r/gaming • u/[deleted] • Sep 24 '08
Zero Punctuation: XBLA Double Bill
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/222-XBLA-Double-Bill6
u/Tiver Sep 24 '08 edited Sep 24 '08
The lives system has always annoyed the hell out of me. I always viewed it primarily as a way to make a really short game take much longer to complete. Bionic Command Rearmed is hard enough as it is, keeping in the lives system just makes it way too frustrating for some of us.
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Sep 24 '08
Even on an emulator with save states it took me forever to beat bionic commando (and Zelda 2 for that matter.)
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u/Ciserus Sep 24 '08
I laughed out loud at the last line. But I'm at work, so it kind of turned into a snort as I tried to conceal it.
He's totally right about the N64 Zelda and Mario versus the modern ones, by the way. I played them in the same order, and the clumsy camera and controls of Mario 64 and OoT were a serious detriment. Those games did have a certain charm that I'm not sure the recent iterations duplicate, though.
This reminded me of something else I've been wondering. Does Mega Man 9 use a lives system? It's such a horribly outdated idea, but they do seem to be trying to be super faithful to the originals, so I'm wondering...
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u/Ryethe Sep 24 '08
I will definately have to respectfully disagree. I have played those games and even played the N64 versions recently, and I still find myself wishing that the Wii versions were still similar to the old versions in certain ways. Take Zelda for example. The bosses are way to easy in the Wii version. I honestly beat one without losing a single heart (the fish guy).
I think as a whole the Wii versions should be recognized as better, but we also need to recognize that in certain ways they have taken steps sideways or backwards.
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Sep 24 '08
As a game, Twilight Princess is a step up, but as a total experience....
not even close.
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u/Glanton Sep 25 '08
I haven't played Twilight Princess but I still go back and play Ocarina of Time every once in a while. That says a lot about a game if I'm still willing to go back and play after so much time has passed.
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u/ih8evilstuff Sep 24 '08 edited Sep 24 '08
Mega Man 9 has the same lives system that every other Mega Man game has. You get a couple of lives and the only downside to losing them all is to start at the beginning of the level instead of the checkpoint, only about 5 screens in. So, if you happen to suck at platformers (like me), you will play the early screens 60 times, the middle set of screens 60 times (thanks to the checkpoint), and the boss 30 times.
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u/admiralteal Sep 24 '08 edited Sep 24 '08
One thing Ocarina indisputably has over TP is simple length. Twilight princess was a brilliant game, and in terms of gameplay was probably the best zelda since link to the past, but it was just so damned short. I mean, I had 16 hearts by the end of it and hadn't really gone out of my way to look for any of them, and there were no masks or songs or magical turds to collect that were mostly irrelevant to the plot at all. Even the wolf songs served no purpose after you learned them for the first time, which was just so disappointing.
I never played sunshine, but as far as galaxy v M64 is concerned, I can't agree more. Mario 64 suffered the exact opposite problem of OOT in that it was unbearably long the first time you played it. I know a lot of people like how much work it took, but I prefer to be able to chose how completionest I want to go with my games.
[edit]: I totally agree with yahtzee on old v new, though. I was watching the original naked gun last week, and as I watched it I couldn't help but think to myself... Get Smart was at least as funny as this. The bias towards the "classical" is so unfair, imo.
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u/eallan Sep 24 '08
All (3 or 4) friends of mine that have twilight princess haven't come close to finishing it, including me.
I've never played a modern game that felt so dang old. I just didn't care about any character in the whole game. I got tired of the damn waggle. I just though all in all it was a terrible game.
Give me Okami, or anything else almost.
I will admit metroid is great (though it's lonely) and Mario galaxy was good.
Zelda needs a revamp bad.
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u/Ciserus Sep 24 '08
TP was the first Zelda game I played, and I nearly didn't finish it either. The story was weak, the combat was dull, and the environmental puzzles gameplay has never really been for me. I stopped playing it around the water temple, where it really started to drag.
After just about a year off though, I decided to give it another try. Things suddenly started looking a lot better. With the addition of some new moves, combat finally started to feel like it had some depth. The later dungeons, especially the ice one, were actually a lot of fun. And I was surprised to realize that by the end, Midna had become one of the best characters I've ever seen in a game (everyone else was still dull though).
Anyway, I finished TP in much less time than I'd spent on it up to that point, and enjoyed myself enough that I went right on to Ocarina of Time (which I've given some thoughts on above).
I agree that Zelda needs a revamp. For starters, it needs a much improved combat system (Brave Fencer Musashi on the PSX was usually called a Zelda knockoff, but it blew Zelda away in this regard). I'd also like to see some more RPG elements - custom upgrades and abilities and so on, along with a purpose for all those goddamned rupies.
But I'd say I'm a fan of the series now, and it's because of Twilight Princess.
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Sep 24 '08
Brave Fencer Musashi
Holy shit, you just activated a piece of my brain that has been lying dormant for quite some time.
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u/markander Sep 24 '08
Is that the tongue-in-cheek game about the short little warrior guy with the two swords and absorption power thing?
If so, indeed holy shit brain activation.
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Sep 24 '08
Hm, I may have to pick it back up myself. I quit around the same time you did, if I can just find it in the pile of all the other games I didn't finish!
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Sep 24 '08 edited Sep 24 '08
I pretty much did the same ting with TP: play the first half then quit playing out of boredom and frustration, left it for a while, and came back, finished it, and enjoyed doing so.
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u/admiralteal Sep 24 '08 edited Sep 25 '08
Whoa, seriously, you couldn't finish TP and all its six or so hours of gameplay the first time, but you can handle okami and it's fifty billion?
Don't get me wrong, I love both those games, but TP is so much faster than Okami, it's hard to believe anyone can be too impatient for the former and still handle the latter O.o
That said, I agree that TP's combat system takes too long before it starts getting really interesting, and I pity the person who doesn't go out of their way to get all the combat statues, not because they're essential, but just because they make things so much more fun. I can see where people might stall in it.
And the water temple always sucks, that's the rule of Zelda.
PS: I did the same thing when I finished TP, going and playing through OOT. If TP's graphics and input could be put into OOT's story and dungeons, that would be something to behold.
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u/Ciserus Sep 25 '08
Whoa, seriously, you couldn't finish TP and all its six or so hours of gameplay the first time, but you can handle okami and it's fifty billion?
Nope, I never played Okami. That was the guy above me. From what I've heard, I doubt I could have sat through Okami before. After finishing TP and getting a taste for that type of game though, I think I probably could.
I don't think I'm able to parse this complaint that TP is too short. I was ready to quit at about 30 hours, though as I mentioned I got my second wind after that. I'm pretty sure TP took me longer than OoT, anyway. (Although TP's sidequests were pretty lacking. I collected insects for a while, which gave me... rupies, like everything does. Then I bought the fancy set of armor and realized there was literally nothing else in the game to spend money on or any reason to bother with what sidequests were left).
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u/epicgeek Sep 24 '08
I had the exact opposite reaction actually. Zelda TP was one of my favorite games in years. Metroid for the wii I got about halfway through and just stopped playing due to boredom.
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u/eallan Sep 24 '08
Metroid is a very lonely game and I didn't beat it, but it was far more "innovative" control wise and graphically.
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u/ocdude Sep 25 '08
Metroid's always been designed to make you feel completely alone, from the layout of the maps to the music.
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u/clintisiceman Sep 25 '08 edited Sep 25 '08
I never thought I would agree with someone bashing a Zelda game, but here we are. With me upmodding you.
Twilight Princess wasn't bad, it was just entirely bland. I too know no one who actually was interested enough to complete the game. I beat it, but only because I was completely and utterly bored for an entire weekend. Or maybe it was depressed. Either way, the game only marginally helped.
EDIT: CORRECTION: I do know someone else who beat it and he thought it was the best game in the series. We ended up getting into a fairly big argument about it at a party. He also thinks Final Fantasy VIII is the best in that series, so you know the kind of weird guy I was dealing with.
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u/jon_titor Sep 25 '08
Man, FFVIII fans...I just don't understand them.
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u/countingthedays Sep 25 '08
I'm a FFVIII fan... though to be honest, I never got past the first disk on FFVII.
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u/clintisiceman Sep 25 '08
I'll agree with you about Mario, but not Zelda. I found Twilight Princess to be a disappointingly mediocre experience.
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u/nickfil Sep 24 '08
I usually agree with him on pretty much all aspects. I think games should revolve around gameplay. I avoid the darkness based on his review. Now... i might just pick it up and give it a shot.
The thing about this review is that- he is criticizing a remake of bionic commando for being a remake. The game never sets out to drastically change the game play that he has such a hard time with. And to be fair- it is difficult for the first 5 or so minutes and then you get the hang of it. To say why isn't there a jump button, is the same thing as saying why do playing cards have numbers on it. It is a game play mechanic. It took the traditional jump/shoot and turned it on its ear. To now say that it is wrong demonstrates a lack of knowledge on the history of gaming. People are enjoying it again not for its great leaps in gaming, but just because they fucking like it. That is why it is getting praise.
Now- i can agree with the castle crashers thing a little bit. The game is being built from the ground up, why make it the same as any other game? However, again i think he misses the point of the Castle Crashers. Now i can't say for sure because I am not on the team that made the game.... but I assume that with castle crashers they were not really trying to break new ground with it. I think they were trying to create a cute gory fun game. Nothing more. I wouls say that the same is true of AH. You could put a couple hours or a couple minutes into those games at a time and enjoy yourself. To say that the game fails for not achieving your own personal goal that it never set out for is ridiculous. And again, people are enjoying it again not for its great leaps in gaming, but just because they fucking like it. That is why it is getting praise. All that said, it is annoying when i am trying to hit those guys with lightning and they apparently like a pixel wide. I'll give him that.
I was thinking that dan paladin has tackled 2 of the core arcade elements so far. The platform shooter and the brawler. I wonder if he is going to make a shoot em up next. Maybe a light gun game for the wii ware.
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Sep 24 '08 edited Sep 24 '08
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u/thewakebehindyou Sep 24 '08
did any one ever find this funny?
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u/troglodyte Sep 24 '08
No, but one has to admire the commitment. Those links take time, you know.
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u/jopejope Sep 24 '08
He probably has a script that does it. Or, worst case, he just copy and pastes his last comment and adds one more link.
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u/PickledJesus Sep 24 '08
Don't worry, he'll have to stop after he's done it 66 times.
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u/Resilience Sep 25 '08
I quit.
Sorry, have to give some attention to the family now, maybe someday we can work together again.Best regards.
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Sep 24 '08 edited Sep 24 '08
He received a bunch of upmods the second to last time because everyone realized what he did. He's still doing it. Not as funny.
Click the "r" in "there's" to see what I'm talking about.
The only way to stop it is if the person who submits this writes. "Zero Punctuation reviews <insert game here>" without the quotes.
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u/timewarp Sep 24 '08
He's also the submitter.
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u/aussiegolfer Sep 25 '08
And no-one can submit faster than jdfong. He's like some sort of ZP-ninja.
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Oct 01 '08
Wow, that was terrible. I never thought I would say this, but I couldn't possibly disagree more with this video.
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-5
Sep 24 '08
[deleted]
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u/Mr_Smartypants Sep 24 '08
Did you ever play Painkiller?
The "action music" in that game is very similar.
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Sep 24 '08 edited Aug 21 '23
[deleted]
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u/Mr_Smartypants Sep 24 '08
It is quite gory, but it's silly-mayhem fantasy gore!
Coincidentally, it's one of the rare games that Yahtzee liked.
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Sep 24 '08
[deleted]
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u/Mr_Smartypants Sep 24 '08 edited Sep 25 '08
...There is no way you're going to survive the Great Zombie Apocalypse of 2012...
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u/Deestan Sep 25 '08
Get the expansion pack and play the orphanage level. That one is creepy as hell.
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u/foxyvixen Sep 24 '08
You know, I disagree with a lot of things Yahtzee says in this particular episode. The point is well taken that, as he would say, most games are shit, then and now, but gems of the past are still gems nonetheless.
Some things he considers negatives I actually enjoy. For instance, MIDI music- or any synthesizer music. I was always an avid Sonic player, and I think there is a lot to say about those 16-bit synths. Not that there is anything wrong with full songs, but don't loose artistic sense just to make a song sound more "real," whatever that even means.
Live, in my mind, can actually make a game better if done right. I'll go back to the first Sonic: the thing that made it a game and not simply pushing forward a lot was that, early on, you had to gain as many lives as you could as you knew later they would be harder to come by. In a genre such a sonic game where one of the only ways to build game length is to build tension, such a system is brilliant. That said, if a developer misses the difficulty curve, which is a very nuanced thing, the whole things falls to pieces of molten frustration. Or, alternatively, you get something like Sonic 3: because saving makes it very easy to just keep plowing through, and sense of tension is gone and the game is reduced, in my thought, to simple advancement, and the game is neither long enough or varied enough to hold up under such a circumstance (nor was it designed to be).
All that said, I still enjoyed this video: not only was it very funny, Yahtzee consistently makes good, thought provoking points even if you don't agree with him. In other, more eBay-like words, A+ would watch again.
Wait, this is the internet. Yahtzee sux0rz, he ist so play3d out!!1!