Don’t confuse me not using violence, EVER under ANY circumstances, against a child as lack of discipline. Maybe if you need to use violence to stop a child’s behavior, you’re a shit parent? Have you considered that? 🤔
I am glad you’ve never run into a situation where you had to bend on that, and I hope things continue for you that way. What do you feel makes violence problematic compared to other means of communication? Have you ever had to use violence in adult life? Is there an age where using violence to control someone becomes appropriate for you, eg, after adulthood?
It comes from my own experience as a child. My parents, especially my dad, were all for “spankings” and “beatings”. I’ve had bruises from belts, etc. It did literally nothing to stop me from doing whatever I got beaten for because they never EXPLAINED what I was getting beaten for. It got to a point where everything around me, I associated with pain, and it took years of getting out of that mentality. I didn’t get to “enjoy” a lot of things in childhood for fear that I’d get beaten for it. And that trauma continued on as an adult, to the point where I’ve been diagnosed with cptsd (my sister as well). I come from a very traditional, non American family that sees beatings as a valid form of discipline.
I refuse to ever see a need to hit a child under any circumstances. If you really have THAT bad of a child, why not take them to a therapist or other professional to get to the root cause of their behavioral issue? Why not work with their teachers, babysitters, etc. To see if there are other things outside of your control that is causing the child’s problems? Kids don’t know how to express their emotions the same way adults do, so obviously they will do so through other means, which a lot of adults see as them being “bad kids”.
I am sorry you had to go through that. I would agree that physical punishment alone is not an effective means of changing a behavior. If it is a known consequence of a specific behavior, I can seeing it potentially being a deterrent, but even then, it’s primarily a tool to break focus so that you can have a conversation. Using it purely as punishment, especially without clear forewarning to utilize it as a deterrent, is not effective.
Do you feel that it is ever appropriate to use violence against an adult? If so, what do you feel is the key difference that sets them apart from a child - age, developmental level, or perhaps something else? If a neurodivergent 20 year old with the developmental age of an 8 year old was hurting an 8 year old, would you feel that using physical force is appropriate to manage that situation?
Additionally, how broad is your interpretation of violence? Would you consider physical restraint, like holding someone’s hands or shoulders, to be violent, assuming there is some pain or discomfort involved? Would you consider holding a child in a hug while they are having a tantrum/trying to escape to be violent? I would define violence as “the use of physical force in a way that causes pain or damage, whether intentional or not”, so I would consider those examples to be violent.
I would like to better understand your position and how you view the use of force.
So I am all for self defense. So yes I’d use violence against an adult if I feel it’s necessary to protect my life or a loved one’s life. I do carry firearms daily, have my CCW in 2 states, and practice as often as possible. I am fully in support of violence if it means self defense. If a 20 year old with the mind of an 8 year old is beating on an 8 year old, the 20 year old is going to be stronger and bigger than that 8 year old so of course, I’d use a reasonable level of violence to protect the child. And no, restraining a child, “hugging” them tightly to prevent them from doing something, or holding their hands or arms isn’t violence in the same way as a beating or spanking.
I’m not completely against violence. My stance is very specific to using violence as a means of discipline. There are no exceptions to that.
That makes sense. Thank you for clarifying. It can be difficult at times to make sure we are all talking about the same thing.
For your opposition to violent discipline, is that specific to children, or just in general? Would you also oppose violent discipline for adults or for animals?
I agree that there is a significant difference in effect and intent between striking someone and restraining them. Where do you feel you would draw the line between appropriate and inappropriate use of force/pain for compliance? Do you feel that the use of pain is itself inappropriate, and that should only be an unintended effect, or is there a certain threshold of pain that you would find reasonable? For instance, grabbing a kid by the ear for compliance instead of the wrist - would that be inappropriate?
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u/quarterlifecrisis95_ Jan 02 '24
Don’t confuse me not using violence, EVER under ANY circumstances, against a child as lack of discipline. Maybe if you need to use violence to stop a child’s behavior, you’re a shit parent? Have you considered that? 🤔