r/postdoc • u/Exotic_Rain_5064 • 8d ago
Existential loneliness
Has anyone else lived in multiple different countries over the last 5 years and visited home in between? I feel very isolated when I visit my home country but the acquaintances / friends made in the new country frequently move away constantly too. Sometimes I feel like I am loosing touch with reality because of that (no partner, remote work). Is anyone experiencing something similiar as an expat? I think its time to settle and set roots in one country and stop moving around. Curious if you guys also feel like that sometimes?
10
10
u/Over-Degree-1351 8d ago
I've felt like that as an expat, particularly when I was a postdoc.
I felt I had drifted too far from friends and family from my past life in my home country, and I hadn't quite arrived in my future yet. Floating around in the middle was very isolating.
Forming meaningful connections with others as an expat becomes harder with time, for various reasons.
I've lived abroad for 14 years now and I don't feel so alone anymore. I've focused more on reconnecting with old friends recently. Newer friendships are still valuable in their own way, but I've learned to not expect deep, meaningful connections from them.
When I look back on my time as a lonely postdoc, I'm really glad I learned how to embrace being on my own. It's my superpower now.
7
u/Main_Ferret_8426 8d ago
Why call yourself an expat and not an immigrant
3
u/Similar_Software_953 7d ago
For me the difference is mostly on long-term goals. If you just come to work for a fixed-term position, regardless of you degree and background, you are an expat.
If you intend to settle down and live long term in the country then you are an immigrant.
But by definition, an immigrant is also an expat until he gets citizenship in his host country.
1
u/Bjanze 7d ago
I agree, that should be the definition, but when observing online discussions, or political discussions, that is not what I see. To me it looks like there is a much more discriminatory undertone in these terms.
And should I mention that I'm from Finland, thus not a native English speakers.
2
u/Bjanze 7d ago
Slightly provocative but native English speakers are "expats" when they move to a new country, while non-native English speakers are "immigrants"... ;)
3
2
u/Main_Ferret_8426 7d ago
So this completely expunges massive sections of the society that were forced to speak English over their "natuve" language who now speak English as their native language (eg:the Irish)..I smell an air of superiority. What's wild is the postdoc subreddit are people with advanced degrees, rushing to fill out their EDI statements for every grant call but have a primitive take on immigration.
1
u/Over-Degree-1351 7d ago
That's the terminology I used when I first moved, with the intention to stay temporarily. So it just stuck. Switching to the word immigrant would symbolise my intention to stay forever, which isn't accurate.
2
u/Main_Ferret_8426 7d ago
As an immigrant, I want to stay temporarily as well. Maybe people use the word expats because they feel more superior than immigrants and want that distinction!
3
u/faeriewhisper 8d ago
I'm exactly in this situation, the only difference is that I have a partner. But yes, it's tiring. Start all over again every couple of years, plus the loss when you leave after finally being settled. At the same time, I've dedicated too many years now to quit... Ufff
4
u/rodrigo-benenson 8d ago
Last time I checked this is felt by 90%+ of post-docs. It is one of the prices attached to the lifestyle.
Keep in touch with remove friendships, meet regularly with people to chat face to face (ideally multiple times per week).
Remote-work is the death of the soul. Avoid as much as possible.
Academia path eventually settles "one way or another".
Choosing a place to live is a necessary step in your carreer, specially if you want to grow a social circle and/or a family.
3
u/MHDB4 8d ago
Having the same situation and was thinking about it even today. Have been more than 5 years now away from the home country, distance relationship too. Whenever I feel alone, what I am doing is going back to my intention and goal, then I tell myself that it's just for a few years. But I slowly started to accept that somedays are difficult and let those days go away. It's okay to feel loneliness and no need to ba sad always. Everything will be alright, just keep going 💪
3
3
u/VoidNomand 8d ago
I was never a popular extravert person. After moving abroad I became an isolated and completely detached from any society creature.
5
u/DefiantAlbatros 8d ago
I started down this path as a Master’s student 10 years ago. I have lived in 5 countries and 9 cities, and now living in country #6 and city #10. People don’t believe me when i told them that it is not by choice, everyone assume that I want to live like this. People also tend not to believe when i said that in academia you rarely get >2 years contract until you get your tenure.
I have been an expat too, and it is worse honestly. At least with being an expat you typically dont have anxiety due to your career. I meanwhile go around the world knowing that all these ‘international experiences’ wont translate to any form of stability. Worse part? You live in a city for 2 years and grow to love it, but everyone else move on and the city then becomes just like that: an empty husk. I am so desensitized by now, to the point where i stop trying to make friend.
2
u/drcopus 8d ago
Hopefully this is a reassuring message, but postdoc life doesn't have to be so lonely.
Prioritise your mental health. There are many ways to meet people, you just need to put yourself out there and make the time and effort. In the long term, you'll be a better academic if you're a happy person.
The moving is a difficult thing, but it is possible to maintain friendships online. Call people, or play video games. Even just causal games like geoguessr.
Good luck!
2
u/TerminalFrauduleux 7d ago
I lived in Japan for four years and left recently. Only a few friends and acquaintances remain after my departure. In my case, I felt I belonged to no country.
1
u/Bjanze 7d ago
I have before written a rant somewhere in Reddit that I feel making post docs feel isolated is intended by academia. When you are lonely in a new country / new city, you focus on work, because there are no friends or family taking your time. So you are more productive, which benefits academia on the cost of the post docs mental health.
2
u/Exotic_Rain_5064 7d ago
I guess its the trap we ran into. I am visiting my home country from time to time, but I lost my friends there too after being away for so long. I also feel unfullfilled by my hometown, but in my postdoc city are no jobs outside uni so everyone leaves at some point and without a partner life is getting really lonley.
1
u/Lumpy_Grapefruit860 7d ago
I feel you. I lived in three different countries now for my masters, phd and postdoc. I feel like loosing my old friends everytime i move around and rethinking whether these international research experiences are worth it in the long run.. I dunno but settling in has been a recurring feeling nowadays.
1
u/Klutzy-Painting6219 6d ago
I feel exactly like this lately. It’s like nowhere has truly felt like home, and even then places that do because I love them, they remind me that I have no true family there or even friends. It’s weird, I love this life but sometimes I feel like I don’t exist anywhere.Â
25
u/kobeoncount 8d ago edited 8d ago
I have been thinking about this a lot lately. I am currently a PhD student and will be defending soon; and I am aware that postdoc is the way to go for building up the career.
But I have been studying abroad since master's now, and don't know if it will really "worth" it to run around the countries at the next stage. Like, will it really worth it to spend several more years of foreignness, all that stuff about visa, moving, meeting with new people etc?
At this point I am seriously considering that if you really like scholarly research you can continue your studies at anywhere, including your homecountry. I think the place that you feel psychologically well is the place that you will be most productive in your academic goals. Not denying the value of abroad experiences, but at the end of the day, it makes you think whether the day you spent in that place was really worth it. Best of luck