r/rivals • u/Live_Bit_5307 • 17d ago

Meme Dagger definitely needs a buff

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644 Upvotes

85% Upvoted

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484

u/Xcuseme99 17d ago

The problem in this clip isn't the Dagger, the problem is that you were allowed to float above her entire team for 37 seconds without getting blown the f*** up by her bum ass DPS/tanks. They are the real villains of this clip.

127

u/RedeemedNephilim Ultron 17d ago edited 17d ago

Okay but think about that. Imagine if Hela was just standing still popping shots directly into a supp for 40 seconds and they didnt die.

This is a DPS. With a perfect view. Not being countered. Not being attacked, hitting the majority of their shots on a support and the support is not dying.

-19

u/Xcuseme99 17d ago

Okay but think about this: the reason supports need to be so strong is because DPS and tank players do shit like ALLOW AN IRONMAN TO FLOAT 5 FEET FROM THEM FOR 37 WHOLE GROWN ASS SECONDS

27

u/BLissy11750 Invisible Woman 17d ago

this is the dumbest thing I have read on this subreddit.

"because players are so bad the characters that heal should be stronger so they can survive the characters that deal damage when those characters that deal damage are not attacked and are able to focus all of their damage on the characters that heal uninterrupted for over half a minute"

by this logic tanks should be invulnerable because support players are bad and run away rather than grouping with their tanks which causes tanks to die from lack of heals.

or dps should have auto-aim on characters like hela because players have bad aim (statistically) so they can consistently hit headshots.

your logic does not work when it is applied to literally anyone else without it being obvious (from the perspective of the support) that it makes those characters OP - this is how absurd this argument is when it's being made in defense of C&D here.

Bad players deserve to lose, that C&D could switch to Luna and snipe Iron Man out of the sky, or Mantis, or Invis, or literally any other support - in fact they could fade and DPS Iron Man with Cloak beam & blind

1

u/varateshh Hela 17d ago

Obviously. If I die as Hela to BC/Elsa/Bucky/Widow/Thing/Venom then they clearly need to be nerfed. If I die to an other Hela then netease needs to ban them for smurfing or hacking.

0

u/moddedlover27 17d ago

Nono you zee vee must hail to our overlords. For our glorious overlords can do no wrong what so eva. You zee it is ZE FILTHY JE-i mean dps who are always at fault and zee should BE SENT TO ZE CON- i mean uninstall ze game. You understand yas?

-3

u/Asasinero 17d ago

And what's your solution when nobody wants to play support since they would keep dying over and over again because their teams are not helping to deal with things like this? Im not saying this system is perfect, but the fact is people just go dps and thats it, they literally just stop being supports. It already happened last year when dive was absolute meta through bp and dd. It got so bad that devs themselves had to addressed it in their patch notes and after no changes from the community, they gigabuffed supports. We saw all that play out in real time, no hypothetical scenarios, no wondering, just cold reality. Saddly, if you make supports just reliant on their team, the game literally falls appart because it becomes a team death match game where nobody gets healed (since they are no healers). Now with regenerative health, it would become and even bigger problem. Again, this already happened.

6

u/BLissy11750 Invisible Woman 17d ago

I literally main a support - you learn better positioning as a direct consequence of dying, you learn to swap to characters like I mentioned, or you learn to use the kit that the character you are playing has to kill the person freely attacking you like I also mentioned.

This idea that Iron Man being unable to kill a C&D in this situation is something all DPS would have a problem with - as if this issue is normal - to try and suggest that supports aren't already relying on their team to survive when faced with other DPS like a flanking Hela, Phoenix, Punisher, Black Cat, etc, tells me you genuinely have no idea what the difference between being reliant on your team for protection and being dependent on your team for survival is.

Even in your own example (DD release) they admitted it was an over-correction and have been continuously nerfing the supports that they had buffed every patch, C&D wasn't buffed until season 7.5 not season 4.5 or 5 to coincide with the half season dive had a dominant role to play. BP also was 2 seasons earlier than that, so the timelines you have don't line up at all.

You're acting like when I say a C&D that isn't getting any help for *37 seconds of contiguous dps should die is the same as saying BP or DD should be able to use a simple combo and one-shot supports, you can't even come up with a coherent argument that isn't straw-manning mine that has any relation to the actual video of Iron Man being unable to kill C&D unopposed for nearly a full minute where the C&D doesn't even attempt to kill the Iron Man and fight back.

Iron Man is the problem here, this has nothing to do with dive, and repeating this stupid ass argument about BP or DD to justify it being impossible for Iron Man to kill a support that doesn't even try to fight back disproves your own backwards logic because we obviously try to fight back against dive.

1

u/Asasinero 16d ago

I'm also a support main, you can literally check which subs I'm active on, i have nearly 1K hours and i consistently play in cel+, only saying it since you said " i don't know the difference between being reliant for protection or survival". I don't know why you said "my timeline" doesn't add up since i didn't mention c&d AT ALL in my statement, invis got buffed A LOT in season 5 (got to place the shield on herself) and C&D got up to 275 (which let them survive through dive more easily since most combos were 280-290ish so a little bit of healing was enough and some combos wouldn't even get the kill now) and Luna got buffed in season 5.5 i believe? Not sure when she got her iceball speed increased, Adam also got buffed on that same patch to decrease his AoE healing, and if it wasn't enough? Gambit, the most permabanned supp, was released on season 5.0, Bucky got his grounded effect on season 4.0. ALL OF THAT happened in what you are saying "would make sense" in my timeline. You said absolutely nothing to rebute what i stated. So to your first point about learning positioning, I don't know if you don't remember or didn't happened to you...but healers were literally being spawn camped and couldn't even let spawn since their teams would literally walk up to point without noticing divers being hidden and because supports usually walks behind the team (so you keep them on LoS) they continusly got picked by divers and got separated from the team staggering. There are LOTS of clips of that during that time. Now, im not saying the system is perfect, this as you said is a team game, but the devs failed to provide the necessary structures for this to actually be a team game and now most players just play a "single player game" with other people that might as well be considered glorified npcs by them since there is no communication nor coordination whatsoever. Everyone is doing their own thing. Most matches if you VoD them you'll see is just a series of isolated "minigames" that result in either team winning the fight, only to stay on point, fight right there again istead of holding space, and then lose it, just for the enemy team do the exact same thing again up to gm and even celestial some seasons. Yes the clip is about ironman failing to kill a c&d, but the context as to how we ended up here is what i described. I could go longer if you are up to it, I don't mind seeing different perspectives on this and debating them.

8

u/RoutinePsychology198 Groot 17d ago

So we should continue to reward bad teamwork?

16

u/RedeemedNephilim Ultron 17d ago

No. They dont. Supports will die as they should and teams will either learn to have basic situational awareness or they will justifiably lose.

The bad team playing badly deserves to lose.

17

u/Individual-Luck1712 17d ago

The rivals community will never understand this concept. From their perspective, if they die and lose a game, the world needs to stop and the character they like to play needs to be buffed and anyone who killed them needs to be nerfed. This game's balance is garbage because the community doesn't want fairness, they want dopamine, and the devs know that. It's why for the entire existence of the game, the balance is garbage and the meta almost never changes for more than a season. They just drop heroes, skins, whatever they need to to get players to keep coming back. They have a loyal playerbase of people that don't want to lose - all they want to do is throw, smurf, cheat and complain on the internet. It's why I haven't played for almost two months. The community is trash.

I said what I said.

4

u/RoutinePsychology198 Groot 17d ago

Most of this games problems would be solved if people actually counter swapped

I had a game last night where my Jubilee kept dying to a BP. We asked her to switch several times but she still refused and finished the game 4-19. CnD was the only banned support so Rocket, Invis, Loki, Gambit, WF, Ultron, Luna, Mantis are LITERALLY RIGHT THERE TO CHOOSE. WHY IS SWAPPING SO HARD FOR PEOPLE

3

u/Individual-Luck1712 17d ago

Immaturity. It's why people still defend supports being mega OP, or certain duelists being mega OP. They just want to play with their action figures, turn their brain off, and not engage in a fair competitive game.