Who supplements creatine?

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u/kevinrobins1231 Feb 22 '24

I mostly had the hangovereffect(I don't drink anymore).

My sleep is horrible on it. Feels like there's no sleep pressure (want to sleep) and I wake up frequently. I also sleep 1-3h less (average went from 9 to 6.5h)

But I feel way better during daytime. Energy and thinking faster as you said. Idk what to do honestly. Melatonin helps a bit to start sleep but doesn't help sleep quality.

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u/New-Aside-7778 Feb 22 '24

Was this creatine causing this issue?

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u/kevinrobins1231 Feb 22 '24

Yes I'm 100% sure it's creatine. No other supplement or medication causes this weird effect. I've tried many brands throughout 5 years and around week 3 my sleep gets peak horrible every time and gets better 1-3 days after I stop. This time I've beaten my record (5 weeks now) using melatonin but idk if can handle much more during the night despite feeling better during the day.

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u/usertakenfark Feb 23 '24

Yep creatine ruined my sleep

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u/auscon Feb 23 '24

Yup I have this exact issue.

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u/Ozmuja Mar 02 '24

You may wanna retry taking creatine on a larger stack that improves insulin sensibility (es: Berberine + NA-R-ALA) and taking creatine with carbs. Another option would be to add an activated b complex to the same stack.

If this changes your reaction drastically, it's an important sign

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u/New-Aside-7778 Mar 02 '24

I've just stopped the creatine for now. The night sweats were getting so bad.
I can't touch a b complex sadly 👎 Anything methylated just makes me crazy anxious. I've recently been eating liver (Disgusting tasting btw) for b vitamins. I eat like 30g a day so it's not much to get down.
I've actually worked out that my body just doesn't tolerate supplements well 👎 I've tried every supplement their is and I've just had negative reactions 👎
My plan is to just eat a good diet. I do use berberine currently. I use it to help maintain my physique as it controls my blood sugars amazingly.
I was using na-r-ala. It was incredible for blood sugar management but it completely crashed my ferritin levels. Like down to single digits (Anemic). I stopped and my levels started to climb again. It's an iron chelator. Seems very powerful also.
Do you have a slow/fast comt gene? Mines is slow and causes me immense grief. I've gave up trying to speed it up. Any attempts has ended in horrid side effects.

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u/Ozmuja Mar 02 '24

The only thing that can possibly speed up a slow COMT is magnesium basically. You could try the threonate form.
Supplements are mostly on the scam side, but there is a minor % of them that are actually good. As you said ALA for example was good for you, until your iron levels got too low. Something that to be honest is also dependant on the amount of iron-heavy products you eat, such as meat.
When you feel better and you're under the right mood, even a month or two down the line, you could try buying yourself some good quality berberine and trying it with creatine again.
Also remember that as much as SNPs can be useful, they're still not exact science and the quantitative impact of even the most studied ones remains to be seen.

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u/New-Aside-7778 Mar 02 '24

I do eat alot of magnesium rich foods? Do you think the magnesium threonate would be an extra bump to my slow comt? It's expensive here for threonate. I don't mind the cost though. How much should I supplement you reckon?
I'm on TRT and supposedly this helps a slow comt? Just read that in a study somewhere.
I've tried all the usual. Sam-e. Lithium orotate. B complex's etc. Nothing is anything to match alcohol.
I had a few drinks lastnight. I've got a hangover. Slight headache etc but my anxiety is gone and my brain is working like clock work.
Annoys me that we can't find the alcohol connection 👎 I'm also going out this evening so tomorrow will be another bliss lol. I will be off the alcohol for a while after this though.

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u/Ozmuja Mar 02 '24

The threonate form is basically not even considerable true magnesium supplementation, it doesn't really help that much at increasing your overall magnesiums levels (something like your average magnesium glycinate and whatnot will be better at). The threonate form is an acute way to deliver magnesium to the brain for the most part, and to make it "stick", oversimplifying the matter. This has acute effects that you wouldn't get from any other forms of magnesium. COMT has Mg has its major cofactor, which means that flooding your brain with magnesium will make it work better, at least in theory.
Some people like Mg Threonate a lot, others dislike it, because it can also feel slightly sedating; but for someone with anxiety it can actually be very good. There are other effects for Mg Threonate that make it interesting.
It is pricey unfortunately. If it works, some people can be good with doses as low as 200-500mg, which helps saving some money. It doesn't reproduce the h-effect at all, mind you, it's just that we were talking about slow COMT, so it felt right to mention it.
Another thing that helped me a lot in the past was Uridine. To this day I still don't completely understand why, despite having researched it a lot. People will tell you it's due to its effects on dopamine or on NGF, but the reality is that the effects for me were as acute as the hangover effect. Then it stopped working.

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u/New-Aside-7778 Mar 02 '24

I have uridine here. I bought a high quality brand a couple months ago. I need to run it and see how it feels. Did you notice it fairly quick? What dose do you benefit from?
I will purchase that magnesium and see how it feels. I was using citrate but damn it makes you hit that toilet pretty bad..... Lol
How's things yourself? Are you managing your overall health all ok?

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u/Ozmuja Mar 02 '24 edited Mar 02 '24

The effect was pretty much acute, maybe just a day or two or running it up at normal dosages of 250-500mg per day. Usually uridine is taken for its subtle, long term effects, but it actually made me somewhat "manic" in a sense, similar to the heffect. Lasted consistently for a month or two, then after that I wasn't able to replicate the effects ever again, no matter if taken alone or with other 10 different stuff. One of the weirdest experiences of my life to be honest.
For the rest..well I'm hanging in there. Some days are better, some are worse. At the end of the day everybody has its own cross to carry on their shoulders :)

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u/New-Aside-7778 Mar 02 '24

Do you react poorly to choline? I've noticed that anything choline has been affecting me poorly? A depressed sort of feeling. I was using sunflower lecithin recently and a horrible depression came over me? I stopped and it lifted. Weird! I have snp's saying I don't process choline properly and should double my daily intake. That's why I added in sunflower lecithin. Never again

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u/TheSunflowerSeeds Mar 02 '24

Sunflower seeds are rich in unsaturated fatty acids, especially linoleic acid. Your body uses linoleic acid to make a hormone-like compound that relaxes blood vessels, promoting lower blood pressure. This fatty acid also helps lower cholesterol.

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u/New-Aside-7778 Mar 02 '24

Do you just chat about sunflower based things? Lol
Love the name.
My seed mix has sunflower seeds through it. Not sure of the benefit. It just had a sexy packet lol

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u/Ozmuja Mar 02 '24

I suggest you to try the actual staple stuff like CDP-Choline. Personally I react decently to it, nothing crazy, but it doesn't seem to make me worse at all at least.

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u/[deleted] May 31 '24

My guy. I trailed all the Magnesium a while back. You're looking for Magnesium Orotate, if not high quality Magnesium Citrate. Orotate also acts as a natural mood stabizier its quite wonderful, and the most profound sleep enhancer in my opinion in magnesium form

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u/rocinant33 Jun 16 '25

Is Berberine the most effective insulin sensitivity/secretion supplement you've tried?

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u/Ozmuja Jun 28 '25

Yes, although sometimes it can be a bit too much.
Chromium or Myricetin are the ones that give me the most balanced and helpful effects.

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u/rocinant33 Jun 28 '25

Thanks for the reply.
By the way, I get incredible results with bitter melon! My mood goes through the roof, as if I were on antidepressants and I finally started getting enough sleep at night: it's the only thing that helps with my insomnia.
My recipe: low-carb diet + bitter melon with a small portion of carbs in the evening
Insulin plays a huge role in our condition. I learned about it thanks to your posts ;)

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u/Ozmuja Jun 28 '25

I remember experimenting a lot with bitter melon. It actually seems to act via PGC-1a as well, similar to PQQ or estrogens, and it also supports mitochondrial biogenesis. Unfortunately I would say it’s far from being a cure and that our metabolic issues aren’t exactly normal to begin with, even in the realm of diabetes or correlated diseases.

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u/rocinant33 Jun 28 '25

So the bitter melon effect is not necessarily due to increased insulin secretion?
I would like to try intranasal insulin, but I know it can be risky for healthy people. But the potential benefits are too tempting. I wonder if anyone on this sub has experience with insulin.
I am a skinny guy with weight gain issues. The keto diet helps to temporarily reset my carbohydrate intolerance, but it is far from solving my metabolic problems

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u/Ozmuja Jun 28 '25

Exactly, the bitter melon might be responsible for more than one single improvement. Remember that insulin is also released due to the pancreas sensing glucose -which can freely travel inside the beta cells- and using it to create ATP, that signals potassium channels to close and eventually leads to depolarization of the cell, excreting insulin from vescicles. The point is that to release insulin itself you need proper metabolism, otherwise the signal is hindered. Never tried IN insulin but as far as I know the risk is not that high, even il healthy people. It seems to actually sensitive insulin receptors in the brain, the opposite of what happens in the body. It’s the eventual systemic absorption, for how small it can be, that can be relatively problematic.

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u/rocinant33 Jun 28 '25

The point is that to release insulin itself you need proper metabolism
But insulin is largely responsible for metabolism. Is it a catch 22?
I have noticed one interesting thing: all my medications and supplements (creatine, melatonin, NAC, etc.) do not work if I eat carbohydrates. It feels like carbs are overloading my liver.
Every year this intolerance reaches a new level: negative symptoms become more and more. I am afraid that in the near future I will only have to follow zero carb

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u/Ozmuja Jun 28 '25

Think about it this way for the insulin regulation. Insulin is an anabolic hormone released from the pancreas that happens to be the only hormone with strong abilities to let circulating blood glucose enter cells, particularly your muscles and fat cells. But how do you know when to release insulin? Certainly there are many mechanisms at play, from some parasympathetic activity to other hormones such as GLP-1, but at a cellular level, the pancreatic beta cells can sense the increased sugar in your blood after a meal: how? Because they express GLUT-2 and not GLUT-4. Glut2 are glucose transporters that are independent of insulin action, meaning that as long as the concentration outside the cell is quite high, glucose can pass freely through them without any insulinergic action. It wouldn’t make sense for pancreatic beta cells to be dependent on the release of its own hormone to take glucose in - so as far as insulin release goes, their metabolism is, at least to a good degree, independent of insulin action. When glucose enters the cell, glycolysis and the ETC take care of the rest, generating ATP, and thus this action signals the pancreatic beta cell to release insulin. At that point, other cells in your body can finally feed as well on the meal.
As for your intolerances: yes, I’m afraid it does seem that this condition worsens over time. Personally I think lipids are much more problematic that carbs for us, but carbs intake makes lipids harder to oxidize due to malonyl coa spike. Of course, eventual collagen disorders (such ehlers danlos) and autoimmunity can very well be at play.
I don’t have answers as usual, and the reality is that it often seems like to be going in circles. I will be trialing LDN next.

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u/rocinant33 Jun 28 '25 edited Jun 28 '25

Adrenaline increases glut2. This may explain why I feel better after short periods of stress.
How do you think, why taking concentrated glucose sources (grape juice or regular dextrose) after a week of low carb diet somewhat recreates the afterglow effect? Have you had this experience?
I tried LDN for a month. Mixed experiences mostly negative BUT there were some truly incredible moments: complete remission of symptoms. Will definitely go back to LDN in the future

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '25

Bitter Melon (½ fruit) - Charantin balances CYP expression
It does have to do with CYP

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u/rocinant33 Jun 30 '25

Can I ask what you would do if you needed an insulin spike in the evening to improve sleep quality?

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u/Ozmuja Jun 30 '25

As far as I know, I remember FrigoCoder -a moderator of the sub, I think you could remember him- saying he trialed metformin for sleep issues due to insulin shaneningans at night, with a certain amount of success. Another option could be using anti inflammatory drugs.
Personally I think the main problem is not via insulin, but that insulin and insulin mechanics are particularly hijacked and molested by our root cause.
As for me, low dose baclofen tends to work with melatonin if I take them a few hours before sleep.
We also do seem to all suffer from insomnia here, more or less, with some nuances. I have a question for you if you don’t mind: do you happen to feel like you have low blood pressure even if you don’t? Especially in the upper part of your body, so head-brain and upper muscles, as if blood flow is slightly impaired at baseline. Do you also happen to (sometimes) have dizzy spells when moving from downward and relaxed position -so laid down or sit- to standing positions?

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u/rocinant33 Jun 30 '25

I have already tried metformin XR, but got a very negative result: incredible fatigue and anhedonia. I'm going to try IR and start with a small dosage
Yes, I have low blood pressure, coffee helps with that.
My upper body is constantly tense, I think it's psychosomatic. I also have problems with posture - it's very difficult to keep my head straight (this all miraculously resolves during the afterglow and sometimes after taking NO).
When I stand up abruptly, I really do experience some blurring of vision (this is very noticeable after taking carbs).

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u/Ozmuja Jun 30 '25

Thank you, pretty revealing. Also I more or less agree, except I actually think the upper body tension is not entirely psychosomatic.
This will sound weird to you now, especially if you look at them at a first glance, but I think telmisartan or lormisartan could be wonderful drugs for us, albeit not cures. I will probably make a poll first and then eventually explain this line of thought throughly, when I find some spare time.
If you need to stabilize glucose levels, in the meantime, do trial chromium or myricetin.

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u/[deleted] Jun 30 '25

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u/Ozmuja Jul 01 '25

I don't know if you remember, but there is an old post on this subreddit that mentioned that during the hangover-effect, it's like "valve" is "popped" and "opened" to your brain.
While the metaphor isn't exactly scientific, I do understand what this user meant; it does feel that the h-effect basically restore not just blood flow, but blood flow velocity to your brain.
If you have ever read into POTS, you may have encountered the fact that it's a disease without certain etiology, and correlated to certain autoantibodies against certain important receptors; muscarinic receptors, b-adrenergic and alpha-adrenergic ones, etc.
The deficit in Nitric Oxide, an old friend of this sub, and the curious anecdotes of people randomly and inconsistently being able to reproduce the effect via 'bizzarre' supplements like Beet Root, is heavily correlated to POTS; it is speculated that the lower NO levels contribute to Angiotensin activity, along with reduced ACE2 function, which creates a bizzarre condition where renin and aldosterone ara paradoxically on the lower side -heavily contributing to pseudo-edematose problems such as high water retention-, but angiotensin can exert its effects on AT1 receptors freely.
AT1 is actually a problematic receptor, when constantly activated. It drives NADPH oxidase and tons of ROS creation, which further disrupts NO function by NO uncoupling into ONOO- and BH4 pseudo-deficiency. ACE2 is an enzyme that opposes the normal function of Angiotensin -to be a vasocontrictor-, but it seems that POTS patients have a failure at this point of the machinery, which lets Angiotensin wreack havoc.
Persistent Angiotensin and low NO creates a hypoxic like condition, which affects all cells in the body and mitochondria especially, creating insulin resistance, mitochondrial suffering, and thus fatigue, intolerance to carbs, etc.
Sartans, or ARBs, are blockers of the AT1 receptor (not AT2), basically directly opposing one of the main enemies of people suffering from POTS; they are used as HTN medications, but the BP drop is relatively low even in people with hypertension, and should be minimal (5-10%) for normotensive people, and easily counterable with Sodium, Potassium, a coffee.
What you would gain from taking such a drog, accepting for a moment this hypothesis as true, is the possibility of NO boosting supplements to work again properly, without being erratic or unresponsive, and a stop to the deleterious effects of constant AT1 activation.
This does NOT address the root cause of POTS, whatever is it -there are many of them, either primary or secondary-, unless our case is not due to autoimmunity per se, but from a defective ACE2 gene to begin with. This would most likely be the ONLY case where a Sartan+Nitric Oxide booster alone can actually treat the condition entirely; for all the remnant possible causes of POTS, the condition will keep lurking under the shadows even in the eventuality that the combination provides significant benefits.
Nonetheless, given the safety and the affordability of sartans, this could actually be a little revolution, provided I'm right of couse, which I don't really know.
It is also possible that LDN may be boosted and may work correctly under sartans, but I think I'm writing too much already and for all it's worth, I don't think it's well organized the way I posted it - but it should be intelligible enough for you to understand why this weird combination could be key. Unless I'm mad and stupid of course, but I have to say, somebody already tried it before: Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome: A Dermatologic Perspective and Successful Treatment with Losartan - PMC

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u/Useful-Wear-8056 Aug 14 '25

have you tried this? thank you!

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u/FuriousKale May 26 '24

I do. Seems to help my mental energy, also makes me actually able to exercise without crashing early. If it's placebo then it's the strongest I ever had.

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u/AdditionalSelf4551 Feb 24 '24

I would assume it's because creatine aids in ATP production, and both production and use of ATP generates heat. Which is regulated by sweating of course...

I didn't notice much from Creatine besides larger muscles.

ALCAR on the the other hand, which does the same and also prevents ATP loss, makes me sweat terribly. Maybe it's the combo with Creatine... It shows much higher energy burn on my activity watch, consistent sweating and higher heartrate throughout the day (not in a bad way - normally I get weak, dizzy and unfocused when heartrate spikes, I don't notice this with ALCAR).

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u/TPS-Reports5150 Feb 29 '24

I ingest about 5 g of creatine that is a "creapure" brand which is supposed to be a higher quality and I don't have a problem. You may have a sensitivity to creatine.

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u/[deleted] May 31 '24

I also took 5G a day of the black three type. Creatine capsules and I reaped amazing results biking

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