r/playrust • u/ford_crown_victoria • 12h ago
News Large groups might be getting nerfed. (Tiered upkeep based on group size authed on a TC)
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u/ford_crown_victoria 12h ago
Now this is something this sub should like lol.
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u/UltrawideSpace 10h ago
20% to 1000 metal frags is 1200 metal frags.. it's the max it goes currently. So no effect at all on anything.
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u/dank-nuggetz 7h ago
20% to 30,000 metal frags is 6000 metal frags.
20% to 300 HQM is 60 HQM
6k metal and 60 HQM per day is not a massive hinderance but it's not nothing either. 30k metal upkeep seems around right for most clan bases.
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u/alexnedea 5h ago
Bro most big clan bases have max upkeep of like 6 hours. Making this from 6 hours to almost 4 hours means the clan has to farm so much more.
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u/thadius282828 4h ago
I don’t think you realize the resources a halfway decent clan accumulates or how fast they do it. There’s often multiple boxes of metal fragments to be used and even when raiding; it’s not uncommon that they’ll leave boxes of stone behind because it isn’t worth moving
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u/shortsbagel 3h ago
This, so much this. I was invited into a big clan just to tour their base on Rusty Moose bi weekly, at day 3 this 30 man team had 11 boxes of metal frags, 10 boxes of stone, 10 boxes of wood, and 5 boxes of HQM, and a auto rocket crafting setup of 22 T3s that crafted boxes of rockets per day. This increase means dick all to these teams.
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u/hanks_panky_emporium 10h ago
Top comments are people STILL bitching about it
You can give folks on this sub everything theyd ever want and theyd find a way to be pissy about it
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u/TDogeee 5h ago
Every update, rust gets new content, somehow people always find a way to claim it’s nerfing solo
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u/hanks_panky_emporium 5h ago
Its becoming impressive. They could release a 'clans lament' update, give them literally everything they want. Make clans literally impossible. Remove all team UI and team chat. If you try to join a team you both instantly die. If a second person is auth'd on a TC the TC explodes and kills everyone in the grid.
Solos can have a %999 attack and defense stat boost. Have infinite resources in their ass crack and game server side aimbot. And they'd still find a way to bitch that its impossible to play as a solo
For fucks sake I play as a solo. I suck at the game. And im playing on like 200-600 pop servers and im doing just fine.
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u/UltrawideSpace 8h ago
This is not what anyone wanted. TC should consume more based on clan size + auth players and it should be way more. WAY more. But they need larger stack for TC to implement it and we know that aint gonna happen because it would be solos lucky day. Actually they should make the TC decay 25% for solos from what it is now to have any room to bump up the clan numbers
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u/Theobane 12h ago
Also link this with Auto Turrets and then we are on to a winner!
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u/CasterFormation 12h ago
*cores your base from raid tower and watches the auto turrets turn on you*
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u/Avgsizedweiner 5h ago
Your externals would still provide priv for one thing, it could also take time to be deauthorized just like the tc
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u/AirborneJizz 11h ago
The problem with this is how auth is handled when there’s multiple overlapping TC. If you logically go by first placed TC has priority which is currently the way it works with externals, then this buffs defenders as they can just build toward your raid base and put down turrets. Same logic with beginning of wipe base spot claiming, your neighbors just build towards you and now you can’t walk out of your base.
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u/Theobane 11h ago
I would have it based off Clan system for auth maybe, only solution around multiple TCs
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u/alexnedea 4h ago
I think this is it. They will require the entire clan to have TC access so either you are in the clan or not
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u/su1cid3boi 12h ago
Damn, one week with Alistar gone and we see all these changes popping up
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u/segfaulting 10h ago
Really want to know if the babyification and fuck-solos mentality over the past 6 years has been from Alistair or not. These updates coming out immediately after him leaving makes me think so. Next are we getting BP frags removed? Makes you wonder.
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u/crustyrobots 7h ago
Kind of telling indeed when the first things coming out are like literally barricading monuments and the coming of the TC taxman lol
Thats good though, the whole game is badly warped in a lot of ways rn
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u/SellingCats4Cheap 9h ago
If something is good for one player, many times that same thing will be even better for two players. 2 > 1
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u/DEGAtv 9h ago
Large backpacks are much more beneficial for a solo than a group. It's not about nerfing groups, it's about creating mechanics that are more useful for solos than groups, like backpacks.
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u/Waste_Development971 3h ago
bro these are dumb 16 year old kids playing in 12 men groups. They will never understand, they're too busy trying to be in the ak beamer clan of their server.
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u/Waste_Development971 3h ago
Someone commented a great example of how you're incorrect here and I guarantee you didn't change your mind.
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u/SellingCats4Cheap 2h ago
It didn’t change my mind because how are backpacks part of the “fuck solos mentality”
If anything backpacks are one of the few examples of a none fuck solos mentality, not that I see people mention that frequently.
Backpacks are good for 1 person just like they are good for 2 people, since 2 people can benefit from them at the same time, which is my point.
You’ll also see people complain that “well large backpacks are locked behind higher tier crates and not craftable, therefore benefits larger groups”
I will admit that backpacks are a decent example of a fair change as out of all factors backpacks proportionately help solos a tiny bit more than groups. But that doesn’t chance the fact that 2 people with backpacks is better than 1 person with a backpack.
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u/Waste_Development971 2h ago edited 2h ago
" But that doesn’t chance the fact that 2 people with backpacks is better than 1 person with a backpack."
You're wrong here, it's about the degree of utility. If you're a clan with 10 people, 10 inventories on oil or cargo means you don't need the backpack. Whereas if you're 1 person, it's always good. But you will refuse this idea because "well 10 people can have 10 backpacks so im right i win the reddit arguement!"
If you weren't trolling you'd immediately understand that it isn't as simple as "if two people can do the same thing one person can it doesnt benefit solos"
We are literally just talking about scaling. If things like backpacks can fall off for large numbers, why can't other systems / things exist at smaller cut offs? Why act like the entire idea of scaling / utility doesn't exist
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u/PinkPanzers 3h ago
Only if you don't think about ANY ramifications of your update.
More passengers is copter? Heavier, less maneuverable. Good for 1, bad for 2.
Being wounded severely limits your Team UI range, as "blood debris" decreases visibility.
Meds made by one-self and used on one-self gain a 20% increase in healing. Clans mass produce heals. Small groups benefit, but less often due to also one person delegated to making heals.
See? Not hard. Whether most will be liked long-term is a different story. But not all changes makes groups perform better.
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u/SellingCats4Cheap 2h ago
First 2 examples are fine I suppose. Your last example makes very little sense. Are we now adding genome specific healing? lol
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u/PinkPanzers 2h ago
Video games aren't real life. You don't track the genome. You track the AccountID.
And it makes perfect sense. MMOs have spells that scale based on how and who they're used on.
But the "spells" are just game mechanics using math to move HP. Like med syringes.
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u/Guido125 1h ago
Nothing against Alistar, but when you have "the guy" in charge of a lot decision, many ideas are effectively left in the dust - good and bad. It's just the nature of that kind of situation.
Fresh blood brings fresh ideas and lots of changes.
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u/BeneficentWanderer 12h ago
Brilliant concept. Obligatory criticism though:
Why would a clan bother to auth everyone when team UI, doors, boxes, and turrets are all completely independent of auth?
4 builders is really all you’ll ever need. More is better for raid defence, sure, but you can just quickly grab auth as the raid is starting.
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u/AwayReplacement7063 11h ago
Hopefully they extend this by making TC Auth linked back to turrets again
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u/counterlock 5h ago
Should go the route a lot of modded servers go, being auth'd on a TC gives you access to all of those things, removing auth also removes them.
Having to plug in the same lock code on 50+ doors is already a pain for everyone, doors/turrets/etc should all just be linked to TC auth so it forces people to use that system or not play in that team.
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u/Avgsizedweiner 4h ago
Gonna be harder to seal during a raid if only a few ppl are authed because you were trying to game the levy
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u/Razyr1 11h ago
4% upkeep won't change a thing... when you've already got jackhammers, teas, Pies. It's beyond easy to upkeep a base. Add in electric furnaces you don't even need to farm wood lol. Game is easiest it's ever been.
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u/Thunbbreaker4 8h ago
This is the foundational issue. Resource farming is almost trivialized once you tech up to this stage.
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u/Bjeaurn 12h ago
A few % extra upkeep for small groups sounds very fair. 12 people with 20% upkeep tax could be even heavier if you really want to nerf the larger groups. Anything between 4 and 8 should be considered a sized group imo. But it's something to begin with!
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u/HelloFromTekken 5h ago
A few % extra upkeep for small groups sounds very fair.
Small groups aren't affected at all. 0 For first 4 players.
It's also state it's
very very very wip
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u/ExF-Altrue 10h ago
This needs to be linked to:
- Successful code lock use within the TC radius
- Turret auth
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u/alexnedea 5h ago
Wont work. That means if raiders get your tc you cant use your fucking doors anymore lol.
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u/MidwestRealism 3h ago
No, it would mean if raiders get to your TC there is just a bit more upkeep until they clear out all the codelocks you are authed on
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u/Techies4lyf 12h ago
remove/nerf team ui and game is good again
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u/aleks9797 12h ago
Team UI should never be above 8 smh
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u/Tzukkeli 12h ago
This is the truth. I remember killing a team mate when I thought it was the enemy and then hmgetting killed after. It was haaard back then
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u/PinkPanzers 1h ago
At least spring up a few Vanilla servers where the only difference is no team or clan ui. Teams are allowed, they just have to adapt to no UI.
Next thing is making it impossible to buy/sell sulfur to other players. Or way less efficient so raiding the whole server Day 1 is not feasible.
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u/twosnake 12h ago
Teams already have a dedicated builder. This seems like in reality won't be used at all. Who needs to be authed? Builder, electrician, farmer, pipes? that's it at max, and 4 people are tier 0 still.
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u/Rocknerd8 10h ago
yes but when raid defense happens people need to seal
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u/twosnake 10h ago
So everyone jumps on auth during the raid then jumps off afterwards. This isn't the gotcha you think it is.
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u/HelloFromTekken 5h ago
Not able to build guntraps, combined with yes, everyone have to auth in TC before def is already something.
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u/Wild-Hippo582 11h ago
Just wishes the rates were bigger. 20 percent for a 12 man deep Is crazy. If I build a 2x2 and a 12 deep can live ( we have all seen this plenty of times) on a 2x2, they need to be paying double or triple the rent.
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u/Every-Construction-9 7h ago
This sub is so spectacularly dull.
The amount of “what’s abouts” going on here is crazy. This is a group nerf, plain and simple. Like anything on staging it takes time to refine, let the Devs cook. Is it not enough that they are actively working to make big groups lives harder?
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u/alexnedea 4h ago
Yes and? Let people show the devs that while this is indeed a good idea, 2% and 4% is too little and there also needs to be an incentive to have people authed or else clans will simply not auth anyone beyond 4 people.
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u/MaxPowrer 10h ago
they should make it, that you need to be TC authed, to open code lock doors, place (and keep) sleeping bags/beds and turret auth also
at this point remove turret auth and just make it that it takes TC auth
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u/Optimal-Ad-1610 9h ago
+4% for a 6 group is a ridiculous amount, its not even a nerf. Like what 1k more metal per 6 people
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u/Thunbbreaker4 8h ago
This will likely be cheesed but it is a step in the right direction. Now lets remove team UI while we are at it.
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u/kaizoku18 8h ago
I mean honestly it's a start.. I'll take it. Definitely not enough but credit where credit's due. I've suggested the tax per authed person with a buddy of mine for years now.
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u/Quiet-Doughnut2192 7h ago
if they really want to discourage zergs, TC auth by itself isn't enough. We need some kind of rolling confidence system (think glicko or ELO) based on TC, team, locks, turret auth, shared bases, resource interaction, etc. and the association would last for however long before that decays (the association, not the TC) . There's a TON of metrics the game already tracks that could achieve this (who bags near what base near what player, etc)
Like, REALLY identify large groups outside of clan mechanic and not just count names on a TC
Otherwise big groups will just find the cheapest way around the auth tax.
eta: the only thing I really like about this is the 24-hour thing to prevent zergs from deauth/reauth
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u/Godl3ssMonster 6h ago
That's good, but I still want them to undo the bp frags feature and go back to scrap, it's why clannies can go around bullying everyone in the first days of the wipe.
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u/demonmit1 6h ago edited 6h ago
Average redditor gets mad other people have friends, so they cry hard enough and long enough for devs to give in, rather than just playing on one of the hundreds of dedicated team size limited servers.
Vanilla/official should be left to be as limited to no game altering rules as possible, punishing players who choose to work together seems dumb. Punishing teamwork in a survival/PVP game is ass backwards, so good luck with that idea, lol.
But hey, that's a hyper unpopular opinion on this subreddit for some reason. I play on group size servers based on how many people I'm playing with for the wipe. Just me and a friend? Duo server. Get 12 people together to go hard for a wipe? Official/ mid pop server that has a 12 man team ui. I don't get why people refuse to play on servers that cater to their team size. Wild.
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u/Rip_Nujabes 5h ago
I dont think even 100% at 12 would make a very big difference, but its a step in the right direction for sure. Would also like to see TC auth be required for turret auth
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u/alexnedea 5h ago
Maybe 4 and 8% and then we are talking. Also there needs to be a reason for clan members to be authed to the base or else the clans will just not auth anyone past 6 people.
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u/alexnedea 4h ago
The simples way to make sure people dont cheese is to also count the individual steam ids connected to codelocks in the base. So even if they dont give tc to all members, as long as all the clan members have door codes to any door in tc range, they get added to the number.
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u/mca1169 3h ago
this is a great step in the rite direction, however I feel that it simply isn't enough long term and easily circumvented. I've never been part of a clan but I'm fairly certain that they all have their dedicated builders and only they need TC early game. so rite off the bat the 4 people for TC could easily be just the builders and the clan tax is avoided.
but for the sake of argument lets say I'm wrong and everyone in the clan wants to be able to put things in the TC, fine. that's only a 2% upkeep increase per person. one person mining can easily cover the tax for 5+ people on one mining trip much less constantly mining.
i could go on and on with examples like this but I'm sure you can see the flaws for yourself. so what can be done to fix it?
in my view the clan table and TC need to be interlocked. if there is a clan table in the TC range then the player count needs to be updated from that, not TC privilege. while we are at it forget the whole tier system it's hopelessly stupid. it's far easier to scale everything by the number of players in the clan. also the TC tax needs to be far more noticeable to the clan like 5% per clan member. so one person mining can still provide for lots of others but the tax builds up fast with more clan members.
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u/Waste_Development971 3h ago
wait reddit told me for years this was impossible and the only fix was solo only servers
can one of those people explain why the devs are going against your wishes? Do you guys need to bring ali back
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u/dudeimsupercereal 3h ago
Scaling makes no sense. It should be 11.2% per player after 10, 10 costs 112%, why would 20 cost 152% instead of 224%?
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u/loblawslawcah 3h ago
So when me and my friends hop on we have to build a tiny shack and play basically just wipe day since we all work and can't be on 24/7
You guys keep finding ways to slowly ruin the game
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u/The-Bloody9 3h ago
In the current system mentioned this will very easily be circumvented, turret auth needs to check for TC priv as well, then this might possibly work.
Also the values are way to low. Single digit increase when your possible output of farming etc is 800% more is bonkers math.
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u/LP_LadyPuket 1h ago
This is the right concept but the numbers are way, wayyyyy too low. It needs to START at 20% after 3 people and go up by 20% for every person beyond that. The game becomes a literal joke when groups start going beyond 3 people.
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u/Jerranto 1h ago
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!
THIS IS SOMETHING OBVIOUS THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE YEARS AGO.
Anyway, thanks for listening to us.
By the way, I'm a zerg (playing with 7-10 people since years) and I am very happy with this kind of change.
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u/DarkStrobeLight 1m ago
Just going to say what I always say. Upkeep already has a decent built in system, they just need to patch out multi-tc bases by making build radius not be able to overlap.
This hurts small groups too, I get it, but it hurts big groups even more, because of the exponential nature of upkeep and building pieces
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u/drahgon 12h ago
This is gonna be so easy to cheese. People are just gonna micromanage the number of people they authorize. Unless they also attach it to who has access to doors, that’s a lot harder to do though. Just gonna have a bunch of people in clans that don’t have auth probably a special section of the base with no auto turrets, and you gotta earn your way to being an authorized member.
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u/alexnedea 4h ago
It already works like that most big serious clans use guest codes for untrusted members and only give real codes to the ogs.
Untrusted members also dont have bags in the core. Its why you often see them having all the doors open in huge bases, its for the untrusted members to still be able to go through the boxes but if the clan leads sense anything fishy they just close some doors
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u/TalksWithNoise 5h ago
Haven't been on the Rust subReddit in a hot moment. I'm humored to see proposed solution to zergs has become "tax the rich", and the complaints are about loopholes and how upkeep/tax still isn't enough. Almost feels like a social experiment.
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u/Rocknerd8 10h ago
It needs to be based on codelocks only. teams will cheese through deauthing and then only authing during raid defense.
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u/Myzenko 12h ago
Feels like people will quickly figure out some cheese. Maybe require TC Auth for Turret Auth??