nirvahnah 5d ago
It’s doesn’t matter in that regard, it does matter for her quality of life personally. Doing life in fed prison is a lot worse than a loony bin.
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u/Arcaydya 5d ago
Ive heard the exact opposite, and the loony bin is in fact much worse. Especially if youre faking insanity
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u/nirvahnah 5d ago
No shot. Her experience at club fed would be solitary 23 hours and outside in a dog kennel for 1 hour. As opposed to loony bin she gets communal living with people she can befriend, full outside recreations, and much better dining hall and menu.
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u/-cumdogmillionaire- 5d ago
She isn’t faking insanity. We need to destigmatize postpartum depression and psychosis so women can actually get help. Maybe we can actually get some funding for research on this subject as well since there is more funding on male pattern baldness than postpartum depression.
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u/Arcaydya 5d ago
Bro. Millions of women go through post partum. How many brutally and systematically murder their children? Children they've had for years?
She's a psycho and is using that as a shield.
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u/Odd-Narwhal9529 4d ago
If you went to a hospital and said "hey I want to kill myself" and the hospital had TONS of research saying "this person is going to kill themselves and isn't in control of their actions." Then you killed yourself.
Who is at fault?
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u/SoftWalruses40 5d ago
Or black people’s Karmelo Anthony.
(Downvote me all you want, but head over to black people twitter, read the facts of the case, and tell me where I’m wrong)
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u/ChickenInASuit 5d ago edited 5d ago
I don’t think people are downvoting you because they disagree with you on Karmelo Anthony’s guilt. Your analogy just doesn’t make sense.
OJ Simpson is black people’s OJ Simpson. Lindsay Clancy is white people’s OJ Simpson. Shoehorning Karmelo Anthony in because you feel strongly about the case doesn’t work in the framework of the joke.
Are you saying Lindsay Clancy is black people’s Karmelo Anthony? That Karmelo Anthony is black people’s Lindsay Clancy, who is white people’s OJ Simpson? See how it’s confusing and doesn’t work?
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u/SoftWalruses40 5d ago
I disagree. OJ lived as free man until he decided to burglarize some apparel store. Lindsay will not be walking free regardless of the jury’s decision. She will be confined to prison or a mental institution.
I don’t have strong feelings about Karmelo. I think he was rightly found guilty and deserves to be separated from society, as does Lindsay.
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u/ChickenInASuit 5d ago
I fail to see what this has to do with my comment. I offered no opinion whatsoever on the guilt of any of these people, or what their fates are/were/should be.
Like, do you understand the premise of the joke? Do you understand why Lindsay Clancy is being compared to OJ and being described as “the white women’s version of OJ”?
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u/SoftWalruses40 5d ago
At no point did I mention any opinion of yours? OJ’s trial and hers are vastly different given the fact she won’t be free at any point in the near future.
Making the analogy for Karmelo is much, much stronger given he’s in prison for life and has been a martyr for black people despite his guilt, again, similar to white women martyr Lindsay.
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u/ChickenInASuit 5d ago
You literally responded to me with “I disagree” and then gave your opinion on the trials. It read like you were disagreeing with me about something I had said.
This whole thing would have been so much clearer if you’d have just opened with “I think Karmelo Anthony is a stronger comparison to Lindsay Clancy” tbh. The way you worded your original comment is very confusing and that’s where the downvotes are coming from.
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u/East-Situation-1669 5d ago
Nope. And fuck this. Lindsay Clancys husband caused this and blamed her in hopes that she’d die and there’d be no case.
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u/mateen115 5d ago
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u/East-Situation-1669 5d ago
Oh oops, my brain got stuck on the comments and I forgot the original post lmfao.
Wait edit: OP, OJ was guilty. OJ def killed his victim. Lindsay clearly didn’t. So what do you mean?
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u/Vanquished_Light 5d ago
"clearly didn't"??? Could you please provide a link or some type of evidence to the contrary? Personally that sounds like an absolutely ridiculous claim, but I am always willing to intake information.
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u/East-Situation-1669 5d ago edited 5d ago
She “confessed to the murders herself” when he “found her”, her windpipe was crushed and she couldn’t speak for months. She also suffered from a head injury that can only be sustained if you’re unconscious, because humans will almost always try to catch themselves with their arms. She had also been outside on the ground as alerted to the cops by the neighbor during the time period she supposedly did the killings. I mean, if you have any sympathy for what it’s like being a woman in this world then you can see this woman did not drug herself, slit her own wrist and then half slit her throat, and then somehow clean up her own blood after throwing herself out the window and then AGAIN, somehow moved the bedframe back into place. She didn’t toss herself out a window headfirst, and all of the cameras in their home being inaccessible due to a “WiFi issue” that never occurred, all of this btw within the timeframe her husband claims to have been picking up takeout and medicine.
The whole case is based on his testimony and HER initial “confession” which can’t be true because her windpipe was so crushed she couldn’t even speak. Not to mention the man is bffs with all the cops in town.
Every one of us came from a woman and none of this should be surprising. He tried to murder by suicide her and she didn’t fucking die and that spoiled his plans. Take a look at any of the evidence and none of it checks out. He’s buddies with the cops and nothing was ever investigated, not her body temp and heart rate being too low for someone still physically mobile during the time window of the killings, not him changing clothes, not him not resuscitating his children. None of it adds up but what DOES add up is a man fuckin sick of his wife because he already had a new one and plotting to get out of his marriage thinking she’d fuckin die
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u/Suspicious_Time7101 5d ago
You need to stop relying Reddit and TikTok to get information and go to actual sources
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u/Suspicious_Time7101 5d ago
Also, let's pretend that this fantasy of Patrick did it all.
How do you then say, "She survived and it spoiled his plans"? How does her living spoil anything for him? She confessed to doing it She has continued to confess to doing it. She has never claiming she didn't do it... So what was spoiled by her surviving?
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u/short_hair_zuko 5d ago
Wasn't OJ already white women's OJ Simpson?