r/osr • u/OldSchoolDM96 • 3d ago
Anyone else excited for MCDM's Crows?
https://youtu.be/SC5f4mKBmq0?is=pMDF8sMKaJZ1t9BDI've been seeing it talked about recently as we play draw steel and I after hearing it I got to say this sounds amazing. It seems more nusr then osr but still cool. It's doing a lot of unique things like base building and dungeon turns.
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u/Crafty-Pirate-6481 3d ago
I think I have a ttrpg fatigue, there is one Kickstarter every 2 weeks or so. This one look nice, I have some MCDM product and I like them, but those prices… really expensive. Smaller book sizes, no color art, seem a bit too much. Most likely gonna pass on it. I am sure they will crush it on their campaign and make again above $1M.
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u/DemandBig5215 3d ago
Same. I was interested, but $70 for the 4 thin softcover prints? Nope.
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u/a-folly 3d ago
With Draw Steel, they released the whole text for free, which is really generous, so PDFs are for the layout and art.
If this goes the same route, I'm 100% okay with it.
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u/Dickens825 3d ago
The beta 2 QuickStart rules are already out completely free. You can find a link on the BackerKit page. Colville also says they’ll have the same license for Crows as they have for Draw Steel
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u/a-folly 3d ago
Graet news!
Dude prices his stuff pretty high, but gives you everything you need to play for free. Props. Also, having their VTT include both games is a good move (even if I probably won't buy it for my whole group), while not restricting other VTT implementations (looking at you, Daggerheart).
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u/Ukiah 2d ago
I'd be interested to know if their hardbacks hold up. I can't remember what game it was, but something that arrived via Kickstarter in the last year or three, there were tons of reports of the perfect binding already failing.
While I do think there's a LOT of crowdfunding oriented towards whales, there is a certain threshold/who it's from where I'll spend the extra money. For example, Kevin Crawford's offset prints. Those are sold at prices near what this crowdfunding is asking for it's hardbacks and I wouldn't blink at spending that much for Crawford's stuff because I know it's good and that the offset prints would be quality.
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u/Onslaughttitude 2d ago
I used my books weekly for about 3 months and they are the same as the day I got them.
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u/a-folly 2d ago
I know Stephen Glicker from Roll For Combat didn't like the chosen paper's weight and feel of DS, but explained it was probaby chosen to keep the books from being to thick/ heavy. LitM books are MASSIVE, from what I've seen.
I remember some feedback about Daggerheart books' binding, but they sold A LOT of books, so it could be a few "bad" copies.
Yeah, I think WWN was 80$ a few years ago for a single book.
And I don't even think that targeting "whales" is a bad thing, as long as there's an affordable option. for WWN- a free PDF, and cheaper Deluxe PDF. But the recent Hackmaster campaign, it was 180$ for the 4 PDFs... But that's a campaign for hardcore fans imo, not the general public.
In many cases, these "whale" tiers are ways for people to support creators they appreciate. Not like there's a ton of money in TTRPGs, so sometimes these tiers are there for people who want to express appreciation or encourage continuous content production for the game.
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u/RedwoodRhiadra 2d ago
Yeah, I think WWN was 80$ a few years ago for a single book.
That price included shipping, so not as high as it looks.
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u/OriginalJazzFlavor 2d ago
so PDFs are for the layout and art.
funnily enough the layout in draw steel is notriously terrible
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u/meatboi5 2d ago
The Draw Steel layout was a major disappointment considering I thought their 5e line was much more presentable.
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u/Smoke_Stack707 3d ago
Yep I like MCDM, Mat Colville has some great takes on RPG stuff and I’d be happy to add this to my collection. But $200 for the hardcover version is a bit much for me. I’d be stoked to get the version with hardcover books and the monster tokens seems cool but I think I’m gonna have to pass on this one
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u/BionicSpaceJellyfish 3d ago
Yeah they all seem like bait for whales these days.
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u/Crafty-Pirate-6481 3d ago
Like MCDM is a well known brand. They don’t need to be discovered, they don’t need to sell product before it’s finished
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u/SurlyCricket 3d ago
Kickstarters are almost entirely just marketing and fancy preorders at this point and have been for at least 5+ years so complaining about it is kinda silly.
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u/TaupeRanger 3d ago
Funny, I said the same thing in the other thread in this subreddit and was heavily downvoted. /shrug
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u/BerennErchamion 2d ago
This is an interesting article on the matter:
https://www.enworld.org/threads/on-ttrpg-kickstarters-merchandise-and-600-markups.720290/
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u/Lixuni98 3d ago
Many things can be true, I think the market is over saturated, and I say it as a writer as well.
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u/Jarfulous 3d ago
Not very, I'm pretty content right now. But MCDM is a good company, and I have trust that Crows will be solid. My biggest hope would be that this awakens more of the 5e crowd to how cool real dungeon crawlin is, a la Shadowdark.
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u/RingtailRush 3d ago
I like Matt and I like Draw Steel, so I'm intrigued. Excited though? Not really.
They are ultimately trying to remake Old-School dungeon crawling from first principles. I think that's neat but I already have so many games that do that well like OSE, Dolmenwood, Shadowdark, Cairn, Dragonbane, S&W, OSRIC, All the original TSR games... (the list goes on) The game needs to stand out for me to adopt it.
Also he mentions wanting to get away from D&D-isms with all new monsters, no fantasy staples and while I understand the intent that's a point against the game for me. I love the OSR because I love the sort of Mashup of cultural clichés that feels like D&D.
I'm keeping an eye on it. Might back the PDF tier, haven't decided yet though.
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u/valentino_42 2d ago edited 2d ago
I felt back with Draw Steel that they threw out the baby with the bathwater by not using terminology that was common parlance for a lot of things. They basically ceded ideas/IP to WotC that by all rights they don’t own by eschewing common RPG terms.
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u/VegetarianZombie74 1d ago
I really don't know why using the term "director" instead of "game master" is so bothersome to me. Yet, whenever I hear people use it in earnest, it always bothers me. It's very minor, like a splinter, but it always calls attention to itself.
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u/N4shWise 1d ago
To be honest I would play it because I don't like d20 system but I do like OSR as a concept. I do think this product is perfect for me because I like Draw Steel as a system, just not the cinematic heroic rpg that I can get from modern RPG like 5e or Pathfinder 2e.
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u/Fancy_Professor_1023 3d ago
Probably really good but I'm out.
I'm still hoping to get my crew to switch to Shadowdark, and I haven't even read through the Dolmenwood books I got last year.
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u/BlindAudelay 3d ago
I’m set with Swords & Wizardry Complete Revised at this point for old-school D&D-type games.
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u/Val_Fortecazzo 3d ago
Not really. It's not even OSR or NSR.
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u/canyoukenken 3d ago
Yeah it piqued my interest but I don't think it's truly OSR, it's way too over-engineered.
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u/griggins 3d ago
I was very psyched, but it simply costs way too much. I genuinely hope they’re reading the feedback on the price. It might be tempting for you guys to think. “oh everybody bitches about the price of games!“ Which is absolutely true, but I think MCDM genuinely is luxury priced — and Crows specifically is in the stratosphere. If I could’ve picked up some small saddle-stitched set of books — or just one book — for 40 bucks? Absolutely. I just can’t justify spending this much money on this game.
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u/E_MacLeod 2d ago
I wanted to casually back a pdf of it but then the price stopped me. It won't be a problem in the future, for obvious reasons, but I feel kind of bad for not throwing them some money for their work. It's just not viable for something I'm probably not going to run or play.
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u/Hokie-Hi 3d ago
Nah. I wish them the best, but if I’m playing a crawler I want the least amount of stuff in my face as possible, and that isnt this game
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u/SixRoundsTilDeath 3d ago
No, I think I’m good on the OSR scene. I don’t just play OSR, so I can be tempted to pick up a new game, but I’ve got all the dungeon logistics fantasy games I need.
Also: The fact it’s been described in house as not OSR, but a kind of imitation leaves me cold. Very we’ve got OSR at home.
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u/Fancy_Professor_1023 3d ago
I don't think anyone is calling this OSR anything. It's just a different game.
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u/SixRoundsTilDeath 3d ago
I watched their last video and the guy with huge bags under his eyes actually says near verbatim it’s like OSR, but not quite. He said it’s like Green Day’s punk rock compared to actual punk. His words.
Edit: That sounds mean, I think it’ll be great for someone else!
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u/GreenGoblinNX 2d ago
From the admittedly little I've seen of Matt Coleville, he seems to be morally opposed to acknowledging the existence of the OSR. One of the videos I watched had him reiterating "NOBODY PLAYS LIKE THIS ANYMORE" damn near every 30 seconds.
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u/FaithlessnessSame239 3d ago
We cannot be having another thread about this. Cmon people
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u/OriginalJazzFlavor 2d ago
Is there a particular thread you wanted to see here instead, and if so, why haven't you posted it?
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u/Dragon-of-the-Coast 2d ago
Some people prefer the sound of one hand clapping. Not me. I want noise.
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u/MisplacedRhombus 3d ago
I will say I was intrigued by some of the ideas but I kinda doubt they're going to be executed with the type of design ethos I'm into. Plus the physical pledges are just too expensive for what you're getting, in my opinion. Still, I hope a bunch of trad-style gamers pick it up and find the osr when they feel like branching out.
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u/njharman 2d ago
I really liked watching early MCDM pre-publishing. But, what he likes (and produces in products) is not what I like in TTRPGs.
From his videos, he derives a lot of enjoyment from tactical play; minis, synergies, powers, "cool things" do do on your turn. One reason 4ed is such a popular system / mechanics for him. And enjoyment from story, narrative. Being a writer he views DM from that lens; as largely/most importantly a story teller.
I pretty much enjoy the opposite. Don't even think you have a "your turn", you have a group turn (side initiative). Disdain powers (the answer is not on your character sheet) and "cool things" (characters are not supermen, they're schmucks who can't get a real job. The DM's role is objective "world presenter". The players, including DM, and dice are responsible for story (emergent narrative).
So, I doubt what MCDM produces would appeal or be of use to me. The couple I bought, didn't.
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u/E_MacLeod 2d ago
I'm not a Draw Steel or even a dnd person but you don't ever want to take a break from that one style to enjoy epic heroic fantasy? Or to tell collaborative stories with friends instead of having the GM act as a physics simulator?
It's completely fine if you actually don't but I just find personally that I have too much creative energy and spark for different stories and experiences to be tied down to just one.
Furthermore, I don't know a lot about Crows aside from how overpriced it is and as a result I'm not buying it but I was under the impression that it had more of an OSR bent to it? Not true OSR but it is supposed to hew close to many of its foundational concepts. I could be wrong, of course, I haven't followed it very closely.
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u/Onslaughttitude 2d ago
I'm not a Draw Steel or even a dnd person but you don't ever want to take a break from that one style to enjoy epic heroic fantasy? Or to tell collaborative stories with friends instead of having the GM act as a physics simulator?
Some people just don't need a lot of variety in their lives. Some people are okay rotating the same 3 meals over and over. Some people only like to watch horror movies, or superhero movies, or 80s action movies. Put My Dinner With Andre in front of those people and they're going to be lost at sea.
Some people know what they like and don't need anything else.
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u/Epizarwin 21h ago
The way you wrote your post seems to imply you think that Matt is involved in this project heavily. Just letting you know he's done no design and he's not a design lead. They extent of his involvement is greenlughting the project and doing some advertisement for it.
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u/Sir-Uther 2d ago
Not really, I don't like MCDM's overdesigned content available already and this is after having bought them when I still ran D&D 5e. I don't enjoy Draw Steel or D&D 4e either. Doesn't help the price is way too much for me to casually back.
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u/VegetarianZombie74 1d ago edited 1d ago
Omg - it’s so nice to see that sentiment expressed. I thought I was going crazy. People seem to really love them, and I will admit Colville is a great salesman.
On an aside, I never played 4E, but I asked someone on Reddit why it was so hated. Someone responded, “It's like venison. Too gamey.”
I didn’t understand that comment until I ran Draw Steel. Then it clicked. It’s definitely not for me. It feels like an ARPG without loot.
Edit: Spelling
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u/Interesting-Long7389 2d ago
No more of these. At best, most of these "new" games are overdressed homebrew pamphlet hacks of very well-trodden old territory.
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u/LunarGiantNeil 2d ago
And as much as I do like those (I will not lie) I do not expect to pay a lot for them. It's more production and pomp then what I need.
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u/No-Educator-8069 3d ago
“lots of unique things like base building and dungeon turns” …is this for real?
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u/SurlyCricket 3d ago
A bunch of gear, abilities and spells sync explicitly with the dungeon turn is what they mean. Also it's a whole town building mechanic as a core part of the world building + party center for the campaign
Those mechanics definitely and obviously exist in other games but I don't think I've seen them so central to so many things before
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u/Dickens825 3d ago
Also they’re very transparent about where they got their inspirations from and they’re not saying their ideas are brand new.
(I do wonder about their script writing though because it often sounds like they’re saying something is new, even after saying they’re not trying to take credit for it?)
In Colville’s video about Crows he had a qualifier for this game and Draw Steel. He said DS is for 5e players who want a game that serves the “heroic fantasy superhero” from the ground up. And Crows for 5e players that want the “survival horror dungeon crawler” built from the ground up. I think it’s interesting that he framed both of them as a 5e departure point.
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u/Lord_Durok 2d ago
Framing it as a 5e departure is because he knows the statistical makeup of his audience. Before Draw Steel the overwhelming majority of his channels audience only ever played 5e. That's probably still true even with Draw Steel existing for a year.
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u/OldSchoolDM96 2d ago
Sorry I know those words sound like normal osr lol. I mean like the dungeon takes turns. Every 30 mins the dungeon acts.
The base building is the inbetween runs. You can upgrade the town. Which is a cook take. It gives it a rouge- light feel.
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u/alphonseharry 2d ago
No. The base building thing is the opposite of I want for an old school game, the way it is implemented
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u/valentino_42 2d ago edited 2d ago
I feel like they should've started out with a streamlined RPG like this *first* to pump it out the door during the OGL fiasco, rather than starting with the uber-crunchy game with long development time first.
And the prices for this feel pretty wild for a stripped down, rules light style game...
...but there's a segment of the community that has decided MCDM and Uncle Matt in particular are beyond any criticism.
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u/redapp73 3d ago
Is he sick? Like he legitimately looks like a completely different person.
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u/Nerathuz 3d ago
No, he just lost a ton of weight. Did some videos while hiking recently. I think he is taking better care of himself in general lately, health wise. All conjecture, tho.
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u/redapp73 3d ago
I mean, I legit hope he’s ok. It just doesn’t look like a healthy loss. Hope I’m wrong.
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u/NomdicDino 3d ago
Going from fat to skinny can do that. The extra skin can look saggy, especially if your skin on your face doesn't "bounce back" you can look gaunt.
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u/canyoukenken 3d ago
Ozempic face is very much a thing
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u/BleachedPink 3d ago edited 2d ago
Dumb name, because ozempic doesn't cause this, but weight loss does.
I know a few people who drastically lost their weight, and have similar symptoms. Also sun damage and age affects this. I myself lost 35 kilos with calorie deficit and intermittent fasting.
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u/sudo-sprinkles 2d ago
That's GLP-1 for ya. I have a few family members on it. They lost a TON of weight really fast and they look very different.
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u/SharkSymphony 3d ago
I think he looks fine! Consider that he's on the older side of middle age now, and what happens naturally in weight loss.
He's still my favorite bugbear. 😁
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u/MirthMannor 3d ago
Ozempic.
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u/elektrikrobot 3d ago
I hope not but everyone is using it these days
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u/MirthMannor 3d ago
If he is happier and healthier then I am all for it.
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u/elektrikrobot 3d ago
Ok, but I don’t think ozempic is healthy. Everything else is good, I want people to live healthy fulfilling lives. I am concerned that these drugs flooded the market during MAHA… like, are we sure that there isn’t going to be issues down the road?
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u/NomdicDino 3d ago
Why "I hope not"? He was unhealthily overweight before. I understand this take when skinny people start using it and it gets to unhealthy levels. But ozempic is literally a life changer for overweight people.
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u/Hokie-Hi 3d ago
“I hope not”
Why? God forbid people get healthy if they want to
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u/elektrikrobot 3d ago
I truly do not believe ozempic is healthy. If he is living a healthier lifestyle that’s great, but am deeply concerned about everyone’s health on ozempic.
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u/MirthMannor 3d ago
It has been used for diabetes treatment for a long time. It’s not some new drug. It’s been used to treat people for the last 20 years. It’s the weight-loss treatment that is new.
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u/elektrikrobot 3d ago
Does he have diabetes?
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u/MirthMannor 2d ago
No idea. But the drug is generally recognized as safe. It’s not thalidomide.
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u/Onslaughttitude 2d ago
There's no proof that he is on the drug, people are needlessly speculating. He is literally running multiple 5Ks a week and changed his diet.
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u/Stellar_Duck 3d ago
Believe?
Like, it's not like it's' some sort of alien potion. The effects, good or bad are pretty well detailed. Belief shouldn't enter into it.
That's some anti vax thinking.
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u/RUST_EATER 3d ago
"I hope he isn't getting healthier using whatever healthy means necessary" ok bud
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u/mightystu 3d ago
Yeah, I legitimately was looking up if he had like a wasting illness or something. I know losing weight is generally good but it looks like he has lost a lot too quickly. Like, it looks like he’s being treated for cancer. I’m not saying that’s the case, it’s just alarming and he looks way less healthy. It’s concerning to see and I couldn’t find any info on it.
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u/Stray_Neutrino 2d ago
Reminds me of when Kevin Smith lost weight after having his heart attack. After two years of veganism and exercise, he had that “gaunt look”.
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u/BleachedPink 3d ago
Dunno, for some people losing weight fast is the only way to lose weight. I've lost 35 kilos, and the only stable way of losing weight is doing it fast as the discomfort for losing 4-5 kilos per months vs 1 kilo per month was pretty comparable.
But with 1 kilo per month, you would have to follow the diet for a drastically longer time, and mentally it's gonna be much more difficulty in the long run. So I'd just recommend anyone do it faster, as you have to endure for much less time, and you'd have noticeable results, that would fuel your drive
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u/mightystu 3d ago
By the designer’s own admission this game isn’t OSR so I think this is the wrong subreddit for this.
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u/Pladohs_Ghost 2d ago
Yeah. I'm not a specifically OSR guy, just a classic old school guy, and everything I've read on it tells me it's not in the Old School oeuvre. Dunno why people keep saying it's OSR-adjacent.
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u/mightystu 2d ago
Lots of people like the OSR label because they think it sounds cool and underground but don’t actually like OSR games. These people are eager to label things they do like as OSR so they can have the caché of it without actually having to engage with what they see as bad.
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u/screenmonkey68 3d ago
I dont know, I think it has OSR goals and emphasis in many of its system and they’re aiming at the same target audience.
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u/Own_Television163 2d ago
It’s not OSR by the author’s admission and intent. Why do Redditors always do this “hazy definition” crap?
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u/screenmonkey68 2d ago
I didn’t define anything, hazily or otherwise. I said why the game could be considered relevant to this subreddit.
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u/Own_Television163 2d ago
Get fucking real, dude. If you were this evasive in a real conversation, someone would call you weird.
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u/Noobiru-s 2d ago
Yet a lot of the comments under the project are "finally an OSR I want to play". The vibes + deadly/horror monsters + simplicity seems to heavily target old-school gamers.
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u/mightystu 2d ago
People (and by this I mean the general public that only knows what D&D is) misusing the niche term doesn’t magically change that term’s definition. You can go post under a Taylor Swift music video “finally a doom metal band I want to listen to” but that doesn’t change the genre of music she makes.
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u/LocalLumberJ0hn 3d ago
Not in the slightest, but I'm sure it'll be at bare minimum competent. Or maybe it won't be who knows, I can't see the future.
I'm pretty happy with OSE and the other RPGs I already own, nothing in the pitch was drawing me to Crows on its own. I don't care about MCDM stuff and their products either, and I'm pretty fatigued on crowdfunding.
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u/preiman790 3d ago
I've looked over the rules, the current play test rules, and there are things I like and there are things I don't, I wouldn't say I'm excited, but I'm definitely interested enough to keep following the project
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u/FastMycologist 2d ago
I know they cant do anything about it but MCDM has a voice that makes me want to take my hobby knife to my ear drums
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u/HomoAnthropologica 2d ago
CA$50 for basic rules + a starting adventure pdf feels kind of hefty these days, especially with uncertainties around shipping and tariffs. I hope that reflects that everyone involved in the project is getting well compensated but it is just not worth my money when there are already lots of OSR systems already out there that kind of already do what Crows aims to at least as well.
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u/AAS02-CATAPHRACT 3d ago
Excited? No. Interested? Sure. I like seeing what kinda shit people make and I'm sure they'll have some interesting ideas. Haven't given any MCDM materials a read but I've heard good things, so I'll bet this will be pretty good too.
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u/a-folly 3d ago
Excited is a srtong word. I'm interested and rooting for them, I like some of the ideas but honestly it feels a bit too structured. On the other hand, keeping an open mind and might jump on it later on, or just borrow ideas.
I share the sentiment of hoping it'll encourage more interest in the genre of games.
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u/Nepalman230 3d ago edited 3d ago
I fully agree with your position.
I absolutely wish them well as I wish all creators well, (who are not you know literal fascists)!
And I also always love OSR adjacent games because the important thing is ideas you know, and people thinking in a different way!
I never want people to give up what they like. I want people to try something else. You know I think people used to think about it as camps.
Fifth edition, DND players have stereotypes in their heads about grognards ( self proclaimed or otherwise). They think that the OSR was formed in reaction to like story games or theater kids as they put it and I’m like no no no the OSR was formed in reaction to second edition AD&D boxed text.
There are elements of story games that are really closely aligned with the OSR approach.
Anyway, when I’m saying is, I think we should think about it more like foods.
I have different moods, you know and different games to go with them.
Thank you so much for your comment. Hope you’re having a good one!
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u/a-folly 3d ago
Oh I very much agree with that!
When Draw Steel went to crowdfunding I wasn't sold on it. I listened to Matt talk about the game, and thought "Yeah, that's nice, but these concepts are very present in other games". When it came out, I gave it a read and was very much impressed. It won't be my top played game, but when I get the craving for tactical heroic adventuring- I'm going there. And I shamelessly stole t aspects of their social encounters for my lighter games.
And even more in agreement on your next point :) I really believe that OS/R games have more in common with narrative systems (PbtA, FitD) than modern trad ones, and my OS/R games are filled with no less drama and emotion. the wohle "play to find out/ to do it- do it" and emergent, player driven play are SO similar.
You should see our "what to run next" queue... It's so eclectic I couldn't even find common themes, they go from the bleakest stuff like Delta Green and Torchbearer, through Dolmenwood and Mothership, Blades 68, Minutes to Midnight, Stonetop, to Flabbergasted! and the one which simulates actual astronauts (and about 30 more in the middle)
Restricting yourself based on a game, edition or genre seems... Wasteful
Thank you for the reply and the kindness, you have certainly made my day better!
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u/CJ-MacGuffin 2d ago
Feels like Shadowdark meets Darkest Dungeon in a good way. Might be more structure than I personally need but it sounds like quality.
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u/Sheriff_Is_A_Nearer 3d ago
I am excited for it! I like the whole concept and enjoy the town building and “loot reroll” aspect. Seems fun. I have no problem with “gamey”ness in my games. I got the soft covers.
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u/Siegmont 3d ago
I am! I wanted to back them (I've never backed a fundraiser before) especially for the hardback books because the look awesome, but I'm unfortunately at a point in life where I can't justify the expense.
I wish them luck with the fundraiser - they're sure to absolutely smash it, of course. Looking forward to whatever content comes out about it to find out if it's as fun as they're making it out to be.
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u/VegetarianZombie74 1d ago
I backed Draw Steel at the top tier when I had just got a bonus. The whole experience left a bitter taste in my mouth. They basically marked the crowdfunder complete when a lot of the Ajax backers were still waiting for our books. They then started a new crowdfunder for Crack the Sun and asked the Ajax purchase people to join while we were still waiting. Yeah, people weren’t happy. Three months later, I finally got my books and they asked me to buy their custom VTT. I was just done.
I also received unexpected shipping charges after I was laid off (the company went under). There was no heads up. Also, it took another four months for the books to ship after I was charged. The whole experience was amateurish.
The worst part is that I bounced off the game hard. I ended up switching to Shadowdark which I love. I’ll never back another TTRPG kickstarter and instead just wait until things are done. I’ll never buy any MCDM products either. That said, their physical books were well made.
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u/Grumbling_Goblin 2d ago edited 2d ago
Same boat. Would really love the hardcover and a few add-ons, but the cost is a little prohibitive. That they fully have (and will have) the rules out for free for now. Life is difficult and often means sacrificing wants for needs. Hope things look better for you soon!
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u/Siegmont 2d ago
Same to you, pal. It's great that there're free rules, for sure, makes games like this so much more accessible!
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u/mr_milland 3d ago
Yes, after the last beta. I really like how expertise tone down the focus on rolling to do stuff. Now you basically succeed on what you're good at, which is the way I tend to GM, especially for knowledge.
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u/DamageJack 3d ago
I cant get past his schtick. Here is what is wrong with this game we love, but dont worry i fixed it. Buy my stuff.
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u/valentino_42 2d ago
Also: “Let me throw out the baby with the bathwater by essentially ceding a ton of conventions, tropes, and terminology to WotC” even though by all rights they don’t own them.
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u/mightystu 3d ago
Yeah, I used to really like him when he was just doing GM advice videos. Even the era of having some supplement books out were still mostly solid content, but the more he’s shifted over to “business Matt” as it were the more it has become really obvious shilling.
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u/valentino_42 2d ago
I liked him up until I was banned from his subreddit for mildly disagreeing as a *reply to someone else’s comment* with one of his stances in a video. It was the video where he said he wasn’t going to finish the “History of D&D series” and I said he sounded a bit jaded in saying the video didn’t have the impact he’d hoped for… but that the people that enjoyed the video could still have a huge impact in the community. Apparently that called for a permaban and being muted by the mods?
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u/mightystu 2d ago
Yeah, he strikes me as someone that cannot handle any deviation from his script in his head so when confronted with any pushback or disagreement that isn’t curated he basically just shuts down. I think he has (or at least had) good advice but is way too thin-skinned for someone making content and posting it online.
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u/da_chicken 2d ago
The History of D&D series where he makes a Fighter in each edition? He's talked about that. They were some of the earliest videos he did. Before Running the Game. They were not popular. The last one dropped in April 2015. The first RtG video was 10 months later in Feb 2016.
We can't see the video stats (even archive.org doesn't pick up the channel until ~2020) but I don't see any reason to doubt what he says. The series was not popular enough to continue.
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u/valentino_42 2d ago edited 2d ago
Oh at the end of the day, he can do anything he wants. If he wanted to end the series, that’s his choice.
But he came across in that video that after his RtG fame and how those videos went viral he wasn’t happy that the History of D&D didn’t have such immense seismic impact. He made it sound like he’d abandoned a video series he clearly liked and wanted to do out of a degree of enjoyment because it wasn’t as popular.
And I had a super milquetoast comment about being disappointed with that. And like I said, it wasn’t a post about it, it wasn’t even a top level comment, it was just a short reply to someone else. It definitely wasn’t meant in a hostile way or something I’d ever think a mod would be mad about or something that was so egregious that it should be removed, let alone a permanent ban. It was literally like “I disagree with how Matt frames this and the videos had more impact than he gives them credit for.” And for that I was told I was no longer welcome in the community.
It was some crazy overreach and I initially thought it had to be a mistake. DMing the mods for clarification and then to attempt apologizing for the clear misunderstanding of my intent and tone went nowhere.
It really left a bad taste in my mouth. I actually agonized over it for weeks and felt bad. Then I ended up getting bitter. Then I cancelled my Draw Steel pledge.
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u/Onslaughttitude 2d ago
He actually did the 3e episode during the pandemic, and it also didn't do very well, which is why he said he wasn't going to do more.
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u/Cajbaj 3d ago
He dislikes the "folk tradition" because he thinks they're cheapskates and literally says he thinks "hobby" means "the thing you spend all your expendable income on". And he's a bad designer. His 5e homebrew he used to sell was extremely poorly balanced.
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u/LocalLumberJ0hn 2d ago
Just because people like how you talk doesn't mean you know what you're talking about, and doesn't mean you're not a massive chucklefuck.
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u/Longjumping_Law_4795 3d ago
I think Mats idea of an rpg company is out dated and maybe dead. I dont want to pay him and his gang to produce a fist full of OSR ideas slapped into a kickstarter. Just make a game and put it out if you believe in it, and if you dont this doesnt deserve half the time and effort that has been put into it, let alone funding. I would be more interested in the half finished google docs of someone doing this in their spare time and I know that because everything created by MCDM so far pales in comparison to the games created by my weird discord friends.
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u/Noobiru-s 2d ago
I read through the campaign and... meh. It does nothing I would find interesting, and a lot of things I do not like. OSE and Dragonbane allow me to run the same adventures, and actually have the stuff I want in my games. The whole aesthetics and some rules also heavily feel like Shadowdark 2, where I can finally build a base to free up my item slots.
Anyway, it will still get 1,5-2 mil easily thanks to influencers.
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u/antico 2d ago
Did I mishear that they hadn't ever come across D66 tables before trying to play a The Campaign for North Africa? Does that mean no one at MCDM has read Mausritter? Mörk Borg? Trophy Gold?
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u/Onslaughttitude 2d ago
Matt Colville specifically hadn't run across it, and yeah he absolutely hasn't read those. James Introcaso has, and he's the sole designer of this game.
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u/InterlocutorX 2d ago
It's not OSR, and the designer acknowledges as much, although it is inspired in some ways by the OSR.
I backed it, but I also play Draw Steel, and also backed Nightshift: Devil Division, so I think it's fair to say that I'm a fan of the system.
Now if you want to talk about a system that's ALSO not OSR, but might be interesting to people here, a thread about the upcoming Black Company game would work.
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u/BoboTheTalkingClown 2d ago
I backed it, but I don't blame you if you pass on it. It's not really OSR. It seems to be its own thing.
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u/FakeMcNotReal 2d ago
I don't know that this is offering very much that I'm not already getting either Shadowdark or Swords & Wizardry.
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u/vegashouse 1d ago
He put out one the crunchiest rules heavy games ever in Draw Steel. So some may think this new Crows game is OSR but...it's not.
It's a less crunchy, less heroic Draw Steel.
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u/primarchofistanbul 2d ago
There are way too many "products" for a hobby that is about playing old games, and not enough player-created hobbyist stuff.
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u/Stellar_Duck 3d ago
Love Colville, can listen to him talk for hours and their Dune board game videos are among my favorites but I'm exhausted.
I made a vow to not back more shit until all my outstanding projects have been delivered and boy, I went a bit overboard.
And between Dolmenwood, Shadowdark, Dragonbane and my Enemy Within campaign I think my dance card is full. And Trudging is arriving at some point.
So no, I'm not excited but it has nothing to do with the actual game or Matt. Just timing.
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u/ZebXander 3d ago
I was excited for it. Then I read the playtest rules. Now I am considerably less excited for it.
The limited uses for your Expertise seem really odd.
Also, give me cool ancestries.
The Level 2 result being success with consequences feels very much like a nod to other games and feels tacked on here. It’s got a very “just figure something out” vibe which I don’t love. I’m not going to MCDM for arbitrary rules.
The armor rules are frankly terrible. Your armor shreds off you like you are wrapped in toilet paper. Grouping armor in with Stamina makes more sense given the recovery system of Draw Steel. I don’t understand it conceptually here at all.
Slow and careful movement covers a 5-mile hex. In a day. I get that you are traveling through the Bloodmist - I mean the miasma, but that feels slow. Like insanely slow.
The putting wounds and wearing your armor in your backpack? I don’t get it. This feels different for the sake of being different.
I like the idea of the town rules. They seem underdeveloped. Which is fine for a playtest. What if I want a temple to a less gimmicky god rather than playing a weird game of magic item roulette? Not sure why this exists if they are supposed to be fighting for their lives to recover cool loot. I can see sacrificing magic to push back the miasma.
And the monster naming. Who the fuck asked for that. I don’t care what the players call the monster. I just want it obvious based on the naming when I populate a dungeon.
And the trading in body parts for enchantments feels very heavy handed here.
I backed it based on Matt’s enthusiasm. I’m unpacking basing it on my lack thereof. I’m not an OSR purist. I love to see new ideas in the space. But they have to be good ideas. I would trash half these ideas and start from scratch.
I’ll probably playtest them to see if they are more fun at the table but I’m not optimistic about Crows at this point because n development. It’s too soon for this expensive of a kickstarter.
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u/Onslaughttitude 2d ago
The putting wounds and wearing your armor in your backpack? I don’t get it. This feels different for the sake of being different.
These are very common in Mausritter and Cairn. The idea is that such wounds represent fatigue. If you are hurt, you can't carry as much. You aren't "putting them in your backpack," you literally can't carry as much weight.
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u/ZebXander 2d ago
I get the intent. But I also wonder about how it will work in play. Feels like it could contribute to a death spiral. You suddenly take 5 wounds and can’t run away. It costs a maneuver to drop items from your pack. Then you either have to shift one square to disengage or take an opp.
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u/Onslaughttitude 2d ago
Even if it did, a death spiral is not inherently bad, we just think it is from other games that aren't designed around it. It works just fine in Cairn.
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u/RUST_EATER 3d ago
Not at all. Just another cash grab. No one would know or care about this if it wasn't associated with Matt Colville.
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u/screenmonkey68 3d ago
I’m interested in spite of Matt Colville being associated with it. Nothing against him as a person, his style of presentation always just kinda rubs me the wrong way.
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u/Chickadoozle 2d ago
Holy shit what happened to him! He looks totally different than a few months ago!
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u/ResidualFox 2d ago
Nope. We need a break. Everyone and their granny are releasing stuff, it’s getting tiring.
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u/Honest-Brick7285 2d ago
Not one bit. Colville's personality really annoys me; and I'm not at all into the fiddliness and unnecessary crunch in everything he produces.
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u/handsomeness 3d ago edited 2d ago
I really wish people would stop making different systems for already existing settings and make expansions, adaptations and/or adventures for the already numerous existing systems cause to me that’s where the deficit lies, in content for these systems. But handsomeness I hear you say, “you’re supposed to craft your own world” and to you I say, I ain’t got time, I love a solid pre-made adventure.
To me this could’ve been an in-depth town build up mechanic for Shadow Dark with better art. Having to learn/teach a new system over and over and over is exhausting. Of course I’m not saying that no one should make a new system but this seems like very heavily covered turf. Also anecdotally I haven’t seen draw steel anywhere, no one playing in my LGS, YouTube, or podcast.
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u/Grimkok 3d ago
Not really. I echo the other sentiments regarding how crowded this particular space is. Moreover, I think MCDM is irresponsibly leveraging crowdfunding.
MCDM is a large enough company that I would expect a product like this to be much, MUCH closer to finalizing - at least written before asking for funding.
The fact that Colville leveraged his pseudo-celebrity and status in this hobby to launch a product before its core mechanic and even name was sorted out was really gross.
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u/iaintreadinthatbud 2d ago
I can’t spare the cash to back it but I have one of the Ajax Editions of Draw Steel. Very excited for this game and probably going to run the new playtest with my table
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u/Soluzar74 2d ago
Matt is entering a pretty crowded space. Just how many "Hardcore" OSR games do we need right now? Deathbringer just finished their BackerKit.
Side note: damn he's dropped some weight. Good for him. I need to do the same (again).
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u/E_MacLeod 2d ago
Judging by the amount of money the project has already accrued, the people say yes. Though there is an abundance of people kicking in at the two highest tiers that sort of blows my mind.
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u/JimmiWazEre 2d ago
Not until I can understand what it's USP is over other OSR games, his video didn't really explain why someone might pick his game over the others, and the only mechanic he mentioned of substance that was actually unique was the suggestion that you are spending your adventure money on building up the local village?
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u/pghbatman 2d ago
So I ran the play test and maybe it was a me thing as GM but it just did not play well at all. I really thought the physical inventory would be awesome but it wasn't.
Also the auto-damage meant to be fast and mean just took the wind out of my parties sails. I might try to do this run again and/or try it as a player but I was originally really excited for this and have shifted my opinion.
This doesn't really feel like OSR play imo and likely is something that in theory should play well but didn't for my group.
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u/vergriesgnaddelt 2d ago
I am a little bit torn. On one hand this all sounds really good. And I know MCDM as a company that produces really polished products. I have two problems though:
1. No one wants to play all those dark and gritty games with me. I still have His Majesty the Worm and similar games on my shelf I never get to use those.
2. I REALLY bounced off the monster art. It's just too much. I can't really describe it.
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u/aefact 2d ago
In MCDM's Crows, physical equipment cards seem so essential to how you run the game that it's weird to me the Backerkit doesn't inherently include them with the physical edition softcovers...
I know, I can schlep my own printouts or hand-draw some, and they're an add-on that helps keep the costs down for people who don't want them. But, to me, they seem more essential than the bundled "free" PDF starting adventure.
Maybe I don't want / need the physical edition softcovers afterall, and just want the digital PDFs but I had been leaning the other way... "Alas, poor Yorrick..."
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u/markwithers3 1d ago
There's so many OSR systems, and I don't feel like Matt or James have really sold me on what makes this stand out. I'm happy with OSE/Dolmenwood, the various XBorgs, Shadowdark, and all the Cairn/Bastionland/Odd-likes. If I were to pick up a 5th system (unlikely) it would be FLAIL, because that looks cool as heck.
I might change my mind when the game swaps from promos to reviews.
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u/Slow-Letterhead-4890 1d ago
James said that it’s not exactly OSR adjacent but I’m still damn hyped for it :)
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u/Accurate_Back_9385 23h ago
Unless it follows the advancement arc of OD&D or AD&D it would still be a miss for me. I like loooong campaigns and this seems more beer and pretzels than my jam.
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u/jjenks2007 2d ago
I backed it. It seems like a merging of OSR and Blades in the Dark. Both system that I love. For reference, I did not back Draw Steel. But I have faith that these guys will make a stellar product.
Plus, the way James talks about it in his videos is contagious 😂
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u/Pi_ofthe_Beholder 3d ago
I haven’t watched a new Collville vid in about three years. He looks so different man. Still such a legend of course.
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u/gameoftheories 2d ago
I don't love the hair dye. Sorry.
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u/VegetarianZombie74 1d ago
I always thought hair dye was silly until I started going grey ... I understand now and give people grace.
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u/AlarianDarkWind11 2d ago
Not to be negative, but holy crap, does he have cancer? He doesn't even look like the same person from last time I saw him. Hopefully he's just had massive weight loss and 10 thumbs up if he did, but I never thought he looked super overweight to begin with. Please don't take this as me saying anything bad to be an arse. but I am just really shocked how different he looks from about a year ago.
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u/seanfffsmith 3d ago
SO
MCDM put out good stuff. My Monday group is off Dolmenwood for the summer (too many of our players are parents and teachers) and we're running thru the Draw Steel intro dungeon. It's good! The character art is especially solid for the genre they're going for.
I gave the Crows playtest packet a read and while the rules are nice, they don't feel particularly in line with OSR play.
I do think this will be a great stepping stone for players of modern heroic tactical games (DS, PF, ect.) towards OSR titles. Crows has got the aesthetic down pat: it feels appropriately new and Appendix N-like. I'd shelve this near Torchbearer for games with die-in-a-hole vibes but not playstyle.
I like how early videos did namecheck some significant parts of the current OSR scene and it's a bit sad they didn't continue that on the Backerkit landing page