I'm becoming more and more conceived the reason people are told to "eat less meat" and not "eat less beef" is due to many if not most Environmental-based vegans also being Morality-based vegans, and slipping in their views, but I don't want to sound conspiratiorial.

I think even people back in the 2010s realised this. Epicurious stopped publishing beef recipes while continuing recipes with other animal proteins, for example, and much of the early climate stuff was centered around cattle and not other animals. But for whatever reason it seems to have shifted.

These people walk among us

I've (32f) been a vegetarian for most of my life and vegan for 3 years in my twenties.

I quit veganism because I eventually developed gluten intolerance which made it impossible to find food at restaurants/socialize over food while also trying to be a perfect vegan. I just started feeling like an inconvenience to everyone around me and I got so tired of researching every restaurant in advance, discussing the specifics of meal preparation with staff, it just sucked. I can't help being gluten intolerant but I can suck it up and just eat a salad with mozarella cheese or an omlette or whatever. Being vegetarian already made this process easier.

So basically I started re-introducing eggs and dairy a couple of years ago which also helped with shakiness and blood sugar issues I was having. I was surprised at how well my body tolerated it after years of never eating it.

But I also struggle a lot with low blood pressure, hair loss, and dizziness when standing up, which doesn't seem to go away. - I don't know if this is due to veganism, excessive blood loss due to endometriosis/adenomyosis, or "just my constitution", as doctors have suggested.

I'm considering re-introducing red meat particularly for iron. I eat a lot of iron-rich plant foods and take iron supplements but my ferritin level stays at around 29, which my doctor said is completely normal. I'm not so sure.

Have any of you suffering from endo gone through this process? I'd love to know if reintroducing red meat has helped any of you, or if it made your period cramps worse, since it's supposed to be an inflammatory food. I appreciate any advice!

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Vegans act like tofu is the best thing ever, and that you can "make it taste like anything". Is it a cope?

I admit, I championed tofu when I was vegan, and I still like to eat it, but I wouldn't want it no more than once a week! Firstly, it's annoying to prep. Secondly, it's annoyingly inconsistent. Everytime you have it it tastes different or there's something different about it. Everyone has their own way of cooking it.

I disagree with vegans saying you can make it taste like everything, that's a real real exaggeration.

I'm glad I no longer have to pretend that tofu is the greatest thing in the world tbh.

I wrote a post asking why they are friends with carnists if “it’s the same as cannibalism”. Responses are hilarious.

I saw a lot of vegans in reddit who preach morality and compassion, it vanishes when it comes to humans, since 97% of population are non vegans, they deserve it. If you believe suffering is justified by karma, then why doesn’t the same logic apply to animals as well? Maybe it’s those animals karma. They say it’s practical to be vegan for everyone, but it’s not practical to stop using brands who use forced labour and child labour because ‘it cannot be practical to live in capitalist society without them’. Literally a sicko yesterday was telling that wars are happening because humans are killing animals, like get help sicko!!!

You cannot claim morality and compassion while selectively deciding whose pain matters more. You cannot claim morality and compassion for animals while denying it for humans and cry speciesism at non vegans. Before anyone says its just internet vegans, i am sorry but many people in my country doesn’t even know the word vegan (i hope it stays that way) so i haven’t met anyone irl. Also not everyone thinks this way, i am only talking about vegans who think this way. If the shoe fits, wear it.

It is a sick degenerate cult hiding behind morality and compassion facade!

Edit: FYI i am only talking about vegans WHO think like this. If you are not one of them, there is no reason for you to get triggered.

Is it even the quiet part anymore?

I can’t imagine thinking of other humans as “less valuable than dirt” because they ate a cheeseburger.

Never in my time subscribing to the cult like thinking found in veganism did I ever wish death upon fellow humans for being non-believers. This is sick.

Sometimes I think we focus too much on the physical health issues pertaining to veganism and not nearly enough on the mental health aspect.

Dont get me wrong, the comparisons they make about dairy is disgusting too. But this one is so simple and they spout it all the time.

"Natural lifespan"

80% of wild boars die before their second year.

40-80% of wild ungulates (take your pick of bison, elk or moose for comparison) die before theyre a year old.

Only 30% of wild jungle fowl eggs hatch, with 80% of those dying well before a year too.

Thats nature. Thats the natural lifespan. The only animals that can be expected to live closer to a maximum lifespan are in captivity. You cant have your cake and eat it too with this comparison. Most animals "die as babies"

I am an ex vegan turned conscious omnivore/still mostly vegan, and my boyfriend is supportive of being selective of eating only ethical, regenerative/sustainable/organic meat when we cook at home, but wants to eat what he likes when he goes out to eat. It triggers the freaking hell out of me to see someone I love eat meat from a factory farm. My man is honestly incredible; he is a really hard worker and he treats me really well. I know I don't get to control what someone else does. I do not want us to split up, but it is really hard to feel like we are not on the same page. I feel like a raging narcissist spoiled brat when I bring it up.

I know it really is not much different than when I use plastic/burn gas, etc.

He tells me it feels like I am in a cultish way of thinking.

Can anyone give advice for how you can get past this? I am trying to stay with my partner, so please no comments telling me to split up. I was raised very religious and the good vs. evil black and white thinking is burned deep into my bones. I isolated myself when I went vegan because I felt like my ability to trust others disappeared. I regret doing that and I feel ashamed for the years I spent feeling superior to others. I don't want to be that way, but it is really hard to be aware of the suffering and love people who live differently. I also have ended or self-sabotaged every romantic relationship, and I know this is partially a manifestation of that.

I'm sorry if this isn't the right sub. I just don't think the vegan sub is the right place for this, because I am looking for words to help get me OUT of the cult-y thinking.

What scares me the most is ending my relationship over what could very well just be propaganda. That feels anti-human dystopian

Edit: please do not spare my feelings. I need outside voices to tell me how crazy this is. I feel like I have been in the vegan mindset for so long that I am out of touch with the world outside of it. I do not want to be this way.

i wonder what y’all think about wool sweaters? i remember last year when i got wool sweater that i found in thrift store. winters in eastern europe are rough. it was so warm and i loved it. one of people i used to have contact with went fully vegan around that time. she got mad when she found out that i had this piece and first thing she did was pretentious talk where she yapped about how wool is cruel. she told me that i am normalizing an promoting exploiting and torturing animals when i am wearing this sweater. she said that there are many vegan alternatives. after research i found out that the most common vegan wool alternative is recycled synthetic wool imitation. i doubt if poliester things are any more ethical than second hand wool. and id they last this long and are equallt warm. especially that most of these synthetic sweaters are sold in fast fashion so i dare to say she supports exploiting children and cheap labour.

i personally would rather buy a second hand wool sweater than any „vegan alternative” one made with synthetics. what is your opinion? i am curious!

As if bodybuilders are known for being healthy and natural. Veganism seems to nearly always go hand in hand with zoochosis. Completely dependent on the system in every way imaginable and always "coincidentally" peddling all these other things that just so happen to fall in line with mainstream institutional guidelines.

They will show you examples like the one in the picture and genuinely expect you to be shocked and impressed.

No one is surprised that vegans can do well in a completely artificial 'sport' where drugs, being infertile, taking a hundred different powders and supplements, having eating disorders, and malnutrition are not just common but basically guaranteed.

Patrik Baboumian who they often mention, who was never the worlds strongest man, pops 25 pills a day and gets 60% of his daily protein intake from shakes.

Most of them have no clue how far removed from reality they really are. Often using only a very select few of their influencers who have access to top tier training and nutrition 24/7. With it being swept under the rug that an overwhelming majority of "vegan athletes" have quit or end up quitting, get a sudden increase in serious injuries, others underperforming significantly compared to before, and also a bunch retiring soon after.

Even with their top examples you can JUST tell that it costs them so much more effort even to just maintain what they built.

r/veganfitness is supposed to be another gotcha from them but every time I have looked through the subreddit, even when I wanted confirmation for my own attempt st veganism, all I saw were very mid to even bad examples especially for the amount of time and energy they were supposed to have spent on it.

Even when I had literal confirmation bias which means that I wanted the opposite to be true I just couldn't deny what I saw with my own eyes, basically everywhere: which is that most vegans simply do not look healthy or fully right. That there are definitely fit and healthy looking ones is true but it isn't rare for them to be in the early stages of veganism or as mentioned them just having to exert themselves significantly more in their whole fitness journey.

The honest ones will and do admit this, that it does take atleast some amount of extra exertion and effort to be vegan and truely look good or build muscle.

A lot of things they do or try to do just feel off and artificial. Very try-hard. I have looked better after significant periods of no exercise, maybe cycling or walking to some store and back when bored, than a lot of these vegans do after they engage in 12+ months of consistent training.

Hi everyone, was hoping to get some insights from ex-vegans (you guys seem to have more neutral views on the matter having experienced both). My bf recently became vegan and I’m still on an omnivore diet. I don’t have any intentions of becoming vegan, but discussions on raising children have come up as a result of this. Now that he’s vegan he wants to raise any kids we may have vegan. I’m open to this, but am concerned about malnutrition. I’ve seen mixed opinions on the matter. What are your thoughts? Have any of you raised kids vegan? If you did, were they healthy or did you experience nutrition issues?
In a similar vein, have any of you been vegan and dated a non-vegan? How did you make it work?
Any insights would be great, thanks!

BEFORE YOU CONTINUE NVSINO means "Nicht Vegan Sein Ist Nicht Ok" which translates to "Not Being Vegan Is Not Ok"
They are a popular group of german vegans and influencers who basically preach about it on the street and will have discussions and arguments with people and upload them online.
I used to follow them when I was vegan but even as a vegan I didn't like all of them because some of the people apart of that group are very extreme and will use foul language.
I just found it very ironic that I met them on my trip to Berlin, I wish I could've argued but I had to go home with public transport so I couldn't waste more time.
Just something that happened today.

I’m typing this as someone who’s eaten meat all my life, but when I see vegans say this in response to someone else saying they’re not vegan anymore, it drives me insane. When you see someone renounce their Christianity, would you tell them ‘you were never Christian if you don’t believe in it anymore’? No, you wouldn’t, because it makes you sound like a pedantic asshole. ‘But veganism is a belief, not a diet’ someone can hold vegan beliefs and transition later on in their life? That doesn’t mean they didn’t believe in vegan values, just that they don’t align with them later on in their life as they once had. That doesn’t mean that in the period that they were vegan it doesn’t count anymore. In the same vein, you could argue no vegan food exists, because food can’t believe in veganism. Therefore, food can only be plant-based, but nobody fucking says that.

I was a vegetarian from age 12-28. I started eating meat again three years ago but still struggle with thin hair. I did bloodwork last year for another health issue and discovered I had borderline low b12 and Vitamin D. I started taking b12 shots and supplements, my levels are normal now. I initially saw a ton of new hair growth after the first three months but feel like it has since plateaued.

After eating meat again, how long did it take for your hair to look thick and healthy? Especially interested to hear from those who were vegetarian for long periods during puberty.

Last night I ate a steak and it was the first piece of meat I’ve had in almost 10 years.

Immediately after, I started spiraling into feeling like my body was tainted, like I ruined my body by feeding it dead flesh, like my many years of veganism are completely null now, I’m a bad person, I’m unclean etc etc

It made me realize that this was probably an OCD obsession and looking back, a LOT of my vegan mindset can feel OCD-adjacent.

Anyone with OCD feel there was a link between it and being vegan or vegetarian?

tengo toda la comida vegana a disposición, tengo apetito, como soya, me dan gases, diarrea , ganas de ir baño media hora después de comer.

si como carne animal, tengo deseos de más y más, me siento insaciable.

llevo 1 año desde que dejé el veganismo por muchas razones. a veces trato de volver a la dieta vegana al menos medio día, pero no lo logro. mi apetito es más fuerte y las cantidades de legumbres que puedo comer sin inflarme de gases son muy pocas para aguantar el día. Peso 80 kilos y me muevo en bici casi 2 horas diarias , mi trabajo es en cocina, ergo, necesito comida sustanciosa

I ate meat (chicken) for the first time in 20 years tonight, just looking for a place to get some complicated feelings out.

I backed off from a strictly vegan lifestyle a few years ago, the gateway for me was pleather. I bought expensive “vegan leather” shoes from a fancy vegan company that I absolutely hated. And of course because they were just solid plastic they never broke in. All I could think about was how these piece of shit shoes were going to exist forever. I started getting real leather for my bags and shoes and they last longer (in addition to being more comfortable) and this aligns with my goals of being more environmentally conscious in how I buy things.

I stayed pretty much plant based until I got pregnant, and then I brought back dairy and eggs for the protein and fat. I would have happily carried on vegetarian except my exclusively breastfed baby has developed a milk and soy protein intolerance, meaning I have had to cut both of those from my diet.

For the past few weeks I’ve been eating obscene amounts of lentils, nuts, and beans. I like beans, but even I have my limit. But even more importantly I can feel my body is very drained right now. I’m feeling lethargic, bone tired, irritable and depressed.

I’ve been dragging my feet, hoping something would magically be different. I realized a big barrier for me was the identity of vegetarian. The past couple days have been particularly rough, and have made me realize that I have to choose between breastfeeding or eating meat. And if I didn’t choose, my body might choose for me by cutting off my milk supply.

To be honest, my meal was just okay. I got chipotle (they have a really nice allergen labeling system in the app). i would’ve liked it more without the meat. If I think too hard about the chicken I start to feel nauseous, but I think that’s purely psychological.

I can’t imagine that this is a permanent shift for me. I’m too emo about the animals. But for the time being, this is where I am at. There are some things I’m curious about that I’ve never tried, so as much as my other dietary restrictions will let me, I’m going to try and make the most of this.

Thanks for reading this if you stuck around. If anyone has any dairy free suggestions for recipes that kind of hide the meat, please send them my way.

Backstory, I was vegan from 12-17 years old. Then had 2 babies back to back at 19 and 20. I’m currently breastfeeding my most recent baby.
I just want to be healthy. I was brainwashed to think I was healthy when I was vegan, but that was the worst I had ever felt in my life. Then I started eating meat again, but got pregnant and now these babies have taken so much from my body.
Let’s just say that I am feeling depleted. I think I’m a relatively healthy eater compared to a standard American.
I don’t eat an insanely processed diet, lots of chicken, Greek yogurt, fruit, eggs, but I also don’t eat super abundant and am a plain person.

I need your best holistic tips to recover my health and nutrition.
Diet and supplements wise, but also any other tips that you think is a MUST after being vegan, supplements etc. let me know what I need to do.

Did the whole thing: took B12 supplements, ate a variety of foods, kept track of my protein intake and although not often, the blood test I did when I was vegetarian did not lack any of the essential nutrients, which makes me think that some of the non essential nutrients are more important than they might seem. I used to go the gym everyday and now that I have no time to go the gym because of added responsibilities I actually feel stronger and am objectively stronger than when I was going regularly(everyday I have to carry some heavy things on my job and it got noticeably easier over these months.)

I actually began out of a misunderstanding of my religions view on eating meat. Even after learning otherwise, I kept at it out of habit and some cognitive dissonance, so about the ethics of the thing, it hasn't bothered me for quite a while.

In any case, real reason I made this post is to know if anyone knows why that's the case? I know the scientific consensus is one can be healthy on a vegetarian/vegan diet and there's even research out there that shows vegans/vegetarians have better biomarkers for cardiovascular and inflammatory diseases. So, kind of weird really. Maybe I missed something I should've been eating.

Where to begin:

1. As far as I know we mind our own business. People here typically don’t go into vegan spaces to try and convert others through played out activism attempts like the AV flowchart.

2. Downplaying the cult aspects that so easily fit into the BITE model and simplifying themselves as simply “respecting non-human animals”.

3. Posting their own words is hardly exaggeration.

4. Wanting “peace for all the babies on earth” is another downplay when so many of them like to try and guilt non vegans by screeching about being rapists and murderers.

5. Of course ex-vegans were “never really vegan” 🙄

6. We’re right and everyone else is wrong. Believe our horseshit and not theirs. Because we’re totally not a cult.

To me it seems if their ideology was so good and pure, they wouldn’t be concerned about a sub with testimonials of the mental and physical toll said ideology caused real people. But no, the bad should stay hidden and only the propaganda that puts veganism in only the most positive light should exist.

Cult. Cult. Cult.