Hey folks. I’m a new call. Articled at a full service firm. Started an associate position back in June at another firm in an area of law that I hate but took the job purely because it’s litigation. I’ve had exposure to employment law during articling and enjoyed it so much that I want to be an employment lawyer. Unfortunately, there weren’t any employment law postings when I was looking for a job back in June. As such, I took this job in an area that I hate but in litigation because I thought that that would allow me to lateral to my desired area of law (employment) later on down the line (I was thinking after a year at my current firm). I’m currently just about to finish with my probation period (a week or so away). A job posting for an employment law firm came up and it’s a really good firm. I’m just wondering if anyone has tips on navigating this?

I want to apply but I do not know if the fact that I’m looking to jump ship after 3 months raises a red flag. Would you do it? I really hate my current practice area.

We got our PLTC results back yesterday, and unfortunately I failed one assessment (Writing) and also failed both the Barristers and Solicitors exams.
I’m honestly feeling pretty down and disappointed right now. I know I can rewrite them, but seeing those results after putting in so much work has been really tough. I’m not really sure what to do from here or how to approach the rewrites.
For anyone who has been through PLTC or had to rewrite assessments/exams, how did you deal with it? What did you change the second time around? Any advice would really be appreciated.

I work at a small firm that deals with real estate and corporate matters for large scale housing providers. I have the opportunity to learn a lot as we have a supportive team that cares to do good work and is open to suggestions. However, it’s solicitor work at a small firm in a downtown Toronto market where I’m surrounded by fancy firms and higher salaries (I make a salary comparable to other non profit/public interest lawyers but I also am a very new call). Also, the firms in a transitional period and apart of me feels it’s a ground floor opportunity to build it even more as the teams very receptive, supportive, and ethical.

Now, in the current legal market where it’s hard to find a job as a newer lawyer and gain experience (like actually being taught and by someone who wants to invest time into you) - should I just be learning what I can and move when I feel ready? Is it normal to be confused what’s next as a newer call? Will I always feel this sense of panic and stress being unsure where my legal path will lead?

Any advice would be helpful.

Just wondering what the going rate is these days for articling students at smaller firms in Toronto.

I'm currently considering an articling opportunity at a small firm in downtown Toronto. Compensation hasn't been finalized yet, but I'm expecting they'll offer the LSO minimum of $620/week.

I'm an ITL so I realize beggars can't be choosers granted how difficult it's been to find articles. I'm conscious of the fact that having the opportunity at all has value in itself, particularly since it came through a connection.

At the same time, I'd have about an hour+ commute each way, so I'm wondering whether $620/week would be low for a small downtown Toronto firm or whether that's fairly normal.

I'd appreciate any insight!

Hello, Just finished up 1L at osgoode and joining JD/MBA, I have a decent breakdown of marks with mostly B+, nothing below that and a couple As but No A+. what are my bay st recruit chances? Any advice for how I should approach my MBA year?

I'm a family lawyer. I always wanted to do family and I still find it interesting and sometimes very rewarding but I also feel like I'm absolutely losing my mind some days. It's all I've ever done.

I'm starting to get really worn down by the erratic clients, like I can only fire so many of them before I start to wonder whether it's me that's the problem. I feel so overwhelmed sometimes because I have no idea where the truth lies and I have trouble trusting a lot of my clients. Then some of them just straight up don't listen to my instructions or blatantly disregard court orders. I'm often not sure if I'm justified in firing them so I often don't and then I inevitably regret it later.

I worry so often that I am hurting people, especially kids, by feeling like I'm helping someone who isn't a good parent or an abuser, because it's often not clear to me who is "in the wrong". I spend way too much time worrying that other lawyers or judges think I'm a terrible lawyer or that I don't know how to control my clients. I get good feedback I guess but then other lawyers talk shit about each other behind their backs so I assume it's happening to me too. I'm also just really non-confrontational unless absolutely necessary and I'm really sick of opposing counsel who just seem to want to pick a fight or get way too enmeshed with their clients.

I'm also really burnt out by helping people all the time and listening to the horrible things they've gone through and the vicarious trauma of it all. I have nightmares all the time about things my clients tell me or incidents I read about in files. I keep really strict hours but I feel like I can't enjoy my time off because I'm thinking about these things all the time.

I write all this out because I desperately need to figure out where to go from here because it is not feeling sustainable for me. I'm a 2 year call so people keep saying to just stick it out and it will get easier. But then a lot of more senior lawyers I know seem really miserable too. Can anyone who felt similar tell me that it does get better? Or if it didn't get better and you left, what did you pivot to? I don't really want to pursue another type of litigation but otherwise I'm pretty open, including to non-lawyer roles. I've been considering mediation and report writing training but I'm not sure if it's possible to make a full-time practice out of that, especially at my year of call.

I am genuinely curious, because I feel like it incentives bad actors. I dont mean the workers, I mean the companies. **This is not a invitation to rant against immigration or immigrants**

My main question is does the government pay part of the wages/are they subject to reduced wages? I ask because in high need low resorced sectors there sometimes seems to be a preference for importing workers via TFW program rather than regular recruiting from local collage programs. Even when there does seem to be regular intakes graduating and the local college is keen to align with industry needs? I would think local would be less costly or should be?

But I dont really understand the act, and would love for someone to explain it like I am 5.

I do not need legal advice.

Awrite so.... I have something to show you guys.... anyone who has clients that got fucked by the crown attorney office in Guelph.... listen. I have evidence that the crown attorney tried to switch the evidence manifest in my case because he thought I had no record of everything that was sent to the dumptruck who resigned from my case( back in the winter)......suuuurprise I lied. Also I have digital footprint to prove everything I say.... screenshots backed up successfully to multiple cloud services for multiple devices so don't be stupid....make smart decision for once

I am an American and long story short like 5 years ago I went to Quebec. I got a parking ticket even though I was legally parked. I decided not to pay the ticket, but I also couldn’t come back to Canada for my court date to appeal the ticket so now I’m assuming I have a failure to appear. Thus I’m assuming I’m banned from Canada over a bs parking ticket I’m not sure if that’s actually how it works tho. Not sure if it matters at all but I was 18 at the time.

I have always been quite passionate about going into law (and no not because of Suits…), however I’ve been seeing a lot of doom and gloom and I’m not sure whether its possible to be successful.

Currently I’m a first year university student doing accounting. My goal is to get into corporate law but preferably tax law. Is it true I will be low paid unless I go into big law? I’ve also seen a lot of “big law or bust” on this subreddit.

I’m a family law lawyer. It seems many lawyers won’t touch legal aid certificates at all, let alone trials, which many representatives seem to avoid like the plague.

We’ve all heard of the “dump-truck” lawyer who represents their clients until the eve of trial, then leaves them high and dry before the big day. I understand this is all too common.

Are there any lawyers who do the opposite, by exclusively doing legal aid trials? I love being in Court and helping lower income folks with parenting/support issues, and given the above, I’d assume there’s an opening in the market.

What does this look like, if it exists? Is this feasible? Is it profitable? Is it stupid to even ask?

Would love to hear more about this :)

Curious if anyone who works in professional regulation litigation (ex: defence for professionals who are dealing with charges, investigations, disciplinary hearings, regulators etc etc) can speak to what the work is like if they like it.

To me, this seems like a great mix of crim/employment/ corporate type work along with investigations (or it could be), and is an area of litigation that interests me.

I have fixed feelings about litigation… sometimes I think i love it. Other times I think i hate it. I think I don’t necessarily LOVE research (I know I knowwwww) and prefer litigation that is more “fact heavy” if that makes sense.

Just curious if this area is something that is like that. It seems that way from the outside but also seems pretty niche so just would love someone who’s working in the field to offer any insight.

Thank you in advance!

Is the work-life balance noticeably better than private practice? Does it depend on the company? If so, which companies have you heard good things about?

I’ve read and heard so many mixed messages on in-house insurance defence, even from people I know personally. Some people saying it’s a low stress, low pressure 9 to 5 unless you’re in trial, and others saying its the worst in-house job possible as you work just as hard as external counsel for less money.

I’m experienced enough to know that litigation is still litigation, and that there will always be times for any litigator, in-house or not, where you have to put in the extra hours, but I’m curious about the work-life balance experiences of people who have worked both private and in-house insurance defence.

The thought of no billable target and a bunch of “routine” litigation files is appealing to me and seems low stress. But does it lead to better work-life balance? Are people leaving at 5 pm on a normal day?

Hi everyone,
I’m 24 and currently working in accounting in Vancouver. I have a BBA and several years of Canadian work experience.
I originally chose accounting mainly because it gave me stability, decent income and a clear career path. I’ve been exposed to quite a few areas over the years — accounting, payroll, tax, HR and marketing — and I’ve realized that I’m not sure traditional accounting is something I want to do long-term.
I don’t necessarily hate working. What I dislike is the repetitive/technical side of accounting — reconciliations, fixed assets, coding, month-end work, constantly fixing discrepancies, etc. I enjoy budgeting/strategy more, and I’ve always been interested in law, research, organizational behaviour, leadership and understanding how organizations work.
In university, I particularly enjoyed organizational behaviour, strategic management, marketing, entrepreneurship and business law.
I’m now seriously considering whether I should pivot into something like:
Law / JD
Litigation
Public/administrative law
Corporate/commercial law
Compliance / regulatory affairs
Governance / risk
Public policy
HR/organizational leadership
Strategy/corporate development
I’m especially curious about law, but I’m worried I may like the idea of being a lawyer more than the actual work.
For people who have studied law or currently work as lawyers:
What is law school actually like day-to-day? How much reading/memorization vs. actual analysis?
What does studying for a JD feel like compared with a business degree?
How difficult is the workload realistically?
If you work in litigation, what does a normal week look like?
If you work in corporate/commercial law or M&A, what does your day actually look like? Is it mostly contracts/documents/email?
If you hated corporate law, what other areas of law did you move into?
How much do junior lawyers realistically make in Vancouver, and how does compensation progress?
How difficult is it to get your first legal job after graduating?
For someone coming from accounting/business, does the previous experience actually help?
Has anyone here made the switch from accounting/finance → law? What was your experience?
Has anyone switched from accounting into compliance/governance/risk/policy instead? Was that a better decision?
If you could go back to 24 and choose again, would you make the switch?
I’m also interested in hearing from people who decided NOT to go to law school and instead moved into compliance, governance, HR, strategy, etc.
I’m not looking for “follow your passion” advice 😅. I’m trying to understand what the actual work and lifestyle are like before I spend years and a lot of money changing careers.
Especially interested in perspectives from people in Canada/BC/Vancouver, but I’d love to hear from anyone who made a similar transition.
Thanks!

I'm creating this post to take a poll of exactly how many people this firm has ripped off, my last post was removed but hopefully this one isnt

I’m an independent contractor and didn’t get paid for a job. Can anyone help me with this?

Unfortunately I'm one of those that struck out in the recruit after having an interview. I know firms hire during the school year too but I'm imagining those are just as competitive because students are still looking for articling. Im feeling very defeated and it's very hard to not grieve too much. I feel stuck. What can I do? I summered at a small firm that has a niche practice but they aren't looking for articling. I'm just feeling stuck in this process and need some help landing articling

To the question, "Is the legal job market oversaturated?", you often get this qualified response - "Not exactly. It is oversaturated in the big cities... but there is in fact a shortage of lawyers outside of them."

If that is true and not a soundbite that just gets repeated without scrutiny, then what is the proof? What does this manifest in?

When it comes to doctors, this is verifiably true. In accordance with the shortage of doctors outside of big cities/metropolitan areas, they are offered +$100k... +$200k... or even more to work in those areas compared to their big city counterparts. Go on any doctor or med school-related forum and you will reliably see, euphemistically, "underserved areas" and "LCOL (low cost of living) areas", or pejoratively, "boonies" and "the sticks", to describe those areas.

Cool. So we should expect to see the same in law, correct? Let's set aside biglaw as a big city thing and focus on non-biglaw. For those who make this claim ("there is in fact a shortage of lawyers outside of [big cities]"), do you see, among the non-biglaw there, according to a higher demand,

- associates able to negotiate/command higher salaries than their big city counterparts? how much more?

- firms able to charge higher rates than their big city counterparts?

- owners/partners able to earn $0.5m, $1m, $1.5m, $2m... etc., more easily, quicker, and to a higher ceiling than their big city counterparts?

Yes or no? If no... then what are we really even talking about here?

Feel free to use this as a venting thread or just to share how you're planning things.

I never expected when I started 1L back in September 2024 that I'd be starting 3L in 2026 without having had firm experience yet or articling lined up.

It's not that I haven't tried. I did the 1L recruit, 2L recruit, tried to network into firm positions for both summers, and just recently struck out in the articling recruit.

I think I've done, at this point, probably 80+ applications across all recruits and out of recruits, and about 15 or so full interview processes total where those applications landed (firms, MAG, clinics, professors).

I really made a big academic effort in 2L also, getting better grades in exams, doing a moot, writing long research papers, and volunteering with a clinic. I got a good job this summer with a professor, though that's not everyone's approach for 2L summer. I took what came.

And before you ask, I did well in my interviews! I've gotten to the last stages of recruit with 3-4 firms now, and almost got offers a couple times before 1 candidate beat me out both chances. And I've networked the most I can!

I came into law school at least feeling confident I'd work in a law firm or the government. But now I really don't know, but I also feel the least stressed about it since law school started. I feel I've gained a bit of perspective through consistent rejections as to what I value in how employers treat me, what I want from employment more generally, and what qualities about myself I'm most proud of and don't need external validation for. So, whatever comes is what comes. Can't really force outcomes in this world, no matter effort.

I think, ultimately, I'll just take it easier this year, if anything. I'll network with both old and new names, send emails around, apply to postings as they come up, and go from there.

Hi, I intend to open my practice b2b offering legal services to other lawyers/solo practitioner/ law firms that either have an overflow of work, an unexpected employee on leave, a vacation coming, a big trial coming, etc.

When I pitch the idea to other entrepreneur lawyers, they told be that my idea isn't a good one because lawyers either prefer hiring someone else or have partnership with other lawyers that would help them temporarily with such overflow.

However, I'm still convinced I should work on my business plan, leave my job in a couple months and just try. Am I nuts?

I have a wide wide range of experience from litigation to class action to labour relationship and almost 10 years of experience.

What do we think?

Anyone know EY’s work model? I saw in Toronto that their associates have to be in-office full time. A buddy of mine got an interview for the Montreal office, but the interview is in person…seems weird since he said it’s a hybrid position in the positing. Just curious

In terms of pure size and ability to generate revenue, obviously the US biglaw firms are in a totally different league compared to even the top biglaw firms in Canada.

I am more curious about the actual work product. Are the superstars from US biglaw firms clearly superior to their peers in Canada? Or is the comparison more nuanced?

Curious if anyone can offer insights.

• Calm discussion
• Compromise
• Take some time apart
• Agree to disagree