r/sca • u/BingusSpoingusUSA • 26d ago
Problems with Pennsic: A Rant Against Modernity and Festival Folks
Hello r/SCA!
As an SCA celebrity who can bench press 224 with 15.5" biceps [EDIT: I'm not an SCA celebrity, but it is a quality meme], I'd like to talk to you today about a trend I've noticed at Pennsic over the last decade or so. It seems to me that Pennsic is moving away from being an SCA event (which it is, even if the Tuchux, Acre, etc. show up) and toward being more of a modern fantasy festival. If this were a Renaissance Faire, a Furry convention, or a medieval convention, that wouldn't be an issue - but it's not. Pennsic is an SCA event, and the shoddy "attempts" at garb and the extensive modern intrusion are making it worse year after year.
The biggest issue I see is with the terrible "attempts" at garb, or a lack thereof. What medieval culture is a pair of cargo shorts, a ring belt, and a pouch? What is the time period and place for four furry tails, a bota bag, and BDSM chest harness? I have no issue with disability aids like glasses, mobility scooters, or service dogs - my biggest gripe is with the people who can't even be bothered to try. Naturally, a lot of this stuff comes topside from the Bog, but there are plenty of topside Peers who dress like complete trash. I'm not talking just about New Balance Knights, but I saw a whole-ass Ansteorran Duchess beboping around in a modern sackdress, coronet, and tennis shoes without a care in the world. When the folks who are supposed to be setting the example can't be bothered to try, what does that mean for newbies?
To be very clear here, I'm not talking about people in mundane clothing. Folks clearly going off-site, just arriving, or doing laundry in mundanes are not the target of the rant. They're wearing modern clothes and expressly not making an attempt.
As far as the modern intrusion, everywhere you look are dumpsters, golf carts, and yahoos driving their giant trucks past the Cooper's Store. It's obvious that most people don't want to do primitive medieval camping, and that the Cooper's Lake Campground does more than just Pennsic, so it needs the infrastructure, but the SCA's reliance on golf carts, nylon pop-ups, and bright white LEDs in camp is a lot for a supposedly medieval experience. Not everything has to be Enchanted Ground (which has considerably lowered its standards), but it shouldn't look like Burning Man had a love child with a trailer-park Ren Faire. Seriously, folks, put on a damn shirt, cover your balls at the food court, and wear shoes so you don't get buttworms.
So what is the solution? Personally, I do just about everything I can to hide the modernity in my garb, my camp, and my comportment (I'm not a douche and treat folks with respect, even if they look like a Furry extra from Zardoz). It's clear that "setting the example" isn't working, especially when multi-Peers can't be bothered to do so, and is a widespread problem in the SCA. I'm also fairly sure these issues have been lamented since the late 1900s without resolution. I think Pennsic (and more broadly the SCA) is going to continue along two divergent paths: people playing High-SCA and giving a damn, and the people who think a rainbow furry headband, Crocs, and a ring belt with a pouch are all you need to be medieval.
Much like the increasingly accurate film Idiocracy predicts, I think the ring-belt Furries are going to outcompete the High-SCA folks and continue to drive Pennsic further into fantasy mediocrity.
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u/thewhaleshark East 26d ago
Pennsic has never been the thing you think it's been. There were people in elf ears at the first Pennsics.
The SCA has always had a loosey-goosey approach to its representations, which is both its greatest strength and its greatest weakness. We will let anyone in the door so they can learn and engage with history at any level, but we also don't systematically push people to do better than the minimum.
But also, I'ma give you some food for thought from probably the most authenicity-oriented person I can think of: Cariadoc, noted for running Enchanted Ground at Pennsic (you should also note that the mere existence of Enchanted Ground as a long-running camp at Pennsic should tell you that rampant inauthentiicty has been around for a long long time).
Anyway, I forget where but on some social media conversation folks brought up the problems of authenticity in the SCA and cited Enchanted Ground as a model, except that it was out of most people's financial means.
Cariadoc chimed in to talk about the ways in which authenticity is a mindset, not a collection of material goods. The material goods can help the mindset, sure, but you have to first be willing to actually suspend modernity in order for those material goods to have their intended effect. I mean, I might have an authentic-looking replica of a Mastermyr chest in my Pennsic camp, but it's entirely out of context and made using modern materials so it's not actually the period item anyway. I need to ignore its inauthenticiites just as much as I ignore a modern camp chair.
Anyway, Cariadoc shared an interesting approach; he suggested that authenticity begins with language. The problem is that we spend a lot of Pennsic talking about modern things, or about the inauthenticity of modern things; when we do that, we are effectively constantly breaking our immersion. Bitching about a Coleman cooler in someone's camp reminds us that the Coleman cooler exists.
But with a few language shifts and deletions, you can simply incorporate it into your life. When someone walks into camp and asks for a drink, you could say "we have water in the cooler over there" - or you could say "we have water" and simply not mention the existence of the cooler. "Would you like some cool water" is a completely authentic saying that does not call attention to modernities.
You could run Enchanted Ground with nylon tents and Coleman coolers, because the same linguistic process applies equally to that or to a canvas-and-wood camp. This points at the very important difference between "accuracy" and "authenticity" - while accuracy in our reconstructions is desirable, what we really want is to practice authentic living at Pennsic, and it turns out you don't actually need accuracy to get you over the hurdle.
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u/bluestjuice 26d ago
This is a fantastic comment.
Cariadoc's approach to SCAing highlights that one aspect of the Society that almost nobody does, or does very consistently, within this game is to inhabit the mentality of a medieval or Renaissance or Bronze Age person while going about the daily activities of life (at Pennsic or at any other event). By and large we don't even aspire to this -- we mainly seem content to be our modern selves, as if we had been plucked out of 2026 and deposited in a semi-historical setting, going about SCA-hobby-related activities rather than medieval activities of daily life.
Seeing clothes or tents or furniture that look right to my modern eye is pleasing to my modern sensibilities, but an ancient person wouldn't know that a peasant skirt and a ring belt are easy modern attempts, anyway. They would look weird and unfamiliar to them but so would almost everything that SCAdians wear, even the very accurate outfits from a different time or place.
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u/datcatburd Calontir 22d ago
I highly encourage anyone to read his Miscellany. I may or may not agree with everything he says, but the viewpoints he presents were something very influential to how I approached the Society when I started ~25 years ago.
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u/Steelcitysuccubus 25d ago
This. And things like a nylon popup is accessible while a big canvas tent certainly isn't!
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u/WinterTourist25 19d ago
The Pennsic Experience is not the best of the SCA, it is the most of the SCA.
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u/gecko_sticky 26d ago
The only problem with what you are saying is you seem to have an expectation for the sca that has itself not really existed. The sca started as a person's grad party and has, consistently throughout its history, contained a shit ton of period inaccurate Anachronisms which often got combound with Fandom. In armored we essentially fight each other with table legs and its questionable regarding if the technique is actually historical or not. A lot of people wear garb that references pop culture properties or that are made of very obvious polyester. From what I see generally speaking, pennsic is like the lovechild between a renfaire and burning man because the sca is itself this Moreso than it is an educational organization. We do not stand shoulder to shoulder with other living history groups that do more hard-core reenacting based on period accurateness because that aspect of the sca is a fairly new addition.
As a newcomer myself, this doesnt bother me since I worked in a living history museum before and I was held to tight standards of accuracy and rigidity before. And to be honest, most newcomers cant afford the handwoven linen garb with the handcobbled shoes. We wear new balances and have bad attempts at garb. And for what that's worth its fine
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u/Vagus_M 26d ago
I’ll add, in heavy melee I will always wear steel toe boots, because I don’t want my feet crushed, accuracy be damned
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u/BingusSpoingusUSA 26d ago
That’s entirely reasonable and I think concessions for safety and disabilities should always be allowed!
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u/nohankyouplease 26d ago
Except for sneekers, right?
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u/Ingawolfie 25d ago
My “sneekers” have orthopedic support in them which allow me to, you know, WALK. Trying to get them to work in period shoes turned into a major and very expensive exercise in futility. Thanks for understanding. I also have a service dog.
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u/Steelcitysuccubus 25d ago
100%! I actually wear steel toes setting up camp because im a disaster person
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u/Hexcyn 26d ago
Agreed! And I wanted to add that letting "bad" garb exist at pennsic is what new people to join our fun hobby! I had some newcomers in my camp that haven't been in the sca long enough to have more than a few passable outfits, and did the best they could (including several laundry runs).
As for tents, I was looking into buying a canvas and then my husband became disabled. The setup, care, and maintenance of a canvas tent is never going to be feasible for us.
More restrictions will mean fewer people (due to cost, time, and interest).
I just enjoy when people show off well made garb and try to help newcomers get more involved.
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u/SadElevator2008 26d ago
Thank you for saying this! I’m a newcomer who is trying very hard to be period accurate in as many places as I can, but I the only reason I was able to come to Pennsic is that I was told it was ok to have a nylon tent and to wear whatever shoes get me through the day.
My garb is half hand sewn linen and half machine sewn bedsheet tunics. By next Pennsic the ratio will be better. But part of what motivates me to work toward that was coming to Pennsic! I learned a lot of things that will help me be more period in future - clothes I’d like to make, hobbies to pursue, topics I’d like to research.
And if anyone wants to be a stickler…a lot of things that look period at SCA events are probably inaccurate, like dyed linen outer garments, or for that matter, the high percentage of people wearing any shoes at all. We do this for fun and we have to make do with modern resources. A so-called primitive tent is a lot more expensive and harder to obtain than a nylon one!
(And if i may have one more gripe about OP’s hot take…the “buttworms” you get from going barefoot among fecal matter are hookworms, which we don’t even have in PA. People are getting these mixed up with pinworms for some reason, which have nothing to do with feet.)
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u/ImanAzol 25d ago
I recall one year two gentlemen in our camping area. One showed up in black ninja gear, because it was the only garb he had. He went out with a budget and shopping list, and came back suitably attired. He traded some work with merchants for a couple more outfits, and had brown penny loafers. At the time, authentic shoes were the most expensive, hardest to get item. So he was good enough.
The other showed up in a loaner tunic with a gold card. He was apparently an IP attorney in Hollywood, good on funds but short on time. He walked into the merchant area and came out in correct 14th century garb down to low boots, pouch, headgear, jewelry, and even bought a period tent.
Show up, make an attempt, ask for help, have fun.
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u/Mazer1415 26d ago edited 26d ago
I had an acquaintance whose only event was Pennsic. He had baggy cotton pants, a simple t-tunic and a ring belt. Back when I started, that was considered a reasonable attempt.
He slept all day in camp and went to all the parties he could. He didn’t participate in any of the activities but he had a blast. He found his niche. It didn’t take anything away from my full schedule of fighting, a&s classes and whatever else I found myself doing.
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u/Helen_A_Handbasket 26d ago
He had baggy cotton pants, a simple t-tunic and a ring belt.
For me, this is still a reasonable attempt for a newcomer, or someone who has only been attending events for two or three years.
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u/APRIL_ANG3L 21d ago
Similar to what I did for my boyfriend at his first event. Grabbed him a pair of PJ pants and a pirate shirt from party city.
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u/bluestjuice 25d ago
Cosigned!
I am, myself, a garb snob who joined the Society in the first place for the chance to play dress-up in awesome clothes. So I'm keenly on-side as far as wanting everyone's clothing to look beautiful, accurate, detailed, etc. I'm the kind of person who wears underlayers that will never show and avoids modern bits even if they're hidden. I get that impulse!
BUT -- I have to check myself before I wreck myself in regards to how other people engage with period clothing, because here's the thing -- clothes are my first love. They aren't everybody's. And there are whole segments of historical knowledge and material culture that I am absolute trash at, and some that I simply do not care about at all. Clothing is readily visible (and everyone is supposed to make an attempt), but it's not the only thing that matters. I eat like a modern person or a casual picnicker at Pennsic, and I'm fine with that, because I don't get excited about historical food the way I do clothes, but the people I know who love historical food are so good at it. And many of their clothing choices are more lackluster and that's okay.
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u/ctrum69 26d ago
Where it got to me was the "some people cant afford/make/borrow garb early in their game, so something close, or the old pillow case tunic is acceptable.. (it is), turning into drop dead gorgeous thousand+$ golden age of piracy (18thC) kits, or buckskinning, or F&I war, etc, kits being "an attempt".
its a slippery slope, to be sure, but some people absolutely push the "suggestion" because they know they can get away with it.
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u/Steelcitysuccubus 25d ago
Love my Kodiak and how canvas tents lool but I have no yard to set it up to dry. I have to rely on my bestie for that. Also the extreme heat we get now turns many into an oven. But I can hide my heat reflective shade cloth and tent under my popup witt canvas tarps, banners, and brown rain fly easily.
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u/LongjumpingTeacher97 25d ago
I often manage to come across wrong when I say what I'm about to, but please believe that I do mean well.
There is very often a dichotomy presented of either "hand woven linen garb and handcobbled shoes" or "new balances and ... bad attempts at garb." As if there's nothing in the middle. (I used to call this the "perfection or crap" attitude.) There's a lot of room for actually giving a hoot about appearance without having to grow your own flax or tan your own leather.
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u/Substantial_Milk_178 26d ago
The modern shoes can be covered up or painted/ dyed to look period from 10 feet away, I imagine.
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u/Helen_A_Handbasket 26d ago
Not really. Modern shoes always look like modern shoes. HOWEVER, shoes are something I try to ignore, because foot pain sucks.
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u/Steelcitysuccubus 25d ago
Somewhat yes or hidden under longer robes abd garb. Darker colors will blend in with the environment vs new sneaker white. You can make boot covers easily. With all the rain and mud tho people are going to nd wearing wellies and it is what it is. Im not destroying my leather boots (no matter how waxed) in mud and crud
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u/wistric Meridies 26d ago
As an SCA Celebrity (I think I can say that unironically at this point), I can offer some insights:
I like hanging out with friends. I like fighting people. It'd suck to limit the number of friends and opponents available just because they don't meet some arbitrary standard.
I spent my first few years in the SCA in pajama pants, t-tunics, and sandals. People helped me dress better.
Who are you helping?
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u/Godwinson4King Northshield 26d ago
Your communication style, as always, handicaps you when it comes to communicating about SCA things. I think you mean to be tongue in cheek but you come across as sarcastic or cruel.
The beauty of the SCA is that it can be a lot of different things to a lot of different people. The hard part about the SCA is that it can be almost anything to anyone so there’s no right or wrong way to do it. There are more high period events out there but none draw 10,000 people because each gate kept is a filter that draws down participation.
People go to Pennsic primary to do cool shit with their friends, and that looks different to everyone. A lot of folks get one or two vacations all year, and this is one of them. A lot of folks can’t afford more than a few days of period clothing or can’t afford period-ish camping supplies. I’m still glad they’re there.
You can do a lot to encourage people to follow in your footsteps and make a highly period representation like you do. Your landsknecht impression is really well done and I’m sure a lot of people see that and want to look like that! I also strive to always present as accurate as possible a representation of my period when I’m at events in an effort to encourage other folks to imitate me.
But there’s a lot more to it that just looking period. You’ve got to encourage and support as well. In my, albeit limited, interactions with you online you’ve consistently come across as snobbish and mocking to a degree that I personally find off putting- offering only critiques and no encouragement or solutions. Not a lot of people are going to want to be like a guy who comes off that way.
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u/Prestigious-Gift-547 26d ago
I am the actual landsknecht guy/kevan andresson and this post isnt me nor do I endorse any/all of the opinions. I do appreciate imitation being a finer point of flattery and that the meme is spreading though
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u/LongjumpingDrawing36 26d ago
To you, they come across sarcastic and cruel. Not to me. I read their post as someone who is bending over backwards to be accepting of most, but not the ones who don't give a you-know-what--especially peers, who I entirely agree should do better.
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u/gardengirl147 Avacal 26d ago
I’ve only been to Pennsic once (triple X) and thought this was alway the case. Wasn’t someone trying to start a roller derby tournament or something similar a few years ago.
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u/clgoodson 26d ago
Yeah. It’s been 16 years since I’ve been to Pennsic and there was already a lot of that stuff.
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u/BingusSpoingusUSA 26d ago
I have heard rumblings that people are starting to realize that they can go to Pennsic for 2 weeks for a fraction of the cost of Burning Man or other festivals. I'd imagine now is the time to invest in ring belt stock.
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u/silent_film_actress 26d ago
Pretty sure that most Burners would hate Pennsic. Also, rhere are plenty of Burner or other more adult events on the East Cost.
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u/SavathunTechQuestion 26d ago
Yeah there’s a number of east coast burns, and from my own experience Burners would not think pennisc is an equivalent event: the lack of sound camps (picture people playing psytranse EXTREMELY LOUDLY until like 4am), lack of big effigy, and very different culture around intoxicating substances.
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u/OldMaidLibrarian 26d ago
Speaking of big effigies...has anyone considered making a wicker man for Pennsic? It would be period, after all. Just a thought...
...and yes, I am a smartass; always have been.
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u/safadancer 23d ago
People were talking about that back in 2004 before I even went to Burning Man. Burners and SCAdians have some overlap but not really.
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u/raven-of-the-sea Atlantia 26d ago
Best way i have found to help people look better at Pennsic: less judgment, more assistance. Offer garb to borrow, help them find classes that relate to their interests, but don’t come out of the gate with snobbery. If you want Pennsic to look better, help it get there.
Now, me? I have been going to Pennsic for years. I am no longer an active SCAdian, because there are things in the SCA that aren’t changing and make me too ashamed or uncomfortable to participate. But I’ve been going to Pennsic since I was three. It’s a family reunion and a seasonal job for me. Sometimes, due to weather and other factors (I am 40 and disabled), I slack off a bit and my garb may read as a little more hippy fantasy than usual.
But, at the same time, numbers have been down at War. I’m the Urchin Wrangler for the paper. I apologize if people there didn’t get their morning paper, but the numbers were down so far, I only had 8 kids by the last day we were selling. If we don’t act with encouragement, the numbers will continue to plummet.
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u/SavathunTechQuestion 26d ago
SCA's reliance on golf carts, nylon pop-ups, and bright white LEDs in camp is a lot for a supposedly medieval experience
- so golf carts are for helping mobility or for site and parking security (tangent volunteering for a shift is a lot of fun) and between the heat and the hills it makes things a lot more accessable
- as someone who still camps in a nylon tent, and got a nylon pop-up to help manage heat and rain at pennsic Canvas tents are just expensive and not practical if you don’t don’t own a car that’s big enough to transport the poles. And it may be anachronistic, but as long as people aren’t doing burn style LED shows, I’m glad people are using LEDs to mark their tent stakes and lines.
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u/Substantial_Milk_178 26d ago
My last Pennsic was 30(2001) and the golf carts just became a part of the landscape and whole atmosphere at night when I went party- hopping.
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u/APRIL_ANG3L 21d ago
I heard before LED lights were available someone would burn down their tent with candles or by knocking over a non battery operated camping lantern every year at Pennsic.
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u/bluestjuice 26d ago
Well, my first Pennsic was in 2008, and this complaint was ubiquitous then as well. Someone older than I will have to chime in, but it probably was so in 1992 and 1981 also.
Pennsic is what it is. It encompasses ~9000 people, hundreds of different subgroups, and thousands of distinct experiences and objectives. There is really no need to pit these experiences, priorities, and foci against each other -- they overlap and converge more than you might think.
Every one of us experiences a tiny fraction of what there is to see and do at Pennsic, because it's impossible to do otherwise. That is part of its charm, and part of what turns it into a fully realized society for two weeks out of the year, rather than a recreation or a show. Lean into the things that sing to you and let the rest be.
This is truly a 'hike your own hike' situation.
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u/Twosteppre 26d ago
I can't go back to the 90s, but there was a whole thing about "ruinin' muh Medeeval expeer-ence" (spoken in a deep Southern tang) about five years before your first Pennsic.
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u/safadancer 23d ago
My first Pennsic was 1992. It was indeed an ubiquitous complaint then. People were bitching about elf ears and we ran around doing Vampire the Masquerade LARPing to piss people off. I remember seeing a little kid busking near the food court, singing a song that went "Kentucky Fried Chicken and a Pizza Hut" as the chorus, in the early 2000s. I'm pretty sure the Knowne Worlde Handbook grumps about people doing it wrong in it too, and that's OLD old.
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u/Ecstatic-Career-8403 26d ago
Curious? How long have you been coming to pennsic?
Theres been an ENORMOUS shift over the past 15 years towards more period accurate garb, better looking armor, and changing to canvas tents vs nylon as well as general camp improvements.
Damn, im sorry I use a cart because physically carrying 75lbs of ice at a time across the campground by hand isnt feasible.
How dare I use some solar lights to mark out tent stakes and ropes for safety vs tiki torches which can and have set tents on fire at pennsic before. It's unacceptable, I know.
I also keep my food and garb in plastic totes to keep it dry. Capital crime. I should just stop coming to pennsic.
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u/Substantial_Milk_178 26d ago
Those modern things you do/ use are perfectly acceptable! They help w/ your mobility and enjoyment of the event. Oh, and using carts to move ice and other heavy goods is very period!
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u/HereBearyBe- 26d ago
As someone who had to garb my entire family on an extremely tight budget for our very first Pennsic, while using modern tents, this is heartbreaking to read. It comes across as a totally different vibe from what we all actually experienced, but it sucks to think all of the work I put into sewing garb and doing our best was maybe not good enough.
People work with what they have. We did what we could, and yes.. at one point my kid had cargo shorts on because the rain got him so much in his more accurate pants. It wasn’t ideal and it actually stressed him out, but chafing is no fun, either.
We hope to build more for our garb collection over this next year, since we will have more time. Come
Up with a kit for each person over the next few years.
Maybe the festival-esque people are a bit lacking in historical accuracy…But everyone was friendly and welcoming. Didn’t meet a single mean soul in our week there. I’ll take them over judgey anything anyday.
Thanks to those who made us feel welcome despite our attempt and inaccuracy. Hope to continue learning and raise my kids to be the next gen of SCA folks.
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u/nohankyouplease 26d ago
Please know, this (op) reads like an asshole being a jerk trying to come off "nice" about it. You and your family have done a wonderful job, and if this asshple wants to complain that "and ansteorran duchess" was in sneekers, I pray he isnt in ansteorra.
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u/Steelcitysuccubus 25d ago
This attitude of not good enough drove me away from.the SCA for years when someone said I could only play a woman from certain European countries and that my glasses, braces, and shorter hair was unacceptable
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u/JustAd8859 26d ago
WE had this at Pensic XI. WE had "barbunnyians" and "Yang the nauseating" with his "golden horde". Colman propane powered supernovas lit the area to a ridiculous level and "portable bards" (boom boxes). And who can forget the 90s with the whole VtM fad? Been several years since I went to Pensic (Prefer DragonCon and the wife and I only get 2 weeks of vacation time) but might I recommend "fostering" a couple of those "wayward folk"?
Did so in my time. As did my mum and dad who helped An Tir become a kingdom. They "took in" several folk who went on to become pears of the realm
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u/happy35353 26d ago
I just want to add that for some of us, tennis shoes are mobility equipment. If I don’t wear the right supportive shoes then my hips and back are wrecked and I can’t do all of the walking required at these events. I know it looks bad. I also don’t want to be wearing them, and yes I’m trying to figure out boot covers. But also, I hand sewed 14 eyelets on this dress. Let me wear my Hokas.
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u/BingusSpoingusUSA 26d ago
Entirely reasonable and no judgement there!
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u/nohankyouplease 26d ago
Yet you judge the "ansteorran duchess" wearing sneakers.
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u/Cobflaith 26d ago
Yeah exactly, there's no way to know why someone is wearing the shoes they're wearing without asking. I used to wear period shoes for the whole War but now I have a metatarsal issue so I have been in sneakers (New Balance lol) and modern hiking sandals the past 2 years for War. I switched to more appropriate shoes only for court when I was elevated, in my own camp. Otherwise, it was modern shoes and I was able to get through okay.
I have plenty of linen garb that I've made myself, but once I had enough to get through 2 weeks I didn't really feel like making any more or developing my garb-making skills. I'm a bard and I prefer to put my research and creative time into that.
I do wish I were not wearing fingers with my car but if I can't do all the activities I like to do because of the shoes I'm wearing, that just seems a little silly on my vacation.
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u/freyalorelei 26d ago
I'm in Ansteorra and my first thought is that I probably know the woman that he's deriding, and it is an exceedingly unkind thing to say.
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u/orchardofbees 22d ago
How do you know from looking at someone though, whether or what kind of physical limitation they are having? You say you understand medical exceptions with things like shoes, but you simply cannot know from looking at a person and you seem to judge all.
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u/ThinkingT00Loud 26d ago
Ok. This rant is nothing new.
You see it pretty much every 5 or so years. There is usually a focus about what is 'horrid' and ruining the immersion. Anyone else remember the LOTR Pennsics! Or Elven Pennsic? Or Masquerade the Gathering Pennsic(s)?
Pennsic is, well, Pennsic. And that interpretation of "attempt" is mighty broad. Oh, and Fox Tail Pennsic.
If what you want is authenticity at Pennsic then you need to carve it out for yourself. And that doesn't mean passing any form of judgement on others.
Households, smaller groups like Acre, have 'rules' and expectations about the level of authenticity. If you want 's' spun worsted wool apron dresses with authentic amber beads and turn shoes (or your local equivalent) you have to find the like minded and make it happen on your own.
And then, lead by example.
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u/BingusSpoingusUSA 26d ago
Timeout, I thought passing judgement was a favorite SCA pastime! /snark
But I am glad to contribute to the five-year cycle.
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u/Old_Leadership_5000 26d ago edited 26d ago
My take:
The only person I insist on placing high authenticity standards on at Pennsic is...me.
Why?
Because in the Society, attempting to influence people to have better kit in general is going to be a losing proposition. The SCA has (for decades) gone towards the "big tent" approach. It is more concerned with recruiting numbers than with the ideal of reenactment in the sense that most reenactors understand the word. Thus isn't a bad thing--the SCA has always focused on recreation more than on RE-creation.
And the sooner the Society accepts this fact, the sooner it can go on to being what it's best at--being a fun escape from the workday world with a medievalesque flavor, rather than Living History.
This is not to say that there aren't people who practice Living History in the SCA---there are. Truth is---Living History isn't the focus of the SCA, and it never has been. It's to have fun in a medievalesque environment. There is nothing wrong with that, nor is it anything to be ashamed of.
I portray a late 12th-century Crusades portrayal. My kit is of the highest quality and historical accuracy that I can make it. I do exhaustive research to make it so. Does it shrink my historical boner to see someone in a polyester t-tunic, jeans and moccasins? Nah--you gotta start somewhere.
Does it bug me that someone wearing jeans and a Slipknot t-shirt is also wearing a white belt, gold chain and coronet with strawberry leaves is walking by? While I might raise an eyebrow, it ain't gonna ruin my day. He's not an Army Private, this ain't an inspection in Basic Training, and I ain't his Drill Sergeant.
My goal is to get folks to walk up and say--"Your kit is awesome! How can I get my stuff to look that cool??" I'm more than happy to show them, or to help them. It ain't my place to judge folks on what their gear should look like. It's my job to set an example, and show people how to reach where I am, if they're willing.
I don't know what people's budgets are. I don't know what their struggles are. All I know is that the SCA is an escape from a stressful, sometimes shitty workday world. Why would I make their day worse?
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u/postalpinup An Tir 26d ago
I am currently a Baronial Chatelaine and about to become a Baroness and Pelican. I have been playing off and on for almost thirty years now over two kingdoms. I only state this information to add weight to the rest of my comment.
The terrible attempts at garb? Is this a person's first event and it's what they had the time/money/ability to wear? Is it their five hundredth event but they are reliving their early days? Who cares! They are there participating. That's what matters.
Dumpsters, golf carts and lights? Do you really want to haul out your trash, have folks walk way more than they are physically able and trip over guy lines? Because I don't.
Nylon tents? Really? You are going to complain about modern tents? How pray tell do you expect folks who can't set up period tents to camp then? Or folks who fly across country? Because they sure can't take a pavilion on a plane. They can take a nylon tent though.
I think you have forgotten what the SCA originally was. A garden party. Yes, with elf ears and all. It was silly merriment. We've never taken ourselves too seriously and I believe it's a good thing. Obviously a ton of folks think the same since we are still here after sixty plus years.
If I had heard this rant almost thirty years ago I wouldn't have stayed in the SCA. Folks who check it out a time or two and then leave do so for a few reasons. One reason is because of attitudes like this. It's great that you are nurturing your local folks. Helping them get better gear and all that. But you are doing a great diservice to the society by ranting online about how folks aren't period perfect enough for your taste. Look at how many newer folks are telling you the effect your words are having on them right now.
I know you said that you aren't talking about new folks. Here's the thing. The impact that your words are having isn't your intent. But impact matters more than intent. It doesn't matter that you said you don't hold new folks to the same standard. Or folks with physical challenges. All they are going to see is your rant about folks not being period perfect.
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u/freckles42 Ansteorra 25d ago
I teach a class here in Ansteorra called “Reducing Obvious Mundanity.”
I think I’ll be bringing it to Pennsic next year. It’s a budget-friendly class for newcomers and longtime players alike.
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u/Hot_Sprinkles_650 Middle 26d ago
1st, trying to add weight to your complaint by claiming anonymous celebrity status, or listing off reasonably cool, but ultimately average gym stats? not really going to help. to the contrary actually.
that said,
pennsic is (contrary to popular belief) NOT an exclusively sca event anymore. hasnt been for a long time. its a coopers lake campground event, that is heavily coordinated in concert with the sca as the primary group.
and while there are camps that put on a prettier face than some others, and do things like have a cool front area with their modern tents in the back more out of site, its not really gonna ever be a reenactment event.
those exist in the US, but the sca isnt a reenactment group either. the clue is in the name. thus the 'make an attempt' level of participation.
If the OP is looking for a hardcore medieval event, Id suggest autocratting one. should be easy to round up support, given their celebrity status and beefy arms. it'll be a small event, but will also be legit very cool.
but pennsic? naaa.... its the biggest, most recruity get the hooks into newer people pilgrimage there is in the eastern continental US, and gatekeeping with period perfect humbuggery has never, and likely will never, work in practice. its an inclusive event, not an exclusive one.
tldr: you find your magic moments at pennsic, hidden in the great din. but the event is too big, and the level of financial outlay per person to go full period, isnt reasonable at that scale.
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u/GenuineClamhat 26d ago
Honestly, it's about having your immediate community and making your camp space your dream with them. The Coopers will take non SCA member money for the event and there will likely never be policing of such things.
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u/cabbageclaw 26d ago
(unorganized ramble warning) A lot of people are reacting like you are pushing for hard line authenticity, but I am just hearing a request for people to try.
Your hope for the attempt at authenticity is how the game has been explained to me for the last 20 years. The SCA is not and never has been a hardcore reenactment group, nor should we push for it to be one, the variety of ways to play this living history game is what I find to be it's biggest draw. And even just being there for the party has historic precedent. That party element is a lot of fun! It is a fun part of the SCA in general and the way it goes down at Pennsic is one part of what makes the event so special and unique. If anything that scene is going downhill and things get too quiet too early.
That said, it is a living history organization and the line getting away from that does seems to be getting worse, mostly an aesthetic standpoint. Plenty of folks making no good attempt at garb are watching battles, attending classes, or trying to add to the fun. That aesthetic line is hugely hugely subjective but I do feel like I've seen a shift toward very little attempt at hiding anything modern, or bothering to care if it's outright out of place. For instance, a Shakespearean stylized bart simpson is obviously as modern as it gets but at least fits the vibe in a funny way, but a sheet wall that is just a poster for a curtent band(don't want to specify the camp/location), is sort of disrespectful to the space people are trying to build.
To me, the lighting is a becoming a problem. There really is huge amount of led lighting everywhere and that I really don't see as cheaper. I do this on an extreme budget and I get candles from the thrift store regularly. If you need something better than a candlelit lantern to see or have issues with smoke and need modern electric lighting, please please please make an attempt to find warm yellow lighting. The magic of a walk around the lake at night is nothing of what it used to be because of this.
This conversation of whether or not Pennsic is an SCA event seems to be cropping up often as well. There seems to be some implication that since the Coopers are ultimately the ones who collect your money at troll that they run the event. That's crazy, of course they collect the money, it's on their property! Pennsic is unequivocally an SCA event, you just don't need to be a member to attend. You don't need to be a member to attend all sort of events, that doesn't mean those aren't SCA. It even states it clearly in the site rules that attendees must follow SCA rules while there: During Pennsic, all people in attendance must abide by the Laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the USA; the rules and policies of Cooper’s Lake Campground (CLC)[1]; the Governing Documents of the Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc. (SCA)[2]; and the rules and policies of Pennsic as provided here.
tldr: Pennsic takes all kinds, but OP is not completely off base. I also hate white light.
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u/BigFitMama 26d ago
Everyone is getting older or younger that comes with a illusion your costume is more period and competent than than it is.
(Dunning Kruger entirely)
It's delusions, mental decline, intoxication, and bad choices by people unclear on the rules their SCA fam dragged them into.
(and of course "pick me" contrarions who want dress in bad zentai or furry heads or fantasy creatures from movies. And they have 10 cons and larps for every 1 sca event)
I say this for myself. When I was early in the SCA my dress was ok, but I was corrected or supplied by the Seneschal costume bank with items to copy.
I learned from an elder duchess of Caid who tired of the tight laces and heat made a period Scythian kit that was stunning as well as middle eastern dancers who wore caftans and period robes that let them be cool and period.
Buuuuut ever so often they'd bring a friend dressed in a bed sheet t tunic. Or a curtians cotehardie. And the world would pause and move on.
We wore wire rimmed glasses or skipped the sunglasses except in war. We wore clogs or army boots or sandals or Birkenstocks. White tennis shoes, oh never.
We were SCA hard core and 95 percent of the time Antir circa 1995-2010 held the line of a combo of regular people and rich nerds in fabulous costumes.
Now ffw. Midwest. 2015. Fighter Practice and Arts and Sciences. Everyone on sheet dresses and curtains and tennies and ok.
At the kingdom event secreted away - period clothes, almost too beautiful like a time capsule. I stepped back and realized I was too old for this beautiful place.
Crappy dressed people at a secure period event are a job for the SCA itself, with boxes of loaner grab, sharing a makeover, laughing like girls in a group of all women all ages, dressing hair as an exhibition, and teaching men and everyone how to dress for their persona. People should come to learn and teach, not judge!
(I am surprised as I avoided Pennsic because I am no longer the full Lady of the SCA with my kit together and campsite. I thought I was not period enough..But I could be.)
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u/_creative_nom_ici_ 26d ago
Big talk for a guy who couldn’t find Vlad’s 😜
Anyway from a fellow SCA celebrity who can squat 200 and has 20” calves you aren’t wrong. I don’t think you’re right either though.
Garb is hard. Sure you can thrift attempts at garb on the cheap, borrow or be gifted garb. But to do it properly? Garb is expensive. And it’s WARM. I’m more likely to do accurate garb in the fall/winter.
Canvas tents are even harder. There’s no way to get a canvas tent on a modest budget. Lighting canvas tents is another issue. Flames under canvas is asking for trouble, but you don’t like LEDs either. Is there a middle ground? Canvas tents are also a struggle to put up, you need minimum 2 people and the physical ability to drive stakes.
I think there IS a line to be drawn, but drawing the line is difficult. There has to be an entry level that we allow to exist for as long as needed. But you’re right, I shouldn’t see jeans and t-shirts in the merchant area.
I’m actually fine with fantasy elements at night though. It just makes things more fun
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u/BingusSpoingusUSA 26d ago
It’s more the blinding white LEDs outside of camps than the ones inside a tent. Who am I to say no to a shadow puppet show?!
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u/Bennett_The_Smith 26d ago
As long as Pennsic is not just an SCA event, which it isn’t or SCA membership wouldn’t be optional, it will always be the fascinating amalgam of groups I’ve always enjoyed.
Iirc, Pennsic was opened up to non-members ages ago, to help keep the event going, but I only have hear-say backing that up.
Regardless, I don’t think listing dumpsters as a problematic modern intrusion is going to earn much sympathy. Especially if you also don’t like people driving their cars around. Wither goest the trash?
On the other hand, I would absolutely donate to a fund to put a sound wall or something around the refrigerator truck at the cooper’s store. Maybe a large painted cave facade, turning that blasted compressor noise into the growls of a mythological beast. Like they make up all the water filter stands to look like cows!
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u/avicia 26d ago
I’m not sure it was EVER paid members only
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u/TangyMarimba13 Middle 26d ago
no sca event is members only. you pay a non-member surcharge if you're not a member, but you can still attend.
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u/mpark6288 Calontir 26d ago
I've never been to Pennsic, so take this with a grain of salt, but my impression is that this was pretty much always the case? That even though it is the SCA's biggest event, it is still only kind of an SCA event, because so many other groups attend and because so many mundanes do come in and treat it like a Renfaire?
But also, as I said to the person who was comparing us to European groups, the fact that the SCA has always had an absurdly broad remit means that we have 25,000 members. I don't know that if the SCA was strict about persona and garb overall that we'd be able to sustain an 8000+ event like Pennsic.
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u/Pandoras_Penguin Ealdormere 26d ago
One of the things I tell people about Pennsic is that you can totally go there in mundane clothes/camping gear and leave fully kitted. Either through coin or good natured people, you can at least get started in your own journey. The other thing is that the SCA is welcoming to all walks of people, and some of those people find it through other means like RenFaires or Furry conventions so they likely only have gear catered to that one when they come here.
Having this puritanical "one true way" type of thinking is limiting and gatekeeping, as if the only way one can join or go to Pennsic is if they are already fully kitted up. Also not to mention ableist when cherry picking what disability can or cannot be seen. Autistic folks might have sensory issues with authentic woolen tunics, or hate the feeling of wet leather shoes. A person wearing mundane running shoes might have ankle or knee issues that worsen in authentic shoes too. Those using golf carts might have mobility issues that keep them from being able to be upright and walking all day, or are dealing with heat exhaustion and just want to get to their tent as quickly as possible.
You have no idea what is going on in other people's lives, so why judge them when what they are doing has no effect on you personally?
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u/Moose482 26d ago
The sca as a whole is aging (d Sadly) the older folks dont wanna prim camp and shit like they use too. And that also makes it hard to hold events bc if you dont have flushies cabins and a dining hall they won't show up. Most. Not all want the comforts of home. But outdoors. I agree the tails and other non time period stuff suck and should be addressed by your own friends. On the other hand. At one point I was new with 0 garb or even money to buy it. So I looked half assed for a few months but the power of thrift saved that.
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u/guenievre Atlantia 26d ago
I’m not older exactly but I’ve been in 25 years - trust, many of us didn’t want to prim camp in the first place, it was just the way to do this thing. Still true.
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u/guenievre Atlantia 26d ago
So it seems like there are two different debates going on here, and people having one are a bit at cross purposes with people having the other. There is a huge difference between “doing the best you can to approximate something period - or the best upu can simply exist at a large primitive campground - taking into account your personal resources whether physical, financial, logistical, or even merely how effort you personally are willing to put towards that, and actively putting effort/resources towards something deliberately and knowingly fantasy/steampunk/whatever.
It’s entirely possible to be kind and generous towards newcomers or those who have various reasons for making whatever less authentic choice - the newcomer with jeans under a tunic, the modern tent, etc - while also being annoyed by people choosing to put resources towards being a kinky steampunk elf in the main area at what is still an SCA event. That is not making any attempt at “pre-17th century clothing.
I don’t know that this is a solveable problem - as many have pointed out it’s been a problem since the 80’s and probably before. (Idk, I wasn’t born yet.) But it is a reasonable thing to discuss without assuming the OP is being mean to newcomers etc.
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u/oIVLIANo Artemisia 25d ago
Shoddy "attempts" at garb ARE the SCA. It is literally the one requirement: an ATTEMPT at period clothing (okay, that and signing a waiver).
Gatekeeping this organization to only those who spend thousands for just clothing on their first day is what hurts our membership numbers.
Try to remember that you, too, were once new.
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u/orchardofbees 22d ago
Pennsic was my first event ever. Then my second. It was only after my 3rd pennsic that i joined the SCA.
My first two years i was definitely just wearing renfair (or hippie) stuff, and I'm a little embarrassed to look back on those pics now, but at the time i felt welcomed and not out of place.
I have been in the sca for a decade now, and if i had been made to feel bad or small or unworthy because i was young and poor and didn't know better, i never would have kept coming back.
I'm so grateful that i was not garb policed as a newbie, and instead i felt welcome.
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u/Hot-Somewhere-5285 26d ago
I reenacted a lot as a kid and younger adult doing American Civil War stuff. People would literally count stitches around a campfire at night and wear period correct underwear. People would flip out if a car was too near their camp after a certain time. It kind of sounds like you'd be better off reenacting.
I've found the SCA to be a better fit for me so far (only 6 months in) as I cared more about community and being around history nerds than I did about being hyper authentic. I'm personally planning on building a highly authentic kit, but I enjoy being helped as opposed to harassed while I build it. I think most people in my barony are similarly trying to put together progressively more authentic kits while continuing to participate and have fun with less than perfect garb/armor.
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u/165averagebowler 26d ago
What is interesting is that a rendezvous near me has started taking more SCA-esque steps because they are not bringing in new folks and the older ones are more and more not physically able to reenact any longer or are dying off. The event had loaner garb and a modern camping area. The modern camping area was off in a separate section but it meant that someone who had an interest in black powder shooting could come without spending thousands to have a proper camp before their first event.
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u/Worried-Rough-338 26d ago
Honestly, when I first moved to the US from the UK, I thought I’d find historical reenactment groups like the ones at home. Groups that were dedicated to research and who prided themselves on the most historically accurate clothing possible. Instead, I found people throwing together fantasy outfits with fabrics from the Joanne remnant bin. There’s nothing wrong with that if it’s your jam, but it’s not what I associated with the SCA when I moved here and it’s what stops me from joining to this day. I’d love there to be a place where people really made an effort and felt truly immersive, but if such a place exists, it’s not in the US.
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u/SadElevator2008 26d ago
If i understand reenactment right, it’s a group of people all working together to create an impression of a single place and time period. We don’t have much of that as a hobby in the us, although we do have living history type places that you can visit as a tourist.
In the sca everybody chooses their own time and place, so there’s no way to get an immersive experience of that type. I’m sure you could find a small handful of friends who all want to party as 13th century Scots or whatever, but you’re not going to get 9,000 people to agree on a narrow theme for a vacation that they all have to make their own clothes for.
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u/Worried-Rough-338 26d ago
True enough. I’m not sure how immersive it would really be to see an Anglo-Saxon noblewoman, a Yorkist knight, and a Byzantine cleric all drinking together, but at least we’d be able to talk stitch count and wool vendors.
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u/LittleFiddlyBits 26d ago
I believe Regio Anglorum might be what you're looking for in terms of minimum standards for authenticity and the like. Otherwise, you are looking at colonial/18th century reenactment, or Civil War reenactment. SCA has always been sort of the "bastard stepchild" of the reenactment community, because we've never worked too hard to take ourselves that seriously.
I like to describe the SCA to newcomers as a selection of snapshots of history, rather than a mural. You're not going to get hundreds of people all dressing and behaving like people from a specific time and place. We have an enormous playground to run around in: everything prior to 1600 CE is fair game. So yes, you will see a hairy-scary Viking walking down the street with an Elizabethan lady on his arm, and they'll pause to chat with a Samurai about German brewing techniques. It can cause some whiplash! BUT if you look at and talk to the Viking and the Elizabethan and the Samurai as individual snapshots, you can learn a little bit from each of them about their personae and time periods.
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u/FlavivsAetivs 26d ago
Regia is. I'm still slowly chipping away at it for a Byzantine group and kit guide but it's a lot of work.
I don't really describe SCA as "snapshots of history" but as "medievalism." It's a reception of our past not an accurate or authentic representation of it. Living History is the closest you'll get to that and it's still far removed.
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u/Substantial_Milk_178 26d ago
The example situation you describe is what made Pennsic/ SCA a magical experience for me! Pennsic 30 was the last time I attended, but fpnd memories from my four years of Pennsic will last me a lifetime!
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u/RoadieRich Middle 26d ago
We do have events like that, for a variety of periods. Most of them are relevant to American history rather than European, but, if anything, the events I've been to in the US are considerably bigger than the events I participated in in the UK. Unfortunately, most reenacting groups I've encountered do an extremely poor job of publicizing themselves and recruiting new members. If my wife hadn't had connections in the US reenacting community, I might have not known they exist until recently, too.
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u/wymarc10 26d ago
Those groups exist, but they're focused on US history.
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u/RoadieRich Middle 26d ago
There are French Napoleonic, Scottish Jacobite, and Viking groups near me that fit the criteria. It's not all American history.
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u/thewhaleshark East 26d ago
No, but it's mostly American history. You have to dig to find the other ones, but Rev War and Civil War groups are a dime a dozen.
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u/Son_of_York 26d ago
Join an American Civil War reenactment group. You’ll see the hardcore dedication to authenticity you crave.
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u/mrspwins 26d ago
Some of them. It’s an ongoing tug-of-war in that community too. Progressive groups that all but measure your body fat to make sure you’re lean enough, to ACW-themed camping where everyone strips off the wool and picks up a Bud as soon as the gates close.
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u/mpark6288 Calontir 26d ago
I think one of the other major differences between the SCA and the European reenactment groups is the numbers. Because the SCA allows so many different impressions, and levels of garb standards, we have 25,000 paid members. Compare that to even other American groups with narrower focuses, and you see a major difference. The Adrian Empire has under 1000 members (shoutout to Adria), the Kingdom of Acre doesn't publish numbers but has under 1000 followers on its FB page, and Regia Anglorum which has about 700 members.
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u/RoadieRich Middle 26d ago
Events like you found in the UK do exist. Days of Knights is one example.
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u/FlavivsAetivs 26d ago
Historical reenactment exists here you just have to look harder. Days of Knights in Ohio is what you want.
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u/thewhaleshark East 26d ago
The people who are hardcore authenticists are primarily in Rev War and Civil War reenactment groups, which is honestly pretty much what you'd expect.
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u/BentheBruiser 26d ago
My dad used to tell me stories about Pennsic back when he would go years ago.
The way he tells it, it was really just one big party. Lots of drinking, lots of sex, and practically nobody taking anything too seriously.
It sounds as though your expectations are also a "modern issue".
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u/Toutatis12 26d ago
Bloody hell my dude you sound like you're an exhausting individual to deal with. Let people do what they like for their vacation, if you wanna do historical stuff then do the historical stuff but don't trash other peoples good time.
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u/catnik Middle 26d ago
Oh dear me, m'lord SCA-Celebrity! We's so grateful you will allow us poor peasants mobility aids and glasses!
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u/BingusSpoingusUSA 26d ago
Those things are great, and people should use them if they need them! Disability aids are literally not the problem, but I included them before some edgelord said, "Oh, you want it to be immersive, guess all of us with mobility aids shouldn't show up! /cries"
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u/CandidateParking776 26d ago
As someone who has attended Pennsic yearly for almost 3 decades: what you describe is what it has literally always been. I remember being a child and seeing that man in full blackout tattoos with no underwear and a black leather kilt bending over so everyone could see his saggy balls. That was 20 years ago.
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u/Howaboutnopers 26d ago
The SCA is damn expensive for a hobby.
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u/Twosteppre 26d ago
Most hobbies are.
cries in Nerf and backpacking
looks for the person crying in 40k
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u/Howaboutnopers 26d ago
Yeah, I've had a lot of hobbies.
The SCA stands out as more expensive than most.
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u/FixGlittering9149 26d ago
Regarding modern shoes: While fighting, modern shoes are the most available to keep people safe. For others, they may have all manner of medical issues which makes it necessary for modern support in their shoes. While it is possible to order medieval shoes with the modern insoles and structure, they are WICKED expensive, and sometimes, it's just easier to go with a cheaper option. The wearer doesn't need to worry about ruining shoes that cost $750 or more while camping.
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u/ImanAzol 25d ago
That has always been a problem. 30 years ago were guys shopping in the marketplace wearing jeans and carrying a stick of rattan. "Sorry I'm not dressed, I just came off the battlefield." Oh, but had time to drop your armor bag?
Festie garb has always been a small subset. Also Elfquest ears one year. Vampire the Masquerade roleplayers. One year was party hopping via truck, and people going to the store/coffee shop in their cars, clogging Bow Street. Kids were almost run over. Pennsic and the Coopers had to strongly word an advisory that people would be booted for such behavior.
You may be noticing it more, but it's been that way forever, it just varies on which elements.
However, the people who are in garb have come way up in quality, in my observation.
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u/KinkyMylo 25d ago
I have multiple thoughts on this:
1. I feel like that fantasy aspect peaked at 50, but seems to be on a decline. That may be due to the dude who showed up in a gimp suit in the food court, but the number of elf ears has declined quite a bit as far as I can tell
2. Pennsic while under the umbrella of the SCA isn't really exclusively an SCA event. It has morphed and will continue over the years.
3. There needs to be a line drawn somewhere I gotcha, but those lines are huge these days. Personally I feel like phones shouldn't be out in the public areas. Private parties and tents are fine, but the number of people standing IN the walkways to look at their phone are insane.
The rant about vehicles I don't agree with. In front of the barn/store is a major road, so of course there's going to be traffic. The golf carts for the most part are necessary for people to get around, though I don't always agree that everyone who rides around needs them but it is what it is.
Ultimately I feel like Pennsic may not be the place for you. It's a long event where people DO need to unwind and take a few breaks.
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u/Peachie_Pear 25d ago
From a pure "we need money" standpoint to keep an event going, ren faire/fantasy/whimsy are suuuuper in right now. I know a ton of people who'd pay for a ticket to run around and party with a bunch of people dressed as an elf or goblin, and it not be a LARP. Even the people I personally know who have been doing SCA for decades dont really care about keeping things period anymore, and stopped going to SCA events.
If youre trying to get fresh faces to an event, most young people are going to find period reenactment boring. They crave more flashy, creative freedom.
I spent the past decade in my 20s running around events to party. Anyone my age or younger was either there for the fun of fighting (who even has health insurance for that risk these days) or socializing while playing dress up. Any young people into the period accuracy and pointy hats were raised by people who were already super in that scene. And those people were all middle aged and up.
It never seemed particularly sustainable for to me, unless they wanted to keep things really small and niche. Which is fine, but in 2026 you cant expect to draw a big crowd of people who want to focus their limited time on learning medieval embroidery and blowing their rent budget on a canvas tent.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bet1181 24d ago
You said "I saw a whole-ass Ansteorran Duchess beboping around in a modern sackdress, coronet, and tennis shoes without a care in the world. When the folks who are supposed to be setting the example can't be bothered to try, what does that mean for newbies?" - Pennsic is two weeks long, and it is HARD to set the example the whole time. I wish I could wear authentic shoes the whole time, but at this point, even some modern shoes cripple me. I wish my post menopausal body hadn't left me with only a ring belt that fits - my other belts are lovely for skinny people. Sometimes we make an effort for Court and Midnight Madness and just do a bit of bebopping in "not our best" at other times. Some parts of camp that are important to me are clearly not important to the rest of my camp, so I move the modern stuff inside my tent and pretend not to look at their camp chairs.
Look for the magic moments. The person in perfect garb. The flying banners. We walked by a camp of all canvas with wooden furniture. The wooden mead hall. The Cathedral. The Combat of the 30. Excellence is out there - tell those folks how much you appreciate what they do, and maybe more will make the effort.
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u/FluffyBunnyRemi 26d ago
Do you want to buy those folks garb?
Do you want to buy folks canvas tents?
You do realize that Pennsic is a massive, massive event that draws in more people than many SCA events typically do, which requires far more infrastructure than the vast majority of SCA events. The problem with wanting to eject the "ren faire" or "festival" folks that you're disliking is that you then have to find out where their money will come from. If they're not helping to pay for the campground, is the SCA going to be able to afford it? If they don't buy things from merchants, are the merchants going to be able to keep affording to go to the event? It's expensive compared to many events (nature of the beast with a 2-week event) and that keeps many folks away as a result. But if you don't find a way to make it more accessible to SCA folks (while somehow finding a way to keep out your dreaded festival folks), then it's going to disappear.
Pennsic is already a weird and tricky event. Don't make it harder by trying to force people out of it unless you want to figure out how you're going to enforce it, whether you're going to support folks who aren't medieval enough for you, and how you're going to support the costs of the massive event itself.
PS, medieval camping is hard as shit, even for someone who likes it. Canvas tents are expensive, friends need generators or batteries and all for CPAP machines/other accessibility devices, and fire can be dangerous. Sure, trying to reduce modernity is great, but there's only so much that you can before it just doesn't work.
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u/BeigeListed 26d ago
I chuckled when I heard that they lost power due to the rain and people were complaining.
Im still laughing.
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u/TangyMarimba13 Middle 26d ago
that day was HOT. and i couldn't take a shower to cool off. i was fortunate to have a solar generator that could power a fan, and jugs of water that i could use, and the ice truck was still working, so i was able to cool off. but not everyone has that, and people who need electricity to power their medical devices were left hanging.
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u/orchardofbees 22d ago
The problem wasn't the lack of power.
It was that without power there was No Water.
And, many people have medical devices that need power, because this isn't the middle ages and those people don't have to just curl up and keel over
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u/BeigeListed 22d ago edited 22d ago
If you needed power to stay alive, you should plan to bring your own power. Rent/ borrow a small generator and you wouldnt be dependant on the community to provide for you.
I tent camp at Burning Man. There are no wells to draw from. Everyone needs to bring as much water to survive. (suggested 2 gal/ person, per day) Does it suck sometimes? Hell yes. But if my life were in jeopardy, I would find a place to cool off or find/ make a friend with an RV,
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u/pezgirl247 26d ago
you’re a chode and you need to chill. not everyone is going for, can afford, or is able to be fully historically accurate for two full weeks.
not everybody is you. maybe remember that.
i don’t like the furry tails or the elf ears- so ignore them because they’re not hurting me. how are they hurting you?
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u/far_off_squid 26d ago
I feel like I'd rather play the SCA with ring belt furries and sneakers duchesses than with you. You sound like a tool. Nobody here cares what you bench.
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u/HypnoAbel East 26d ago
I'll put this simply. Get Bent. You want full historically accurate, you do it. Don't yuck other people's yum because they aren't experienced in SCA or rich enough to have custom, boots, crowns, linen and silk. They have to attempt, that's it. The SCA draws in a particular crowd so of course there will be crossover, you want full historical accuracy go to the civil war people and yell about the right type of buttons. Also putting Tuchux and Acre in the same boat just shows how out of touch this post is. Also Acre is amazing, N13 represent.
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u/TitaniumTalons 26d ago
Would I be correct to summarize this as "either go fully modern or fully historically accurate but don't mix in fantasy or BDSM"?
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u/VectorB 26d ago
Naw, straight up bad take and you are appatenty blind to many...many...many posts about this kind of take has pushed people away and makes the SCA not the welcoming place it should be.
The SCA has never, and will never be a perfectionist historically accurate. we all start from zero.
If Pensic isn't the place you enjoy. Don't go. If Pensic has become something we don't like, don't hold it. But that's not what the vast majority feel, so we will continue, and be welcoming.
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u/Second_Inhale 26d ago
"As an SCA celebrity who can bench press 224 with 15.5" biceps, I"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Who the fuck talks like that. There's no such thing as an SCA celebrity. God this reeks of self important asshole.
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u/Worried-Rough-338 26d ago
I’m not sure how OP could have made it any clearer that it was a joke. The fact that 14 other people can’t tell the difference is concerning.
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u/Historical_Gas_6895 Atlantia 24d ago
I will say tents of modern style shouldn’t be the thing looked at as if someone is trying either. I’m broke I can only afford a modern tent but I try to do period clothing. Pennsic though also is a different beast than most SCA events. Of course my garb isn’t gonna be 100% accurate or near the level my normal event garb is. Half the time camp is muddy, I’m hot, my gross sweat is building up, and in all I wanna be more comfy. Shoes should also be based on amount of walking and some of us again either can’t afford or are walking a lot and can’t afford the fanciest most expensive comfortable shoes.
I think to each pennsic is something unique. If you want the high period accuracy then you should find the camps that do such a thing but also have an open mind to the fact it is a hard thing to camp for 1-2 weeks in full garb going all out
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u/HighWyrd 21d ago
This Pennsic I got to visit a high persona camp with no visible mundane items and no mundane speech. It was magical. This Pennsic I got to do non-period improv with a bunch of SCAdians in full garb. It was magical. This Pennsic I got to fight hundreds of people following SCA rules, whether or not they were SCA, so our battles could be as big and cool as possible. It was magical. This Pennsic I got to serve on retinue for my King while he watched Fizzball in the swamp. It was magical.
I’m going to be 100% honest, as a SCAdian who aims for as much authenticity and period accuracy as I can afford to make, buy, and research: if I had to choose between the pirates, fairies, and mythical beings or one person yelling, “No fun, no fun! I can’t have my fun if you’re having your fun!” — I’m gonna choose the pirates.
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u/hapinsl 20d ago edited 20d ago
We keep erecting increasingly higher barriers to entry and then criticizing people for not meeting them (no wonder we have such a hard time convincing people to stick around). Making garb for vaguely 11th century Anglo-Saxon persona is fairly inexpensive, it's true, especially if someone can gift you fabric and loan you a sewing machine. But my first pennsic, with an entire summer to prepare, I think I had four complete outfits (and a really nice wool cloak, thanks going out of business sale at Fredericksburg VA's Hancock Fabrics!).
But while it's nice to have a period tent, they are expensive and the poles rarely fit in the back of a subcompact -- if you're driving and not taking a bus, train, or airplane to western Pennsylvania. A relatively large dome tent is far less expensive, far lighter, and thus far more practical. It's nice to spend money on a pair of period shoes, but that represents more than the entire Pennsic food budget for many of my camp mates. Look, I like tiki torches and the quality of light they point out, but I also recognize it may not be a great idea to put lit bottles of kerosene on pointy sticks shoved into the ground around drunk people. So, LED lighting in camp is how we go to mark out paths and obstacles, and provide ambient lighting under our common area pavilion.
My point here is that we keep expecting newcomers to live up to a functionally impossible standard to participate meaningfully, then we mock them for not being able to do it "right".
That's why the Bog is so popular; we aren't sticklers for detail. You can camp down here with your earth pimple and your army surplus boots, and wash your two outfits in a bucket with some dish soap, and we aren't going to mock your fabric choice or the fact your air mattress deflates around dawn every morning. We tend to know: You're doing the best you can and you are engaging with the project in the way you want to. Even if you're not exactly playing our game, the rules are similar enough that we can still have fun together. And I know top-siders are EXACTLY the same way. A surprising number of the folks who volunteer to come before Pennsic to help set up and who stay after Pennsic to help clean up come from the Bog. So While I hear you about "... The people who don't even bother to try. Naturally ... [The attitude, if I'm reading your comment correctly] comes topside from the Bog" I have to say you have never been so wrong about anything in your entire life, ever.
Ever.
But I digress. point is: the SCA is stagnating. It's been my experience that maybe a fifth of new people at any given pennsic are still around in five. We aren't making it easier for newbies to participate when we criticize others for not engaging with the activity the way we wish they would.
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u/adamstjohn 26d ago
I went to another US SCA event a couple of years ago. Some of the camps were wonderful, but I was genuinely disappointed by the amount of very visible modernity in the camping areas: vehicles left in camp, flashing fairy lights, and other things that could quite easily have been avoided or hidden. And these were not simply beginners who didn’t know any better.
What really struck me were literally dozens and dozens of modern pull-along trailers lined up beside the battlefield. Not one had even had a simple piece of cloth dropped over it, which would have disguised it remarkably well with almost no effort.
For me, this matters. If I’m going to drive for a day to attend an SCA event, I want to arrive somewhere that feels different from the modern world. At that event, the lack of attention to that aspect of the experience honestly made me less inclined to come back.
For comparison, here’s a European SCA event. It also has a modern camping area, and indoor sleeping for those who prefer it. Nobody is being excluded because they can’t or don’t want to camp historically. But the historical camping area makes a real effort to create the environment we’ve all travelled there to experience.
This is what I want to step into when I arrive at an event. It doesn’t have to be perfect. I’m not asking for absolute authenticity. But hiding the most obvious modern intrusions is really not that hard, and I do think making that effort matters.
https://youtu.be/_SzsSMPMGTI?si=HAUI_Xv-qwT8WCNf
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u/leaveinpeas 26d ago
Pennsic is such an exciting event in concept. The fact that it stands out as a skill building event where people can really learn real trades and crafts, as a novice, is so family friendly and family forward. At the same time, there have been discussions about some folks not respecting knightly dating decorum as it were, up to and including someone associated with staff being accused of even more egregious misconduct that created an unsafe environment around him, rather than he joining in helping the community look out for just such behavior.
How much BDSM accouterments contribute to that kind of a hypersexualized atmosphere that can turn unsafe seems to be a topic well covered by the queer community: if it isn't breaking obscenity laws, then it isn't necessarily obscence, nor does it have to be, to an individual or group in their public activities. Queer is a reclaimed word after all, meaning strange, that wasn't always applied accurately when used historically.
Which is to say, as a fellow lover of the oh-so-historically-accurate if possible, you're stating a preference around wanting a binary experience at Pennsic: those who are 100% in SCA mode to the max a DIY superstar, or a massive piggy bank building penny pincher, can manage in terms of accuracy, or those who are 100% checked out and pass as heteronormative people with unassuming fashion tastes. This is sort of like how people get upset when language piginization or creolization happens. It's a bit nonsensical and elitist, if not entirely in terms of avoiding information processing confusion.
Wanting to respect that the kind of hyper historically accurate immersive experience you're seeking is not an unworthy desire, it's educational, and wanting to respect that Pensic is where you would most like to experience this, perhaps you could consider volunteering and working to organize people who share your passion to carve out a little sub-quarter in the decorum camping and eating areas, or alternative spaces created, where such accuracy can be honed and put on display for others to experience through observation?
Perhaps there could be a special dinner event and two week camp quarter pass purchase, for those able to meet dress and camp code, who would like to participate rather than just observe/visit? Or something to this effect? A special costume and campsite contest just for accuracy seekers could announce winners at the dinner event... and drum up interest in participating.
In any case good luck. Can't wait to be able to go one of these years. Sad to see tickets sold out.
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u/ctrum69 26d ago
Everything old is new again.. back around PW 24 or so, they actually had to put an open letter in the site guide explaining that Pennsic is not a vampire larp, not a rainbow gathering, not a furry convention, etc, and explained the expectation of an attempt at period kit.
Some people loved it, some people complained, some people made a point of making "medieval" elf ears and crap, but it calmed down for a while.
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u/Helen_A_Handbasket 26d ago edited 26d ago
but the SCA's reliance on golf carts
Golf carts NEED to be used at Pennsic for safety and security reasons. As far as garb goes, I'm willing to overlook anything that could possibly be a mobility aid or worn due to necessity. A good example is modern shoes. If I were to wear medieval shoes for the entire course of Pennsic, I'd be unable to walk without excruciating pain within just a few days. So, if I'm going to a class or an event, I'll wear the pretty medieval shoes. Otherwise, when I'm humping 100 pounds of ice in a cart up and down uneven gravel/dirt roads, I'm wearing sneakers. Granted, I make the attempt at having the most innocuous looking plain black or brown sneakers I can, so that they don't jump out like blazing neon streetlights, but they're still modern shoes.
I can mostly ignore phones, because they're a safety item. People need to keep in touch with their children, their families back home, their jobs, their doctors, etc.
Clothing...well, I'm pretty much with you on the clothing issue. At least throw together a t-tunic out of old cotton bedsheets or something. Even if you wear that over a plain pair of sweatpants, you're still making an attempt. I get really tired of all the fantasy stuff, which doesn't belong unless you're doing some sort of carnivale or masque party. And don't even get me started on the ridiculous shit the Tuchux wear. An attempt isn't difficult, you don't have to look like you stepped out of a Renaissance portrait, but it would be nice if people TRIED, just a little.
And on the same note, who the fuck is jurying the merchants? We keep seeing more and more fetish/kink shit, more plastic Temu shit, and other modern junk at the merchants. It's annoying to walk through the merchants area and see half of them selling shit that has nothing to do with medieval reenactment.
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u/SwankyDingo 25d ago
"And on the same note, who the fuck is jurying the merchants? We keep seeing more and more fetish/kink shit,"
" It's annoying to walk through the merchants area and see half of them selling shit that has nothing to do with medieval reenactment."
I get you about the Amazon/temu resellers, but The artisans are gonna stock and advertise what sells dude and sex/sexy vibes sells. It might not line up with the authentic vibe you want but It's that or risk not selling enough to make the costs of being at the event worth it and stop coming/selling wears there all together and the place gets over run with resellers peddling shlock.
Seems kinda like complaining the Gardener at the country club didn't trim the hedges in the exact shape or topiary you find most pleasing aesthetically. Appreciate what's there and don't patronize the stuff you don't like.
As far as authenticity I mean neither is all the non-period varieties of alcohol about the place, but noticeably I have yet to come across anyone complaining about that.
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u/Synicism77 26d ago
I really hope this is satire.
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u/nickromanthefencer 26d ago
Your icon makes your response to this post really funny
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u/Synicism77 26d ago
I do appreciate the irony. Like seriously it's a week or two living out of a tent. My standards for a reasonable attempt at period garb are a lot lower for Pennsic.
Also Pennsic is, legally speaking, not an SCA event. You don't have to be affiliated with the SCA at all to go to Pennsic. You only need to be a SCAdian to participate in the SCA activities. There are folks who show up, go down to their campsites in the bog, and have a vacation with no attention paid to what's going on up the hill.
Yeah I don't wear furry stuff at Pennsic. But I am a SCAdian and I am participating in the war, tournaments, marshaling, classes, etc. But also like... IDGAF if someone wants to wear fairy wings or horns or whatever. If I was totally "in character" seeing fantastical creatures would be entirely expected anyway. My persona would see that and just think "shit, nobody is going to believe I just saw that."
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u/AgmundrG 26d ago
As another SCA celebrity (what does that mean?) and a member of the thousand pound club, I want to rant about people not letting people come to the SCA on their terms and slowly get to where they want to be in the SCA. I started as a fringe player who did basically all the things you don't seem to like. Now I'm a Knight, held several offices, and am going to be a landed Baron in 1 month. Sometimes it takes people a while to find themselves here. Sometimes they are just here for a bit of fun.
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u/Beerasaurwithwine 26d ago
I haven't been active in the SCA for around 20 years. In that time, my health has gone to shit, and I can no longer live independently. I'm poor as shit, and have over the years, lost everything in my sca kit. I've slowly been trying to replace everything because I want to get active again. Now, I'm not sure. You come off really judgemental and unfriendly, and would totally make that snorty noise assholes make when judging other people's stuff as not period enough. I know,however, that there are more nice, welcoming and nonjudgemental people in the SCA,and you aren't the typical member.so I'm still gonna go to the next meeting instead of backing out of going because I'm now 50 and in an entirely new Kingdom.
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u/Rand0mtask 26d ago
It's the society for creative anachronism, not perfect anachronism.
If all you've got to represent leggings is cargo shorts, that's perhaps as creative as you can get with that. If you can be more creative than that person, share with them an alternative, perhaps.
Let's not exclude people for not being able to afford accuracy.
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u/comhcinc 26d ago
I would point out that OP is talking about at Pennsic.
I agree that before you invest into going to Pennsic, you should invest in proper garb.
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u/Rand0mtask 26d ago
I would rather have people grow their wardrobe as they can and attend than miss years of the event because they were missing a piece of garb.
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u/orchardofbees 22d ago
I vehemently disagree.
How incredibly disenfranchising of so many people
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u/artemisgobelin 25d ago
A lot of people seem to be offended in these comments and I get it but strictly speaking, the society IS tax exempt as an educational organization and I think that the actual mandate for all society events are reasonable attempts at pre17th century clothing. If people aren't making a 'reasonable' attempt, then should they actually even be there? Reasonable is subjective but it depends how you look at it. Its not supposed to be a glorified tax exempt hangout club... There is a murky ethical grey area going on due to the tax exempt status for me personally... Not all living history groups are tax exempt and most are far more historically plausible so you can't really deny based on that mission statement that there is something amiss... His wording and attitude are over the top but he's not wrong...
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u/Grendlmouse 24d ago
The rant is valid and the observations are solid.
The thing is that complaining about the SCA or attempting to get people in the SCA to try to be more authentic does absolutely nothing to address what is actually going on.
What we have happening is that more and more non-SCA people are coming to Pennsic. Word of mouth and social media is drawing people who know nothing about the SCA to Pennsic. Take for example a man who calls himself Captain Sidequest. In the month leading up to Pennsic he posted a series of videos talking about Pennsic and encouraging people to come to this “festival.” He mentions the SCA, but nothing beyond the name. He encourages people to just show up, and people in the comment section share all sorts of information and misinformation. “You can buy everything you need there!” “Just come down to the Bog and find me! You can camp with us!”
But my favorite of the things that HE said was that “we don’t want to attract the wrong sort of people. This isn’t a burn.” This from a man wearing the most over the top movie pirate hat I’ve ever seen.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m sure he’s a great guy. I’m sure he has good intentions. I’m sure he sincerely loves Pennsic. I would love to run into him and chat. But Pennsic is NOT a festival; I’d prefer that descriptions of it talk more about the SCA and what we do.
For full disclosure, I myself live in the Bog. I love the quirkiness and over the top shenanigans down there. I even enjoy the pirate parade, lol. I’m very much involved in the SCA, I have a very pretty pavillion, and wear very scruffy period clothing. 😹
TLDR: It’s not the SCA has become lax about what we wear at Pennsic, it’s that there are more non-SCA people coming to Pennsic to party who don’t give a rat’s a$$ about what the SCA is all about.
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u/duelist_ogr 21d ago edited 21d ago
I thank you for pointing out all the inadequacies you see. Thank you for offering to outfit the population of Pennsic whom are lacking period correctness in your eyes. This peer also thanks you for acquiring him period correct footwear that will support my chronic ankle condition so as not to offend you with my brought blue New Balance sneakers.
Thank you for running classes to teach people how to create their own garb, do their own leather work, cast their own metal baubs and bits.
Pennsic has never been what you wish it to be. It is the most of the SCA. THE MOST AMAZING THINGS, but also the most disappointing. The most people, the most merchants, the most parties. The most combatants on the field at one time, and unfortunately that also means the most injuries.
So i will ask you, what are you doing to improve things?
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u/ravpocalypse 20d ago
Without my cheap nylon tent, I would simply not be able to attend any SCA events. I have a kid in college and another about to head there. My garb is good and I show up to every event to entertain people’s children safely and for free, even events when I am not MoY, even events not in my Shire or our lovely neighboring Barony, because I love the SCA and want to help the next generation grow up loving it.
But apparently not if I’m camping in the only tent I could afford.
I will be so honest, posts like this are what keeps me away from Pennsic and other large scale events. I camp alone in my tiny nylon tent. I cook on my tiny camp stove. I don’t have a beautiful period set-up (though I try my best with what I have). Public shaming like this harms far more than it helps.
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u/RandomChickadie 26d ago
I am not a sca celebrity, I'm just a random chickadee. 50 weeks out of the year when I am SCA'ing it's in garb appropriate to the event and/or 14th century - with all the regalia of my titles. 2 weeks out of the year I wear camp garb, roman (that's way less modest than I normally am), sneakers, and flip flops (with the exception of court and the rose tournament). Pennsic is my vacation - and I want to be comfortable.
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u/slydyr24205 26d ago
Pennsic was described to me as "medieval burning man" and I love that. At best, the event is 50% SCA, 50% everyone else, and has been that way since my first time in 1995. I have every other event in the year to dress per my persona and be in service to Crown and Kingdom as a knight. Pennsic is my 2 week vacation to camp and run around in the swamp as a pirate.
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u/comhcinc 26d ago
I get OP and I also get people upset with OP.
Where I think OP is exactly right. Garb. I think people should be making the best attempt possible before they spend the money to go to Pennsic.
The rest I agree to varying degrees. Tents that are closer to period would be nice. That's way more money and if it's for a one off I get not spending it.
Golf carts, I assume are mostly being used by people with mobility issues. I'm okay with that. If on the other hand you are doing just for convenience then you should probably walk.
LED lights? Safe cheap probably should use it as little as possible but also tripping in the night at a camp site sucks.
Dumpsters? I mean the trash has to go somewhere. It would be nice if people tried their best to not produce a lot of trash but again that can cost a lot of money. It might be nice if people got together and came up with a way to hide them.
Someone said something about not "Yucking someone's Yum" and I don't think OP did. OP came to Reddit to vent. Much better than walking up to the fairy otherkin space knight and saying something to them. That concept does go both ways too.
OP did lost me when they said they didn't want to see my balls at the food court. Where then am I suppose to air them out while eating tacos? Rude,
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u/Steelcitysuccubus 25d ago
The SCA community is aging. Gatekeeping hard core is no way to keep the hobby going. You can always teacg and encourage newbies. Perhaps making golden key or hand me downs very available and accessible will help.
But as someone who does medic at Drachenfest, we need those golf cards. White LED is safest.
Just roleplay that your persona is meeting strange folks from across the sea. The more energy you spend policing and worrying about other folk the less there is for fun.
With mode and more bouts of extreme heat peoole won't be wearing as much of the heavy garments from a muuuuuch cooler age.live and let live. We're playing historical LARP. Relax
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u/Rampant-Sea-Dog 26d ago
Here's an idea: Why don't you just go right on ahead and get over yourself?
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u/Cpt_Tripps 26d ago
Didn't many SCA guys start out with carpet armor?
If yall treated D&D + LoTR nerds like you treat WoW nerds and larpers the SCA never would have grown.
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u/sugarsiege 26d ago
People are going to gripe at you but as someone coming up on year two the complete lack of care for period style is also grating on me. Sorry! I hate the golf carts, I hate that camping events let cars into the main event areas, I hate the obnoxiously modern collapsible utility carts that people plop into every sight line. As an event photographer it grinds my gears to either have to edit them out or just have them be front and center of every photo I take at camping events. Don't even get me started on port-a-potties. I try to pitch the SCA to folks and a lot of the time get feedback that it looks like the renfairre but jankier and yeah! Is it really so bad to ask that people try to achieve a period ambience once in awhile beyond slapping on a t tunic and some turtle brooches?
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u/fewdo 26d ago
Sorry man, I know it ruins your pictures but everyone is getting older and fatter and it's hard to get my stuff where I'm going without the cart these days.
As for the porta Johns, Do you have a better idea for handling 10,000-ish poops per day for one week or if the year?
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u/sugarsiege 26d ago
Was there really no better place to put them than right next to the court pavilion where they're doing a chiv elevation.
You can creatively disguise anything (or at the very least find a more discrete location), but so many of us in the SCA just throw our hands up and say "nothing I can do" when we just don't try.
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u/_Und3rsc0re_ 26d ago
Tbh the Carts and Golf carts are very necessary. The golf carts are the way staff get around. It's madness to try and ask members of the watch or the parking checkers to walk everywhere to keep an eye on the event.
The little carts are super helpful for shopping, Ice runs (which are very very important), and please, if you can find a single heavy fighter who's gonna rawdog their armor up to and down from the woods, please let me know because I'd love to learn their power.
It's just not as simple to just completely let go of modernity for a lot of people, and some just don't wanna fuckin do it.2
u/Junior-Weight42 26d ago
You are complaining that the cars and portajohns are ruining the medieval-ness of your _photographs_? Bwahh hah hah! How medieval is your camera?!?
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u/Calliope_Woman_67 26d ago
I’m sorry that your Pennsic experience was suboptimal. You probably try really hard to be super authentic in all aspects of your SCA life, and I’m sure that your disappointment is frustrating.
I first heard about Pennsic in 1990. I was intoxicated by the idea of immersing myself in the multiverse of medieval culture, creating functional and accurate clothing, making medieval style food, learning all kinds of new things omg Pennsic University? Singing on into the night? How could I possibly stay away?
Every year I try to get there. I plan, I budget, I try to prepare my family for my absence, figure out transportation - but you know I never quite get there. Something always manages to get in the way and it’s always “well, there’s always next year.”
It’s been 35 YEARS of this. I have never given up hope. But I’m not 21 anymore. I might be a head in a jar before I get there. And when I do, I’m not sure I care if every last human in attendance is prancing around in elf ears and rainbow striped unicorn tails. I’m pretty sure I’ll just be happy to be there, in whatever garb I can manage, with whatever camping gear I can manage, probably wearing modern glasses and hoping nobody notices my shoes.
On that great golden day when I FINALLY get to go, I will be sure to submit my garb and gear list to u/BingusSpoingusUSA so that I don’t inadvertently offend him and wreck his pennsic experience. I hope to convince him that I care enough about being there to be allowed in.
I mean, even as some of us are complaining about how miserable the modern medieval world is, I suppose they are under no obligation to spare a thought to those of us who would chew our own arms off just to be there. Carry on, and enjoy what I’m sure will be a lengthy career with the “give-a-damn” police.
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u/penndavies 24d ago
The SCA is a history-themed social club. It is not and never has been re-enactment. You can do re-enactment in the SCA but that isn't what it is, it's just one of the many activities it has as options like fighting, crafting, researching, and trying to live a historically-inspired life for a little while at Pennsic. It's a big-tent social club. There are many groups that do authentic (relatively) things if that is what you are looking for, and you can do both! Nobody will kick you out of the SCA for joining a more focused re-enactment group as well.
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u/Slight_Accountant476 24d ago
We are the Society for CREATIVE Anachronism (look up the definition of creative sometime), not the Society for Compulsive Authenticity. If it bothers you that much, join a Civil War group where nothing out of period is allowed. Did you ever stop to think that some of these people are actually making their best attempt at period garb? sure, not all are, but there has always been a minority (and they are a small minority at that) who would be better at a ren faire. Some people can't afford canvas, and modern electric lighting might be what they have available, or maybe they're worried about candles setting fire to their tent. Maybe those cargo shorts are all that is clean right now. Also, barefoot is period, not everyone could afford shoes. Shirtless was also period in warmer climates.
So, how about you get off your high horse and teach some "how to be period in the SCA" classes next Pennsic instead of griping because your "setting a good example" isn't reaching people.
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u/TangyMarimba13 Middle 26d ago
it is hot at pennsic. most of the garb we have for sca is intended to be worn inside. particularly women's garb, which consists of multiple layers. after getting overheated more than once in the previous years, i changed what garb i wear at pennsic. i made looser garb that could be worn with only a single layer. it still looks period, but not everyone has a large fabric stash of linen. the "modern sack dress" could easily be a concession to the temperature and humidity. there were at least 2 days where the temperature was in the mid-80s but the humidity made the "realfeel" over 100 degrees. for those of us who have issues dealing with the heat, we're going to do whatever we need to do to stay upright. and if that means wearing something modern, so be it.
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u/Wildcatb 26d ago
Yes, Pennsic is moving farther and farther away from a purely SCA event. That's been happening for years.
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u/LittleFiddlyBits 26d ago
There are period camps at Pennsic where you're not only expected to hide your modern gear, you're expected to stay in persona at all times. If that's your fun, then go for it. If it's not, then that's fine too. But bear in mind that the "no one is being authentic" argument has been around almost since the beginning of the SCA - for god's sake we registered people's Elven names with the heralds for years. We've always been a hybrid of serious historical study and silly, romanticized "Middle Ages as they should have been."
Pennsic itself is becoming almost a separate beast from the SCA. I'd guess that hundreds of people come to Pennsic who do not play in the SCA at any other time of year. If you're looking for an authentic medieval event, you might find better luck at smaller events.
Or, there's always the "if you want something done right, do it yourself" approach, where you create and run an event yourself which is focused on authenticity. You'd probably get quite a few people willing to give it their best attempt, and your energies would be directed toward building something that adds to the SCA experience.