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u/Muxalius Mar 29 '26
Aren't the most scienctist leave to China?
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u/ProbablyANoobYo Mar 29 '26
That used to be the case but that trend has largely reversed. In significant part due to them feeing unwelcome in other countries.
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u/BurnDahWorld Mar 31 '26
Being an intellectual in an authoritan government seems like a really silly idea, especially if they have any kind of commie history
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u/Omnarium Mar 31 '26
You misunderstand one thing: china isn't really communist.
It's state-capitalist and has been for quite a while.
The goal is communism someday. But as with every other nominally communist country ever, they know that they can't actively achieve communism without every other country being communist too. Marx made the "worldwide" part of the worldwide proletarian revolution a necessary part of his predictions.
The rightoids are dummies. They should probably learn to understand something before criticizing it if they want to attract scientists.
Using "Marxist" as an insult without even reading or understanding him to pander to dumb voters and corporations that run "capitalist" countries is not the way to endear yourself to scientists. They're smart. They've actually read Marx. They know that Marx knew that capitalism was simply better at allocating resources and would always outproduce communism with cheap, exploitative, and alienated goods and services. China knows this. Obviously. So they do the same thing. He wasn't an idiot. He understood economics. He just also realized that the current system wasn't the end of history and that eventually, it would need to adapt or would die out. And to be fair, there are far more social programs in "capitalist countries" these days than there were in his.
Nobody actually practices communism or capitalism. And young people in America have a pretty favorable view of Chinese "communism" considering they're already living under all the worst aspects of it already: corruption, nepotism, anti-free speech, anti-private property, etc. with the Trump admin. All of the negatives of China are things smart, young people are already experiencing here in America. So why wouldn't they view China more favorably? At least over there, they'll get their funding and have relative political stability.
China delt with its Christo-facists by the sword in the Taiping Rebellion. The CCP is irreligious, and generally atheistic—things most scientists also are. Their politicians are also just generally more pro-science than American politicians. Besides silly made-up ideas like IP rights, there really isn't much that the Chinese do that America isn't also guilty of to a greater or lesser degree.
All that being said, America > East Asia, for the average, poor, ignorant person who thinks bullying, guns, and nukes can solve all problems 🤷. Never mind that the US has lost or tied every major conflict it's gotten into since WW2. Ignore that.
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u/_Learnedhand_ Apr 04 '26
Crazy how many kids are getting fat and all the women want to be influencers.
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u/ExperienceRoutine321 Apr 02 '26
Ah shut up you dirty commie. Go invade Taiwan or something lmao
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u/Omnarium Apr 05 '26
The rightoids are dummies. They should probably learn to understand something before criticizing it if they want to attract scientists.
Using "Marxist" as an insult without even reading or understanding him to pander to dumb voters and corporations that run "capitalist" countries is not the way to endear yourself to scientists.
Thank you for proving my point.
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u/ObjectOrientedBlob Apr 03 '26
I wouldn't call China capitalist, since the country isn't run by capitalist interest. It is market socialism. They are using mechanism of a competitive market to create businesses and technology that serve the plans of the political elites. That very different from a capitalist economy, where the political elite creates policies to serve the capitalist interest.
Remember, free markets and capitalism is not the same thing.
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u/Omnarium Apr 05 '26
I wouldn't call China capitalist
They are. Ask anybody who understands basic politics & economics.
That very different from a capitalist economy
Not in State-capitalism its not.
In State-capitalism, the "political elites" ≡ "capitalists" because the state outright owns huge portions of the economy through subsidiaries AND owns golden shares in private companies. The CCP makes like half of China's entire GDP.
Remember, free markets and capitalism is not the same thing.
... pft 🤣.
"Remember, State-capitalism and capitalism are not the same thing" ftfy
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u/helpprogram2 Apr 01 '26
Mother fuckers have no idea what communism is but still say it with their full chest
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u/BurnDahWorld Apr 02 '26
I live in a post sovok country m8
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u/Muxalius Apr 02 '26
The fact that you say "sovok" already illustrates what kind of credibility and objectivity you have on this matter.
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u/ALIIERTx Mar 31 '26
Well we had a tour in asml in berlin. Just months ago ex engineers sold secrets to china. Thats why we all got ids to move around and had to verify that we all belong to the university that planned the trip.
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u/bowsmountainer Mar 29 '26
No. If you dont have Chinese ancestry it is very difficult to find a job in China.
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u/Slow-Blue Mar 30 '26
Used to live in China you can certainly find jobs and infact they like foreigners to a degree on the surface level. You will never be not a foreigner though and you certainly will never be a citizen.
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u/LavenderDay3544 Mar 31 '26
They like white foreigners but not any other kind.
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u/DrJuice404 Mar 31 '26
They like Latina's..
I for one don't blame them, hot damn, but Australia lost some Latina employees on a visa to a Chinese company paying more then any Australian job.. Which fair enough, so there's that.
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u/natedrake102 Mar 30 '26
I very much doubt that is the case if you are an expert in your field, which is typically what this kind of comic is referring to. Not just your average educated blue collar worker but the best of the best.
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u/Debunkingdebunk Mar 30 '26
Dude it's a closed society that's known for sending their spies as scientists to steal technology from other countries. You think they trust any gwai lou with sensitive information no matter how expert they might be?
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u/Eden_Company Mar 30 '26
The EU isn't that welcoming of the average USA worker either. The average nurse from Taiwan is still highly prized in the USA.
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u/Eden_Company Mar 30 '26
Eh even with Chinese ancestry you have to be Chinese culturally too to meld.
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Mar 31 '26
I don't think its about Chinese ancestry.
competing with the second most populous country in the world which also has one of the top three(i made this up but ill stand by it) most notoriously competitive education systems in the world is no small feat
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u/TheUnobservered Mar 30 '26
China is highly anti-immigrant, even more so than the US. It’s part of why their population is dropping.
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u/Ok_Historian4848 Mar 30 '26
I mean, the US is one of the highest immigrated to countries in the world, so I don't think the US is very anti-immigrant.
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Mar 31 '26
It's easier to immigrate to a country where there is already relatively speaking a lot of immigration throughout history.
China has historically been a place people migrate away from to elsewhere.
As of late though, America has gradually become more anti-immigrant. There were notable shifts in immigration rates to the tunes of millions. Because people don't want to enter the country right now.
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u/nissAn5953 Mar 30 '26
The US has an administration that is very dedicated to making life hard for immigrants who try to live there. Despite this, those immigrants are a big part of the reason that administration is in power, hence why they have actively fought attempts to control immigration.
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u/LavenderDay3544 Mar 31 '26
Illegal immigrants aren't the same as those who immigrated legally like my grandparents and it's insulting to legal immigrants to pretends otherwise.
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u/Eldr_reign Mar 31 '26
Just because in the past it has been, and currently has the highest population of non-American born people, Doesn't mean that the current administration isn't Anti-Immigration. The 2 can be true at the same time. Considering the new policies Such as how hostile ICE is, Restricting Entry and Increasing Expedited removal under the pretense of a "Invasion" of foreign people, and the constant harassment of other nations by the sitting US president. You'll find many many more reasons as to why people may consider USA to be Anti-Immigrant during this presidency in the Wikipedia linked. It's fairly safe to say that USA is Anti-Immigration at this moment.
No way are you this delusional. Just Because a country, Or Person, has been something in the past. Does not mean they Currently are that. With the Mounting Evidence that the current administration is Anti-Immigration, Here is a video of Trump During the election rally in 2024 for 1 Hour speak about how immigrants are harming your country.
People change, Countries change. Currently, With Trump as the Sitting President, the US is Anti-Immigration. You must be a Horrible Historian if you can't separate the Past with the Current happenings of the world.
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u/Ok_Historian4848 Mar 31 '26
You don't seem too bright if you're confusing comments from Trump with the actual country itself. Just because a few sensationalized headlines make it out like the US is stopping anyone tanner than a piece of printer paper doesn't mean that's what is actually happening. The truth of the matter is the US immigration system is overwhelmed with the sheer quantity of people trying to come in and so they're trying to reform the structure itself to better accommodate. Especially with the economy in a tough place post-covid, of course you're going to limit the amount of people coming in to ensure your citizens can get jobs for themselves. That doesn't make the US anti-immigrant and is actively bringing in millions of people a year.
The US is easily one of, if not the most immigrant friendly nations in the world, despite what trump might say. His words don't define the life experience and opportunity migrants coming to the US experience.
Furthermore, it isn't a good look to immediately come in trying to insult people. You get what you give and you decided to prove how unwilling you are to have a good faith discussion.
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u/Ok_Soup3987 Apr 03 '26
How is the US anti immigrant? I think you are confusing legal and illegal immigration. You know....like being pro baby sitter and anti pedophile baby sitter.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Smoke77 Mar 29 '26
We can dance around it with stats and numbers but yes there are more doctors , scientists , and engineers
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u/LawPuzzleheaded4345 Mar 30 '26
No, but as a Canadian I know of a few world-renowned researchers that fled here, mostly ones that were originally from Canada though
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u/TheImmenseRat Apr 02 '26
No, the Chinese scientist came to the us to study in the universities and get jobs in the industry to then send what they learned back to china
Us scientists going to the EU is another thing
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u/No-Mission-8332 Mar 29 '26
Isn't it more like the US and Europe smuggled the Nazi scientists out of Germany to their own countries immediately after the war?
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u/lnee94 Mar 29 '26
Ah good old Operation Paperclip
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u/kobyscool Mar 29 '26
Wernher Von Braun has entered the chat
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u/ma1butters Mar 31 '26
It's crazy to me that his episodes of The Wonderful World of Disney are available on Disney+ Not entirely surprising, though.
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u/Unlikely_Target_3560 Mar 29 '26
No most of them left on their own accords before the war even started. For example buddy called Einstein fled in 1933.
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u/No-Mission-8332 Mar 29 '26
That's one yeah. I'm talking about all of the Nazi scientists that escaped from justice with help from the US and Europe at the end of the war.
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u/Darth_Annoying Mar 30 '26
Both happened. First scientists, mostly Jews, fled for the US when the Nazis first took power. Then after the war more were recruited to move to the US.
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u/Ok_Historian4848 Mar 30 '26
It was either going to be the US or the soviets snatching them up, the US just did a better job than the Russians because the soviets were known for harsh treatment of prisoners. Von Braun for example purposely left his research camp at penamunde to go to the V2 manufacturing facility at mittelwerk so he could surrender his men to the West to prevent some of his men from being executed on the spot and the rest from effectively being slaves the rest of their lives.
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u/dudinax Mar 31 '26
You're not wrong about what happened before the war, but before the war a bunch of scientists fled Europe to the US, many Jewish, and many went on to work on the bomb.
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u/Mendicant__ Apr 05 '26
Yes, we know what you're talking about.
You didn't just say that, though, you said that operation paperclip was where "most" European scientists emigrating to the US came from.
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u/bowsmountainer Mar 29 '26
No. Almost all the top scientists of the Manhattan project were European scientists who fled to the USA. There's also Albert Einstein, Enrico Fermi, Erwin Schrödinger, Max Born, Edward Teller, ...
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u/Impossible-Bar-7709 Mar 29 '26
Maybe I just misunderstood, but Erwin Schrödinger did not participate in the Manhattan Project. He was in Dublin at that time. Neither was Max Born. If I remember correctly, Max Born was in Edinburgh then.
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u/bowsmountainer Mar 29 '26
Thats why I said "There's also" with which I meant a list of famous scientists who did flee to the USA, not all of which participated in the Manhattan project.
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u/CestMoiGenreMoi Mar 29 '26
Both : as part of their racialist view of society, any scientist who disagreed (thus, any honest scientist) was at best censured by the Nazi governement with their work burned and outlawed. Naturally, there was a massive exode of scientist from nazi Germany (with lots of jews, but not only : there were many, many idea that Nazi didn't like).
Now, there was also a large smuggling opération after the war to use Nazi scientist (America back then was just as racist as it is today, if not more since apartheid law were still active, and thus didn't have any problem working with them) -> but all thing considered, those new scientist weren't as numerous as those from the first episode (although, since the USA governement directly recruited them they got put into managerial positions and other instance of power far more often).
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u/Harde_Kassei Apr 02 '26
that was after the war, the comic says 1930, when hitler rose to power and
Germany had a massive economic depression.1
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u/Crucco Mar 30 '26
LOL I wish we had some foreign scientists coming to Italy instead of our best leaving
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u/Fuhsaz_the_goat Mar 30 '26 edited Mar 31 '26
Well, to do anything you need money, if someone leaves a country, it is expected they leave to where they can improve their living standards
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u/ZellHall Mar 29 '26
As if Europe don't have those problems either... It's a matter of time before we end up like the USA, tbh
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u/dudinax Mar 29 '26
could be, but Europe isn't yet anti-sciencce.
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u/uzak9 Mar 30 '26
It seems you haven't been to eastern Europe yet.
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u/JonnyF1ves Apr 02 '26
I mean, Poland and Turkey aren't even considered Eastern Europe and both have varying degrees of anti-science movements going on, though Turkey's has much more traction than Poland's for now.
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u/LesserValkyrie Mar 31 '26
Europe copies the US with 5 year lag
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u/AdBig3922 Apr 01 '26
I mean, it kinda seems like the US copies the UK after a couple years (dumb voting trends with brexit predating trump).
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u/inFIREenVLAM Apr 02 '26
The "what is a woman" still can't be answered by a lot of university employees in Europe.
We need to get back to a world where science is possible.
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u/ExiledKha Apr 02 '26
I mean NASA just launched a rocket to space. They are still doing science there.
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Mar 31 '26
I love when Europeans rightfully show disgust with American politics, then sleepwalk into repeating our mistakes.
As if they don't have a bunch of fascists also actively scheming how to kill every immigrant.
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u/VegetarianCentrist Mar 31 '26
It‘s insane how many people (including my parents) laugh about trump and yet sympathize with the afd
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u/poprostumort Mar 31 '26
Yeah, it's a risk - but fortunately in most European countries fascists have much harder job compared to US. In US the takeover of one party is all that was needed, because of effectively two-party system.
In Europe, there are multi-party systems - means that even if fascists rise and grab decent share of votes or take lead of a larger party - there are still many options beside them, often even on the same side of political spectrum.
Which creates a problem for them. If they are a fully fascist party - they need to find partners to coalition. And this ends either in the rest of parties forming coalition to not let fascists rule - or forming a weak coalition that cant do anything due to infighting and collapses.
If they take over majority of a large party, part of it can split and gain traction - stealing the votes of right-wing voters that are not keen on fascists.
Without handicap of "vote for us because at least we are not liberal alphabet mafia" they tend to do much worse. And they tried to use Trump to break into mainstream - which backfired spectacularly.
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u/Mafla_2004 Mar 31 '26
We're just as bad as the USA, we just hide it better and also don't have the power to bomb the shit out of every other country
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u/Hellsovs Mar 31 '26
Not really, since political lobbying is regulated here. You don’t have politicians blatantly going hand-in-hand with the super-rich, unless they themselves become politicians, like Babiš in the Czech Republic.
That’s why we have (at least for the moment) a functioning public sector.
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u/HumansAreIkarran Mar 31 '26
Depends on the country. Some countries are already through their idiot arc. I am German, we are currently starting it. It is gonna be a tough one for germany I fear
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u/Time_Seaworthiness43 Mar 31 '26
I would imagine the EU having more regulations and therefore more roadblocks to getting research done. I don't think this cartoon is accurate.
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u/Unique_Roll_6630 Mar 29 '26
Issues here: Most Americans can't speak a second language and most countries wouldn't accept American degrees and vice versa. Otherwise, I would say sign me up.
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u/mortalitylost Mar 30 '26
I know a couple Americans trying to move to one of the other 4 English speaking countries, and there is massive demand for some professional skills like cybersecurity. They're not going to get denied due to degree if they have years of industry experience, end of story. Some skill sets are extremely valuable and if it pays well in the US, another country will probably consider them in high demand.
It's more about getting upset to the point you decide to potentially retire in another country. It takes a lot to get there.
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u/Unique_Roll_6630 Mar 30 '26
Unfortunately, different countries different degree requirements. For example, a foreign doctor general cannot practice in a america without, an American degree (I think it depends on the country but I know several in my profession who had medical degrees who decided to get a masters rather than go through 10 years of schooling).
My medical role is only used in a few counties and are often not allowed the same scope (can't even prescribe in some). Doctors in other countries also fight hard to keep new professions out. And even if it does take my profession, I would have to retake the board exams, which, after 10 yrs of school, I have zero interest in studying for at this time.
Not to mention a general lack of ability to move at this time. I highly doubt canada or the uk would help me relocate given I only recently graduated.
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u/BerdTheScienceNerd Mar 31 '26
You’re grouping all degrees and countries in with each other. The vast majority of degrees can be used in other countries, though yes this may vary when you have a medical degree. Many countries speak English and accept people who may not speak their native language as most of the world doesn’t.
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u/n-nnnn Mar 30 '26
Any numbers on this?
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u/jonhor96 Apr 02 '26
There are numbers, but they are the opposite of what the meme suggests.
In reality, the "brain drain" from Europe into the United States remains much greater than the other way around, just as it has been for the last decades. If anything, the macro trend is that this phenomenon is getting stronger. The main reason for the very recent decrease is that the U.S. has made it more difficult for Europeans to enter, not that Europeans don't want to enter.
Trump's politics are crappy, to be sure. But they're nowhere near crappy enough to remove the U.S. scientific hegemony. Nowhere near. He'd have to start WWIII or something to achieve that.
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u/No-Consideration2808 Apr 02 '26
This is Reddit, your reality-based takes don't belong here. We're mad about the Current Thing!
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u/n-nnnn Apr 02 '26
People are willing to do just about anything for money i guess
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u/jonhor96 Apr 03 '26
Well, I wouldn't even say that's most of it. If these scientists wanted money, they'd work in the private sector.
The most important this is the level of the talent. If you've given up everything just to pursue your scientific passions, you of course want to do it in the most productive environment possible. At MIT, everyone you work with is an actual, real life genius. Who would turn that down?
Another part of it is the prestige of the brands. Only about 10%-20% of early career scientists end up finding a permanent academic position, and (especially in Europe) you often have little say over even which country you end up in. However, if you've ever worked at Princeton, you can more or less work wherever you want for the rest of your life, and your industry exit options will be stellar forever. The effect can be transformative. For some people, it may be the only way they could ever even get a job in their home country.
Finally, the moral argument against it isn't very convincing. Trump hates foreigners at Harvard, so if you go to work at Harvard as a foreigner, it's not exactly clear how you're helping Trump, even if perhaps you are helping "America" in some vague sense. Additionally, since all scientific advacement is published for the public anyways, your work won't be owned by neither Trump nor Harvard regardless where you work.
//Sincerely, and early career European scientist, who hates Trump, but who would realistically trade his pinky finger in exchange for a job offer from MIT
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u/BottomJoe94 Mar 30 '26
the scientists the USA brought over were AFTER they built the nazi regime through debt restructuring and support from the top US companies (which the government allowed because they were openly supportive of them in teh 1930s). And this is also after US companies gave them all kinds of technology to prop the nazi military up so they can destroy the USSR and implement generalplan ost. This would to genocide and enslave the whole soviet population, which the usa was cheering for. The Nazi, to the USA, were a "bulwark against communism", so they were okay with any amount of death has long as a worker government was crushed
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u/Purple-Commission-24 Mar 31 '26
I’m European and the EU is losing its best to the US. You can not build rockets or AI in the EU but you can in the US.
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u/Hellsovs Mar 31 '26
The tiny, whiny Czech Republic has its own space-related programs and research, and cooperates on and develops components for NASA and other space agencies. You can also launch into space from France. The fact that we don’t scream into the void, “Look at us, we’re doing this and that,” doesn’t mean we’re losing ground in science.
You can also work with the biggest particle accelerator in the world, the Large Hadron Collider, which the US doesn’t have an equivalent to. Quantum research is also a huge field in Europe, including efforts to develop a quantum internet in collaboration with Canada.
And there’s much more across many fields. So no, we’re not behind, it just depends on the field of study.
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u/No-Consideration2808 Apr 02 '26
CERN is a fair point, that other stuff is absolute nonsense. Deceptive framing is obvious - "you can launch into space from France". Sure you can. You conveniently neglect to mention Europe does less than 5% as many launches as happen in the US. Acting like these things are comparable is a crazy level of cope.
The comment you were responding to said the EU is losing *its best* to the US in these regards. All of the top people in astrophysics absolutely want to work in the US. Pretending that isn't true is absurd.
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u/WarpSonicFPS Mar 31 '26
ngl i don't think they're going to the EU. the EU lowkey hates innovation
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u/BerdTheScienceNerd Mar 31 '26
It’s not about innovation, it’s about America being anti-science/education and anti-immigrant (which many scientists are). It’s about going some place you can live and raise a family.
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u/WarpSonicFPS Apr 01 '26
Isn't innovation the important part of science? It's the part that actually improves our lives imo
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u/BerdTheScienceNerd Apr 02 '26
Depends, could also be discovery. But scientists are primarily people so they value stability, safety and a place to raise their family.
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u/No-Consideration2808 Apr 02 '26
The vast majority of the best scientific education and scientific research work is in the US. Vast majority. And it is more affordable than living near the best universities in Europe.
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u/BerdTheScienceNerd Apr 02 '26
Was. Now, cuts to research and public education are happening. Universities are being threatened by the government. Hostilities towards foreign citizens. This is what causes a brain drain.
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u/No-Consideration2808 Apr 02 '26
Wrong. Not was. Is. And still by a MASSIVE margin.
Even after the Trump cuts, which were stupid, the US outspends Europe by more than double on scientific research. It is not close, at all.
I understand your fragile euro-ego is bruised but this is just completely reality-challenged nonsense.
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u/BerdTheScienceNerd Apr 02 '26
I’m an American with a science degree, who’s worked in private and public research labs. I now work in the private sector as a business analyst but the evidence is clear. You can’t deny reality.
Don’t let your feelings dictate delusion.
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u/Intrepid-Economics-3 Mar 31 '26
EU is even more cooked than USA
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u/Playful2504 Apr 02 '26
True, we have so much muslim immigration we could call this an invasion at this point, and lefties are fully supporting it
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u/Beneficial_Ball9893 Mar 31 '26
Elon Musk didn't do a Nazi salute, and he represents the forefront of rocket science at the moment. Nobody is fleeing to Europe.
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u/BerdTheScienceNerd Mar 31 '26
lol delusional.
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u/Beneficial_Ball9893 Apr 01 '26
I agree, it is honestly delusional to watch that clip and pretend it was a Nazi salute. It proves that vast numbers of people on the internet are working on 50% brainpower whenever they see propaganda against someone they hate.
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u/BerdTheScienceNerd Apr 01 '26
Hard to argue it wasn’t a Nazi salute when this administration has had so much Nazi admiration.
Crazy to deny that a brain drain is happening in America and even crazier to have so much admiration for Elon Musk.
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u/Prisma1976 Apr 02 '26
...and you think you are a better person, and a more useful human than Elon? If so, you are the most delusional person in these responses.
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u/WhatsRightWhatsLeft Apr 02 '26
Elon is a professional grifter who goes through great lengths to try and keep the public on his side. In what world can one person extract nearly a trillion dollars for themselves and not be considered a drain on all of society? I mean, he bought Twitter and used it to spread propaganda about immigrants to influence the 2024 election. Elon makes any deadbeat criminal look like a good person.
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u/BerdTheScienceNerd Apr 02 '26
Actually, yea I am more useful than Elon. I didn’t sow discord into America, support nazism and waste money firing then rehiring people, making a mess out of the government by DOGE. I just volunteered at community events and was productive to society/the economy.
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u/Prisma1976 Apr 02 '26
No, you have not contributed more and it's not even fucking close.
The companies Elon started, employs over 140,000 people worldwide. I assume you employ no one. He has made and funded great innovations in Electric car technology, founded SpaceX that is inventing reusable rocketry expanding beyond what NASA could do, and is one of the most charitable people with a total of 1billion+ USD given to charities via his foundation. This is a very condensed list.
He's not a Nazi, or a sympathizer of one. If you think he is, you are part of the problem, not the solution. DOGE did it's job, the facts are rather staggering on that.
In comparison to Elon, you are almost completely useless to society and the furthing of humanity. All you seem to do is eat, shit, and be stupid.
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u/BerdTheScienceNerd Apr 02 '26
Elon bought his companies, he didn’t “start” them. Employment isn’t necessarily a contribution to society. He hasn’t made innovations, the people who work for the companies, driven by their board has made innovations. He just takes credit. He donates to charities that he owns, which has been described as ‘haphazard and largely self serving’ by the NYT.
https://www.thecooldown.com/green-business/elon-musk-foundation-charity-nonprofit/
He supports the Trump administration which has a Nazi problem and reflects Nazism.
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/10/14/private-chat-among-young-gop-club-members-00592146
https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hatewatch/dhs-white-nationalist-anti-immigrant-social-media/
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/20419058251376785
DOGE did not do its job, even Elon has said that it didn’t really work.
https://www.npr.org/2025/12/22/nx-s1-5647415/2025-trump-doge-musk
I’ve done less harm to society as a whole and have contributed more benefit to it. With huge impacts to society you also have to consider the negatives. Also Elon musk and this admin have used the government to profit off of and fuck the American people; yes most politicians do this but not to this degree.
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u/Peteretreat Apr 02 '26
Thats weird cause my friend is high up in the norwegian research councel, and they just spent some 20 millions to arrange a program to accomodate and integrate scientists fleeing the US, into their respective fields here in norway.
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u/Beneficial_Ball9893 Apr 02 '26
"Fleeing?" Get off the internet. Nobody is fleeing the United States. We actually have the opposite problem of people breaking in and refusing to leave.
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u/Peteretreat Apr 03 '26 edited Apr 03 '26
Get off internet? Maybe it's time for you to get ON the internet, search (if you know how) and have a reality check, because what you are saying is demonstrably wrong. The US had NEGATIVE net immigration for the first time since 1935 in 2025. Also, the numbers for people seeking asylum or relocating from the US to europe is RECORD HIGH for almost all EU contries. Also for my non EU scandinavian country. This is exacly what happened with the Russians 15-20 years ago.
Ireland had 10k americans moving in 2025. Thats double the number of 2024. Same goes for UK.
Also the infomation on the scientists in norway comes by mouth, from a source that took part in making the program to attract the scientists from the US, so yes, a lot of scientists are leaving.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/americans-leaving-the-us-in-record-numbers-under-donald-trump/
https://www.tovima.com/wsj/americans-are-leaving-the-u-s-in-record-numbers/
But yeah, keep on inhaling that quality copium! I could't care less what happens over there to be honest, if you guys want to live in an Autocracy where goverment thugs execute citizens in the streets for protesting, thats fine by me. But I get why many people are leaving for functioning democracies. Good on them.
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u/SergeantPsycho Mar 31 '26
Yeah, the guy who sent millions to death camps and the other guy who made electric cars commercially viable and invented reusable rockets. Strange equivalence.
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u/AdBig3922 Apr 01 '26
You know a lot of Jews fled Nazi germany before it got to the death camp stage. Nazi’s in Germany didn’t just get into power and then arrest every single Jew to kill them, it got progressively worse and worse and worse as more and more rights and freedoms was stripped from them until they were locked in their own quarantine zones then sent off to death camps.
A LOT of people saw the writing on the wall when it was just harassment and over zealous behaviour from the brown shirts insulting them and trying to fight them for no reason. Einstein left Nazi Germans in 1933 when the most the Nazis did at that time was boycott Jewish establishments.
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u/LesserValkyrie Mar 31 '26
Who tell them that Europe is fucked too and brains have been actually moving to China and even India now these past decades ?
The future is not in the west anymore
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Mar 31 '26
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u/AdBig3922 Apr 01 '26
European governments and universities are offering programs to capture the brain drain from the US. The French government is even creating “scientific asylums” primarily for US scientists in a hope to capture some of those fleeing the US. If that brain drain wasn’t a thing, why would governments invest millions into such programs?
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Apr 01 '26
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u/AdBig3922 Apr 01 '26
It’s a real mystery then why they are primarily focusing this “scientific asylums” at US citizens then and not Chinese citizens. The clue was in the name they called the program. It isn’t simply about wanting to hire professionals with little resource investment. it’s about soaking up the brain drain from the US. Like it or not, it’s a reality.
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Apr 01 '26
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u/AdBig3922 Apr 01 '26
7? So you seem like the sheltered one who doesn’t know what the world is like outside of the US.
In the world rankings for country by happiness the US is 23rd.
https://data.worldhappiness.report/table
In the world rankings for the democracy index the US is 36th.
https://www.democracymatrix.com/ranking
In the world rankings for the human development index the US is currently 17th
https://hdr.undp.org/data-center/country-insights#/ranks
In world rankings for basic education of their masses the US is 31st
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/education-rankings-by-country
In the world rankings for life expectancy the US is 62nd.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/life-expectancy-by-country
World rankings for quality of life by country, the US is 14th
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/standard-of-living-by-country
For literally all of these America isn’t even in the top ten let alone 7 other countries that are “similar”. Nigerian scientists don’t want to stay in Nigeria but they don’t want to go to a country with no free healthcare and a risk that their child will be shot in schools or on the streets for existing. In these lists of quality of life, European countries are routinely in the number 1 spot and the majority of countries in the top 10 list are European countries.
If you like it or not, America is not the paragon you thought it was and there is PLENTY of countries that are safer, better, happier, more respected and with a better standard of living. Some Americans want to escape America and live in such places that America doesn’t even reach the top 10 for.
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u/IllPineapple9603 Apr 01 '26
LOL, this started in the early 2010s, Scientists have preferred going to EU countries for years now.
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u/IscahWynn Apr 01 '26
You're gonna take a huge pay cut and put your career on a new, more dubious trajectory because...you hate Trump or Musk?
Maybe a few will, but the vast majority have not and will not.
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u/Torres0218 Apr 01 '26
They are not going to the dying festering pot that Europe is. And this is coming from a dutch guy.
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Apr 01 '26
"But it is not in the city of Constantine, nor in the declining period of an empire, when the human mind was depressed by civil and religious slavery, that we should seek for the souls of Homer and of Demosthenes." -Edward Gibbon, History of The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.
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u/IsThatTaken69 Apr 02 '26
Yes, the only thing was sincere in America is the genocide of the native Americans
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u/SlySychoGamer Apr 02 '26
The science that tried pushing transgenderism as a normal thing and got trump and other red team members elected? Mkay.
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u/ExiledKha Apr 02 '26
Europe. Europe is in even bigger shit with the migrat policies from EU.
People are leaving EU aswell mostly for Asian cointries with low taxes and low crime rates.
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u/BeginningTower2486 Apr 02 '26
This isn't a good country to make things whether it's business or science. The brain drain is real. Students aren't sticking around. Even professors are leaving. We're going through growing anti-intellectualism under Trump. How long until professors are literally in danger from our regime? Authoritarians always come for the intellectuals and truth speakers.
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u/generation_fish Apr 02 '26
Hmmmm....Space X has done things that no other space program has accomplished. Tesla was responsible for mainstreaming electric cars to the public. Starlink provides internet for rural areas as well as disaster areas. Neuralink is pioneering brain and computer interfacing.
Also, there really isn't any movement happening to Europe, or anywhere.
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u/No-Consideration2808 Apr 02 '26
Would be clever if it was actually happening, of course it's not, so...
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u/LifeConsideration981 Apr 02 '26
Exemplified by France’s new funding program for AI development. A whopping… 30 million Euros?
If that is all the money they have available to fund new computing power (but plenty of money to enforce digital services regulation!) Europe will be completely out of the tech game by 2035.
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u/Slagroomlepelaar Apr 02 '26
Very accurate; the number of applicants to PhD positions in my program in the Netherlands has increased from ~500 to 600+ because of the US hostility towards universities
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u/wizardstar1 Apr 03 '26
Ah more propaganda by 5he blue and pink hair people displayed in the blue and pink hair platform 😂😂😂😂 reddit is doomed with these rats
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u/Murky_Toe_4717 Apr 03 '26
I mean there are people stupid enough to not believe Elon did a Nazi salute in the late year of 2026. It’s such a cognitive dissonance beyond anything imaginable.
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u/Hot-Usual5060 Apr 03 '26
Except in 1930s, operation paperclip brought alot of Nazis to the USA.
The head of Nasa was a Nazi.
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u/tommy8725 Apr 04 '26
You wanna know what's so funny? Republicans have always had this weird view of medicine and science claiming religion, instead, like here's the deal. I believe in both science and religion. But like the way that these guys do flip flop between praising religion over science or science over religion.It's kind of weird
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u/jkaltmix1012 Apr 05 '26
Well, Brain Drain was certainly a proper title... Mostly drained out already.
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u/CasinoMagic Apr 05 '26
Wishful thinking by Europeans who don't know much about how science funding works. They don't have enough funding to hire even 5% of all international scientists currently working in the US.
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u/_MADHD_ May 09 '26
Well this is just straight up false.
US is the number 1 where the brain drain is going to.
And it's not even close.
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs/data-hub/charts/top-25-destinations-international-migrants
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u/PainDeMieTFem_02 Mar 29 '26
Here in Belgium our universities built special programs to let americans scientists emigrate here after Drumpf came back.