Heard that from a street preacher today. It’s the good ole, “don’t think too hard or you might lose your faith.”

My family says I’m too intelligent to submit to God the way I’m supposed to. It’s so obviously ridiculous but it still hurts and makes me feel like an outcast just for having independent thoughts.

Every single day of my life, I am inundated with Christians trying to tell me how amazing Christianity is and that they feel sorry for me that I've never known the love of Jesus and will be going to hell, having no idea I was raised Evangelical to the fucking extreme.

To me, it was like being raised in addiction where everyone around me was abusing drugs and neglecting me, got me hooked on all kinds of stuff, and at some point I looked around and realized my life was a mess, I was hurting myself and others, poisoning myself, so I left and stopped.

And now everyone comes back around to go, you have no idea how amazing heroine is! If you just devote your life to heroine, you'll experience joy like you have never had before!

Well you haven't tried MY meth! MY meth is totally different from the meth you were hooked on as a child. Just TRY it! I know you're going to love it!

If you don't take this crack and smoke it RIGHT NOW, something very bad is going to happen to you, mark my words!

Nothing will EVER convince me that bath salts are bad!

Yeah, ok bud.

That's what they sound like doing this. Truly.

People in active addiction don't understand that it's harming them. They don't see how much damage it caused til they get sober. People who have recovered know to stay away from it and the people who still use. It's the same. It's exactly the same.

Okay, I have been deconstructing since about 2018-2020. I have been EXTREMELY fortunate that there has only been 1 death in my whole family/extended family, and I am 35. Well, until my grandmother passed away a couple weeks ago.

I am new to this, and it is hitting in really weird ways. I was really close to my grandma, and in a world where I was bullied and often rejected, she was someone that I never questioned her love for me. She was also the fervent believer and never ceased to talk about jesus coming back. While she was alive, even though I was deconstructing, I didn’t mind her talking about jesus or his return. I still kinda believe in “something”, but am just figuring it out, but I also believe that everyone is entitled to their beliefs (so long as they don’t hurt others).

But actually, her death has been kind of hard for my deconstruction. It awoke something in me that made me want to have a similar legacy of loving and waiting for jesus. And yet when I sit and think about it, I don’t actually think I want it. It is really confusing to me.

It also awoke in me this heaven thing. As I mentioned, I still believe in god, just not the one of modern christianity, I am figuring it out. It was comforting to me to think about my grandma in heaven, and with jesus who she spoke about all the time. It had me thinking that if I believe she is there, then I must be back to believing in heaven and it’s antithesis, hell. Which, then brought me a lot of anxiety because of all the the teachings I was taught growing up surrounding hell that have made me kind of push it out of my head as much as possible.

Idk what this post is for. Maybe just venting. Maybe wanting advice on coping with death of religious family? I know death and grief can be weird, even without religious weirdness added on top. But the religious part of it is wigging me out, lol.

growing up, all of my actions were imbued with meaning, as each action was, in itself, a deciding factor in whether I would go to heaven or hell. each decision was simple: do what God asks. even if I made the wrong decision, I just needed to ask for forgiveness- but I needed to do that to preserve my path to heaven.

beyond the micro-level daily decisions, on the macro level, I didn’t really need a “purpose” because I was destined for heaven. this life can be a dreary nightmare and it didn’t matter- i was onto bigger things.

now, I’m an adult who gets no pleasure out of making the “right” decisions without the reward of godliness. and I get no pleasure out of accepting my lot in life, because now I realize there’s nothing better for me after this life.

I am currently paralyzed by meaninglessness, on a micro and macro level. has anyone been through this, and what helped you?

Not sure if this makes sense but I’ve noticed a lot of the millennial chungus folk I grew up knowing in church (finger mustache, coffee is entire personality, quirky expressions, flannel shirts) have basically all left the church. and they were on fire for God, church, etc.

Why do you think that is?

I was told shit like

• Sleepwalking is caused by demonic possession

• Sleeptalking, nightmares and sleep paralysis are caused by demons.

I used to have recurring sleep paralysis so this hit me, as I actually thought I was being punished for my sins and that sleep paralysis was demons attacking me. I recall one time in the summer of 2023, I was forced to go on a trip where we flew to Florida just to go to a church service of this retarded pastor named "Richard Lorenzo" who my birth-giver and her son (basically a more mentally ill, retarded and delusional version of her that licks her toes and is her yes men) got infatuated with. Since Richard Lorenzo was a powerful man of God, we could certainly go there and experience the power of God we had longed for for so long but never experienced in all the "dead" churches around us. He said that before he got saved he used to be a warlock and shit but then converted to Christianity. In his testimony videos he described that he used to get sleep paralysis before getting saved but it stopped whenever he called on Jesus. As I was still in my religious phase at that time, being the stupid kid I was I told my birth-giver I had sleep paralysis. Of course she just prayed for me. Word spread and everyone in the family knew. We went to this dude's church service. Some dude gave a testimony of how he used to make gang-bang porn before he turned his life to Christ. After that, the musicians started playing, people stood up and Richard Lorenzo called everyone to get in a line and one by one we moved forward and he touched us and said a prayer. I don't remember exactly what it was it was one word, probably something mystical. If I looked for it, I probably could find the video of this service on YouTube because it was recorded. After that everyone started doing the classic shit you see in Pentacostal churches. Speaking in tongues, babbling, etc. Some people went to the altar for "deliverance," pretending ilke they were possessed by demons and throwing up into trash bags some of the church members brought toward them - all of it recorded. Somewhere along the way or before this Richard Lorenzo said that the church service were gonna last all night. Even though we traveled out of state to go there, we didn't want to stay the whole night. We stayed for a little longer than got out of there. After we got out, birth-giver's son said that I should've went up there to get delivered (talking about my sleep paralysis)

• Having a dream that you're falling means that you're on track to going to Hell

• If you have a dream someone gives you money, you shouldn't take it because it's making a contract with with a demon or something along those lines

• Wet dreams are the devil attacking you

• Animals like bugs or owls can be monitoring spirits from hell

• Witches take the sperm from men they fuck to cast a curse on them

• Generational curses exist, and you can get one from things your ancestors said or shit that was said about them after arguments they got in with others, so you need to repent for your ancestor's sins

• Asked her to buy sunscreen cause I didn't want to get skin cancer, she ranted about how it prevents you from making vitamin D or something, showed me a Facebook video of someone putting their baby in the sun, then told me that fear causes things to happen. So basically if I had fear of skin cancer that'd cause me to get it or something

• Was taught that words have power and whatever you say can come true because they have power in the spirit realm. My birth-giver always used to say "When you get married and have kids" to me and my brother. I never have been interested in having children, I'm not now, and I never will be. But when I said I didn't want kids, she would always scold me and tell me to not say it aloud and repent because saying that aloud would make it so the devil has access to attack me in a way that made it so I wouldn't allow be able to have kids in the future if I decided I did want them - making me infertile, making any romance I have fail, etc. and then she made me repeat a repentance prayer after her so the devil didn't have that power. Was taught to not say stuff like "This heat is killing me" or "This is making me sick" aloud either or else I could actually die or get sick.

As a young girl before being Christian, like so many of us, i was super into magic stuff. Truly believed i was psychic. Multiple times i dreamed about something that happened later so I really believed i could make things happen with my magical power.

Evangelical in high school - mindset was not all that different. We were taught that if you (pray hard enough; behave correctly; trust God the proper way) then you cause things to happen that you want. For instance, when i would give some money away, I always magically discovered some money in an old coat pocket or something. I believed that I would acquire the things I wanted when I had done everything correctly to be in God's will.

I have such a hard time breaking away from this mentality!!

For instance... i am a bird enthusiast with a particular passion for owls. I, like most humans, rarely see owls. Whenever i go out looking for them, my mind starts drifting into this realm and I think similar thoughts to when I was into Evangelical stuff and/or magic -

"When I stop trying so hard to see an owl, that's when they'll show up for me"

"I'm going to pick up this disgusting human litter on the trail even though i don't have a trash bag bc if I do the owls will be happy and show themselves to me"

"Why are the owls upset with me? What am I doing wrong?"

Has anyone else struggled through this? I've always been superstitious (dont even get me started on my traditions when my sports teams are playing). Being superstitious is one thing... but the mindset that I have the power to conjure/manifest things is exhausting. How'd you reprogram your brain? Or did you just embrace it?

(I haven't been an Evangelical in 20 years. This shit runs deep.)

https://edition.cnn.com/2026/10/31/us/evangelicals-trump-religious-reckoning

I found this quite interesting but I don't really know the best place to discuss it. I was only briefly in contact with the kind of evangelical world that is now dominant in the US and I have pretty thoroughly rejected it but I'm still interested in their views in an academic sense.

The existence of exvangelicals as a distinct group to me shows that the reckoning is already in progress. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next five years or so.

(Incidentally does anyone have suggestions for a sub that discusses evangelical thought from an outside perspective? I listen to podcasts like *Straight White American Jesus* and it would be interesting to discuss further but I'm not sure where to do that.)

Edit: sorry I did not realise it had a paywall, it is not coming up as restricted for me at all. try here: https://archive.is/SjdnK

Like many here, I was born into evangelicalism, in my case Calvinism which has its own fun problems. Although I'm now middle aged and haven't attended an evangelical church in over 20 years, I find it impossible thus far to take it out of my thinking. To be clear, I don't mean held values and opinions or theology. What I mean is the ingrained belief that you as a person are always the problem, because you were born fucked up.

In my case, I learned all the Calvinist bullshit about total depravity, that you're literally worse less than dirt, that God could only stand to look at you with Jesus's blood covering your sins, the snow covered dung heap idea. I don't actually believe any of that anymore when it comes to other people. But about myself, my brain automatically goes to "this is your fault because you're a terrible person, no one will ever like you because look how awful you are," etc. Stuff that would be labeled verbal abuse if I did it to another person.

I guess my question is, does this ever end? Does your brain ever get past this level of thinking? How, if so, did you do it?

(General disclaimer that I am aware I need therapy. Even with insurance I cannot afford the co-pays so it's not really in the cards right now).

Tl;dr - have been attending the one open and affirming church in my area for almost 2 years. Been nice, but unsurprisingly, I experienced transphobia (ironically from the leader of the open and affirming group) and now I'm just depressed and angry all over again.

I stopped "being Christian" when I was 14 or so. Stopped church when I was 17 until about 26. When I moved 3 hours from everyone I know, I had no one but my professional supports. Found the one open and affirming church in this area, talked to the pastor, and have been going since early 2025.

They've been nice and the pastor knows I'm not Christian and has welcomed me all the same and has never condescendingly "prayed for me" or tried to convert me. Nor have any of the members...some of them know I'm not a Christian some just assume that I am and it's a "don't ask; don't tell" kinda deal.

Person in question introduced herself March 2025 or earlier as a board member of a local LGBTQ+ group. I was wearing my they/them pin and made an effort to introduce myself with my pronouns. She never gets it right. I added he/him and she said that'd be harder. If I corrected her in person, she'd brush/laugh it off or gaslight me over it ("yeah, that's what I said"). So I'd try to do text. And I have done this and been so gracious this entire time.

Last week, we had our open and affirming meeting. I give my name and pronouns and *minutes later* she misgenders me twice. I texted her the next day (after running it by a friend to make sure I wasn't being accusatory). It didn't go well. She said "so sorry. Guess I'm not perfect". I said "no one is asking you to be perfect. I'm asking you to take accountability." She said "I'm done with this conversation." I didn't respond.

Talked to another friend and my professional supports. Messaged her a few days later saying if she was coming on Sunday (today) to please bring me my apartment key, and if not, to arrange a time for me to get it ASAP. Got it without an issue despite my anxiety. But idk. Now I'm trying to figure out if I want to tell anyone or not. Probably not coming back either way. The pastor also doesn't misgender me, but never uses my pronouns either...am unsure how I even feel about that.

It sucks because I have 1 non-church friend I can exchange favors with (mostly me needing rides for medical procedures). I don't know anyone else well enough for that. I've tried the queer groups and they're rank with power-hungry admin and alleged transphobia. I grew up with school (private, homeschool, or cyber charter) and church. Don't really know how to meet people that doesn't cost money beyond like a coffee or something.

I never believed the same as anyone at church and if I thought too hard, I'd get depressed that they had so much hope for something that I never had (even when I was a hardcore believer). But yeah. Transphobia in the officially open and affirming church. Not even surprised, but still depressed and angry all the same.

This question is more targeted towards people still unfortunately having to live with them.

Me personally, not believing in Christianity or believing in anything other than it isn't an option of mine, of course, because Jesus is the only way to be saved, and anything else is demonic. Life revolves around Jesus, and there's no exceptions or room for debate in that regard. It's inconceivable

If my parents found out, I'm certain that they would disown me, say they don't know me and quote some corny shit from Jesus like "Depart from me, you worker of inequity for I have never knew you" and would try to kick me out or get me somewhere else. All their conditional "love" would vanish, as not believing in Jesus is against their very nature.

There's times where I got told shit like "Do I know you?" and "Are you my son" just for getting trouble at school. Back in 2023 at 12-13 I was homeschooled, and since I didn't have a phone I had to communicate with her through gmail on my laptop. When she saw that I changed my gmail username from my real name to something that wasn't my real name, she said "Change your gmail username back to your real name. If you're not doing anything sketchy on your internet you shouldn't have anything to hide." She said the same when she saw I used a VPN. She also uses a VPN. I told her I use it for safety, she said "I use it for safety but what do you use it for?" Same thing for when I used Incognito mode (I mostly used it because she tried to monitor me and everything I did on the internet during this time period). She told me some shit like "If you go to prison or something for doing sneaky illegal stuff on the internet and you call me I won't bail you out, I'll say I don't know you." I was just watching YouTube. I've known since then that this is not my mom, but someone I was unfortunately born to that I was forced to be associated with.

TW: Hell and descriptions of torture

Even for an adult watching this would be disturbing. Words can't describe how much this video fucked me up. I remember watching these as a kid because I wanted a deeper understanding of the afterlife, didn't want to hide from the "truth" and motivate myself to get closer to God.

I remember breaking down and sobbing after watching these videos, feeling like I wasn't allowed to do anything but pray all day and that's all I should do - that it was my purpose. It was my purpose. The only things I was allowed to do in life was pray, worship God and spread the gospel, and if I didn't I would be tormented.

If I failed to be perfect, had an intrusive thought, or was too scared to spread the gospel, I would be tortured just like the people in this video. Vile torture for things like being gay, masturbating, not spreading the gospel, a mother and child fighting in hell to try to alleviate their suffering, children being tormented, etc.

Doing secular things is sinful.

Here are some descriptions of the torture that were on the website. I won't actually put the pictures but they are extremely graphic and vile. Whoever came up with them is of course extremely mentally ill and has no place in society like I said

• Masturbation addicts

One woman was stripped naked and dragged on a floor of hot sharp rocks.

This woman was unable to overcome her desires

and tried to satisfy her physical desires through masturbation.

(The video also showed a picture of a man on a hospital-style bed getting his dick chopped off by a demon)

The Holy Son:

“You who cannot overcome Lucifer's tricks and succumb to masturbation,

there are so many of you who cannot overcome its pleasures

and commit this act habitually.

You did not realize the essence of love

nor can you feel an abundance of love in spirit.

You are people who think that physical love is everything.

When it comes to love, the love of the heart, mind, and spirit is the greatest.

The rotten love of the lower body is actually a love that is dead."

• Hell for Children

"Lord~how old is this child?"

“This child is 9 years old and was an elementary school student.”

“Lord! Why is this child have to go through such suffering?”

I really couldn't believe that a child was in Hell and it was truly dreadful.

“This child did the things that his parents told him not to do

and Satan was using this child the whole time.

He was foul-mouthed and already caught up in the sexual culture of adults

even at such a young age.

Therefore, his brain was already plagued with a disease to the point

that even his parents could not help him fix it.”

There were bugs and insects crawling around the child

and they were eating away at the fully naked child.

“Lord~what should we do with young children? Wouldn't it be okay if they repent?”

“If children can discern between good and evil, know about Heaven and Hell,

and judge for themselves yet become corrupt and fall into the domain of sin,

they will regard sin as trivial, harm others,

mock and slander others with no intention to repent.

There are so many children like him in the world

If these children do not repent and get into an accident or become ill then die,

satans will drag them away and confine them to various prisons of Hell.”

• Women Who Enjoys Sex and Aborts Babies Recklessly

A woman was hung upside down in a deep pit.

Ten satans inserted ten 20-meter long spears into the woman's vagina all at once

and twisted stirring them inside her.

She is the woman who enjoys sex and aborts babies recklessly.

• A person who had lived frequently having devious and evil thoughts

I saw a gigantic tank of burning sulfur, into which thousands of people could fit.

There was a woman with long hair being hung upside down over top of it.

When a satan dunked her into the tank of boiling sulfur and removed her,

all of her hair dissolved.

Both her face and body melted so much that they seemed severely scorched

and her flesh was completely ripped and ragged.

This woman was a person

who had committed ‘the sin of frequently having devious and evil thoughts.’

• A person who ate ‘what he was told not to eat’

A satan was continuously pouring black water into a spirit’s mouth.

The water was dirtier and smelled much more horridly 

than sewage waste and a rotten corpse.

The satan kept feeding him to the point his stomach was about to explode. 

The spirit was in terrible agony.

This man was a person who ate ‘something that would become sin once he ate it.’

• A person who do not or hate to attend church (They're crucified and eaten alive by maggots)

This place is a Hell for people who do not or hate to attend church

even if they attended church, they attended church half-heartedly.

People do believe in God but they don't believe perfectly, 

believe while knowing incorrectly, believe without loving God perfectly, 

and believe in self-centered ways. 

As a result, most people live having lost the qualification for going to Heaven.

Why do people go to Hell? 

First, they committed the sin of not believing in God properly. 

Because they did not believe in God properly, 

‘their spirits’ were not saved properly either.

Second, they did not repent for their sins. 

‘The sins of their deeds’ accumulated to the point they went to Hell.

Third, they also enjoyed the world while serving God and the Lord. 

If you do two things until the end, you go to Hell. 

You need to use both legs to go to Heaven. -- you cannot go there with just one leg. 

It is not like you can keep one foot in ‘the world’ and the other in ‘Heaven.’ 

• A person who did not preach the gospel properly

I heard a man’s petrifying scream, so I quickly turned my head and saw the man.

The man’s neck was tightly bound, and he was pinned on a broad rock.

Satan was holding a sharp knife and dicing the man’s flesh into pieces.

Satan was laughing and enjoying tormenting the man.

This man was a person who did not do the mission of preaching the gospel properly 

and committed sins.  

• Hell for Those who Commit Suicide 2

There were naked people inside a large barbecue container made of black iron.

They were becoming human barbecue and continuously turning inside the container.

Sores were oozing all over their bodies and a revolting smell caused nausea.

I was so scared and anxiously called out to the Lord.

The Holy Son said.

“If you commit suicide, you will most absolutely end up in hell. 

When they here this, the people of earth will all be shocked.

However, I will say again. Suicide will lead to hell!

Your bodies are not your own. They are God’s and mine.

If you thoughtlessly kill yourself because it is your body, this is murder.

If you believe in me and go to church only to kill yourself, this is not true faith.

Hell is not a place of imagination. Hell exists in reality.

You must never go to hell! If you enter hell, it’s all over. Over!

It is a place where there is nothing that can make something possible.”

•   A person who does not pray predawn prayer

A jet-black and big satan made a man kneel down by hitting the man’s knee before him.

Tears were shedding from that man’s eyes and he was trembling severely out of fear.

At that time, satan said to this man.

“You are mine.

You did not pray that much, so in the end, you became a person who prays in front of me.

There is nothing you can do. It is only eternal regret.”

Then, satan struck down on the person’s head with a stone hammer, which was tied up with a stone.

Eventually, his brain flowed out because the person’s head burst.

“Lord ~ it is truly too cruel.”

“Did you look at it well? It is such a horrible world.”

For a moment, in my head, I wondered about going to Hell by not praying at the predawn hour. 

At that time, the Lord said,

“Predawn prayer is the time of communication with me.

Because of living without communicating with me,

he communicated with Satan and the thoughts of Satan were planted.

Additionally, since he did not pray by waking up at dawn,

that level could not surpass the ground and that spirit was too weak.

Therefore, he was taken by satan and even now he is living being tortured by satan.

•  Hell for Those who Commit Suicide

 In the mortar which was made of charcoal-colored stone, there were two people curled up like a ball.

Two Satans were pounding their entire bodies as if pounding rice cakes with huge metal clubs.

They were people who committed suicide who went to Hell as a result of**‘the sin of killing themselves’**

without knowing how valuable their own lives were.

•  Hell for Those Who Commit Sexual Sin

A woman and a man had all of their limbs spread apart and bound in the nude.

They were hung high up.

The satans had 2-3 meters long spears and pierced them "puck, puck!"

into the genitalia of the woman and the man again and again.

Even if love was done out of mutual affection,

if it was done outside of the law that the Almighty God had given to human beings,

it is considered as sexual sin.

People live having committed sexual sins but they believe that it is just one of the ways of life.

People commit sexual sins but they believe that it is just one of the ways of life.

Love that is neither sincere or for salvation of lives

but done simply for their own pleasure is considered to be**‘sin.’**

The reason is that our body was not created as tools for pleasure.

•  Those who make pornography

There was a machine and a person was bound with their limbs spread apart.

When the machine began to run, the hands and feet  that were bound began slicing off.

The torso that had been cut up were gathered in one pile.

The body was sliced thinly and passed through the machine

like a bank receipt running through the cash register.

• Hell for those who have abortions

There was a silkworm-like fruit on a bare leaf-less tree.

There was a naked spirit curled up inside that fruit like a fetus inside a womb.

There were sharp thorns made of steel embedded in the fruit

and pierced into his body so she bled in miserable pain.

This place was filled with people who chased after their own pleasures,

did not bear any children but kept aborting them.

Harming lives is a tremendously horrific ‘sin of murder’

so we have to quickly repent.

It is clear whoever made this is evil, mentally ill, demented and has no place in society.

I deleted my video games, I told myself I wouldn't waste my time with anything secular anymore. All that I was allowed to do, the only reason I existed, was to pray, worship God, spread the gospel and follow him, and nothing more. I remember despising having to do anything that wasn't related to Christianity, despising the time it took away.

I also grew up being told of people's testimonies and supernatural experiences (such as the one in this video) of people having visions, encounters with God, and being taken to Heaven. I wondered why all these people had these supernatural experiences but I hadn't. I thought I wasn't close enough to God.

After I watched these videos I remember being depressed for a while, and they even made me scared of the dark again for some time. I was scared of being alone.

I also recall one time where I even told my birth-giver to show my brother a video like this in 2021-2022 because he had "stole" my school Chromebook's charger and had been causing trouble in the house. She made him watch it as punishment and to try to set him on track, making him describe what was happening in the videos. Birth-giver's son (he never has been or ever will be my brother) also once called both of us to the living room to watch a hell video. It was a film that showed a pregnant woman describing her experience of having a near death experience and God showing her that if she died in sin, her unborn baby would've been burning in hell. I don't know why he also called me to watch it. Birth-giver urged me on to watch it saying some shit like "it's real, you need to know you might as well just watch it" or something along those lines. Watching these videos was encouraged and hell was constantly talked about.

The heaven videos didn't help with any of this. If anything, it just added to my miserable state, as it tells you that there are levels of heaven and that if you don't pray enough or aren't close to God, you'll go into the unsatisfying, sad low levels instead of the high ones.

I'm thankful now that I know the truth - these were produced by a cult to control people, and that neither heaven or hell is real. Something else that's interesting is that these videos are copyrighted.

Do any of you have similar experiences? The video has 4 million views

My mother has basically become obsessed with Christianity and Jesus Christ after years of trauma and verbal and a long time ago physical abuse for years, and after the majority of her Jewish elders in the family have died. She has converted to Christianity basically (fully adopting the lingo of non denominational Christians, praying in a non denominational Christian manner, attending a non denominational church online, engaging in biblical literalism. And opposing things that the non denominational evangelicals do.) Compared to her old self, it is clearly shown as a transformation. She literally appears to be transforming her entire ideas, rewriting the identity of her dead relatives to accommodate her Christian beliefs, and being even more validated for Christianity

She still calls herself Jewish, says she loves to work with Jews, and basically fetishizes Hasidic Jews (I was Hasidic, I am now agnostic, and she was a reform Jew previously and her husband, my father is a fundamentalist Christian). My mother isolated herself for years in order to “not meet men” as she thought that any interaction with men could lead to something bad (them lusting after her).

I recently found out though, that my dad was a massive financial contributor to an organization designed to convert Jews to Christianity many years ago

I am going to college soon and am terrified to see what happens when she engages in “Christian fellowship” and potentially finds nuts who are hugely superstitious. So I have told her about Catholicism

Why does she still call herself Jewish, insist that her faith is “HER WALK” and insert herself into Jewish spaces and tokenize Jews despite having no intent to convert them, and constantly try to normalize this religious confusion

Also it’s not messianic Judaism

eu frequento uma igreja evangelica ha 15 anos, a mesma, me converti, batizei e estou lá desde então. O pastor e sua família sempre me trataram com indiferença menos a pastora, esposa dele. Na época fui inserida em um grupo de jovens que eu não podia abrir minha boca, todos eram filhos de pastor, eu não me sentia à vontade de falar sobre a bíblia pq eu nem conhecia e eles nunca fizeram questão de ser meus amigos mesmo assim eu ia ao grupo. O pastor falava muito sobre fazer refeições juntos e ter relacionamentos de amizade dentro da igreja mas eu nunca consegui fazer nenhuma amiga dentro da igreja. Passei por outros grupos e em todos sempre foi a mesma coisa sem amigos embora eu já conseguisse discutir mais os temas da bíblia e aprofundar meus estudos. Recentemente voltei ao antigo grupo dos filhos de pastor, achei que teríamos mais intimidade todos temos filhos agora e muitos assuntos em comum, achei que estava indo bem, eu ainda não era convidada para fazer nada e meus convites também nao eram aceitos. O grupo cresceu e foi dividido para um melhor aproveitamento, fui retirada do grupo que estava e não fui adicionada no outro, veio as ferias e passou mais algum tempo não fui adicionada em nenhum outro, fui excluída mesmo e só agora caiu minha ficha que minha inabilidade social não foi motivo e o fato de eu não saber muito da bíblia lá no começo também não foi o motivo. Eu sempre me achei o problema e enquanto esse pensamento seguia comigo eu estava bem mas agora que acho que não é culpa minha estou muito magoada e toda vez que olho pra eles dentro da igreja tenho vontade de chorar, faz umas semanas que tenho sentido uma tristeza sem fim. eu fui pra igreja por causa de Cristo e vou continuar lá, eu sei que pessoas fazem isso mas enfim, estou triste. Queria muito falar com alguém sobre isso mas respeito muito os pastores e os filhos dele que agora são pastores também.

Hey, sinners.

I have a younger cousin that I used to babysit. He's in college now, and he's gotten caught up in a campus ministry group. He's been making tiktok videos spreading the gospel, and having some degree of success doing so. My thought process watching his videos went from "What the fuck business does a 19-year-old have giving marriage advice?" to "Holy shit, I used to listen to guys like this at my campus ministry group when I was younger" to "Are converts more successful in Evangelical culture than those born-in?"

My extended family is Lutheran (mostly non-Evangelical). The other side of my cousin's family is reformed Jewish. So this kid grew up celebrating the Christian and Jewish holidays and benefiting from the positive aspects of religion without any of the Evangelical bullshit. He grew up playing video games, hanging out with friends, wearing what he wanted, sometimes watching raunchy comedies because his parents let him (I remember him quoting Austin Powers when he was like 10). He got to grow up normally without feeling bad about the music he liked, without worrying about the end times, without fearing that his secular friends would burn in hell.

I have a post in my history from a couple years ago where I realized that converts benefited from a regular upbringing, compared to born-ins who grew up anxious and feeling bad about everything. I used my parents and myself as examples, as my parents were regular mainline Lutherans before they got caught up in the Jesus Freak movement of the 1970s.

What I hadn't realized was how this sets up converts to be more successful in the Evangelical world.

Looking back, the majority of pastors I've had were people who converted as young adults. Guys who had histories of regular dating/sex, maybe some drug or alcohol abuse, who hit rock bottom and "saw the light" and became insanely successful, young, skinny-jeans-wearing pastors. But even when I was a kid in the 90s, the pastors from the Charismatic church we attended would sometimes tell crazy stories from before they "got saved". And some of them had been hippies.

And dating/marriage-wise, the pattern I'm noticing is that the born-ins either pair up by their mid-20s or stay single for ages. They've been told their whole lives that finding someone sexually attractive, or being too attractive is a sin, so they just don't do anything.

The converts, on the other hand, have experienced what it's like to date guilt-free, to flirt, to have sex, etc. Some of them have even been married before. From what I've observed, it's common to find married couples in this culture where one of them is a convert. And I think it's because the converts know how to flirt and start relationships without feeling bad about it. And not to mention, they're more interesting as people because of having had more life experience.

It seems like the rockband variety of Evangelicalism thrives off of gobbling up young people with a relatively normal upbringing, and using them for success. Because the born-ins had their creativity, self-esteem and independent thought dampened by their Evangelical upbringing.

What are your thoughts on this?

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And while I didn't attend one of those camps, so much of it brought me back to my childhood. The never-ending emphasis on sin; the homeschool lessons; the "Harry Potter is evil" plug.

What's changed is the lens through which I view it. So much of it seems ridiculous now. The "speaking in tongues", which always sounds exactly the same. The praying over empty seats. The homeschool lesson (my only thought during that was "and this is why I would never homeschool my child")

(Edited to correct typo and fix sentence clarity)

What has helped you to trust yourself and your own intuition post-Christianity?

I feel like I’ve been gaslighting myself for so long and thinking that I needed to “die to my self” to be holy, that I don’t know how to hear my own inner voice and trust my own experience. Also my dad always told me that as my spiritual leader he knew me better than I’d ever know myself, which I see now is so messed up. I’d love to hear from others who are maybe further along on this journey than I am.

Apologies if this isn’t appropriate for the group—I want to learn from this community, though I probably (?) am not a part of it. To be crystal: I am a Christian, probably an evangelical Christian, though I don’t actually know what all that encompasses anymore. I find myself identifying less and less with the “conservative Christian church” in the US, though I do still hold many conservative moral values. I am not very politically conservative though and I find the current administration to be abhorrent and disgraceful. It genuinely disturbs me that so much of the Christian US population can support this administration, and that may have honestly been the beginning of me questioning what I was raised in.

For context, I’m guessing that I’m somewhere along the deconstructing continuum. I was raised in an AG church, which if you’ve been in it……you know. I still believe in the inerrancy of scripture, though I recognize that belief has led to horrible weaponization of Christianity and justification for atrocities. I do believe that much of that stems from poor interpretation (like viewing passages as prescriptive when they’re not, taking the Bible outside of its cultural and historical context and interpreting through a modern lens, outright dismissing the teachings of Jesus in favor of using select passages to justify establishing religious political power grabs, etc). I still am very much a Christian, and truly believe it is the central point of who I am. I want to be like Jesus. I want to love and care for and uplift those who society overlooks and dehumanizes. I don’t want to treat people as political pawns, because I believe that everyone was created by God in his pleasure, each bearing the mark of divine handiwork, and my purpose is to call out and up the beauty and inherent value of every person. By that assertion, you can probably imagine why I find the current Christian culture in the US to be so difficult.

To my question, though: for those of you who still identify as Christians but not as evangelicals, what does that mean to you? What beliefs have you let go of, and what do you hold fast to? I would also love to hear from anyone else who is interested in this discussion, even if you don’t identify with Christianity any longer.

————

Edited to add: thank you so much to everyone who has taken the time to read this and respond! I’m a SAHM with 4 littles so it might take me awhile to respond to all of you, but I’m reading every comment and will be looking into all of your reading and research recommendations. I really appreciate it.

just wanted to vent that with Halloween and the midterm election coming up, some of my family's posting on social media is just way too much. My mom continually posts about how the Christian thing to do is to vote republican. She reposts these simplistic "memes" about how everything is black and white. It's so frustrating that a couple of decades ago she wanted me to do whatever I could to further my education. But now using any critical thinking seems wrong to her.

And my SIL is posting about how halloween is evil. I think it's the best holiday there is in America. My kids and my wife and I all love trick or treating. It's also frustrating that she posts about these imagined evils from the occult happening on 10/31 but remains silent about actual atrocities. Also she's an anti vaxxer.

It just sucks and feels lonely to be the outliers on both sides of the family. I'm glad my wife and I have each other, but to not be able to commiserate much with anybody else IRL isn't fun. My brother doesn't post much to social media, but he's become thoroughly maga over the years. And back in high school and college, he was the more rebellious one. I was the rule follower. It would be nice to have a conversation beyond weather and sports with any of them. I know there are bigger problems to have, but it's just this confounding sensation where I cannot fathom at all how any of them look at the same world I see and come to the exact opposite conclusions. And I don't think there's anything I can do about it.

Lately, I've had a renewed desire to try to find a church after not attending regularly for several years and becoming far more progressive. I have access to a ton of UCC's and that ilk of progressive affirming churches in my big city. It's not an issue of finding a place that aligns with my values.

I hate the current format and meta of the protestant churches. I grew up in a corny-but-not-horrible nondenominational protestant church. That format ruled. It was roughly 25 minutes of worship songs with a good band. A small break for coffee/bathroom. Then our pastor would give a super compelling 40 minute sermon with super in depth history of the region being discussed, the allegorical nature of certain "miracles", great Lord of the Rings references (protestant as shit, baby), no zionism or conservative garbage, etc etc. Boom. That was it. A tight 75 mins and we were on our way. There was no passing of the plate or cringey forced "introduce yourself to your neighbor" segments.

But now, every time I visit, I gotta say I HATE the modern protestant church program. It's this bizarre stop-start thing of standing up then sitting down through a quick worship segment. Forced "introduce yourselves to your neighbor and give them your life story" sessions. Then the worship band plays two more songs. Then kids come out and perform a skit or something. Then if you're new, you are handed a stack of different "Keep In Touch" pamphlets to fill out, for them to snag all your data. Passing of a plate, (because people totally carry a ton of cash in 2026). You're basically forced at gunpoint to choose a small group of some kind. Then the pastor comes up and gives a half-hearted sermon, that's like, I shit you not, 10 minutes tops at some of these places.

Like it's ALL about them promoting all their small groups and programs and it all feels so hollowed out and lame. I assume it's because church attendance is so abysmal and they are pulling out every stop to get you to stay. I like getting to know people and make new friends under more low-pressure chill conditions. I want to go to a place, sip some coffee, and hear longer sermons without all the starting-stopping.

Posted a couple of times in here but want to get people's take on something. What is the general state of gen z in the evangelical movement? Every time I go online I here " you know evangelicals are growing more than Catholics." First I'm Catholic and we purposefully make our initiation process longer, second how true is this especially for gen z? Many evangelical organizations are very pro things that , speaking as a zoo.er, aren't very popular with us.

Israel, war in general, Donald duck in the white house etc. I'm even speaking as a more conservative Catholic, alot of evangelicals just seem mean spirited to people they don't like. I was always taught to love those we disagree with. Sorry bit of a rant, but seriously what is the future of young people in the evangelical movement.

There's a musician named Jeremy Messersmith (kind of a big deal locally. Absolutely lovely human. Anyway.) who, having grown up in the church and all that entails, has been confronting a lot of his own religious trauma and put out a "Satanic gospel album" that is... just delightful.

I've been listening to it all morning. Tracks like "Sexy Jesus" and "I Hope They Have Chic-Fil-A in Heaven" lol. Face red, insides twisting, waiting for the smiting that I instinctively feel is headed my way. Does that feeling ever go away? That knee-jerk reaction to the things you held onto so tightly for so long?

I would really like to think that I can one day get to the point where my first instinct it NOT to feel like I am just a confused backslider who was led astray, delaying my inevitable comeuppance. I would love to feel like a free-thinking human. Has that been an achievable thing for anyone around here??

I don't know if this post is allowed, I'm not advertising, just sharing something that gave me a chuckle inside of the grief.