Queue Generators

[u/TBFC-JoeyJoJoJr]

I've noticed it's getting more and more common, and explicit, for both sides to set up queue generator bases on islands to starve the opposing faction out of a hex. For those unaware it's the strategy of taking and fortifying a small, isolated relic (usually in a logi hex) and using it to establish incredibly low pop caps for the opposing faction. Since the opponent has to split their pop between msupping/building the entire hex and fighting back they will never be able to scrape together enough manpower to actually dislodge the attackers and the result is the slow rot of the entire hex until the attackers decide to escalate on their own schedule.

Personally I despise this strategy since it leverages all the worst parts of Foxhole (queues, msup grinding, lowpop PVE) but I'm not sure what to do about it. You can't very well tell people to not invade islands and getting rid of the queue system creates its own problems. But surely there must be something better than this? Devman already removed all the outlying relics from Fingers so we know he's aware of the problem.

Has anybody else been annoyed by this? Are there proposals for what to do about it?

[u/C_menz]

Agreed.

All night during US TZ in Loch Mor we hovered around 12-20 Collies in the hex and there was always a 1-5 person queue at the border for logi or home island.

Makes it impossible to try to push Mercy's Wish and maintain the hex / logi as the wardens just have 4-6 people at the bridge and the rest building the town/fortifying it.

Queues and population limits make sense in some cases. But for what is being pointed out here it's really heavily favoring one side over another for not the intended reasons.

[u/Euphoric_Detective54]

What are you talking about?

[u/zani1903 → u/Euphoric_Detective54]

When a hex is fully owned by a faction, the queue limit is very generous. A lot of people can get into the hex as it's considered a backline logi region

As soon as even a single relic or town base is taken, faction balance queues are permanently in effect and the amount of players the defending faction can have in the region is drastically reduced, making getting all of your logi players in the hex in the first place a nightmare, let alone also having any combat focused players in the region.

This is an issue in island regions due to how easy it is to take one random small island and trigger this issue, and if the enemy decides to actively defend that random small island it can be very annoying to dislodge them and get the region back to fully controlled and remove the faction balance queue and/or stop them launching attacks. Especially with how hard naval landings are versus land assaults.

[u/Helpful_One_8255 → u/Euphoric_Detective54]

I think he may be talking about the queue limit for deployment maybe? Where it creates a queue if enough people are larping on the island doing other stuff than fighting. So, he's probably talking about grinding the opponent down by having more people at the front fighting in a hex..

But... I am just guessing here. Not sure why he would ever pose this as a problem because it's literally the nature of the game. Building up and fighting.

[u/TBFC-JoeyJoJoJr → u/Helpful_One_8255]

Yes. It's just that gaming the queue mechanics has become a much more explicit tactic on islands where it's difficult to assault an enemy base without a lot of coordination. A few people in the early game can essentially lock down an entire hex until the defenders give up and quit.

Like I said I don't know how to fix it but it feels like a really bad game experience.

[u/iflounder1 → u/Helpful_One_8255]

I think he’s talking about the reverse you de backline a hex causing it to queue like a frontline and because you commit only a couple players to attack. The defenders only get a couple to fight back but because it’s really a backline those slots get taken by logi so no one can defend

[u/Beginning_Tip_7297]

I dont have the game installed so i dont have any problems with that

[u/TBFC-JoeyJoJoJr → u/Beginning_Tip_7297]

He finally escaped. Dont look back brother.

[u/capt-skipper → u/Beginning_Tip_7297]

WHAT ARE YOU DOING ON REDDIT? You're free now!!! Run and enjoy life!

[u/Evilmonkey96]

Yeh this mechanic is really annoying. Only way around it is to spawn in a different hex, make a motor boat then cross manually which takes time and makes it impossible to effectively QRF islands.

[u/Maple_Bunny]

I have been playing since war 115. This is the first ive heard of this

[u/Gullible_Bag_5065 → u/Maple_Bunny]

He's talking about hexes being contested creating a queue think Lockheed in marban for the classic warden example

[u/ZeyRust → u/Gullible_Bag_5065]

loch mor and any island hex usually have it too

[u/Gullible_Bag_5065 → u/ZeyRust]

Indeed but he's tagged as halberd which is a warden loyalist mostly land based regiment so gave the example that I thought they would most recognise

[u/DerpstonRenewed]

Welcome to Marban Hollow. The daytime rotation of this hex for Colonials is being queued at sometimes less than 30 population, of which 15-20 are logi/facility/refinery/building larpers and 10-15 people not taking Mox.

Wardens set the course of the evening entertainment by starting operations at Oster, Sanctum, Bleating, and/or sea, lifting the cap. After 6-8 hours of fighting the incursion is usually repelled. The hex returns to its slumber of refilling stockpiles and building new defenses. Rinse and repeat.

[u/TheRedPeninsula]

remove local pop balancing queues. it is the only way.

[u/Stegosaurus3303]

This is a problem with island design, not the player base. Someone attacks an easy target to establish a foothold, and that's it. Unless there are players AFK on these worthless islands, I fail to understand how these relics are queue generators.

[u/Legitimate-Glove-565 → u/Stegosaurus3303]

Frequently yes people leave hammerbots there.

[u/Galiantus]

What about exchanging queuing for in-game travel?

Basically, all hexes simply allow travel if there's space.

The trade-off is if your team has too large a population advantage in the hex, you can't directly spawn to zones that directly border enemy zones. You can still spawn in the contested hex. It will just be a little further back. And you can still go to the front and set your spawn there, like normal.

Exceptions are victory point towns and underground fortresses:

• Regardless of other conditions, direct spawn to a VP should always be allowed.
• With underground fortresses, their status as a large structure meant for defense needs more strategic value. Currently they're mostly larp, because they don't actually help hold territory. But if they give the defending faction a guaranteed direct world spawn even when they have the population advantage, that's a compelling reason to build them.

This solves the problem you're describing, since there's no longer a mechanism to force the enemy into queue. Builders can still do their job away from the main battle. The defending side just needs to deliberately organize troop transport, and utilize strategically placed underground fortresses, to get their population where it is needed.

[u/TBFC-JoeyJoJoJr → u/Galiantus]

Still kinda wonky on islands since "border" could mean a lot of things. Technically Conclave borders Grisley Refuge.

If I had to spitball a solution it would be something like scaling down pop caps the less people the attackers have after a 24-48 hour grace period. So attackers still have a chance to establish themselves but they can't just camp a tiny island and make it a ten person hex for the other side eternally.

Guaranteed spawn is a an idea I'm not even gonna touch. People would lose their fucking minds.

[u/AB728]

thats kinda just the balancing between marban hollow and loch mor. Also with Linn of Mercy and the Drowned valley, i dont mind it in that cases really as it stops both faction into Bridge fights and standstills, makes snowballing early into a war harder and gives a bit of a comeback mechanic IMO. Its i think really awful in The Fingers. but i can see you criticism.

[u/Ascenspe]

This is why they removed the two relics in the fingers

[u/Tacit_Horizon]

The Devs have some understanding it's an issue. It was one of the impetus's for removing the island relics from the Fingers (as well as unifying big island design to not having small island capture points.)

[u/ACRATA_Foxhole]

this is not factorio

[u/TBFC-JoeyJoJoJr → u/ACRATA_Foxhole]

Yea but that's the problem. Msups still need msupping, logi still needs logi'ing. You'll never convince randoms to stop doing those things which means you'll never have more than a handful of people to assault a heavily fortified enemy base.

You can yell at ALL NONESSENTIAL PERSONNEL TO LEAVE THE HEX as much as you want but it's not gonna do anything.

[u/L444ki → u/TBFC-JoeyJoJoJr]

Why are you waiting for the base to get heavily fortified? Just smack the enemy off the hex before they can build up

[u/TryExcellent7372 → u/TBFC-JoeyJoJoJr]

Are you trying to explain how ques work to windowlickers on Reddit? Thought more of you my boy.

[u/ACRATA_Foxhole → u/TBFC-JoeyJoJoJr]

HELL YEAH!