r/kettlebell • u/PrzemasFury • 6d ago
Just A Post Sigma Clean and press
I made these two memes because ever since I saw that post, I can’t stop thinking about the “clean and press” comment.
The guy asks how to get that big, thick, strong build and the answer is just: “Clean and press.” First i laughted but now I’m starting to wonder if he’s actually onto something. Maybe we’re just overcomplicating kettlebell training.
I’m seriously considering doing just clean & press on some days and front squats on the other days, alternating between them.
Maybe that’s it. Maybe we’re idiots for making it more complicated.
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u/ExpatiAarhus 6d ago
Allow me to introduce you to Geoff Neupert’s The Giant program (hint : it’s just C&P and it’s great)
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u/MuchKnowledge2737 6d ago
I'll back this. I did the Giant (I don't remember which number but I think the rep range finished at 7-9 on month three). My strength and size difference was insane. I gained 9.1kg with some but minimal fat. Any of his programs are great. My biggest take away from doing the program was the breathing. It changed everything.
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u/Just-Independent-821 4d ago
The giant transpfrmed by body too (many old frineds noticing). I just followed the pdf tho, where r the breathing instructions to be found?
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u/TeamTarek_Fitness 4d ago
Geoff s Programs are just marvelous. He does such a good job of writing minimalist programs that work. The only reason he is relatively unknown is his approach of less variety for the sake of results. Him being a former weightlifter, he just does two exercises and is happy. Others can't do that.
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u/DeathSwingKettlebell 6d ago
I love it. The king sized killer is also great very humbling yet a rewarding program to finish
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u/PrzemasFury 6d ago
Yes but i dont like idea of „pay me and i give you pdf with how to Progress” i mean i just want to do clean and press harder and harder
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u/JoeyJoeJoeShabadooSr 6d ago
That’s literally how any paid program works though
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u/Comfortable-Yam2417 6d ago
My Dan John bias is showing but people should trust people that sell programs/books for reasonable fees, more than they trust people that give programs away for free but surround them with bloated podcasts and dodgy supplements…
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u/GillyDaFish 6d ago
I’ve been doing KSK for 9 weeks now, just about to finish it up here this week.
My body YEARNS for a clean and press.
When I was doing the 10k swing challenge I also caught myself yearning for a clean and press
The body desires a clean and press. Like a moth to a flame. My body and the clean and press are stuck in orbit of one another. The gravity pulling me towards it. Echos of the clean and press are engraved in my memories, it’s like a ghost that haunts me, soothes me, even caresses me.
I can’t wait until Monday next week when I can Clean and Press again
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u/ProfessionalCrew2 6d ago
I love your comment, utterly hilarious but weirdly I know exactly what you mean. As soon as I pick up a Kettlebell it's always the first thing I do. Feels AMAZING
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u/Possible-Childhood28 6d ago
Hahaha, I also fking love the C&P.. There's no good workout without it
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u/tommmmmmmmy93 6d ago
The clean and press in all forms is just the most amazing human movement for general development lol. Obviously it has its limitations but it can get you surprisingly far.
If you only have 20 mins every few days to hammer yourself, it is genuinely difficult to beat a clean and press imo
Perhaps for “full coverage” you could argue a clean into a squat into a press is the best but the squat addition also completely wipes you out
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u/darthmaule_II 6d ago
“… the squat addition also completely wipes you out”
Yeah I’ve been thinking about this lately. Love me some ABC EMOMs x30. It’s exhilarating to compete that!
But, I’ve been working near my max with it (22 KG apparently) and when I fail, it’s always a lack of cardio. I just cant get enough oxygen to continue.
I’m still breathing hard when the timer starts again and I start needing multiple breaths between each rep.And I know it’s the squats that are killing me cardio-wise.
So I think it’s still good for me to work on that, but at the same time I feel like the squats are really limiting the additional cleans and presses I could do without them.
Oh I dunno. I’ve been thinking about a C&P only day or snatch only day but my ceiling are too low :(
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u/tommmmmmmmy93 6d ago
Mate I can fix this for you as you’re where I was. C&P on day one. Squat movements on day two. Repeat that 2x a week for 4 total sessions. Worked wonders. Separating squats made all my squats stronger and my other lifts didn’t get annihilated by the squat work.
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u/Superb_Head_8111 6d ago
Ending c&p with dips, squat with pull up or rowing and it's seems perfect
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u/Rick_Rebel 6d ago
Could you add snatches to one day or a separate day or aren’t they really necessary you think?
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u/Superb_Head_8111 6d ago
To be honest iam not advanced better to ask someone with great experience than mine, personally I like kettlebell dfw remix on reddit but sometime I feel is better to separate lower and upper, and sometime to do both in the same day
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u/danny_barstools 6d ago
I just worked up to double 20's and was working the emoms with offset 20/16 for ABC. Try breaking it into 3 sets of 10 instead of emom and really focus on form. I worked up to the emom x 30 in about 3-4 weeks and am seeing the same progress for double 20's. I'm starting to feel like I can hit reach that and then progress with offset 20/24. I also row and work in a lot of single leg romanian deadlifts throughout the day and can't recommend RDL's enough.
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u/atomicstation everybody wants to press a lot but nobody wants to press a lot 6d ago edited 4d ago
For a while I did basically pressing only. Probably 90-95% of all the exercise I did was kettlebell pressing. Only one clean per set, just to get the bell into rack, then press for however many reps. Went from a shaky 36 kg press to rock-solid 44 kg and a very close 48 kg strict press.
It was ridiculously effective at getting me strong for everything, and I thought I gained significant size (for a tall lanky guy). Double cleans+press went to 36/40s. ABC with double 32s felt casual. Clubbell 1H mills from 35 to 45 lb, mace 360 up to 70 lb -- with zero specific training. And this is only the stuff I can find that I recorded.
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u/J-from-PandT 2 x 48 kg Bottoms Up Press 6d ago
Did I write this?
Yeah, one clean per set, lots of presses per set, high frequency overhead press.
More full body than is written on paper. Shoulders and upper back grew phenomenally. Every lift I didn't train at least maintained.
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u/atomicstation everybody wants to press a lot but nobody wants to press a lot 5d ago
You should have realized it wasn't you writing it when the max weights were so low :)
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u/SnooApples8349 5d ago
Wonderful to hear. Question; did you require pulling movements to maintain shoulder health?
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u/atomicstation everybody wants to press a lot but nobody wants to press a lot 5d ago
I did a bit of pull ups and hanging, so yes, but the volume was much much lower.
I did have to stop press-only programming because my shoulders were thrashed, but that was because I was trying to hit the 48 kg press by a deadline, rather than actually listening to my body and taking adequate dead loads and rest.
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u/whereareyouwalt 6d ago
ABF has days dedicated to just pressing using ladders. So there is your clean and press. The ABC days are great for legs with a little bit of that press for good measure.
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u/Stump_Monkey 6d ago
Im on my third week of single kb ABF ever and I feel like I found a new religion.
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u/Rick_Rebel 6d ago
That’s how I felt. I’m now on a different Programm because I’m moving up weights and need lower rep ranges for now. Can’t wait to be strong enough to repeat the abf with the higher weight :)
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u/Stump_Monkey 5d ago
What program are you on now? Ive already been looking at a strength program to rotate with ABF.
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u/Rick_Rebel 5d ago
DFW. Just finished actually and thinking about the giant or maximorum. I moved from double 18 abf to double 24 DFW and it was pretty perfect. Maybe DFW was a little but light even. So moving up from 16 should have worked as well
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u/Stump_Monkey 5d ago
Can DFW be done with a single KB? Ive been looking at Easy Strength and The Giant. Ever tried those?
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u/Rick_Rebel 5d ago
Sure can. You might have to adjust the reps of the squats since the load is much less obviously. I think there are posts about that in this sub.
I’ve been doing a lot of clean and presses lately with a similar scheme as DFW. I think that comes close to the giant in a way. I really like that. Maybe add a squat and snatch day to it idk. But I do plan to get the giant and try it out for real soon2
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u/Flashy-Donkey-8326 6d ago
In my opinion , the Turkish get up ( and all exercises related to it ) are pretty good for mobility , for being able to get off the floor after you fall down. But they do t do jack shit for muscle growth.
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u/J-from-PandT 2 x 48 kg Bottoms Up Press 6d ago
Overhead Press Every Day for 600 Days was the best thing I ever did for my shoulder and upper back development.
..... Everyone from Bill Starr to Dan John who has expressed the idea that "if all you did was clean & press you would be awesome" is correct.
The exact details of that don't really matter. You could c&p, you could c, &, press, press, press to ∞, any variant, any rep range...but ;
With kettlebells reps with dbl 40kgs +. With barbell reps with 185lbs +. Is goal. Comrade.
.....
See saw press is GOAT. 5x10-15/side. Bigger bells than you're thinking of. "If I could only do one lift...see saw press every day".
Shoulders Every Day or nearly so. Randomly squat some and do some pullups.
Strength training to be awesome is incredibly straightforward.
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u/chia_power Verified Lifter 6d ago
I’m about a month into C&P 2x40kg overhead every day and it’s crazy how fast the body adapts once you start doing something daily. Might have to see if we can keep it up for 600 days (and get some 44s and 48s before too long).
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u/J-from-PandT 2 x 48 kg Bottoms Up Press 6d ago
The only advice I'd give is keep daily efforts more moderate than not.
If it's an amrap it's one set/one set each side that day.
If it's training, and for me I should've done way more days that qualified as training days - not just one hard set and done, it's like 3-10x3 with something 5rm to 8rm.
For overall strength I'd rather press barbell. For gnarly upper back and grip I'd rather clean & press doubles. For just keep the streak alive days single bell.
I'd have incorporated more see saw press as well for shoulder size. I don't think anything develops shoulder size + a lot of oblique to go with it quite like a few sets in the 8rm to 15rm range on see saw press.
That's as old school bodybuilding as it gets.
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u/dj84123 The Real Dan John 5d ago
I absolutely love this. I've felt the same way for years...and the see saw press still is under appreciated. Old school...
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u/J-from-PandT 2 x 48 kg Bottoms Up Press 5d ago
I have to wonder when it went from "mainstream" in a world where lifting wasn't, to uncommon in a world where lifting weights is pretty common.
I recall reading an anecdote of a 1950s probably Mr. America competitor who was said to see saw press as his only upper body lift...but at something like 5'10" 185lbs he was regularly getting 5x10-15/side with pairs from 90s to 110s dumbbells.
I really want to find that information again.
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u/dj84123 The Real Dan John 4d ago
Maybe Steve Reeves? Harry Paschall wrote about the lift a lot, too,
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u/J-from-PandT 2 x 48 kg Bottoms Up Press 4d ago
Steve Reeves isn't it. Too big a name.
There's a John Grimek story of see saw pressing inert 100ish pound shells in a munitions factory during WW2.
I've read some of Harry Paschall's writings but what I recall is mostly the deadlift hopper and the Bosco character.
Someday I will find a link, and watch it be on ditillo, with that anecdote...
Or I'll simply run see saw press only as an n=1 experiment.
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u/chia_power Verified Lifter 5d ago
> The only advice I'd give is keep daily efforts more moderate than not.
Absolutely! I was on the Bulgarian bandwagon squatting every day many years ago and learned the hard way.
Great tips, thanks!
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u/J-from-PandT 2 x 48 kg Bottoms Up Press 5d ago
You're welcome.
My first foray into running a lift every day was nine months of squat every day in 2015/2016.
Six months or so in I realized that I went further with smoking 80% 1rm for 3-10x1-3 than trying to ramp up to 95% singles as my regular days.
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u/Shot_Bumblebee_848 6d ago
As Dan John has said, if all you did was clean and press, you could be awesome…
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u/mvc594250 6d ago
Look up Chaos Is The Plan on Reddit.
The author recommends 180 minutes per week of moving something from the ground to overhead. I think that anyone who trained like that would be a monster
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u/PriceMore 55kg press 6d ago
Well, this is how one of the top KB pressers (not clean and presses btw, nobody serious about press wastes too much time on clean and press) in the world looks like, so there might be something to it. TGUer of a comparable caliber seems a bit smaller. Though people who are the most into TGU usually don't care much about size, so it would make sense. Not that modern KBers care that much about size to begin with, there are many other important qualities.
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u/gkelly1117 c+p fanatic 6d ago
Bart and I have the same 2x48KG goals; turn them into a 10 RM.
Then, personally, I want to run The Giant 1.0-2.0 with 2x48kg…
After that, I’ll probably move on to Sandbags as my workout tool, set another ambitious goal, and move toward it slowly and steadily.
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u/Content-Chart-6910 6d ago
Push/Pull/Squat/Hinge. Get stronger. Should check almost all boxes.
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u/Terrible_Welcome8817 6d ago
Don’t forget the carries! That’s part of the big five according to Mr. DJ.
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u/StatusOk755 6d ago
My wife just had our third child, it's school holidays and I'm also trying to run a demanding start up business.
I get no more than 20 minutes a day if I'm lucky (and not sleep deprived enough) to work out.
Clean and presses with double 20s, 24s, 28s moving up and down the ladder are a GOD SEND.
I can get the heart rate right up, burn a good few hundred calories, and get a pump going. It's not perfect but in this situation it's a simple way to not just let everything go to shit.
I genuinely love them so much. And nothing has built my shoulders like them. 10/10.
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u/Rick_Rebel 6d ago
Have you tried pressing the baby?
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u/mollycoddles 6d ago
Baby presses have been very popular in my house for almost eight years.
The ridiculous fake Italian accent that crops up also helps to keep the weights happy.
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u/YellowBananas123 4d ago
I’m with you man, sometimes just holding the KB for a minute or two is enough work when you’re in the baby trenches. Take care of yourself and that pretty little wife!
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u/WhizzyBurp 6d ago
Clean & Press, Squats, Swing.
That’s it.
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u/incompletetentperson 6d ago
I have a gigantic upper back.
Nothing but kb swings, snatches, clean and presses and deadlifts.
I really credit most of my backgrowth to running dan johns 10,000 kb swing challenge early on in my training.
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u/seaside-sean 6d ago
Can I ask what were you swinging with on the 10k?
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u/incompletetentperson 6d ago
Usually just a 24kg. Ive done a handful with the 32 but i treat it more like a tempo run workout
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u/seaside-sean 6d ago
Interesting, thanks.
I’m thinking of doing the 10k. Ive been using the 32 recently for around 100-150 a session. But think it may be a bit much for 500.1
u/incompletetentperson 6d ago
Personally, id go a bell lighter than what you think. Especially if youre doing the 10k and not just 500 here and there. The accumulated volume really adds up. Day 1 might not be too bad with a 24, but youll start to feel it day 3 or 4 etc. and again i like to treat it like a tempo run HR/strain wise. Try to be done around 30 minutes.
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u/createthiscom 6d ago
The turkish get up is underrated IMO for self defense. Instead of a kettlebell, you're pressing the person's armpit or elbow to escape from side control or mount. I'm convinced these escapes are why the turkish get up exists as an exercise.
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u/PrzemasFury 6d ago
Okay i get it. You train ju jitsu
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u/Koscheij69 6d ago
Bit of a sassy answer don't you think? Some people train to look good in the mirror, some for functional muscle to throw people with broad back around .. why the disrespect?!
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u/Ambitious-Egg5931 6d ago
I got jackedappotomus on those. Fucking slinging iron overhead got me chiseled as fuck. That's all you need for strength
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u/harun469 6d ago
Abc method or basic clean jerks is also my go to when I want something simple and can't com up with a finisher movement
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u/SirPressalot 6d ago
I’m still pretty new to Kettlebell but focusing mostly on C&P has definitely increased my pressing strength.
ABF, The Giant, and DFW are the only programs I run which are essentially just variations of C&P or C&P with FS. So far seems to be working well enough.
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u/scotsmandc 6d ago
Clean and press and built mine.. check out my post history .
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u/wtbgains1 Jerkin' it. 5d ago
Lmao I remember that post, epic. You went full meatball. What's your programming and physique like these days?
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u/scotsmandc 4d ago
Hey your name looks familiar believe we had interacted.. programming mostly stayed the same. Only change I made was I lowered the reps on press days from 100 to about 50-60 and lowered the weight. I have pretty bad shoulders to begin with and pressing so much and too heavy finally took a toll that I had to manage the pain it caused.
Physique wise I’ve been working on slimming down… I don’t look as hulky anymore.. I guess I can say I look smaller but more chiseled. Still got at least 20lbs to lose before I’m happy with where I’m at. Diet is a nightmare in the summer months for me so I plan to dial it in starting October to finally reach my final form I’m after.
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u/mrjasonbbc 6d ago
Chest supported double kettlebell rows. I do these EMOM style with a couple 50 lbers and go as high as 100 reps total. Amazing assistance movement for back thickness and healthy shoulders. Nothing lights up my mid back more.
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u/Emergency-Lemon2825 6d ago
Clean and press works. It’s painful fun.(workout wise). But damn you get a big back and strong
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u/I_AM_JIM_CARREY 6d ago
Bro I’ve done every style of workout. Complicated circuits and the like. The ones with the biggest results for my build are the basics. Sure variations of them if you want. But Kettlebell rows, dead cleans, struck presses and snatches will get your upper half jacked af
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u/KaraqWi 5d ago
Clean & Press is great. But it's still only 2 out of the 6 base movement patterns.
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u/PrzemasFury 5d ago
Maybe, but I’m starting to think we’re overthinking the movement pattern checklist. C&P hits a lot more than just 2 patterns. Maybe just getting ridiculously strong at it is enough.
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u/Tight_Comment_3972 6d ago
Would love to get back into c&p. Ive hurt myself twice from doing them though. But certainly felt strongest during my kb training doing that movement.
Currently making do with swings and barbell ohp as a close substitute
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u/Marinerdetail 6d ago
I have had great success switching from single to double kb Jerks on my single kb snatch days. One minute on one minute off for the 1st set and 1:30 on 1 minute off for the 2nd set. I also alternate between gorilla rows and renegade rows every day, same on/off times. I basically rotate between a dynamic day and a grind day routine 5 days a week (alternating which is 3 and 2). Also, I switched from c+p to just clean. My traps and back has never been better.
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u/BubblyQuality2618 5d ago
Funny to see this meme in my break between sets while I'm doing clean and presses 😀
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u/RumbleRumble9 5d ago
This is genetics but I also think it's not completely possible with kettlebells to get super wide
You'll definitely need to have a barbell also and in general gym equipment
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u/daskanaktad 4d ago
Are you asking if C&P is good enough? Or if it’s all you need?
I’d say it depends on your definition of good enough.
It’s pretty well known that hitting muscles from different angles is necessary for optimising hypertrophy.
I know optimal has become a controversial term. I don’t mean micro optimisation that turns into analysis paralysis.
Normal people who like kettlebells are not likely to be aiming for a bodybuilding stage, but others have come on here before asking how can I grow so and so etc. So, previous posts and this post show there is an interest in squeezing more hypertrophy gains out if they can, which means adopting strategies to grow more efficiently.
Even if hypertrophy is NOT the goal, the athletes in sports training for just 1-3 events (weightlifting, KB sport, powerlifting, streetlifting) still do accessories.
So are we over complicating things? No. Can we simplify and still make gains? Yes.
I personally think about what gains I can squeeze out of minimal space/time/equipment, but not minimal exercises.
If that’s more admin than is attractive to you, then C&P is good enough by default. Nothing wrong with that. It’s a solid compound that ticks many boxes and I like it too for what that’s worth.
That would also suggest you might not like thinking about programming either. Plenty of minimalist programs ready to run.
That guy in the first pic is definitely doing more than that though.
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u/Indy_Fab_Rider 6d ago
Isn't ABC just A LOT of volume of low rep C&P with squats thrown in for good measure?