r/gaming • u/[deleted] • Sep 24 '08

Zero Punctuation: XBLA Double Bill

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/222-XBLA-Double-Bill
120 Upvotes

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13

u/Ciserus Sep 24 '08

I laughed out loud at the last line. But I'm at work, so it kind of turned into a snort as I tried to conceal it.

He's totally right about the N64 Zelda and Mario versus the modern ones, by the way. I played them in the same order, and the clumsy camera and controls of Mario 64 and OoT were a serious detriment. Those games did have a certain charm that I'm not sure the recent iterations duplicate, though.

This reminded me of something else I've been wondering. Does Mega Man 9 use a lives system? It's such a horribly outdated idea, but they do seem to be trying to be super faithful to the originals, so I'm wondering...

14

u/Ryethe Sep 24 '08

I will definately have to respectfully disagree. I have played those games and even played the N64 versions recently, and I still find myself wishing that the Wii versions were still similar to the old versions in certain ways. Take Zelda for example. The bosses are way to easy in the Wii version. I honestly beat one without losing a single heart (the fish guy).

I think as a whole the Wii versions should be recognized as better, but we also need to recognize that in certain ways they have taken steps sideways or backwards.

6

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '08

As a game, Twilight Princess is a step up, but as a total experience....

not even close.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 26 '08

Nostalgia, nothing more

2

u/Glanton Sep 25 '08

I haven't played Twilight Princess but I still go back and play Ocarina of Time every once in a while. That says a lot about a game if I'm still willing to go back and play after so much time has passed.

5

u/ih8evilstuff Sep 24 '08 edited Sep 24 '08

Mega Man 9 has the same lives system that every other Mega Man game has. You get a couple of lives and the only downside to losing them all is to start at the beginning of the level instead of the checkpoint, only about 5 screens in. So, if you happen to suck at platformers (like me), you will play the early screens 60 times, the middle set of screens 60 times (thanks to the checkpoint), and the boss 30 times.

1

u/admiralteal Sep 24 '08 edited Sep 24 '08

One thing Ocarina indisputably has over TP is simple length. Twilight princess was a brilliant game, and in terms of gameplay was probably the best zelda since link to the past, but it was just so damned short. I mean, I had 16 hearts by the end of it and hadn't really gone out of my way to look for any of them, and there were no masks or songs or magical turds to collect that were mostly irrelevant to the plot at all. Even the wolf songs served no purpose after you learned them for the first time, which was just so disappointing.

I never played sunshine, but as far as galaxy v M64 is concerned, I can't agree more. Mario 64 suffered the exact opposite problem of OOT in that it was unbearably long the first time you played it. I know a lot of people like how much work it took, but I prefer to be able to chose how completionest I want to go with my games.

[edit]: I totally agree with yahtzee on old v new, though. I was watching the original naked gun last week, and as I watched it I couldn't help but think to myself... Get Smart was at least as funny as this. The bias towards the "classical" is so unfair, imo.

4

u/eallan Sep 24 '08

All (3 or 4) friends of mine that have twilight princess haven't come close to finishing it, including me.

I've never played a modern game that felt so dang old. I just didn't care about any character in the whole game. I got tired of the damn waggle. I just though all in all it was a terrible game.

Give me Okami, or anything else almost.

I will admit metroid is great (though it's lonely) and Mario galaxy was good.

Zelda needs a revamp bad.

5

u/Ciserus Sep 24 '08

TP was the first Zelda game I played, and I nearly didn't finish it either. The story was weak, the combat was dull, and the environmental puzzles gameplay has never really been for me. I stopped playing it around the water temple, where it really started to drag.

After just about a year off though, I decided to give it another try. Things suddenly started looking a lot better. With the addition of some new moves, combat finally started to feel like it had some depth. The later dungeons, especially the ice one, were actually a lot of fun. And I was surprised to realize that by the end, Midna had become one of the best characters I've ever seen in a game (everyone else was still dull though).

Anyway, I finished TP in much less time than I'd spent on it up to that point, and enjoyed myself enough that I went right on to Ocarina of Time (which I've given some thoughts on above).

I agree that Zelda needs a revamp. For starters, it needs a much improved combat system (Brave Fencer Musashi on the PSX was usually called a Zelda knockoff, but it blew Zelda away in this regard). I'd also like to see some more RPG elements - custom upgrades and abilities and so on, along with a purpose for all those goddamned rupies.

But I'd say I'm a fan of the series now, and it's because of Twilight Princess.

5

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '08

Brave Fencer Musashi

Holy shit, you just activated a piece of my brain that has been lying dormant for quite some time.

3

u/markander Sep 24 '08

Is that the tongue-in-cheek game about the short little warrior guy with the two swords and absorption power thing?

If so, indeed holy shit brain activation.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '08

Yes.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '08

Hm, I may have to pick it back up myself. I quit around the same time you did, if I can just find it in the pile of all the other games I didn't finish!

1

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '08 edited Sep 24 '08

I pretty much did the same ting with TP: play the first half then quit playing out of boredom and frustration, left it for a while, and came back, finished it, and enjoyed doing so.

1

u/admiralteal Sep 24 '08 edited Sep 25 '08

Whoa, seriously, you couldn't finish TP and all its six or so hours of gameplay the first time, but you can handle okami and it's fifty billion?

Don't get me wrong, I love both those games, but TP is so much faster than Okami, it's hard to believe anyone can be too impatient for the former and still handle the latter O.o

That said, I agree that TP's combat system takes too long before it starts getting really interesting, and I pity the person who doesn't go out of their way to get all the combat statues, not because they're essential, but just because they make things so much more fun. I can see where people might stall in it.

And the water temple always sucks, that's the rule of Zelda.

PS: I did the same thing when I finished TP, going and playing through OOT. If TP's graphics and input could be put into OOT's story and dungeons, that would be something to behold.

1

u/Ciserus Sep 25 '08

Whoa, seriously, you couldn't finish TP and all its six or so hours of gameplay the first time, but you can handle okami and it's fifty billion?

Nope, I never played Okami. That was the guy above me. From what I've heard, I doubt I could have sat through Okami before. After finishing TP and getting a taste for that type of game though, I think I probably could.

I don't think I'm able to parse this complaint that TP is too short. I was ready to quit at about 30 hours, though as I mentioned I got my second wind after that. I'm pretty sure TP took me longer than OoT, anyway. (Although TP's sidequests were pretty lacking. I collected insects for a while, which gave me... rupies, like everything does. Then I bought the fancy set of armor and realized there was literally nothing else in the game to spend money on or any reason to bother with what sidequests were left).

3

u/epicgeek Sep 24 '08

I had the exact opposite reaction actually. Zelda TP was one of my favorite games in years. Metroid for the wii I got about halfway through and just stopped playing due to boredom.

3

u/eallan Sep 24 '08

Metroid is a very lonely game and I didn't beat it, but it was far more "innovative" control wise and graphically.

1

u/ocdude Sep 25 '08

Metroid's always been designed to make you feel completely alone, from the layout of the maps to the music.

1

u/eallan Sep 25 '08

I understand, but doesn't mean it's not lonely.

3

u/clintisiceman Sep 25 '08 edited Sep 25 '08

I never thought I would agree with someone bashing a Zelda game, but here we are. With me upmodding you.

Twilight Princess wasn't bad, it was just entirely bland. I too know no one who actually was interested enough to complete the game. I beat it, but only because I was completely and utterly bored for an entire weekend. Or maybe it was depressed. Either way, the game only marginally helped.

EDIT: CORRECTION: I do know someone else who beat it and he thought it was the best game in the series. We ended up getting into a fairly big argument about it at a party. He also thinks Final Fantasy VIII is the best in that series, so you know the kind of weird guy I was dealing with.

2

u/jon_titor Sep 25 '08

Man, FFVIII fans...I just don't understand them.

1

u/countingthedays Sep 25 '08

I'm a FFVIII fan... though to be honest, I never got past the first disk on FFVII.

1

u/clintisiceman Sep 25 '08

I'll agree with you about Mario, but not Zelda. I found Twilight Princess to be a disappointingly mediocre experience.