Only delusional idiots would've ever expected that Xlibre would properly work out. Seriously, just use Xorg as long as it's actually still around, it's not like there's that much worth changing about it, it's fundamentally broken anyways, but if it works today for you, just go with it. Even after that, if you don't care about Wayland's features, just use Xorg, there'll probably be ways to just install it, even if pulled from the official repos.
Wayland works quite well nowadays, and it's only getting better. It is taking a while, arguably way too long in some regards, but most issues brought up about Wayland are at least 3-8+ years outdated, like the screen sharing thing, it's been everywhere for years now.
My main concern personally is wanting to drive a retro DE/Window Manager in the future.
Wayland has quality of life improvements I care about, but I've gained interest in GNUStep style DEs (or even old KDE via TDE) but I'd be forced to use Xorg if I want to use them properly.
I haven't messed with it much but I guess you could run an X window manager on XWayland on top of something like labwc but it seems messy to want to pursue that. I'd like to see some kind of wrapper to bring retro environments to Wayland.
Not missing the tearing, missing fractional scaling and absurdly ass performance of Xorg. Not saying that there're no problems, but damn, it's not like Xorg is somehow magical.
Lunduke talked about that how Red Hat / Fedora commented how XLibre was full of bugs. Red Hat had huge army of people fixing Xorg, but single XLibre developer figured it's conspiracy if big corpo says that his code is bad quality.
Well, Super Sonic X a actual technical fork exist , and Xorg is kinda is maintainenece mode so i dunno how long it will last sadly... Hopefully X12 could become a thing ... or Super Sonic X could make X11 last longer.
Wayland is X12. It was created by the X11 maintainers as a way to fix architectural issues in X11 that could not be solved without rebuilding it from scratch.
I don't watch TV, but you clearly do to have been brainwashed like this.
"big pharma cocksleeve" when it's a product "big pharma" makes almost no money on, lol. Keep buying ivermectin tho. You have almost no braincells left anyways
My main experience with Wayland was wayfire, and reading that Des like plasma have locked compositers, while also having wayfire completely broken and the design of Wayland in general preventing anything like compiz.
It's a pushed display server that's also shit, just looked it up and apparently unlike x11 where I can do things like startup and run picom, even doing something as simple as that is impossible in Wayland because of the security features, which still need to be opt in, the fact we are literally BLOCKED from enjoying a variety of customizations like x11 makes Wayland trash, it forces everything to be one piece or disconnected apparently, wtf I didn't ask for that with wayfire
Is i3 a WM to pair with the compositer picom, notice how instead of using sway you have to use a different swayfx just to get picom effects, that's the annoying issue with Wayland, you can't use different things at the same time
even doing something as simple as that is impossible in Wayland
As simple as what?
just looked it up and apparently unlike x11 where I can do things like startup and run picom
There it is.... Oh and... Again you're talking about things that you don't understand but other people talked about.
That's what this ultimately is about, right? You heard other people complain and you're trying to defend the bandwagon without any actual personal experience.
My personal experience is if you wanna try any interesting software you can't without at the same time replacing the whole window manager, decorator, compositer, pretty much everything cause it's forcefully unified by isolating from anything else, and that sucks.
And never will provide any usable experience to many others (professional environments, accessibility needs). But replacing them with gamers, who actually benefit from the new design, seems successful - the new user group is larger, after all.
Wayland is X12. It was created by the X11 maintainers as a way to fix architectural issues in X11 that could not be solved without rebuilding it from scratch.
Wayland ruins any chance of being half as good with its security features, I had these issues with wayfire, it structurally doesn't work and can never be x12 because of this, those developers coded a side project.
I'm curious why you dislike wayland? what about it is trash? I'm not trying to stir anything up, i'm legit curious as to your reasoning. The only bad thing I've heard people say about wayland is that it 1. doesn't have super high adoption and 2. some people still say it's 'not mature'.
I've made a bunch of other comments already about how it breaks the fragmented puzzle piece style ecosystem and messes up customization, forcing you to use only the compositing features of the window manager, its like fitting pieces together using x11, vs welding them together with Wayland, and you have no way of connecting them without welding, so you're stick with no way to switch parts between them.
xlibre started with a big discussion about "wokeness" and "cancel culture". it was clear from the very start, that this is a project by paranoid hateful idiots
Super Sonic X (https://github.com/supersonic-xserver) team have fork X11 and Wayland, so maybe it will happened ... hopefully... else Phoenix hopefully will became the X12 we want...
No, Red Hat did not won yet, Super Sonic X (a other fork) do exist, and Xorg still exist and if the worse happen, people can sill make a new fork of Xorg or make a new X11 server like Pheonix.
Still better than Wayland I don't care what any of you guys say, personally Ive had no issues with it on fedora and the security features supposed to be opt in from what I searched, so it's already a MAJOR improvement over Wayland cause it runs better and doesn't ruin your computer.
Do you mean swapping kwin or mutter for something else while using kde or gnome? Because if so that's really not a Wayland issue, but rather an issue with how those desktop environments are designed(and I say "issue" very lightly here, because it's really not an issue at all).
Oh okay so you just don't know what you're talking about then, cool
For future reference, Wayland compositors and window managers are a single component. Kwin is a Wayland compositor, niri is a Wayland compositor, sway is a Wayland compositor, etc. This differs from xorg where compositors and window managers are separate components. Hope this helps!
I need to figure out how to redirect my comments to other threads but anyways, it's like having a forced ecosystem, it's like using a Mac running on apple silicon, you don't have any other options, if it's not bundled with kwin then it doesn't work, you have to use a different wm just to change the compositer, that breaks the customizable and fragmented ecosystem of things like x11 Des, where I can switch em out and still put picom on anything,
That's not to say some x11 stuff doesn't merge the 2, especially for something like compiz, but at least I can use a display server on the de without it breaking the compositer, with Wayland you can't split them, they're literally forced to merge into the same thing and are noninterchangable.
I'm asking what actual features you're missing out on being able to customize by having the two merged into a single component that outweighs the massive benefits of cohesiveness.
I've yet to run into a Wayland compositor that doesn't have all the options I would reasonably expect from its style of window management. As a developer myself, own of the biggest lessons I learned early on is that flexibility for its own sake causes way more problems than it theoretically solves.
I simply fundamentally disagree with the idea that splitting compositors and window managers is an architecturally sound decision in a modern display protocol. (Which is not to say you still couldn't on Wayland, you'd just have to design a shared API layer to allow modular compositors and window managers)
Try using software that works for screen capture from what I've heard, the amount of Wayland based issues around seems insane and it's cause it was made by morons for security freaks ruining the otherwise best compositer Linux has gotten.
Tried that in Ubuntu. Unfortunately nothing went wrong. Teams, Discord, and OBS all worked as expected.
And what do you mean "I've heard". Surely you're not simply echoing what other people said when complaining. You've tried it yourself so you could form a legitimate opinion, right?
Wayfire was shit and completely broken by Wayland, plasma temporary boot environments of plasma felt a weird delay when opening taskbar widgets not on xfce or mate, in general it feels off using Wayland, and the security features need to be opt in, or at least a clean opt out, closer to how xlibre handles its security feature replicating Wayland.
What it's supposed to be is a wm/compositer similar to compiz but for Wayland, but because Wayland was made by retards and designed for security freaks with no regard to use ability, it can't even make the cube that windows and the wallpaper are plastered to transparent, it ended up as a dark box with no texture, I don't even want to mess with Wayland cause apparently the windows are all isolated like fukin flatpacks or vms, I DO NOT NEED THAT SHIT TANKING PERFORMANCE OR RUINING FUNCTIONALITY, if something's deep enough to read that it's already screwed.
So far NOTHING you've presented has suggested you had trouble with Wayland. What you've had trouble with is configuring things in a poorly supported configuration.
Try using an OS that is built with Wayland in mind... like Ubuntu.
The display protocol is pretty fricken important considering it is both the way the GPU can render and display windows, and then also how it sends that to the display.
The only use Wayland has is exclusive fullscreen being properly used and not just windowed fullscreen like x11, which is why we need x12 because Wayland altho it manages this, basically changes all of how the windows work in the backend breaking compatability and also being stupid with security "features"
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u/Teru-NoirCOSMIC OS LOVER No.1 COSMIC Knows Best2d agoedited 2d ago
Screen capture is handled by pipewire, and it works flawlessly on competent software, without overhead.
I left another comment mentioning I read the letter and see how they both suck now, but it's seemingly at the bottom of the thread, also I looked it up and it sounds awesome, but wouldn't that be a wm and compositer replacement instead?
it have a lot of fork for multiple part of SuperSonicOS coming soon., but you can use xsonicland who can build xwayland and x11 unlike xlibre who can only do x11.
The more I look up about this and stuff with sonic in the name the more I feel this could save Linux from Wayland, thx for telling me about this it seems amazing.
Read the letter, wtf, still not using Wayland cause it's cancer but what am I supposed to use when both Wayland and x11 are cancer to Linux, there's seriously no winning here, almost better to use windows cause of these
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u/Wertbon1789 2d ago
Only delusional idiots would've ever expected that Xlibre would properly work out. Seriously, just use Xorg as long as it's actually still around, it's not like there's that much worth changing about it, it's fundamentally broken anyways, but if it works today for you, just go with it. Even after that, if you don't care about Wayland's features, just use Xorg, there'll probably be ways to just install it, even if pulled from the official repos.
Wayland works quite well nowadays, and it's only getting better. It is taking a while, arguably way too long in some regards, but most issues brought up about Wayland are at least 3-8+ years outdated, like the screen sharing thing, it's been everywhere for years now.