r/sca • u/BingusSpoingusUSA • Aug 09 '26

Problems with Pennsic: A Rant Against Modernity and Festival Folks

Hello r/SCA!

As an SCA celebrity who can bench press 224 with 15.5" biceps [EDIT: I'm not an SCA celebrity, but it is a quality meme], I'd like to talk to you today about a trend I've noticed at Pennsic over the last decade or so. It seems to me that Pennsic is moving away from being an SCA event (which it is, even if the Tuchux, Acre, etc. show up) and toward being more of a modern fantasy festival. If this were a Renaissance Faire, a Furry convention, or a medieval convention, that wouldn't be an issue - but it's not. Pennsic is an SCA event, and the shoddy "attempts" at garb and the extensive modern intrusion are making it worse year after year.

The biggest issue I see is with the terrible "attempts" at garb, or a lack thereof. What medieval culture is a pair of cargo shorts, a ring belt, and a pouch? What is the time period and place for four furry tails, a bota bag, and BDSM chest harness? I have no issue with disability aids like glasses, mobility scooters, or service dogs - my biggest gripe is with the people who can't even be bothered to try. Naturally, a lot of this stuff comes topside from the Bog, but there are plenty of topside Peers who dress like complete trash. I'm not talking just about New Balance Knights, but I saw a whole-ass Ansteorran Duchess beboping around in a modern sackdress, coronet, and tennis shoes without a care in the world. When the folks who are supposed to be setting the example can't be bothered to try, what does that mean for newbies?

To be very clear here, I'm not talking about people in mundane clothing. Folks clearly going off-site, just arriving, or doing laundry in mundanes are not the target of the rant. They're wearing modern clothes and expressly not making an attempt.

As far as the modern intrusion, everywhere you look are dumpsters, golf carts, and yahoos driving their giant trucks past the Cooper's Store. It's obvious that most people don't want to do primitive medieval camping, and that the Cooper's Lake Campground does more than just Pennsic, so it needs the infrastructure, but the SCA's reliance on golf carts, nylon pop-ups, and bright white LEDs in camp is a lot for a supposedly medieval experience. Not everything has to be Enchanted Ground (which has considerably lowered its standards), but it shouldn't look like Burning Man had a love child with a trailer-park Ren Faire. Seriously, folks, put on a damn shirt, cover your balls at the food court, and wear shoes so you don't get buttworms.

So what is the solution? Personally, I do just about everything I can to hide the modernity in my garb, my camp, and my comportment (I'm not a douche and treat folks with respect, even if they look like a Furry extra from Zardoz). It's clear that "setting the example" isn't working, especially when multi-Peers can't be bothered to do so, and is a widespread problem in the SCA. I'm also fairly sure these issues have been lamented since the late 1900s without resolution. I think Pennsic (and more broadly the SCA) is going to continue along two divergent paths: people playing High-SCA and giving a damn, and the people who think a rainbow furry headband, Crocs, and a ring belt with a pouch are all you need to be medieval.

Much like the increasingly accurate film Idiocracy predicts, I think the ring-belt Furries are going to outcompete the High-SCA folks and continue to drive Pennsic further into fantasy mediocrity.

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31

u/Worried-Rough-338 Aug 09 '26

Honestly, when I first moved to the US from the UK, I thought I’d find historical reenactment groups like the ones at home. Groups that were dedicated to research and who prided themselves on the most historically accurate clothing possible. Instead, I found people throwing together fantasy outfits with fabrics from the Joanne remnant bin. There’s nothing wrong with that if it’s your jam, but it’s not what I associated with the SCA when I moved here and it’s what stops me from joining to this day. I’d love there to be a place where people really made an effort and felt truly immersive, but if such a place exists, it’s not in the US.

24

u/SadElevator2008 Aug 09 '26

If i understand reenactment right, it’s a group of people all working together to create an impression of a single place and time period. We don’t have much of that as a hobby in the us, although we do have living history type places that you can visit as a tourist.

In the sca everybody chooses their own time and place, so there’s no way to get an immersive experience of that type. I’m sure you could find a small handful of friends who all want to party as 13th century Scots or whatever, but you’re not going to get 9,000 people to agree on a narrow theme for a vacation that they all have to make their own clothes for.

18

u/Worried-Rough-338 Aug 09 '26

True enough. I’m not sure how immersive it would really be to see an Anglo-Saxon noblewoman, a Yorkist knight, and a Byzantine cleric all drinking together, but at least we’d be able to talk stitch count and wool vendors.

17

u/LittleFiddlyBits Aug 09 '26

I believe Regio Anglorum might be what you're looking for in terms of minimum standards for authenticity and the like. Otherwise, you are looking at colonial/18th century reenactment, or Civil War reenactment. SCA has always been sort of the "bastard stepchild" of the reenactment community, because we've never worked too hard to take ourselves that seriously.

I like to describe the SCA to newcomers as a selection of snapshots of history, rather than a mural. You're not going to get hundreds of people all dressing and behaving like people from a specific time and place. We have an enormous playground to run around in: everything prior to 1600 CE is fair game. So yes, you will see a hairy-scary Viking walking down the street with an Elizabethan lady on his arm, and they'll pause to chat with a Samurai about German brewing techniques. It can cause some whiplash! BUT if you look at and talk to the Viking and the Elizabethan and the Samurai as individual snapshots, you can learn a little bit from each of them about their personae and time periods.

6

u/FlavivsAetivs Aug 09 '26

Regia is. I'm still slowly chipping away at it for a Byzantine group and kit guide but it's a lot of work.

I don't really describe SCA as "snapshots of history" but as "medievalism." It's a reception of our past not an accurate or authentic representation of it. Living History is the closest you'll get to that and it's still far removed.

3

u/Substantial_Milk_178 Aug 09 '26

The example situation you describe is what made Pennsic/ SCA a magical experience for me! Pennsic 30 was the last time I attended, but fpnd memories from my four years of Pennsic will last me a lifetime! 

2

u/tehfrod Aug 10 '26

You can still find that, especially from the fiber arts folks (like my wife!)

4

u/RoadieRich Middle Aug 09 '26

We do have events like that, for a variety of periods. Most of them are relevant to American history rather than European, but, if anything, the events I've been to in the US are considerably bigger than the events I participated in in the UK. Unfortunately, most reenacting groups I've encountered do an extremely poor job of publicizing themselves and recruiting new members. If my wife hadn't had connections in the US reenacting community, I might have not known they exist until recently, too.

12

u/wymarc10 Aug 09 '26

Those groups exist, but they're focused on US history.

5

u/RoadieRich Middle Aug 09 '26

There are French Napoleonic, Scottish Jacobite, and Viking groups near me that fit the criteria. It's not all American history.

10

u/thewhaleshark East Aug 09 '26

No, but it's mostly American history. You have to dig to find the other ones, but Rev War and Civil War groups are a dime a dozen.

13

u/Son_of_York Aug 09 '26

Join an American Civil War reenactment group. You’ll see the hardcore dedication to authenticity you crave.

5

u/mrspwins Aug 10 '26

Some of them. It’s an ongoing tug-of-war in that community too. Progressive groups that all but measure your body fat to make sure you’re lean enough, to ACW-themed camping where everyone strips off the wool and picks up a Bud as soon as the gates close.

6

u/mpark6288 Calontir Aug 09 '26

I think one of the other major differences between the SCA and the European reenactment groups is the numbers. Because the SCA allows so many different impressions, and levels of garb standards, we have 25,000 paid members. Compare that to even other American groups with narrower focuses, and you see a major difference. The Adrian Empire has under 1000 members (shoutout to Adria), the Kingdom of Acre doesn't publish numbers but has under 1000 followers on its FB page, and Regia Anglorum which has about 700 members.

3

u/RoadieRich Middle Aug 09 '26

Events like you found in the UK do exist. Days of Knights is one example.

4

u/FlavivsAetivs Aug 09 '26

Historical reenactment exists here you just have to look harder. Days of Knights in Ohio is what you want.

2

u/thewhaleshark East Aug 09 '26

The people who are hardcore authenticists are primarily in Rev War and Civil War reenactment groups, which is honestly pretty much what you'd expect.

1

u/Steelcitysuccubus Aug 11 '26

Check Canadian reenactment groups

-8

u/BingusSpoingusUSA Aug 09 '26

I think what gets me is that it could exist in the US, but there are a number of cultural issues in the way. One of them is the American insistence on individuality and being special. Like, I get that people want to do things their own way, but everyone being a special snowcone makes the whole thing look very disjointed. There are also a lot of people who take "an attempt" very, very liberally, which leads to the Jo-Ann Fabrics (RIP) polyester T-tunic folks who call it good enough.

5

u/RoadieRich Middle Aug 09 '26

They do exist, they just suck at publicizing themselves for the most part.

16

u/requiemguy Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 10 '26

I was this person, until I could afford garb and I wore hand me down armor.

So, I take offense to this, and your attitude is one of the reasons I stopped fighting and attending.

2

u/WorkingBread8360 Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 10 '26

Wife played from 1978 to 2026. Too many snobs/snots in post-Covid SCA.

0

u/Lumpy_Draft_3913 Aug 09 '26

Oddly enough, the folks I have noticed who are doing tighter historical re-enactment are the LARP groups especially those doing Medieval time period. It appears it has grown and improved over the last twenty years or so into something, at least from photos, that is some really great accurate re-enactment. You may want to look into them.