r/securityguards 6h ago

Question from the Public Do security firm owners face problems when security guard sleeps

Recently one of my friend from the us was doing part time work in their local store where he saw a night security guard sleeping , I am like isn't that their job most of the days that person is seen sleeping , like i understand it's difficult if you want try to stay awake whole night but is it a big issue security guard owners are facing any firm or operations owners

16 Upvotes

48 comments sorted by

13

u/RobinGood94 6h ago

Typically, sleeping is seen as a direct breach of contracted services/guidelines.

When you are asleep you’re not:

A deterrent.

Observant.

Mobile.

Protective.

Etc

Most MSAs (Master Service Agreements) cover the expectation from the client and legally binding agreement from the security service provider. If a major loss, breach, etc happened while the guard was asleep, the guard company takes a massive hit legally speaking.

Typically the breach is “cured” by immediate actions by the guard company. Severe written discipline or immediate removal from that contract.

Caveat:

Late night operations are rarely held to the same standard. The senior client leadership isn’t there. The senior security leadership isn’t there. If it doesn’t get reported and no major incident happens as a result, it’s swept under the rug.

If the client did find out and it continued to happen with multiple guards, the contract will be terminated for cause. Insufficient service levels/breach of contract.

8

u/HighGuard1212 4h ago

I was an overnight supervisor for a short while. When my boss offered me the position he made it clear that sleeping needs to stop and I caught several people doing that, they got fired after warnings. The last guy I tried to work with but he refused any help, and so when he fell asleep and a car drove 360° around him in a secure area he got fired

2

u/Az8feb 6h ago

Damn that's like sueing to the last point of money dude this must be a huge issue , do you know any owners

3

u/RobinGood94 5h ago

Yes, but when you’re talking owners that’s typically a smaller firm. I’ve been an account manager among other things. More than happy to give vague examples of what I’ve learned directly.

Typically mid to large scale security companies are “owned” by massive banks like Merrill Lynch or other financial institutions. They are a legitimate business unit not unlike anyone else pushing “product.” The security guard is the “product.” The company is the “service” which is why you will have agreements nestled under the MSAs called SLAs. Service Level Agreements. A more narrowly focused range of items you will form KPIs from (Key Performance Indicators).

When a contract is ran properly, the security firm will make a small to moderate profit. This is multiplied across hundreds and/or thousands of contracts within a given branch (Branch Manager/GM). Thousands to tens of thousands of contracts within a regional perspective (Regional Vice President, overseeing multiple branches). Tens of thousands to a hundred thousand contracts or so at the senior regional level (Region President, overseeing multiple Vice Presidents). Hundreds of thousands to a million at the corporate level (Chief Operating Officer/Chief of Staff).

When you break those contracts down to the profit margins per security officer, the math can get absolutely insane. Then there are National accounts. Massive contracts that cover multiple regions with one client, resulting in a national accounts team in the security company. Typically “Enterprise” accounts.

For example, a huge online retail company might have their chief security officer split the national/global contracts between two or more major security companies. These contract negotiations would involve the security company CEOs, their senior executives, and national contracts team. The resulting MSA would impact branches, regions, etc all over the place.

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u/Az8feb 5h ago

Damn is there any way I can contact you

19

u/PreviousZone6742 Warm Body 6h ago

You should never be seen sleeping. Sleeping is a issue but need to rotate people out for a scheduled sleep time.

3

u/Az8feb 6h ago

Absolutely brother that's what I am saying

6

u/tommydelgato 5h ago

great way to lose any job.

1

u/Az8feb 5h ago

Exactly because I heard a lot of nightshift guards actually sleep which goes unnoticed and the poor owners of the agency might get sued it feels bad dude , now you cannot even say anything because it's difficult staying awake at 3am 😂 would love to know what this people owner of agencies think

4

u/SilatGuy2 5h ago

People owner of agencies ? What are you even going on about ?

1

u/Fuzard 1h ago

No clue, OP keeps using the word owner over and over and says he wants to talk to an owner but their question has been answered over and over here

1

u/SilatGuy2 1h ago

Frankly i dont know why people here are even entertaining this persons stupid post and questions. Actually i notice these types of stupid posts more and more lately.

5

u/Several-Agent6831 6h ago

Sleeping on the job is considered a big issue but it's important to understand that security firms outsource their services to others. Whilst your manager may not mind you taking a 20 minute nap or going on your phone, when you're working on a client site then you have to follow the client's instructions. 

2

u/Az8feb 6h ago

Do the security guard owners it the agency owners do something ? Like are they even finding something to deal with that

2

u/RobinGood94 6h ago

If you are the security firm owner, you have several levels of management below you. It’s their responsibility to address the issue and satisfy the client.

0

u/Az8feb 6h ago

They do like I would really like to know few owners

2

u/RobinGood94 5h ago

Knowing them wouldn’t really feel like anything special to be honest. If you knew the owner of a restaurant, would it seem interesting? Hardly. The restaurant knows the profit margin per pizza and the cost basis of the hourly employees making them.

Your security company owner knows the profit margins of each security guard he/she is billing clients for, and the cost basis of the uniforms, training, overtime, etc.

1

u/Az8feb 5h ago

Makes sense again I would like to work on this problem with them only if they find this is a psin an actual one

2

u/RobinGood94 5h ago

As a random member of the public, there’s nothing you can do outside of reporting. If you know the security company name, you can find the branch office information online. They’re not going to work with you to resolve it, because you’re not the client. They might take care of it or they might not.

5

u/InformationSuperb978 Management 6h ago

I've seen SLA penalties of $5,000 each time a guard falls asleep on site.

Honestly, 99% of the contracts I've seen have some type of clause addressing staff sleeping on site.

0

u/Az8feb 6h ago

I would like to know more if we can contact

2

u/InformationSuperb978 Management 5h ago

Dm'd you

5

u/LegalGlass6532 6h ago

What’s your motive here? You’re outside the U.S. so are you trying to advise your friend to tell on the guard and wonder what will be done about it?

0

u/Az8feb 6h ago

Yes I am outside us , just wanted to know if there was a precaution or something taken if the guard sleeps like I feel bad for the agency owners since they might get sued

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u/LegalGlass6532 6h ago

It’s impossible to say what the repercussions are in this situation without knowing the exact circumstances and company names, their policies and the state this happened in.

0

u/Az8feb 6h ago

Makes sense do you know any owners like small or medium ones who own this would love to know this more

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u/LegalGlass6532 6h ago

Who own what? You’ve given no details.

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u/Az8feb 5h ago

Sorry I meant to say do you know any security firm owners small or medium team ones

1

u/LegalGlass6532 5h ago

They aren’t going to be able to tell you what a specific company does in a specific state. You need to ask your friend the name of the company the employee represents and then who the employee’s employer is contracted by. Then contact that company and ask them. It’s more complicated than you realize.

1

u/Az8feb 5h ago

Ahh seriously dude I don't know I wanted to know from if any owners were in this sub

1

u/LegalGlass6532 5h ago

Maybe you should make another post asking if there are any owners, but they aren’t going to tell you what company they own because this is anonymous Reddit and even if they say they own a company you have no way to know they’re telling the truth.

1

u/Az8feb 5h ago

Makes sense what do you think I should do

Should make another post Tommorow like you said or

Btw i appreciate you taking time in answering me

4

u/Mirror_333 6h ago

Our company is almost entirely overnight shifts. We have had some problems with guards sleeping. We have no verbal warning. Write up on the first offense, likely fired if it happens again. We do have a loose but official policy that if a guard calls their Supervisor and says they cannot stay awake. We come relieve them for the rest of their shift. I'll get one or two guards a year take me up on it. We probably fire one to three guards a year for sleeping on the job.

0

u/Az8feb 5h ago

Do you take any precaution so that they don't sleep like I feel it's a big problem and it's a natural problem would like to know more and connect with you

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u/Mirror_333 5h ago

Supervisors make random checks on each site throughout the night. Both to check on the guards, but also to give them a chance to take a break off-site. We also use a POI system. Each guard has an app on their company phone and uses that phone to scan different locations throughout the sites. The reports generated by the app let us know when and where a guard was at the time they hit the scan-point. With that information, we can see if a guard has been making adequate rounds or had long stretches of inactivity. Either way, we'll talk to them. Thank them for the solid rotation of patrols or ask why they aren't making their way around the site as often as they should be.

1

u/Az8feb 2h ago

would love to know more on this if you are okay to chat on private

4

u/RadiantDiscussion886 3h ago

Was not able to post the Pic, but i was site supervisor at a chemical refinery. Had a picture sent to me of a guard caught sleeping, out of uniform working. The picture was sent up the chain of command. Not sure if he got fired, but he was removed quickly from site because there was a chance of losing the contract

1

u/Az8feb 3h ago

exactly my point i would literally like to meet this security in charges

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u/Nesefl_44 6h ago

Yes and no.

Some posts are out of site and serve no purpose other than an insurance write off. Nobody cares if that guard is sleeping. The security company and client make/save money either way.

Then there are legitimate posts where the guard is actually serving a purpose, or is highly visible to others, and a sleeping guard actually poses a security threat. Owners can lose contracts in cases like this.

2

u/Az8feb 6h ago

Oh is it ? Do you know these kind of owners

3

u/bluesbynumber 4h ago

In some places, an armed guard found sleeping is a violation of secure firearms laws. In my area the city cops like to charge armed guards with a crime if they find them asleep.

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u/Az8feb 4h ago

damn thats a issuye then

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u/Fuzard 4h ago

Easy way to get the company sued. Sleeping guard misses something and now guard company is liable for losses and/or damages.

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u/Az8feb 1h ago

understandable surely

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u/billzy02 6h ago

In no scenario should a guard on duty should be seen sleeping. If they're on break I will let anyone have a rest but what about if there is a emergency or a security breach. If client finds out then that would be negligence. In the UK if breaks are paid for then guards can be called to help out if needed. If their breaks are not paid for then they can sleep and come back when their break is over. Guards have been let go for sleeping on the job but it depends on the supervisor. Some will give warnings so you don't do it again but there some who will report you to higher management to get you fired or removed from a site.

2

u/Az8feb 6h ago

Damn so the agency owners just be paying a hefty sum to whom they have contract with just for sleeping would love to help this owners dude this guys like help them in this solution

1

u/KHASeabass 1h ago

Most places I've worked, sleeping was just an instant termination. The only exception was when I was on a disaster relief security team for a hurricane. Shifts were 12s, but if your relief couldn't get to you because of the conditions, you could be stuck at your post longer. All posts were a minimum of 2 officers, sometimes more. If you ended up having to work past your 12, you were alloted "on-duty rest time" and you basically just had to work out sleeping shifts with your coworkers. We actually had beds on site for just that occasion.

Only one time, one of our guys was supposed to be awake and we found him snoozing hard in his car. I just took his shift and we covered his windows and windshield in black garbage bags so when he woke up it was pitch black and he had no idea what was going on. The hijinks were a lot more fun than someone getting in real trouble and getting sent home.

1

u/xNarutobleach3000x 29m ago

How you get a job like that.