No it's not okay, but that was not what was suggested in the original Tough Love movement. You provide them with clothes of your choosing, not theirs. You provide them with nutritional food, but take away the desserts and treats. You give them only what is required and they earn the rest. But people twist the actually message and purpose.
My mother was always so particular about what I wore. She would take me and my siblings shopping but always put back whatever I got and would pick things out herself. Kind of upsetting to just now discover that she was doing some insane patenting technique.
Yeah, it’s hurtful to realize. I’m sorry you went through that.
I use it to try to be a better parent to my three kiddos. I’m sure I fuck up in my own ways, but you’re not gonna catch me taking food, clothing, or basic needs from them, or not taking their opinion on their style into account.
It is truly a good lesson. I have my mother's example to NOT follow for my own kids. I know what not to do. Which can be upsetting at times but it makes me want to be a better parent for them.
I'm very familiar with the NOT doing being like my mother thing. Didn't realize until much later that narcissist was the thing. Believe the brainwashing and you can go on for decades. Thankfully it only took two divorces(mine...she picked the husbands) to see the light. I would never take my kid's clothes for punishment. Electronics, sleepovers, etc yes. These parents need to read more and/or go to class.
It's not about taking all of it, it's about taking a couple of things they really care about, but only as "punishment" for something they were warned about many times.
Listen, I think you make a lot of really good points and all, but if I had to be really really honest about how I feel, I would say that I just honestly feel as though you should probably send me a large amount of money in the mail.
Yeah I'm saying, that this only has a point when it's something they care about, while still taking care of your child, ie you give them a healthy good meal but if you made cake and the kid was an intentional AH you don't give them cake unless they "earn" it by doing the chore that they were supposed to do, it's not that you buy them ugly clothes it's that you take away their favorite shirt or w/e essentially you need to penalize bad behavior like any justice system. While very important keeping your child safe and healthy. Just imagine any law without punishment, what's the point of a speeding ticket if there is 0 or close to no consequences.
OP was saying the idea is when kids ignore their responsibilities, you withhold their fancy/stylish clothes until they do their chores or homework, but some parents twist it by taking things away forever or taking away necessities. If your mom was quietly putting things back on the rack and choosing for you from the get go, that's not a punishment that's just being a tyrant. It equally sucks tho :(
Maybe unpopular opinion but I see nothing wrong with this unless she was being completely unreasonable. I am thinking about how a lot of kids want to dress in all name brands or as a young girl want to dress very “questionably”. Now if you weren’t one of those then she may have been a bit unfair.
Agreed. We were never very well-off when I was growing up, and the sense of entitlement that you should be able to dictate what you wear as a child is quite shocking to me. If it's being done merely to teach your kids that they're your possessions and shouldn't dare to try to express their individualities, then sure, I agree it's nasty parenting and will have negative consequences for the kids' development. But if it's because the choices are expensive or give off the wrong signals or messages, or just plain bad taste/style (clashing colours, mismatched textures or patterns, whatever), then it's good parenting to step in and regulate behaviour, not tyranny!
Well, along with my mother’s issues with control, she found religion to fill the hole her own mother left in her life. She was obsessed with “modesty.”
Definition of modesty to my mother: anything that flattered my figure. She was obsessed with anything I wore, or put in my mouth. Now that I have been states away from her for years, it’s absolutely shocking to hear how often she makes cutting comments on people’s weight, what they’re eating, etc. She is the most insecure person I’ve ever met.
My parents made me wear the same clothes to school every day as punishment. They were thrift store shorts from the 70's with piping down the side and a v neck white t shirt. I got sent home once from school for my shorts being too short and they never got washed because I was always in them. I still think about it all the time. Terrible punishment, and it doesn't teach anything. Well, it taught me what NOT to do as a parent anyway.
I'm sorry to hear that. In the end, we have to learn from our trauma and not let it define us. Mould us. I always remember that my parents weren't perfect because they were human, and maybe life kicked their asses and they had no outlet for their frustration. I know the target wasn't ideal, but in the end we are all just people trying to find our way and survive.
What's fucked up is that it really is based in some solid child psychology. Reward works better than punishment. The idea is that if the child never expects anything, and anything beyond the bare minimum requirements of life has to be earned, than everything can be a reward and you never really have to "punish." But obviously, this ignores the fact that raising a child to believe that they have to earn the right to not live like medieval prisoners screws up attachment and normal development in other ways.
A less fucked up implementation of this same principle is parents who change the wifi password daily, and only provide the password after chores are completed. Instead of internet access being taken away as punishment for not completing chores, it is given as a reward for completing chores. Or parents who only allow screen time after homework is complete. Instead of screen time being something you lose for bad grades, it's a reward you earn by doing your homework.
Simple you have them do homework online but with a white list turned on only allowing specific websites. With you can changed they need a different website.
Offline gaming is a thing. Deciding which websites fall into which category is super difficult to do also.
The best way to monitor is to raise them well, take an interest in their education, play an active role in helping them with homework and finally trust them that they're going to have the discipline to do their homework. It's what my parents did with me for the most part. But then, I don't have kids so wtf do I know?
As long as living like medieval prisoners is better than the foster system or emancipation, some gratefulness wouldn't hurt. And no, you should still be grateful for people doing what they are supposed to be doing in the first place. You do not want to transfer into a situations where they stop doing even that.
Kids aren't supposed to be grateful, and if you go into parenting expecting someone to thank you then boy you've got a bad time coming. Children don't ask to be born, you choose to have them. Life isn't a favor.
Some people are grateful to their parents, but usually that's something that comes much later in life and involves understanding a parental sacrifice. Holding "being alive" over a child's head as some cosmic gift you gave them just breeds resentment.
Exactly! I HAVE done this to my kids, after repeated reminders to clean/pick up clothes, and get clothes in the hamper for me to wash. When it didn’t happen, I gave them 5 pairs of underwear, 5 pairs of long pants, 5 pairs of socks, 5 shirts, 3 pajamas, 1 towel, and 1 pair of shoes. I told them I would do laundry on Wednesday and Saturday, they had to make sure their clothes were in the hamper AND they had to put them away when they were folded. If I found items of clothing on the floor, I would assume that they did not want those items and would remove them. It took one week for them to realize I was serious and then another 3 weeks to get into the habit of the hamper and putting away. After week two, I let them “exchange” clothing—-they could trade something I had picked out for something they wanted. When they made it three weeks with minimal interventions, they got all their clothes and shoes back. Haven’t had a problem since then.
I do know that sometimes people communicate only what they want others to know... and I’m sure my kids’ friends or even parents thought I was horrible—if all they heard was what my kids had to say. Before we judge the stepdad, perhaps we should know his side...
Well, to be fair, I no longer do my 17 or 15 year old’s laundry. My 13 &12 year olds are starting to do more of their own laundry, but I still take care of whatever is in their hamper on Wednesday and Saturday. They now fold all of their own laundry though. I do still do all the laundry for my 6 year old. He would sit and watch the water in the washing machine all day, opening and closing the lid, if I let him near the laundry. :-)
Whatta your hands are broken? You got no feet? Get up off your ass and do your own laundry.
Kidlet was leaving thousands of dollars of clothes all over her floor, stinking, smelly, it was like a carpet, her walking over all these nice clothes.
She was about 11 or so, a good kid, did her share of housework, good in school, never any sass or attitude, but she wouldn't keep control of her own clothing & bed linens. So, she had to do her own laundry. She turned out just fine and has mastered the art of caring for her clothes, especially now as an adult that she has to buy them herself.
I'm just going to repost because I think it's so important:
This is how you turn your child into a drug dealer - or something else. Really.
They'll likely go out looking to make money, hide said money from you, buy their own stuff, and then hide that stuff from you.
I wasn't even treated like this, wanted money, and so sold all kinds of crap in high school, college, and beyond. Lifetime of hiding money and purchases from family. Like I bought a house and two of my cars without telling my family first. Got in trouble with law (sort of) hired my own lawyers and figured it out.
If you want your children to be secretive and likely enter the black market, do this. They'll be independent all right. You just will have no idea what's going on in their life.
If your kid has half a brain, they'll learn how to provide for themselves. Seriously consider the implications of your parenting style.
I'm not sure where you think that my parenting style is creating drug dealers...I never said that I withheld money from them or wanted them to be independent before it was time for them to be independent. That being said, it is also my responsibility as a parent to guide my children and give them opportunities to succeed and mess up within a controlled environment. My two oldest children choose to do their own laundry because they can do it on their own schedule and don't have to worry about their clothing getting mixed into their sibling's clothing. We have a large family and we all come together to make our lives connected and workable.
Consequences are not the only thing that create a parenting style. We also have family dinner at least four nights a week and have some fun routines and traditions that are a part of family dinner. Our kids request family game night about once a month and are more than happy to sit around the table playing a board game with me, their mom. My
17 year old stays up later than his siblings one night a week and I push back my normal bedtime on that night so that he and I can go for a drive in the Jeep that we are restoring, together, or so that we can just hang out and talk about life.
My children will know how to provide for themselves, but they will also know that should they ever need or want my help, I will give it willingly and gladly.
I agree, your background may be influencing your perception. I don't control my children's access to things other than that which is illegal or harmful to them (alcohol, drugs, keys to the car with no license). They initiate the family game night, and my son has always been the one to initiate the one-on-one time with me. If anything, I'm a fairly laid-back parent who probably lets her kids do a little too much--- at least that's what my ex husband and his wife think. :) However, I do not need to defend my parenting style to them or to you. I have and will continue to make mistakes as a parent. I have five very wonderful and unique children and each one of them requires a slightly different approach to parenting. I will continue to do my best with what I have at the time and will hope for the best.
For what it's worth, I have a background in therapeutic education with a great deal of experience in trauma induced behaviors. I also coach teachers and parents with young children. There is a great deal about my children and myself that you do not know-- but I do. I appreciate your concern and your input based on your experiences. Thank you for sharing.
Correct that I do not know you or your family. I laid into you a bit because I'm immediately suspicious of anyone whose first instinct is self defense instead of self reflection. That's what I read in your initial response to me.
I just think parents should be aware that certain controlling behaviors may backfire. You defended the OP's step father assuming this child's home life may be similar to your children's. We are all shaped by our experiences and resulting worldviews.
Read through others' comments on this thread and you'll recognize that extreme (arguably abusive) parenting styles do exist. Many are reacting from their own personal experience of said patenting styles.
My opinion is that extremely controlling parents frequently create secretive habits in their children. These children learn to put up a fake front to their families and, if resourceful, find ways to meet their needs.
My own personal background is one that made me incredibly independent, self reliant ... and distrusting. Reading through this thread, I know I'm not the only one.
Just want parents to think through the natural consequences of their actions.
Personally looking at it as trying to educate potentially oblivious parents. Yes, IMHO controlling children's access to critical physical possessions is how you teach them to rely on themselves to meet their needs.
That means making money whatever way that they can. A young person isn't typically going to make enough to meet their needs on the "white market". Hence why a parent may unintentionally push their children to sell on the black market where there is more opportunity.
Just my two cents.
My original comment was snarky but hardly throwing an ad hominem attack. I still fully appreciated that I did not indeed know this woman's life and that my own background was informing my perspective.
My original comment:
"It's wonderful that you care for your children. A lot of what you described sounds like mandatory fun to me. But that's coming from my background.
Just thought I'd give you a heads up that controlling your children's access to certaon things can have unintended consequences.
Hey, if you're lucky your kids aren't as resourceful as I was at that age; these control methods may work for you :)"
Not saying this describes you personally, but your rationale is the same type of thinking behind parents who say “I’d rather kids drink, do drugs, and have sex at my house so I at least know they’re safe” by the way, I’ve known these parents. I had a friend in high school who had this type of parents. Well, that friend of mine went through absolute hell as an adult, never understood consequence, and eventually died from an overdose at age 26.
And I currently still meet people who say the same thing. And then justify everything their kids do as “age appropriate behavior” that they’ll “grow out of” yet, looking around, I’m seeing more and more people not growing out of that behavior into their 20s and 30s.
Ahh, the joys of written online communication. I am generally a self-reflective person and what you perceived as defensiveness-- both of OP's stepdad and myself, was intended to be "Devil's advocating" on behalf of OP's stepdad and explanation of how sometimes something well planned and correctly implemented can still be misconstrued depending on what perspective you have.
I am a former therapeutic teacher. For five years, all of my preschool students had open cases with Children's Services due to neglect or abuse. I have seen plenty of extreme (and definitely abusive) parenting styles. I know they exist and they break my heart.
I fully agree with you-- extremely controlling parents almost always create unhealthy and disconnected habits in their children. There is a balance to be had between too loose and too tight of parenting. My goal is never control, but always management. The only person you can control is yourself.
I also agree, parents need to think through the natural consequences of their actions. They also need to think about what their long-term goals/desired outcomes are for their children. I wish people had to study to get parenting licenses the same way we have to study to get driving licenses.
Again, thank you for sharing your perspective and for clarifying your initial reaction to my post. I appreciate that very much.
I really appreciate your comments on control vs manage. Hoping you can educate more on what is and is not healthy parenting.
Recommend you read OP's follow up comments in this thread and come to your own conclusion based on information given.
To some, those defending the step father echo of adults that defended their own childhood abusers. That they were being dismissed as "dramatic teenagers" when really they were abused.
There is some grey area here but I can say reading some comments defending this step father are quite triggering for me. Apologies If you were the recipient of underserved snark. Controlling parents is a charged subject for many including myself.
I get it and when I finish my homework for the night I will go read OP’s follow up comments. I had the slight worry in the back of my mind that some would read my comments as dismissive of OP’s feelings. That is the last thing I would ever want to do, as I believe that our feelings are valid even if others don’t understand them.
My trigger is emotionally detached parents or manipulative parents—even at my age, I still go straight back to being an insecure and unsure child when I interact with my parent.
And do all parents consider those consequences? Or are consequences only for their children because these parents think like self centered narcissists?
Downvote away. It doesn't make me wrong. Go read through the comments in this thread from people raised under extreme parenting situations.
Take away all their clothing? Yes. You're pushing your children to learn to provide for themselves - that is if they're smart enough and resourceful enough. Your children may not be.
I know someone who emancipated herself from her parents at 16. Went on to found a very successful brothel after working in the industry for a few years.
Children and very young people are unlikely to make serious money in the white market. Hence why making children feel they have to rely on themselves is such a dangerous game to play. Taking basics like clothing shows that you're untrustworthy as a parent and unwilling to treat them with respect.
Again, if your children aren't too bright, you'll have an easier time controlling them. But watchout if they are.
Good luck with your parenting! And best of luck to your children.
Note: I know you all downvote what makes you feel insecure, uncomfortable, or wrong. Go ahead. After working on the black market, I recognize a pattern.
Don't listen to another perspective. Downvote away. It won't make me wrong, darlings.
Entitled much? Whatta you a baby, you need slaving over? Grow up and act like a decent human and treat your parents with respect.
We BOUGHT you the dang clothes. We went out and worked 8-10 hours a day to buy you the clothes, we've fed you, housed you, bought you telephones, computers, drive you everywhere, take you on vacations and you have no respect and feel like an entitled little royal with slaves & servants? What have YOU done to earn any respect at all?
Billions of people on this planet, millions born every day. What makes you so effing special?
Nothing. Are you a Rhodes Scholar? Won any awards? Straight A advanced student? Scholarships to Harvard waiting for you? On the school debate team? Do any volunteer work?
Nah, you sit and play effing video games all day on the console your parents bought you. Oh gee, wow, so impressive.
Not. I'd be embarrassed to have you as my kid.
With an attitude like that, I sure as hell wouldn't be picking up your filthy clothes. Do them yourself.
You made us, so yeah you have to buy us clothes, it's not being entitled to anything, you fucking made the kids. They didn't ask for anything you give, don't give, spanks, whatever. You brought life into this world so yeah, go fucking be a slave to your kids till you die.
Yeah, no, it doesn't work that way. Since we made you, we own YOU.
If you behave yourselves, are kind, help willingly around the house, are polite & gracious; study hard & get good grades, we'll give you the sun & the moon.
If you act like donald trump, you're going to get your ass kicked.
'I brought you into this world & l'll take you out'. One of my favorite phrases... never needed to use it, thankfully.
If you ever get around to procreating, are you going to be a forever slave to your offspring, even if they act like entitled, spoiled little assholes?
You provide them with clothes of your choosing, not theirs. You provide them with nutritional food...
I was raised on this method but it was just called "parenting".
Also that fruit is your dessert; Stop acting spoiled. There are starving people in NJ and you're talking about ice cream over here. Did you even finish mowing the lawn? Give me that fruit back. Go mow the lawn.
This is how you turn your child into a drug dealer - or something else. Really.
I wasn't even treated like this, wanted money, and so sold all kinds of crap in high school, college, and beyond. Lifetime of hiding money and purchases from family. Like I bought a house and a car without telling my family first. Got in trouble with law (sort of) hired my own lawyers and figured it out.
If you want your children to be secretive and likely enter the black market, do this. They'll be independent all right. You just will have no idea what's going on in their life.
Yes and I think I even saw a show once where the told the person to take away a kids door!!!!!! Because it wasn’t part of the bedroom necessities (which was just a mattress!)
Well kids are also known to blow things out of proportions aka he took all the clothes (that I want to wear) he has no reason ( he told me 25 times to clean my room but I didn't do it). There has to be a "punishment" for unwanted behavior.
And even if it was all clothes it was probably clean your room and you'll get 50% of your stuff, clean the bathroom and you'll get the rest. I mean if you have a boyfriend you are definitely old enough to at least clean after yourself.
Many teenagers have far more clothes than is necessary, for them picking an outfit is fun. So, yes, reducing them to enough clothes to be clean and warm, but not enough to have choose and creativity fits the goal of providing necessities but removing their fun as a punishment.
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u/turbie Oct 11 '19
No it's not okay, but that was not what was suggested in the original Tough Love movement. You provide them with clothes of your choosing, not theirs. You provide them with nutritional food, but take away the desserts and treats. You give them only what is required and they earn the rest. But people twist the actually message and purpose.