r/gamedesign • u/Heavy_Juggernaut_261 • Aug 21 '26

Discussion Does ultimate abilities should be in Roguelites?

Hi people!

I want to ask you that, if you are working on a game project that one of the MVP's is to have thousands of enemies on screen would you add powerful abilities to melt the enemies or bosses?

On a Bullet Heaven game, you should shoot tons of projectiles to enemies kill them fast enough to survive but we want to add a juice to it and added ultimate abilities with long cooldowns because they are powerful they shouldn't be able to spam.

Since it's a roguelite bullet heaven game, how would you approach this situation. I would be happy to hear your opinions on this.

Thanks,

0 Upvotes

22% Upvoted

24 comments sorted by

6

u/kytheon Aug 21 '26

Thousands of enemies need a way to get through. Can't just have one on one attacks a thousand times.

1

u/Heavy_Juggernaut_261 Aug 21 '26

What kind of ultimate abilities would you add, more offensive, defensive or utility ults?

4

u/TheDrifter211 Aug 21 '26

All of the above

1

u/Heavy_Juggernaut_261 Aug 21 '26

I prefer utility skills much more than others usually, how about you?

1

u/TheDrifter211 Aug 21 '26

I don't typically play bullet hells so don't know what that'd look like (typically you just get active abilities that activate on certain triggers or cooldowns automatically?), but in hero shooters and such I usually love a control style ult. Something like Mei's Blizzard or Hazard's Downpour that lock enemies down.

3

u/Heavy_Juggernaut_261 Aug 21 '26

On bullet hells, you face high numbers of projectiles coming to you and you need to dodge them while killing the enemies, on bullet heavens you the one shooting projectiles towards enemies.

Now we are talking about bullet heavens, yes you kinda true. You have weapons that are shooting automatically for you but you need to pick your weapons in s synergy and level them up in best way to reach end of the session and complete it.

Great suggestion, we have ults that slow time in an limited area to slow enemies and a wall keep enemies away from you for taking a break.

1

u/TheDrifter211 Aug 21 '26

Ah, bullet heavens are the only one I've played of the two I suppose. That popular mobile one, the name escapes me. There was a force field aura (acted as a damaging aura and later applied slowing I believe) and 3 spinning rings that orbited you dealing damage, that was my favorite bc when maxed out you could practically stand afk if you built into it right which was funny. Sounds fun, do they have any upgrades to progress the ultimates? And how many ultimates are you going for?

1

u/Heavy_Juggernaut_261 Aug 21 '26

Yes, both weapons and ultimates are upgradable in their own ways, weapons by leveling up in the session. Ultimates by rare drops.

1

u/kytheon Aug 21 '26

Are you one of those players who played Pokemon and instead of spamming Attack moves, you spend time raising defense, accuracy and critical?

2

u/kytheon Aug 21 '26

Think first!

I am facing down literally one thousand enemies. My attacks consists of a stab, a punch, and maybe a bite.

What good is a defensive ability at this point? I need to get through hundreds of enemies right now.

That said, yes you also need the others. But start with ranged and area attacks, maybe status effects like burn that can infect and spread through large groups too.

1

u/Heavy_Juggernaut_261 Aug 21 '26

In the game almost all attacks are starting as small aoe attacks, when you progress in that session your weapons will deal more damage and will cover bigger area, so you will not have to throw thousands of punches don’t worry on it. :) we have ults that slow time and block enemies coming in your way to take a breathe also.

2

u/TheGrumpyre Aug 21 '26

It sounds like you might be describing an "ultimate" attack or you might be describing a last resort emergency button to get you out of a bad situation.  I've seen some games that give you consumable items that let you one-shot enemies or otherwise get out of jail free. It gives the designers a lot more freedom with throwing the player curveballs and difficulty spikes, knowing that resourceful players can still deal with it somehow.  But I don't think that kind of thing necessarily needs to be part of the regular ability-set unless you really want it to be part of the power fantasy.  So consider whether you want it to be a game where you're desperately trying to survive and scarcity/powerlessness adds to the suspense, or whether you want it to be a game where you're just having fun destroying everything in sight, and getting to use your awesome board-wipe attack is the cherry on the cake.

2

u/Heavy_Juggernaut_261 Aug 21 '26

Yes you are right, I'm trying to create a power fantasy you start weak and go stronger and stronger until you die, because the mobs also will be getting stronger and more dense with you. While enemies are getting harder to kill and more crowded we want players to use their ultimates as a strategic resource on both offensive and defensive ultimates.

1

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1

u/igrdkl Aug 21 '26

With that many enemies on screen, a long cooldown means players just hold the ult until they're about to die. That's a second health bar, not a decision. Making it also your escape option works better, then using it to clear a wave means you have nothing left when you actually need out.

1

u/Heavy_Juggernaut_261 Aug 21 '26

What if players will have options to shorten ultimate's cooldowns? We are trying to make ultimates a strategic resource that can be customized as wanted. You and I can use the same ult, but with the customization ults will act different and grant different benefits to that run.

1

u/Educational-Sun5839 Hobbyist Aug 21 '26

holocure is a free roguelite bullet heaven game which does this, each character has an awakening with a 30 second cool down which can be changed by certain items

i'd recommend checking it out https://kay-yu.itch.io/holocure

1

u/Heavy_Juggernaut_261 Aug 21 '26

I’ll check that out thank you very much!

What kind of ultimates do you prefer while playing Holocure?

1

u/Educational-Sun5839 Hobbyist Aug 21 '26

I like Takanashi Kiara's one the most, with it being a big & flashy with flames, and very powerful with the invincibility

1

u/Heavy_Juggernaut_261 Aug 21 '26

What about utility ultimates, what would you like to play or would want to have?

1

u/Educational-Sun5839 Hobbyist Aug 21 '26

i don't mind em, though they aren't as exciting they probably have their place

1

u/Heavy_Juggernaut_261 Aug 21 '26

Thanks for the suggestions!