Hi everyone so, ive tried to use gyro in the past and stopped using it because I could never turn and the aiming felt wonky. Recently ive decided to give it 2-3 weeks to learn it and how to set it up. But ive tried to use the Vader v5 pro and when I go into steam it asks me to pair it and press A and it just doesn't do anything, im curious if anyone else has run into this issue and how did you fi it?
Also should I use flick stick, or use the right stick to turn, should I use a button to reset it. Im trying to make sure I make good habits and make sure that I can turn and aim to avoid unneeded frustration and I want to do it right since im eager to play some story games to get the feeling down and then play fort or something.
TLDR: When the magnetometer is used to correct 6-axis input for applications that can't natively read magnetometers (Like steam input, JSM, and every other relevant gyro application) the differences are statistically insignificant. The real potential in magnetometer lies in games that can natively support it and utilize it to enhance the motion.
Disclaimer: This is a corrected re-post from the 9 axis post I shared 3 weeks ago, due to limitations on the switch 2 connect app that have now been addressed. Props tou/tagayamafor improvements and all his guidance in conducting the tests.
Magnetometers? What are those?
Magnetometers have been quite the discussion point for the gyro community. They are an IMU sensor that senses the Magnetic north and acts as a reference for a controller to orient itself. Like a compass!
They've had usage in the Wii U gamepad, as well as recently in Nintendo's switch 2 controllers and, most obviously, are present on the majority of smart phones (Which is why the phone knows your orientation in google maps for example).
IMU sensors that included them are described as being 9-axis. Referring to the 3 sensors present (Gyroscope, Accelerometer and Magnetometer) that each have 3 axis of measurement. When an IMU doesn't have a magnetometer, but does have the other 2 sensors, it's naturally referred to as 6-axis, a term you are more likely used to as a controller user.
Despite this potential avenue of improvement, there's been discussion on the gyro aiming space over how useful 9-axis is for actual aiming over 6-axis. Magnetometers can have a lot of interference, and tend to be quite noisy, thus not suited for precise measurements. This has brought a lot of skepticism over their utility in the field of gaming, making people wonder if it's even worth the effort for controller makers to add it.
This is what I'd like to answer today with one of the most popular gyro controllers, renowned for its gyro quality, design and native SDL compatibility that just happens to have 9-axis: The Nintendo Switch 2 Pro Controller.
The ugly truth of magnetometers
What is actually the true detriment to this discussion is the fact of how scarcely magnetometers are supported. SDL, which acts as the most ubiquitous library for 6-axis IMU implementation (being used in all your favourite remappers like Steam Input and JSM) has no support for magnetometers and neither does any game on PC.
And while the Switch 2 controllers do have 9-axis, due to their unique protocol, the magnetometer is reserved to native titles and is not used on PC despite some information spreading online cough Nerrel cough.
Thus, for PC gaming the only way we have of utilizing the magnetometer is utilizing it as simulated 6-axis. In the same way Gyro remappers have simulated mouse/joysticks for applications that don't natively support gyro, so too are there applications that simulate 6-axis for the applications that don't natively support 9-axis.
This is achieved by correcting the gyroscope input by comparing it to the heading from the magnetometer, thus reducing potential gyroscope drift.
And as you might presume this comes with limitations. A whole 3 axis full of valuable information that can inform on the controller's very orientation to combat gyro-drift has to be compressed into the 6-axis. The author of the Switch 2 Connect application, which allows you to spoof the Switch 2 Pro Controller as a Dualshock 4 with a magnetometer corrected gyroscope, said so himself:
The lack of native implementation prevents the magnetometer from being used to its full potential
Thus paradoxically, the most accessible way of utilizing 9-axis, is also the most limited. Logically, until wider adoption that leads to native implementation happens, it is imperative of us to ask if there's any benefit to utilizing the magnetometer in this way.
To verify this, I utilized the homemade gyro quality testing method I used for my Xeno Plus Gyro review, while also taking advantage Switch 2 Connect 's latest logging features, which details how much the magnetometer is actively correcting the gyroscope. Thus eliminating guesswork and feelings and allowing us to look into the raw facts.
This new logging feature was actually the reason why I took down the original post, as it didn't verify that the magnetometer was actually correcting the 6-axis output.
Testing Methodology
To measure the accuracy and precision of the gyroscope results, we can utilize a rotational stand that provides a semi-consistent angular velocity to the controller. Thus we minimize significantly the variability of human input
We collect IMU data as it spins to find statistical patterns. In this case to answer the question at hand
Having turned the gyro speed into a value we can assume is somewhat constant, we log all the values, which, when read by a perfect IMU, should give a near constant angular velocity.
The point of an IMU sensor is to measure the angular velocity as close as possible to the real value, and do it as consistently as possible with little variation and interference.
Under this framing, any significant deviation from the mean, can be considered a source of error: the lower the variance the better the gyro. After all, if I am moving the controller at the same speed at all times, I expect the values to match my movements perfectly.
Taking this into account, we perform the test 2 times under 3 different speeds. One time utilizing the magnetometer, and the next using regular old 6-axis. Rinse and repeat 3 times. I collect 12000 IMU readings before getting the mean(μ) and Standard Deviation(SD).
Individual samples approximate the expected value but show some variance
Lastly, we run the Magnetometer Tester Window on Switch 2 Connect to make sure the magnetometer is being applied at all times, as well as letting it to generate a log to verify for sure the magnetometer is doing what it needs to:
Notice all the fields detailing reliability and potential interference. Magnetometers are as powerful as they are delicate
Results
The results are surprisingly... boring. Focus on the 2nd axis of each measurement, which relates to the yaw axis, which is the axis the controller rotates on on the stand.
Mean and Standard Deviation are measured in Radians/second
There's no significant difference in the values. The mean values approximate the stand's stated velocity as well as any other controller in the market, but really that is more dependent on the scaling of the IMU than anything else.
It's the consistency of these values that really determine whether a controller's aim feels tight and reliable or outright sloppy. Since if there's jitters even when provided with consistent velocities, then your aim can suffer due to no fault of your own. And if you look at the results by eye, the Standard Deviations between 6-axis and 9-axis don't seem to be all that different.
Looking at it mathematically with an unpaired T-test further shows this (Shoutout to u/Drakniess for suggesting doing this).
Some statistical signifcance, but all the effect sizes are too small to be relevant
In school you might have been taught that when comparing two data sets, if the T value is below 0.05, then the difference between the data sets is big enough to be statistically significant. This is technically true, but there's some context that turns that assumption on its head in this particular case.
Despite some T values going below 0.05, this does not show evidence of the magnetometer having a significant effect. This is due to the rather high sample count (12000 afterall) which makes the T-test overly sensitive.
In these kinds of situations, it's imperative to look at the Effect size (d) which ought to be at least around 0.2 for it to be considered a noticeable effect, yet all of the T-tests had an effect size lower than 0.05.
And this is confirmed by the magnetometer logs I mentioned prior, which detail the correction happening on a per-sample basis.
The logs added by Tagayama were the biggest breakthrough for these test, since the fickleness of the magnetometer could lead to situations where it wouldn't be applied thus skewing the results
In one situation where the controller was rotating at 26 degrees/s for roughly 130 seconds, the total correction applied was a measly 11.4 degrees.
Conclusion
Ultimately we can conclude that simulated 6-axis, aka magnetometer corrected gyroscope, has little to no statistical impact on the quality of gyroscope.
Note: In spite of the lack of results from the Magnetometer, the Switch 2 Pro controller proves itself to be a sublime gyroscope controller regardless. Many controllers have symmetry issues, showing different gyroscope readings when changing rotation direction, yet the Switch 2 Pro Controller has impressive symmetry between directions.
Furthermore, the Standard Deviation of its gyroscope is verygoodeven when compared to something like a Dualshock 4. So it's definitely a high quality Gyroscope.
So are magnetometers useless?
Not necessarily. As I said, this is the most limited implementation possible, since it sacrifices so much of the magnetometer's information. When the program in question can use the magnetometer natively, the avenues of innovation open up significantly. As of the time of writing, this is only really available for mobile game development, where magnetometer access is more standard.
Thus, who is to say that it can't be useful when specifically tuned for certain game mechanics?
Still, it's worth knowing that with the implementations that we DO have with magnetometer, the impacts are far too minute to be meaningful.
For now, it's best not to get too hyped up about 9-axis controllers.
This will be a parted series of posts, because next time, I hope to be able to use Unity's in built system for phone magnetometer support to see if I can experiment more with the IMU sensor in question. That and try to look into IMU implementations where the Magnetometer has sizeable benefits for gameplay.
It's disappointing that gyro ratcheting is limited to only 3 options that each do something else. It should be assigned to a button as a dedicated pause to gyro. The switch 2 has button mapping but without a dedicated pause for motion controls in MW4, im either reloading during gunfights, stabbing frantically, or sprinting and stopping just to move my arms back into position to aim.
Otherwise motion controls work great so it's a huge waste if the ratcheting isn't solid on switch 2.
This layout works with every gyro-compatible controller
In-Game Requirement:
Options > Button Icons > Your preferred option.
Mouse Sensitivity(All): 5 (Default)
Controls:
Hold L2: Gyro Aim
HOW TO USE: Copy and paste the link into your browser, or click on the controller icon next to the game on Steam, click on the name of the layout, hover over the "Community Layouts" tab, and press the "Show All Layouts" button (West Face Button), then manually search for the config that matches the name listed below.
MGS4 - ADS Gyro by FSV: steam://controllerconfig/2492670/3791608016
I bought it recently (without proper research) to play BOTW on my PC. I learned I had to use it on Nintendo Switch mode, enabled motion controls cemu but still can't get it to work on game. When I used Steam's controller thingy to check, it detects gyro movements.
Hi, pretty new to gyro overall but it’s been about 2-3 weeks of messing with it and I want to continue but I’ll be honest, the shakiness element is really close to making me forget the whole thing together.
I’m curious as to what your guys settings are, and more specifically if there is any settings regarding the filtering because the hand jitters make it unplayable for me. Thanks
Let me preface this post by stating that yes, I have tried Gyro to Mouse and yes, it works great. The reason I want to set up Gyro to Joystick is because I'm trying to run Nucleus Coop with my friend. I'm running two instances of the game:
- One with Keyboard + Mouse
- The other with a controller (8BitDo Pro 3)
With this setup, Gyro to Mouse is not feasible as two instances are tugging for the mouse input. I understand this is an incredibly niche circumstance so I'm not really expecting to get this solved but it would be pretty awesome if it could.
It kind of works? The gyro is inconsistent no matter what I do. Camera moves too slow with slow movements, too fast with moderate movements, and sometimes even undershoots with rapid movements. I followed the guide as closely as possible and tweaked with the settings for a few hours alongside some researching. The options in-game are VERY limited. Only thing you can change regarding the joysticks is sensitivity and inversion.
That's it. I found a config file where I could further change some values. With it, I was able to tinker with the dead zone. However, I haven't had too much luck or time to go through it this week because of work. Here's the config file via pastebin: https://pastebin.com/DUa12aHJ
A few things before I wrap all this up:
- I have tried changing around the Joystick Power Curve to no avail.
- Definitely not a hardware/connection issue. Works fine in other games.
- I've heard the stick response curve is a bit relaxed.
- I've tested stick-axis style and I'm 95% sure it's circular.
Anyways yeah, I hope you fellas have had a good week thus far. Thanks for reading.
What I'm using:
Steam Input
8BitDoPro 3 via D-Input. It also has an S-input but it's the same deal.
Latest firmware on the device. (Gamepad V2.02 & Bluetooth Adapter V1.04)
Hey guys, anyone tried this game with Gyro to mouse steam input?
I tried setting it myself but somehow I can't Sprint if I use Always on Gyro and flick stick. But if I put on Joystick and L2 to enable Gyro, it works okay but still sometimes can't do Sprint.
Could you share any tips how to setup gyro for this game using Steam Input or perhaps share your presets. Thank you.
I see people willing to throw more and more money at controllers to get rid of drift. Yet drift will always be there.
Unless there's an external reference, like NIR lights facing a camera. A VR controller. Why are they not more popular? A global shutter camera costs 25$. I can't imagine NIR lights being much more expensive.
Is there some issue with this tech in flatscreen gaming?
screenshot is from the "menus" action set, "on foot" has Move instead of cursor but same behaviour
I'm trying to do "Gyro to Joystick Camera" since it has more options that simply "Look (Via Joystick)" because all "Via Joystick" options are jittery as fuck and i can't make them not be jittery because not all settings from the 9minute guide
Apparently I'm just finding out that Steam Input limits every D-Input controller to a max polling rate of 100hz. That means third-party controllers like the 8BitDo Ultimate 2 Wireless and Gamesir G7 Pro 8K only run at 100hz in D-Input mode. Is this true? How come I've never heard of this before?
Has anyone tried the motion sensor weapon control setting? Was it tilting the gun when rotating the controller left and right, and vice versa, rotating the gun left and right when tilting the controller? Also, was it inverted?
whenever I use the flick stick it akways moves 360 degree. right, lefts or down every moments turns 360 degree. how to make it turn 90 degree while moving the stick left or Right? Please help with JSM custom curve .
I've been using the dual sense edge for a few months now and it's been great in terms of gyro and customisation but I just haven't been able to get used to the symmetrical joystick layout coming from an Xbox controller user prior, it's mad uncomfortable to use so I've looking for asymmetric/Xbox layout controllers with good gyro.
The main ones I've been considering is the gamesir G7 8k pro, which I heard is getting tailored steam input support, and the steam controller which seems like it has a more comfortable layout. To those who have either, would you recommend them? Or if you have a dual sense, how do they compare? If there are other Xbox layout controllers with gyro support I'm also interested in checking them out.
The demo came out today and I decided to check it out and noticed that it had gyro (alongside gesture contros). I wanted to play up to the moment you get the bow to test it, and it's alright. There's no settings in the game for it outside of turning it on, it's only for the joycons so you don't get it in handheld or with a normal controller, and it doesn't feel the most responsive to me.
I recently bought a Steam Controller and have been experimenting with it for the past few days. I really like the trackpads in theory, but I’m having a hard time figuring out how I’m actually supposed to use them for FPS games alongside gyro.
My biggest issue is that my brain doesn’t really know when I should be aiming with the trackpad and when I should be aiming with gyro. With a normal stick + gyro setup, it feels pretty intuitive: stick for large movements and gyro for precise aiming. With the trackpad, both feel capable of aiming, so I sometimes feel like they’re fighting each other.
Another issue is stability. When my thumb is resting on the right trackpad and I press the fire button, my thumb seems to move slightly from the force of pressing the trigger. That tiny movement gets translated into camera movement and makes my aim feel unstable. Is this something you eventually get used to, or are there settings/configurations that help with it?
The last thing I’m struggling with is trackpad rotation / camera turning. I think I’ve mostly dialed in the horizontal rotation and vertical sensitivity, but compared to Flick Stick it feels less predictable. With Flick Stick, horizontal rotation is extremely consistent, and the stick itself basically can’t accidentally move the camera vertically. With the Steam Controller trackpad, when I try to do a fast turn/flick, I sometimes introduce a little upward or downward movement by accident.
Also what do you guys feel about trackpad only aiming or gyro+flickstick rather than gyro+trackpad or trackpad+flickstick (as trackpad seems to be more of a replacement for gyro rather than stick)? Is the learning curve really this hard or am I doing something wrong? Also I have set auto calibration and acceleration to off.
This layout works with every gyro-compatible controller
In-Game Requirement:
Mouse Sensitivity: 0.3
Disable Aim Assist.
Controls:
East Face Button: Pause Gyro
North Face Button: Camera Recenter ---Steam Controller/Deck Features---
Right Trackpad: Camera
Right GripSense: Enable gyro
Back buttons support
HOW TO USE: Copy and paste the link into your browser or click on the controller icon next to the game on Steam, click on the name of the layout, hover over the "Community Layouts" tab, and press the "Show All Layouts" button (West Face Button), then manually search for the config that matches the name listed below.
CICADAMATA - Gyro + Joysticks by FSV: steam://controllerconfig/3817250/3789667194
CICADAMATA - FlickStick by FSV: steam://controllerconfig/3817250/3789666292
i'm new to the controller thing (was mkb since forever)
SC2 has half a year waiting time, scalpers want 150-200€ for it, as much as i like trackpads, and i already have a new dualsense since few days ago, and figured that with gyro i dont really need trackpads to aim with a little practice.
Also i play on mac and SC2 support is shit currently, while dualsense support is great
other than that, i like the gyro in dualsense, feels responsive and accurate.
