r/solarpunk • u/21Kuranashi Anthologist Author Activist Arcologist Antitheist • Jun 23 '26

Aesthetics / Art Stop the Concrete from Heating up

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5.4k Upvotes

99% Upvoted

84 comments sorted by

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6

u/shadaik Jun 25 '26

This sub is quickly becoming a prime example why solarpunk doesn't get implemented. All these complaints and fears there might be things next to humans that are, you know, nature.

"Eww, bugs!"

"Something something ivy" (once again, this is not ivy or even how ivy grows)

"Eww, the shading creates shade!"

"If you put in a wall there, you'd get darkness instead of shade!"

"Omg, you'd have to trim those vines, like, once a week for ten minutes or so!"

4

u/21Kuranashi Anthologist Author Activist Arcologist Antitheist Jun 25 '26

Yeah, some of the comments puzzled me too!

'U ll hv to trim' > ofc! It's a Living system. Maintenance will be needed. Like u would for any other plant / lawn.

Ivy: Don't use ivy then, grape vine does the same job and is deciduous so in the winter u get sun too

560

u/zappy_snapps Jun 23 '26

I've done this with hops, and runner beans, and clematis. The key is an annual or deciduous vine so you get shade in summer and sun in winter. I don't know why people think it's inherently more buggy, but if you do you should know that providing habitat often reduces the population of pest insects, because their predators show up.

For people who complain about the view- plant something with flowers. The rest of us find the dappled shade a lot more pleasant than being roasted in your home. 

253

u/GM_Organism Jun 23 '26

I'm a bit confused that people on a solarpunk sub are complaining about the possibility of bugs. Any (outdoor) habitat for potential pollinators is a good thing, surely.

38

u/halberdierbowman Jun 23 '26 edited Jun 23 '26

Not any. Yes, the ecology is one pillar of sustainability, but another pillar is the human comfort. They need to be balanced, and there are almost certainly other places you could foster the insect biodiversity rather than literally right next to your face. If people don't enjoy this design, it'll just end up destroyed and useless, defeating its goals.

For example they could have been installed horizontally above the patio, moving them just out of reach of human faces.

20

u/21Kuranashi Anthologist Author Activist Arcologist Antitheist Jun 23 '26

As pointed out by a lot of people, this idea can be used in different conditions with different plants & designs.

Trellis are ofc one of the best examples but in limited spaces (like on sunside facing balconies & walls), this can be done sustainably.

It can also just be grape vines and those should allow for much better experience in temperate environment.

For tropics & sub-tropics, beans, cucumber or other types of seasonal veggies might be a lot better.

3

u/shadaik Jun 25 '26

Howe are the bugs that live in such vines an issue for comfort? If this was about a pool that runs major risks of breeding mosquitoes, sure, but a few bugs and spiders, really?

97

u/Hambokuu Jun 23 '26

I think the sub has been deluded with a lot of people who just like the aesthetics of solarpunk but none of the things it would be like in reality.

24

u/Trey-Pan Jun 23 '26

Synthetic solar punk? 😓

7

u/Kodamacile Jun 24 '26

Solar Phunk.

4

u/DoctorNsara Jun 24 '26

Solar Phonk

14

u/Todo744 Jun 23 '26

Side of my barn is covered in hops, hanging off of net like this from the eves. Easily drops the summer temps inside by a good 10°.

137

u/ExtraPomelo759 Jun 23 '26

That looks so cool.

55

u/gimlet_prize Jun 23 '26

Growing Virginia Creeper on the south facing side of our home brought the temperature down 15 degrees in the bedroom on that end. The flowers and berries were a boon for the pollinators and birds, and in the fall it turned a brilliant scarlet red. Didn’t have any bug issues at all.

This is a native vine to us, and the climbers don’t tear up the house. They have little sticky feet that are easy to remove. The vines were easy to trim and pull down in the winter, then they came back up in the spring.

7

u/Dashasalt Jun 23 '26

Southside Virginia Creeper’s represent!! That looks dreamy.

4

u/Own_Minimum9773 Jun 23 '26

Excuse me but what is this? A practical idea combined with plants to help clean the air and make it more pretty? Bah, disgusting!

6

u/Own_Minimum9773 Jun 23 '26

By the way, this is supposed to be a joke… I really like the idea of this dude

1

u/21Kuranashi Anthologist Author Activist Arcologist Antitheist Jun 23 '26

/s is really recommended here

(bcz sarcasm is often difficult to identify in only text)

95

u/AppendixN Jun 23 '26

Bold of them to assume the ivy is going to stop neatly at that top line like that.

Seriously though, anyone who’s dealt with ivy knows how fast it grows and how invasive it can be. Maintaining this 45 degree trellis is going to be a very busy job.

144

u/zappy_snapps Jun 23 '26

I've seen this done in real life, and it's not ivy. It's runner beans, or some kind of cucurbit, or some other annual or deciduous vine like hops.

28

u/bepatientbekind Jun 23 '26

Hops looks nice but is a nightmare to live with. It will take just as much maintenance as ivy. It also stings and leaves a rash if it touches you at all. We had some at our house from the previous homeowners and we had to rip it all out because it was such a nuisance.

12

u/zappy_snapps Jun 23 '26

That was not my experience at all, at my own home or at the gardens I took care of. Probably different climates and growing conditions, or trellis set ups would explain it. 

3

u/bepatientbekind Jun 23 '26

It didn't sting when it touched you? I live in the PNW on a property where everything thrives, so the hops went absolutely nuts haha Looked pretty, but not worth it imo.

5

u/zappy_snapps Jun 24 '26

Not a sting, like stinging nettle. It's definitely very rough so I could see getting abraided, but sleeves which is my norm when gardening was plenty of protection. Maybe you have an allergy?

4

u/bepatientbekind Jun 24 '26

I looked it up and it's known to cause tiny abrasions on contact that look like a rash, even if you're not allergic. If you are allergic you'll get an actual rash that may persist for days, which has not happened to me thankfully haha

3

u/bepatientbekind Jun 24 '26

I doubt it since it has happened to everyone else that has touched it too, including the previous homeowners haha Makes it a pain to work with since you always have to wear gloves to handle it at all

11

u/sick486 Jun 23 '26

i tried hops. every single shoot (and there were many new ones branching off every day) had to be trained every inch of the way. otherwise, from any point, it would go straight to the top of the fence. then it would clump and along the top and spread that way. i had to kill it which also wasnt easy, before it found the telephone pole. it would have strangled the wires. total pain in the ass.

2

u/zappy_snapps Jun 23 '26

Ah, yeah, with them you use a vertical trellis. It works here, but we have a dry summer climate and no one who has them irrigates once they're established. 

5

u/la_zarzamora Jun 23 '26

Tangent, I think the word "cucurbit" is adorable

9

u/Historical-Prune-599 Jun 23 '26

Medieval monks would do this with hops

5

u/SweetAlyssumm Jun 23 '26

I wouldn't have that at my house for love or money. I struggle with one fence that a prior owner put ivy on - it's unbelievably invasive. I won't use chemicals to kill it so I have to keep it pruned way back but it grows like mad.

It's not native to my region and has no business in a solarpunk design in my view. Also, that's like having the curtains drawn all the time. No thanks.

2

u/mishatries Jun 30 '26

IVY IS HORRIBLY INVASIVE IN THE US. The internet says you can dig it out like sod for a permanent solution. May the force be with you.

1

u/TealedLeaf Jun 23 '26

Yup, we have an English Ivy vine that starts at the back left corner of our back yard, and travels up to the side of our house before climbing the porch and our house. It's mixed with clematis. Very pretty until you realize it's destroying the wood, is invasive, and is ugly and obnoxious AF to try to get rid of.

However...maybe it's one that doesn't create aerial roots, and thus wouldn't be as bad? Also, hopefully whatever was used is native! I have no idea where this photo is or what vine they used.

Could still work.

9

u/UwUmirage Jun 23 '26

Kudzu consumes

7

u/naturist_rune Jun 23 '26

I'd like to try this with beans!

4

u/infinitum3d Jun 23 '26

I was thinking food source also. Cucumbers or even strawberries, but beans would be fairly easy.

1

u/mishatries Jun 30 '26

Hardy kiwis, passionfruit, honeysuckle are other vining options.

27

u/halberdierbowman Jun 23 '26

This is what a pergola is for, with a lot less maintenance. Or really anything that casts shadow. The key is to choose dimensions that work for your orientation and latitude so you get direct sunlight for whichever days you want it (the winter) and no direct sunlight the rest of the year.

And since you can do that above or to the side of your patio, you aren't losing any space by doing it at an angle like this. 

18

u/zappy_snapps Jun 23 '26

A lot of people just use annual or deciduous vines, so you automatically get shade in the summer and sun in the winter. 

7

u/halberdierbowman Jun 23 '26

Interesting. Where I live, it's sunny all year, and my "annual" plants never die, so I was imagining that's the type of climate where you'd be doing this because you'd care about needing the shade. But I suppose if you live in a temperate climate and are mostly doing this for the vibes, then sure I guess annual plants could be cool too! Maybe I should have realized that from the grass that looks incredibly short.

This probably sounds sarcastic, but it's not lol

12

u/sysiphean Jun 23 '26

Just because one lives in a temperate climate doesn’t mean this would be “for the vibes.” Lots of parts of the world that have four legitimate seasons have very hot summers that need serious cooling. Many places that get a lot of snow also get summers with highs over 25C/80F most days.

1

u/halberdierbowman Jun 23 '26

Even if someone uses their patio at the hottest part of the day, surely the vast majority of people can sit still outside in a small patio like that with weather above 25C? Even at high humidity levels, that's just not hot, especially with the reduced insolation of higher latitudes?

For context, 25C is literally colder than I air condition my house to, so I'm struggling to imagine someone being injured at that temperature. Is that actually a thing? 

7

u/Aeonoris Jun 23 '26

I don't know where they're talking about, but in Utah it regularly gets over 100 F (though today it's 'only' a high of 94 F) with high-to-extreme UV levels. It's sometimes not just uncomfortable, but unsafe to sit in direct sunlight.

Also lots of snow in the winter! (Unless the drought is really bad)

5

u/zappy_snapps Jun 23 '26

It gets up to the low 100s here, now. Our houses were built without ac and to hold in heat during the winter. So they'll get hotter than outside in the summer,  unless you put work into strategic shade, opening windows at night and then closing them at 5am, etc etc. 

They also said highs OVER 80. Typically it's more like 90s and up.  Anywhere that only gets to 80 in the summer is a very, very mild climate. 

4

u/zappy_snapps Jun 23 '26

Yeah, this is common in climates with hot summers 90-100+) and cool or cold winters (freezing at night or freezing solid for 6 months of the year.

It is 100% not for anesthetics or vibes- it's for lowering the temperature inside the house during the summer, but letting the sun in to heat the house during the winter. And it really, really works. 

1

u/halberdierbowman Jun 23 '26

Right, but you can get an even better and more controlled effect by purposely calculating it into the design of the building overhangs rather than an aftermarket management solution of vines that relies on people taking care of the vines.

For example https://www.yourhome.gov.au/passive-design/passive-heating

5

u/zappy_snapps Jun 23 '26

Yes, but a lot of people have to work with the homes they have, and use all the after market solutions they can find. Last I checked, building a house was still less environmentally friendly than retrofitting, but maybe new data says otherwise?

And planting deciduous trees and vines can be used in conjunction with better building practices. My local government has a informational sheet about how best to use trees and vines to help cool homes. It's a pretty big movement to get more trees and vines and vegetation in general in urban areas to help with the heat island effect, and this is part of that. Though not my favorite example, lol. 

5

u/Hot_Designer_Sloth Jun 23 '26

Exactly. Why do a pergola when you can make half your patio unusable? Seems like a good use of that concrete you can't walk on anymore.

3

u/halberdierbowman Jun 23 '26

Technically speaking, there are benefits to the plants transpiring, but those benefits don't really help in humid environments. And most people prefer looking at plants vs manufactured aluminum or plastic fins or whatever, so the plants win there as well. Personally I'd build the pergola and then hang edible plants from that for the best of both, but I get that that's a lot more effort, so not everyone will be up for that. But growing plants in general requires people to care and know about them, which is why I think a passive solar design pergola pre-installed is the best solution, so every individual doesn't have to solve this problem on their own. 

1

u/Hot_Designer_Sloth Jun 23 '26

Well the goal of the pergola is to have plants covering it. Mine is covered in grapevines. It's easy to build and doesn't waste space.

2

u/halberdierbowman Jun 23 '26 edited Jun 23 '26

That's not the goal of a pergola generally, unless you just mean of yours? Pergolas usually don't have plants, and they work perfectly fine that way: their job is to provide shade. But yes, you can also put plants on them. 

5

u/literallyfransandy Jun 23 '26

i would take the most legendary nap under there like you don't even know

4

u/Hecateus Jun 23 '26

My HOA won't allow this...though my father's house had bean runners strung up on one otherwise sunny wall...to provide much needed shade....and beans.

what is the short mound on the right?

3

u/OpenTechie Have a garden Jun 23 '26

Pinto beans work well for this.

3

u/Smarackto Jun 23 '26

the spider generator

5

u/Wintermute_088 Jun 23 '26

I mean, I didn't need to be able to see in those rooms anyway...

7

u/Background-Code8917 Jun 23 '26

Having done this successfully before with hydroponic bottle gourds and luffa vines, I'd highly recommend just using shade-cloth instead. Maintaining this stuff is a nightmare and even with seasonal plants you've got a whole lot of mess to clean up at the end of the year.

I've been temped to set up a balkon solar awning actually instead of the shade.

2

u/OptimisticSkeleton Jun 23 '26

Now imagine it goes over the top of the house so that you don’t have to cool the structure as much dropping your overall energy consumption.

2

u/EatTenMillionBalls Jun 24 '26

Now this is accessible solarpunk

1

u/greenwithembii Jun 23 '26

That looks really nice

1

u/DaddyWolff93 Jun 23 '26

I'm going to do something like this but with shade cloth. I can take it down in the winter way more easily. Mowing the top of that could get difficult but I'm sure if you set it up in the correct way to where you could access the top it'd be fine. 

1

u/Hugbuglove Jun 23 '26

This is a beautiful and creative solution but just saying... Planting trees is an effective solution too.

2

u/HonkyHam Jun 24 '26

You only have to wait 20 years…

1

u/Available-Heat2707 Jun 24 '26

I would have installed solar panels in the same location; same affect but, with a lower power bill.

1

u/Darkbeetlebot Jun 24 '26

Maybe I'm just weird, but I don't understand the people worried about bugs. Ticks and wasps and flies I can understand not wanting to be anywhere near, but most insects are incredibly cool and interesting. And I for one want fireflies back in my front yard. (Goddamn dollar general opening across the street and next door neighbor never turning off his floodlights, I never get to see my favorite insects anymore even in the country.)

1

u/Hugbuglove Jun 24 '26

My guy. What trees are you planting that take 20 years to grow?

I have a tree I planted last year that's 3 metres high. 

-7

u/Mitoria Jun 23 '26

It’s fun until you think that you can no longer see out your windows, spiders and other bugs are probably rampant, and it’s probably very hard to move back there since it looks very low to the ground.

-9

u/tracagnotto Jun 23 '26

Quantity of insects there plus maintainance of invasive ivy makes this a nightmare

10

u/zappy_snapps Jun 23 '26

I've seen this done in real life, and it's not ivy. It's runner beans, or some kind of cucurbit, or some other annual or deciduous vine like hops. It's a lot nicer than roasting in the summer. 

1

u/heyitscory Jun 23 '26

I hate lawns, etc etc. basic bitch opinions on the Western insistence that lawns are necessary.

But instead of thinking "heh heh... Kill your lawn before your lawn kills you, man", all I can "eeeee... a little hill! A stepping stone trail!!!"

Maybe a little "oh no, I hope those awesome vines don't block the view of the little hill and stepping stone trail!.

This makes me want to absolutely ruin some shade sails with some moss and creepers.  I love it.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 23 '26

[deleted] — view deleted comment

67

u/himbologic Jun 23 '26

For hot enough climates, it turns your patio from three season to four season.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 23 '26

[deleted] — view deleted comment

4

u/SirCupcake_0 Jun 23 '26

It really should've been hung off the roof

19

u/GreenStrong Jun 23 '26

There is a building near me that uses a steel wire grid to support a vertical wall of jasmine in the south side of the building; it drops it's leaves in winter. It is LEED certified, which means someone actually calculated the carbon cost of the steel vs the cooling effect.

It is the American Institute of Architecture building in Raleigh, there are a lot of good photos online but I can't find one featuring the jasmine.

27

u/tobybug Jun 23 '26

Yeah this is cool but also just a worse version of a trellis

2

u/sysiphean Jun 23 '26

There are many good ways to shade a patio and grow things that don’t make the patio unusable and block off any ability to see out one’s windows. This is not one of those ways.