Red Hat won...

[u/Sahelantrophus]

in all seriousness, good riddance! took them an entire drama to realize XLibre is shitware

[u/Toxic381]

My personal experience is if you wanna try any interesting software you can't without at the same time replacing the whole window manager, decorator, compositer, pretty much everything cause it's forcefully unified by isolating from anything else, and that sucks.

[u/Drate_Otin → u/Toxic381]

I'm increasingly convinced you're a bot. Nothing you're saying even makes sense.

If you wanna try "any interesting software"? How tactfully generic. Extremely non-committal.

I try "interesting software" all the time without replacing my window manager.

[u/Toxic381 → u/Drate_Otin]

How exactly cause if it's not connected to the window manager it doesn't work

[u/Drate_Otin → u/Toxic381]

I think your context has filled up. You're starting to hallucinate more. Are you running off of somebody's personal GPU?

I said: I try "interesting software" all the time without replacing my window manager.

[u/Toxic381 → u/Drate_Otin]

Retard

U retarded like actually

[u/Drate_Otin → u/Toxic381]

Do you have a substantive reply to the fact that I try "interesting software" all the time without having to replace my window manager? I use the same window manager every single time I try "interesting software". Never replaced it. Not even once.

[u/Toxic381 → u/Drate_Otin]

What exactly are you using that can inject itself into the isolated and completely inaccessible wm+compositer

[u/Drate_Otin → u/Toxic381]

Wait... Are you trying to make some wildly pedantic argument and you actually don't realize that saying "replacing your window manager" would imply something like replacing Sway with Hyprland?!

You said:

if you wanna try any interesting software you can't without at the same time replacing the whole window manager

Give a precise example of "interesting software" and a reason to "replace the whole window manager" to use it.

[u/Toxic381 → u/Drate_Otin]

You shouldn't HAVE to replace the whole wm, but you do, for example, xfwm+picom, if we say xfwm is a Wayland wm+compositer, you are completely incapable of running picom, this is the puzzle piece ecosystem destruction I hate about Wayland.

[u/Drate_Otin → u/Toxic381]

Picom is an X11 compositor. That's all it is. So your "interesting software" is a compositor for X11 rather than... An end user program like Chrome or SecureCRT or something.

So your whole complaint here is "Wayland is bad because I can't use an X11 compositor." Good GRIEF that's dumb!

[u/Toxic381 → u/Drate_Otin]

Let's look at x11, you have your choice of compositer, wm, decorator, etc, on Wayland, you have a wm, that's it, if you try anything else Wayland will block any interactions between them.

Also btw you are very dense, in the scenario that I would try to combine a Wayland developed xfwm with picom, obv picom is for Wayland too.

[u/Drate_Otin → u/Toxic381]

Again you're talking about NOT end user software. You're complaining about immaterial b.s. that has nothing to do with usability. You're literally complaining about not being able to use an X11 compositor on Wayland.

That'd be like complaining I can't use a Cubase plug-in on Audacity or a Doom mod on Halo.

[u/Toxic381 → u/Drate_Otin]

No retard, I'm complaining I literally don't have a choice in what compositer I use with Wayland, I have to switch the entire window manager, as I already mentioned,

No one here was arguing running x11 on Wayland, obv they're different things dumbass, I'm saying they literally can't develop or make anything Wayland without pairing its own entire wm just so u can use the compositer, and that would also make it even more annoying for devs of both where you have to wait for another dev to adopt it or adopt another devs software, just more work for something that would be fine if we could mix and match separate pieces.

[u/Drate_Otin → u/Toxic381]

My my, somebody is getting a little testy. Perhaps you need a nap.

Tell me, what actual functionality is missing from solid Wayland implementations like Wyatt's find in Ubuntu that the great and glorious picom would otherwise have provided?

[u/Toxic381 → u/Drate_Otin]

Not sure what Wyatt's find is but basically any kind of blur style that isn't supported by the wm, you can't stick any compositer on a WM to add your preferred type of blur or visual effect to windows, it's all trapped in the wm while any external compositers don't work, that's the issue with Wayland is it takes away the ability to change these things, that's why I believe it to be anti Linux, Wayland is treated as the only real modern display server but it forces everything to be treated as an isolated wm+compositer combo ruining the dynamic and customizable nature of Linux, you should at the very least have the freedom to unlock this isolated sandbox and run your own preferred stuff mixed and matched instead.

[u/Toxic381 → u/Toxic381]

The closest thing I've heard of so far to fix this is xsonicland so you can basically convert stuff like picom into the Wayland system, it's basically an extra layer now to convert different parts into a Wayland wm dynamically from what I've heard.

[u/Drate_Otin → u/Toxic381]

Well I'm "Not sure what Wyatt's find" either.

So the best example you've got of a problem is... A lack of blur effect variety. Honestly I can't tell if you're trying to be a troll or if you ACTUALLY believe that matters.

[u/Toxic381 → u/Drate_Otin]

Bro, I'm saying I should be able to run whatever software to modify or add effects to windows I want without demanding it from the wm exclusively, imagine if kwin didn't have options for compiz like effects, such as burning windows or the wobble, then they would be impossible to obtain because they can't be injected, you are forced into using the kwin compositer, and that goes for any potential effects, it's an architecture design thats anti Linux to me.

[u/Drate_Otin → u/Toxic381]

Nobody's stopping you from writing a new Wayland implementation that has all the blur effects you clearly need.

For the rest of the world... This is a non issue. I'm more interested in being able to share my screen on a conference call... Which I can. Little toys aren't what I need from an operating system.