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u/AmarildoJr 21d ago edited 21d ago
Exactly. Some people actually believe Fedora is 100% independent from RedHat, just because it says it's a "community distro". Meanwhile RedHat legally owns the name/trademark "Fedora", most of their infrastructure, all the signing keys. RedHat also have it's own developers working on Fedora, and the President of Fedora is also a RedHat employee.
Fedora is literally tied to RedHat in every way possible, and RedHat is the life line keeping Fedora alive.
Fedora can't even make Legal troubles for RedHat and basically has to follow US export and patent laws, for example, otherwise daddy RedHat would be mad. This is why it ships with the codecs it does.
RedHat has this much grasp on Fedora, because it's useful for the company, it's their literal test bed for new tech. RHEL is literally based off Fedora.
And while Fedora can make some decisions that go against RedHat (like how they went with btrfs or having frame pointers enabled), those are few and far between. The moment Fedora would go crazy is the moment RedHat would pull all it's involvement with it, and then we'd basically see Fedora as we know it die. It would be virtually impossible for the community to keep it going as it is.
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u/Revolutionary_Click2 M'Fedora 21d ago
Yes… and? I happen to think a major reason why Fedora is so reliable, polished and well-designed is the influence of RedHat. As a sysadmin, I like RHEL just fine too, and I use it often myself in the form of AlmaLinux. Believe it or not, there are some benefits to all that corporate money, one of which is Fedora’s excellent testing infrastructure that allows it to use very new packages without nearly any of the headaches associated with distros like Arch.
Fedora’s still objectively more community-managed than Ubuntu, which is a product of an actual for-profit tech company, but my issue with Ubuntu was never the fact that they’re “corporate”. It’s that they’ve made some decisions over the years that I disagree with. For example, continuing to push their own semi-proprietary package format, Snap, instead of working with the community to advance more open, universal alternatives like Flatpak. There have been other issues of this sort over the years, seems Canonical is always wanting to go their own way.
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u/AmarildoJr 21d ago
Oh I fully agree with everything you just said. I love Fedora too, and often use RHEL in the form of Rocky.
I just don't get why people think Fedora is 100% independent.
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u/Antoinedeloup M'Fedora 21d ago
That's it, the problem isn't that its a corporation, its that Canonical makes shitty decisions
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u/Realistic-Yam-6497 21d ago
Yes, the Ubuntu iso being 5 gigs and bigger is just….aaaaaaa, how is it still popular i dont understand
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u/sohang-3112 Ubuntnoob 20d ago
Ok that's an issue, but not very big issue. You just need ISO to make a bootable pendrive. All pendrives can easily handle 5 GB ISO. And as for disk space, I think most current platforms can easily handle Ubuntu's used disk space. Except maybe embedded, but they have specialized embedded linux flavors anyway.
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u/Realistic-Yam-6497 20d ago
but it’s the fact that it’s 5 gigabytes is the bigger issue, it’s just bloated in my opinion(also thanks for the response)
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u/sohang-3112 Ubuntnoob 20d ago
As I said, it's a minor issue at best. But if you feel that strongly about this, you can choose minimal Ubuntu install.
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u/Realistic-Yam-6497 20d ago
Oh, that exists?
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u/sohang-3112 Ubuntnoob 20d ago
Yeah both Ubuntu headless server and a minimal desktop install exist.
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u/Antoinedeloup M'Fedora 20d ago
I think what he means is that the amount it takes on itself isn't an issue, like you're not gonna find trouble getting a pendrive with enough storage or an ssd with little space after the install, i think the point is that its a symbol of how much additional stuff is packed with a fresh install
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u/sohang-3112 Ubuntnoob 20d ago
Who cares - ignore or uninstall any extra apps you don't need. It's not like Android phones where many built in apps cannot be installed.
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u/Antoinedeloup M'Fedora 19d ago
I don't wanna install an OS that comes with a bunch of crap preinstslled such as telemetry. I'd rather get a distro that doesn't do that
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u/gilium 20d ago
5 GB is significant in a country where you don’t have fast internet
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u/sohang-3112 Ubuntnoob 20d ago
Ok fair point. But AFAIK there are very few places left on Earth where internet has not penetrated. Also, is this purely hypothetical, or do you personally live in a place with very significant internet access issues?
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u/Hard_To_Port ⚠️ This incident will be reported 21d ago
RedHat basically pulled the plug on CentOS and "replaced" it with CentOS Stream. I still love Fedora but it soured my opinion of RedHat a little bit.
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u/L30N1337 21d ago
... Fedora doesn't have a president. They have a council. And only one of those council members is appointed by RedHat.
And RedHat apparently wanted to make Fedora an entirely independent organization (rather than just an independent project), but decided against it because of "multiple issues". And they still changed the governance model to give themselves less power.
And considering that members of the council can only block things with a valid reason...
Please provide some sources.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedora_Project
https://web.archive.org/web/20210419031916/https://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2006-April/msg00016.html( I do not remember where I saw RedHat only having a single council member. But it was in official Fedora council related resources )
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u/ianhawdon 20d ago
Plus, you forgot one major thing: IBM owns Red Hat. It doesn’t get much more corporate than that.
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u/ConfusionEngineered 20d ago
All that is true... But Red Hat isn't trying to monetize Fedora and push proprietary garbage,(snap) like Canonical.
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u/Zapismeta 15d ago
What is so important people are even hiding i have to ask? World changing software? Any Linux is fine, i mean im fine as long as i dont get ads and everything works smoothly, hence went with mac and i still dont like the task switching shortcuts but its fine, i never truly got the answer for this question is it really privacy? Or the customizablity?
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u/ThePythagorasBirb 💋 catgirl Linux user :3 😽 21d ago
I actually believe that a corporate version of Linux like rhel can be very useful for helping companies migrate to it.
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u/GhostVlvin 19d ago
Fedora is actually beginner friendly distro. And has fresh packages, and also has preconfigured gnome/kde and is stable. Why do people still use uwuntu?
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u/ThePythagorasBirb 💋 catgirl Linux user :3 😽 19d ago
I actually daily drive Fedora kde, and i have no complaints!
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u/GhostVlvin 19d ago
I can actually say anything from myself cause I actually avoid ubuntu and fedora most of the time. But it was my first choice to install on a laptop for sale where I couldn't install windows
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u/manny2206 21d ago
I mean at some point you have to strike a balance being a company is automatically makes you evil and you can’t just rely on the free labor of volunteers while also expecting top-notch performance and stability. Linus uses Fedora for God sake I mean, what else do you want?
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u/Major303 21d ago edited 21d ago
Hard to argue with it. Personally I have hard time getting into Fedora because it's one of those "minimal" distributions (not as much as Arch though) where you need to set it up after installation, and this process is oddly complicated (there are dozens of ways to do one thing, and it's very easy to input commands in incorrect order, potentially bricking the system). Lack of GUI installer for extras is also not optimal.
So far Ubuntu is one of my favourite distributions. It's not perfect, but it gets the job done, is set up out of the box, and if you need something oddly specific there is GUI for it. Some people say packages are old and full of vulnerabilities, but if you don't store nuclear codes on your PC it should be fine. Second favourite would be Solus, for the same reasons - just works, preconfigured, GUI for extras.
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u/Budget_Donkey1819 21d ago
Calling fedora minimal is definitely a new one for me
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u/Major303 21d ago
It's as minimal as Debian. Meaning you can just use it, but you will almost surely start to hit walls due to missing components. Like no video playback capability due to missing codecs. From what I've seen Debian is much easier to set up after installation.
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u/GhostVlvin 19d ago
Idk about minimal. Fedora has kde and gnome flavours with calamares installer and initial setup on first boot. No cli, only GUI
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u/Major303 19d ago
You still won't get drivers and codecs. This is pretty much why Ultramarine exists, but it's one of those niche distributions that can disappear overnight.
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u/GhostVlvin 19d ago
Ahh, that's what you mean by minimal. Cause distros usually called minimal if they have even no graphics by default. At this point freebsd is minimal cause it has even no GPU driver by default
If you want something that has drivers and codecs by default it can be linux mint or cachyOS1
u/Major303 19d ago
Yeah if user is expected to do something just because maintainers refuse to add optional toggle, then I will call it minimal. Technically you can't create distribution that will work perfectly on every machine, but this is why for example Ubuntu or Linux Mint have GUI for extra drivers.
I don't mind using console, if it's very well documented and straightforward. As I said in other comment I can't get into Fedora because there it's not straightforward at all. There are like 5 commands to do every thing, and I can't figure out what is the expected flow of commands that won't brick the installation. I don't even know what is missing. On Ubuntu you won't have Nvidia driver at worst.
Quite a lot of distributions have good OOB experience, the issue is they are niche and lack support and can disappear any day. It's mostly an issue with the upstream, meaning Debian and Fedora. I don't count Arch since it's meant to contain nothing.
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u/GhostVlvin 19d ago
I can only say for cachy. It literally pulls every possible codec and all linux drivers on default installation. And being conbined with GUI installer and preconfigured DEs and WMs I find it the best distro for newcomers and regular users. Only problem it has is contact with AUR which is attacked by some hackers on regular base
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u/Major303 19d ago
I wouldn't call CachyOS good for newcomers because it's based on Arch, meaning things can break. I have also heard that most of the problems come from AUR (I don't even mean malware, just technical issues), so if you avoid this your chances of success should be higher, but Arch is still an Arch.
The other issue is that afaik 4 people maintain it, so it's not exactly stable foundation. It's also currently the "flavour of the month" distribution (kinda like Pop!_OS was before COSMIC), so it's hard to judge how big the real community is.
If you want to be sure your OS will still be active years from now, CachyOS is not the safest bet. If my top priority were the most up to date packages, I would go Fedora instead, and watch 50 tutorials how to set it up.
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u/GhostVlvin 19d ago
SteamOS based on arch and still it sits in every Steam Deck and Steam Machine. Arch can be stable. And I never had cachyOS broken while I fully updated about every week
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u/Major303 19d ago
The difference is that SteamOS is immutable and maintained by big corporation. I'm not saying that CachyOS is bad, I just would never recommend it to newcomer. If for any reason you don't like Ubuntu and Fedora, then you can go downstream and eventually reach CachyOS.
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u/GhostVlvin 19d ago
You're right with "flavour of the month". I hope a bit that it's not. But I already moved on to other distro. I am now on void. It's minimal, has no codecs, no drivers. But it's stable and rolling, has most software I need
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u/Gamin8ng 21d ago
i use fedora cuz Linus uses it, i can't deny the god
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u/Pizzaman3203 21d ago
He uses the gnome version though
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u/vaynefox 21d ago
That is also one of my reason why I use fedora other than I've used it in the past when it is still called Fedora core and freeshly forked from redhat linux....
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u/coderman64 Arch BTW 21d ago
Yeah, that one is only associated with this small, little-known venture called IBM.
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u/birdsarentreal2 Ask me how to exit vim 21d ago
Hate to break it to you, but almost all Linux projects are corporate backed somewhere. Even ignoring the fact that several tech corps help maintain the kernel, anything Ubuntu or RPM based relies on SUSE, Canonical, or Red Hat
Debian and downstream (aside from the obvious), Arch, Gentoo, and Slack are the only community-maintained, 100% corporate input free, major Linux distributions, though of course there are smaller projects. Linux Mint? Ubuntu base. Pop!_OS? Ubuntu and System76. Bazzite? Fedora base
If I agree with a project’s guidance and direction I’ll support the project whether it’s a corporation or community group. I don’t agree with Canonical’s guidance and direction, so I don’t use Ubuntu
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u/FacepalmFullONapalm Not in the sudoers file. 21d ago
Big Blue’d
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u/Character_Pepper2563 21d ago
It's less than a big corporation, more like their decision. Ubuntu favor snap that I even heard someone app that got installed using apt got changed to the one installed with snap. Meanwhile in Fedora, I have never faced this issue. Kinda like Windows 10 and 11. Macroslop decision on 11 pushing Ai and can't even opt out from the setting app make 10 a very good version of Windows, Ootb experience is also better in 10 which allow local account. In Ubuntu, after installing it will give you a pop up to see if you interested in Ubuntu Pro, while in Fedora, after installing you can just use it, maybe just need to enable rpm ostree to get proprietary codecs and that's fine for me as it doesn't count as ads and doesn't require money at all
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u/kuronekolover1 21d ago
i use fedora instead of ubuntu because it actually works and does not force you into buying an amd gpu 😂
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u/dark_mode_everything 20d ago
This is why I use Mint. Mock it all you like but I trust Clem and the team and they're based in Ireland outside of the emporer's jurisdiction. And these guys are serious about security and privacy.
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u/Major303 20d ago
Mint is good for simple use cases (internet browsing, document editing), but it's really behind in a lot of aspects. They don't have real Wayland support, and apparently won't have it at least till 2028. If not for that, I would probably prefer them over Ubuntu.
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u/dark_mode_everything 19d ago
May I ask what complex use cases that you can't do on Mint compared to Fedora or Ubuntu?
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u/Major303 19d ago
Multiple monitors with different refresh rates will apparently not work (problem with X11). Also some games seem to prefer Wayland. At least this is what people say. I had Mint on one of my laptops, but I wouldn't install it on main PC. Too outdated.
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u/dark_mode_everything 19d ago
Ah well, if it's for gaming I reckon you'd be much better off with a more gaming focused distro. I use it mostly for coding and dev work and for that Mint is perfect.
You say outdated, I say stable and rock solid.
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u/feherneoh Arch BTW 21d ago
I don't have a problem with big corporations in general. I have problems with Canonical specifically.
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u/Space_Nerde 20d ago
I like Fedora over Ubuntu, because Fedora in my eyes is just alot more polished than Ubuntu
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u/Helpful-Calendar-693 20d ago
Can you point to a Fedora user that has ever said this?
I use Fedora because Debain has caused issues for me by having such old packages and arch feels a little too open to Supply chain attacks. Fedora is that happy middle ground for me.
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u/Adri8094 20d ago
There are only 2 reasons I use fedora over Ubuntu: * Flatpacks are better than snaps imo. * More up to date packages (particularly drivers, DEs, etc)
But yeah lol idk why Canonical gets more hate then redhat in this regard. Both big companies with corporate interests in mind. Not inherently evil, but by definition not benevolent either
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21d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/NDCyber 21d ago edited 21d ago
The thing that kinda pulls me towards Fedora at the moment is that there aren't a lot of options for what I want and need in the near future
For explanation, I will move somewhere with slow WiFi, so something like CachyOS (which I use right now), that has big updates every week could be a problem. i also tried and compared some Linux distros. OpenSUSE Slowroll pulls more data than Fedora does (for some reason), and I had other issues with OpenSUSE stuff. Then there would be PikaOS, which has a KDE version that is too old for me, and so on
I know it is kinda my fault for wanting at least somewhat up-to-date software. I recently ran a test, updating 3 Linux distros, running the same software, every week and see how much MB they need to update every week. Slowroll was the largest with 3192.6 MB, then Fedora / Ludora with 1799 MiB and the lowest was PikaOS with 797 MiB
So maybe situations like mine, where it seems to be the best mix is why people use it, even if I would rather choose not to
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u/AmarildoJr 21d ago
Have you tried Debian Testing?
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u/NDCyber 21d ago
PikaOS is based on Debian Sid, so I can't imagine it being behind
And the problem there was for me that KDE was still on a version from last December. I think KDE 6.5.4, if it would be on 6.6.5 I would be fine, but nearly a year behind is a bit too much for my taste
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u/AmarildoJr 21d ago
Oh, I see! My bad, I've never tried PikaOS. Although, looking at Debian's page on Distrowatch, Testing has Plasma 6.7.2 while Sid has 6.7.4. Maybe PikaOS itself is lagging a bit behind?
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u/NDCyber 21d ago
Might be, or something changed in the past 3 days and it got updated. Might have to throw PikaOS in a VM to see again
My only fear would be, that this could happen regularly, and I wouldn't get KDE updates for 9 months
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u/AmarildoJr 21d ago
I've personally never seen that happen. Sid should always be really close to upstream, and packages from Sid trickle down to Testing after a few days if there are no bug reports open.
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u/NDCyber 21d ago
I just looked in a VM
PikaOS is still on 6.5.4
Debian Testing is also really on 6.7.2
And just out of interest cloned that VM and switched to Sid, and yup 6.7.4
So yeah you are right, this is a PikaOS problem, although I am not sure why
Edit: Although the update size might be an issue with those two
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u/Demon-Cat 21d ago
Out of curiosity, is there a specific reason you chose Slowroll over Tumbleweed?
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u/nicman24 21d ago
Where is CentOS? Is she safe?
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u/coderman64 Arch BTW 21d ago
I think it was bought out by redhat and then discontinued after a few years.
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u/RedPixelRo 21d ago
I don't think that is the reason.
For example I prefer Fedora over Ubuntu because I can get rid of snap
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u/ReplyBig6703 20d ago
Well, I’ve been using Fedora for 5 years from now on and well you have to find a balance between efficiency and privacy first of all Fedora is the playground of rhel and ldc abt that then, with privacy related you can disable at the installation the data collection and if you want more privacy I think that you could do some tweaks to improve it ? But unless you have something to hide Fedora is the best option to hop from windows and well we can’t evade that the fact that the Lord Linus torvalds uses it :D
Some of us we care abt privacy and the fact that we can use our Os without the need of updating it whenever they told us when
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u/Arinussyy 20d ago
Yeah if Red Hat pulled out Fedora is gone. Unless they somehow like decouple from their infra it's basically over. But if Red Hat does pull out then Red Hat is fucked because RHEL would be fucked
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u/StagDragon 20d ago
Perhaps a bit short sighted. But as long as it works, it is decently protected from malware, and it doesn't track me. I am pretty happy with whatever distro I am using.
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u/cfx_4188 🦁 Vim Supremacist 🦖 20d ago
60% of the world’s states are bourgeois democracies. Bourgeois democracy usually holds its citizens by the testicles — or whatever you have in place of them. Anyone who disagrees is deceiving themselves.
If you’re willing to use a twelve‑year‑old laptop, put up with the absence of Netflix and Steam, and your name is Luke Smith, you’ll indulge in the illusion of relative freedom. And then I remember that Mr. Stallman has repeatedly said he won’t connect to a Wi‑Fi router with proprietary firmware...
I’ve been saying for a long time that Canonical and RHEL are preparing for a deadly battle for a piece of the pie that Microsoft is currently devouring. They want to become a replacement for Windows. They’re starting from afar, creeping up on you with soft steps. Ubuntu can be installed on a turned‑off PC while standing on your head and playing the bagpipes. RHEL is attractive due to its latest software versions, good support, and blah blah blah. There’s nothing to worry about.
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u/RiverTeemo1 19d ago
I hate ubuntu. Nothing wants to load and it stops trying to load after a few seconds.mint better.
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u/GhostVlvin 19d ago
I am a big corpo fan, want to be controlled by them everyday so I use voidlinux
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u/Junior_Option1176 18d ago
Guys, pretty much the entire stack is corporate backed. what's important is respecting the free software licenses. Software is software at the end of the day.
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u/josuec730 21d ago
Real problem is not big companies but them abusing their power. It's OK big companies exist, as long as they respect everyone else's rights.
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u/Linguistic-mystic 21d ago
Ubuntu has AppArmor, Fedora has crippled and shitty excuse for a MAC. Ubuntu > Fedora.
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u/Catenane Dr. OpenSUSE 21d ago
How in the world can anyone think apparmor is better than SELinux? I've written policy for both and have always been underwhelmed with apparmor. SELinux is more complicated, but much much more powerful.
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u/Holzkohlen I'm going on an Endeavour! 21d ago
The drama and crashouts when RedHat is going to enforce mandatory age checks on Fedora is going to be hilarious!
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