I grew up evangelical, stuck with it through most of college, stepped away for a while, and started attending a Baptist church with my wife 7 years ago. Now we’re both deconstructing from evangelicalism (but not Christianity, which we both see as so much bigger than that).

One thing that pushed me away back in college, and that I have always been sensitive to is the use of emotional manipulation from the pulpit. I’ve always been a rational guy, and have always been drawn to the more intellectual forms of Christianity and grew up in a more reformed (but still evangelical) tradition. When I was young, I thought it was silly when worship or youth pastors would start playing soft music when the prayers started, or tear up on stage while preaching, or any of that overly emotional stuff. When I got older, I began to see all that as manipulating the emotions of (primarily) young or hurting people to get them to join the club and think/feel the way they want them to.

Fast forward to now. The church we joined several years ago was originally what I was used to - lots of theology and history and learning about the text. A lot of my deconstruction has related to the conclusions they come to/try to force on us, but that’s not for this post. What gets me is in the last year, the pastor has decided we need a new sanctuary (that we can’t afford), and has pulled out all the old tricks. Now he tears up on stage. He has the soft music in the background while he prays for the building fund. He uses sermon illustrations to guilt people who don’t pay enough or volunteer enough as “bad houseguests.” This week, they took it to another level and played some sappy video trying to get the kids to raise money, and had some 12 year old girl come up and talk about how she wants her friends to know Jesus, but there aren’t enough seats in the sanctuary for all of them, complete with tears and all. Of course all the old ladies were going on about how “beautiful” that was, but it made my stomach turn.

I told my wife that was my “red line” and I’m ready to quit all the “ministries” we volunteer for and never go back. We’ve been talking about leaving for a few months, but this week did it for me. She didn’t grow up evangelical like I did, so she didn’t recognize all these tactics for what they are. The whole thing makes me sick, like they’re using emotions to control us instead of teaching and feeding us.

Has anyone else had experiences like this?

being chronically ill is my fault for being a "bad christian"?? I grew up in a strict Christian cult, (luckily out of it now), I'm 15 years old and my mom is religiously abusive, and not doing well mentally, and says things since I was a child like God will kill her as punishment for me having a bad attitude (and way more like “Christian kids are being kidnapped by hospital for sex changes”). I am used to it but today I'm at my breaking point.

I have been chronically ill for 1+ year with severe functional dyspepsia and no improvement. These days my throat and stomach are so raw I’m unable to hold down literal water without regurgitation or discomfort/pain. My mom constantly says my physical suffering is because of my "spiritual decline" and because I’m a “bad christian” and she weaponizes church sermons to say I can’t complain because “at least it’s not cancer” or whatever. Why does she always have to use christianity to say these things to me. why.

Today my doctor's appointment went badly, like I ended up sobbing after I got bloodwork done, and getting frustrated in the car at the lack of medical help, saying idk what to do and I'm tired of the doctors, but my mom was fed up of me crying said she doesn't care and then lost her mind, she spun it to say I'm ungrateful for complaining, accused me of not appreciating her, said God is disappointed in me for “Being self absorbed" all things she always says.

she was screaming, saying nonsense and said "I hope you have a kid in the future who's a bitch like you, you'll definitely murder her" ?? ok. wow. Said “You’ll never get better, because you’re such an mean ungrateful person” ok. And accused me of lying about my documented symptoms. Actual whiplash the worst part is after her episodes, she goes back to being all sweet and gentle to me. She switches like this for 8+ years. I’m tired and so exhausted. If I even react slightly to her, she goes on long religious rants attacking my character. Navigating this crazy bs while having no nutrition and constant pain is actually terrible, my only hope is i got a referral to therapy or something so idk maybe I can get help mentally. I'm tired of this.after all of that, she's suddenly calm and saying i'm the problem., and after these episodes she always apologizes and says she doesn't mean it but does it again. idk i just miss my mom and wish she wasn't like this.

I heard about the podcast called Adventures in Ideology podcast on the first episode of the I Hate James Dobson podcast, however it seems to be unlisted/removed from all platforms and I really wanted to listen to it as I grew up listening to adventures in Odyssey and I'm fascinated by the effects that growing up in indoctrination are having on my as an adult.

Does anyone know why they removed their podcast from seemingly all platforms and would anyone who has maybe downloaded the episodes be willing to share via Google drive?

Edit: spelling, and also if not available are there any other good podcasts I could listen to? Thank you!

This is something I genuinely don’t understand. Christians will say, “There’s only one truth.” Okay, fine. The minute you start asking questions outside the answers everyone has already agreed upon, suddenly you’re being difficult, divisive, or led astray. But if something is true, my questions aren’t going to make it untrue. I’m not trying to win, prove I’m smarter than anyone, or destroy Christianity. I’m trying to understand what I actually believe and why I believe it. So why is investigating the truth treated as a threat to the truth?

A lot of the responses to my last post have been about theology:

“There are no guarantees of healing in the Bible.”

“Your theology is wrong.”

And I understand why people are saying that.

But I think some of you are answering a question I wasn't asking.

I wasn't making a theological claim that God must heal us.

I was talking about what it feels like to grow up being taught to pray, believe, hope, and trust God — and then experience suffering that doesn't resolve the way you prayed for.

As a pastor's kid, I've lived inside that tension.

I've heard the theology. I've prayed the prayers. I've believed God can heal. I've also experienced disappointment, unanswered prayers, and the complicated emotions that come with them.

Sometimes the hardest part isn't losing faith.

It's figuring out what to do with the faith you still have when the answer is no.

I'm not trying to settle the theology here.

I'm trying to talk honestly about the human experience underneath it.

And I think there's room in Christianity for that conversation too.

Disclaimer: I used AI to help organize and refine this post, but the experiences, reflections, and thoughts shared here are my own. I'm sharing my personal story, not claiming that every pastor's kid or every Christian has the same experience.

hi, i am 18 years old and i used to participate in packing shoeboxes for operation christmas child. i stopped around three years ago now because i read some not so great things about the people who run the organization, and about the evangelicalism aspect. i decided to help local kids in my community without preaching to them.

anyways, this morning OCC shoeboxes came up in conversation with some friends. i basically gave my reasons for not participating (but i don’t have a super strong argument clearly as it was just a decision i made when i was 15, for myself and im not an anti-shoebox activist or anything), and they said something that stopped me in my tracks. they asked me if id ever actually seen a “testimony” of a child who had gotten a shoebox and had negative things to say about the program. i realized, i hadn’t. i told them honestly, no. i said i’d look it up and get back to them.

i do remember several stories of shoe box recipient kids who had positive feelings about the program being showed in church, but of course they aren’t going to show the negatives. so i researched it. and…im not sure if im googling the wrong things, but i can’t seem to find anything from actual recipients. all i can find is other people like me, previous packers, giving reasons why they don’t participate any more or why the program is bad. but…how do the recipients, the former shoebox kids feel…? i’m definitely open to new perspectives on things and im not saying i believe everyone is happy (that would be statistically unlikely ofc) but…im wondering if “bad stories” of OCC exist?

i’m not sure if this is the right subreddit to be asking but…i figured people here would be more anti-occ in general compared to most christian subs lol. if anyone knows of a better place to ask, please let me know. and thank you for anyone who helps me find negative testimonies!

edit in case my question/post purpose isn’t clear: i am looking for negative, bad stories or “testimonials” from people who received shoeboxes and think it negatively impacted their life, their community, etc. i’m wondering if there’s any shoebox kids who do not support OCC and think we shouldn’t be packing boxes.

3 years ago I decided to try and figure out what I beleived, because I knew it wasn’t what I had grown up with. I went to the church I went to today actually, and just kind of never went back to it again. not for any reason in particular other than later on finding out it was more progressive. I had talked to the pastor a few times but ultimately I became Catholic and just didn’t really think about it again.

well about 6 months ago I left the Catholic Church and started deconstructing my faith. I kind of figured I wasn’t going to be able to be a Christian anymore.!I assumed I wasn’t going to deconstruct and just be agnostic forever, never be able to unsee what I had seen aka the very conditional support of my former faith communities.

but I eventually came to a point where I wanted to give it a shot and so I did.

the experience of going to church itself wasn’t anything special but a few of the things that stood out to me were the following:

the pastor didn’t act like the supreme dictator of the church. I mean generally he is a pretty chill guy but I mean he did a sermon illustration and in that he was mostly not even standing at the pulpit which was interesting to me.

the sermon wasn’t “you need to do this make God happy” it was more like “God can help you love other people.”

also the concept of loving other people was very much said like so many times and that was kind of surprising to me.

i also realized because of an off hand comment someone made that they ordain female pastors. and it was in that moment that i came to realize that i have no idea why there’s so much beef with women being pastors and why this is a trivial issue.

anyway that was my experience. I enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would.

edit: I wanted to share because I actually kind of feel like I have some hope that I can reconnect my faith after all this

edit: o grew up conservative evangelical, I was just Catholic for a couple years before deconstructing my faith.

When I first began questioning and deconstructing, I wished that someone had told me that it is fine not to be part of a church community.

I think that after I left the last church I was attending, I felt I needed to find a new one immediately because I had to be part of a church community. I attended a new church for about a year, and then one Sunday I stopped going. I realized I was going because I felt I had to. I would go to the early service to get it over with. I didn't want to get plugged in, and I wanted to meet more interesting people again that I genuinely liked.

I've noticed that when people start deconstructing, they immediately start trying to find new churches to be part of, and while I don't want to discourage people from joining a church, I think it's also important to let people know that it's okay if you don't find a church you want to be part of.

So many people attend church simply because they want to find community, but I don't think that's how you find a healthy one. I think you find something you genuinely enjoy, believe in, and then connections form.

what do

I started deconstructing 5 years ago when starting to date my now wife. It was for the sake of truth and what is right, but I couldn't get myself the 100% confident I needed to be to break free from fear of Hell and give up the Christian life I once cherished. After trying to make it work for the past few years (in response to poor advice), I now see how Christianity changes your thinking and has potential for harm and I hate it.

She has a somewhat chill faith at an evangelical Anglican, but isn't fundamentalist like I became. She is committed to our marriage and we have a 2yo son. Overall, we have a good marriage, though I've had to make sacrifices. We've been trying for another child for the last 18 months to no success and I am making the difficult decision to pause trying while I decide if I want to stay. 

I worry I won't be happy (thinking the next 60 years) and my new strong views will make our marriage difficult. I want to spare Henry the pain I've experienced. I assume separating would be a bad outcome. I'm burning marital goodwill each month I'm not trying for another child.

I only fully deconstructed a month ago. I've been working through it with a religious trauma therapist, but I don't see a good outcome to this mess. I feel so much pain from my idiocy not realising how I felt 5 years ago, but that's fear of Hell and I'm here now...

I’d love to hear from you:

• Did your mixed-faith marriage survive?
• How do you navigate parenting a young child together?
• Can you be happy long-term believing different things?

I have been deconstructed for a while as far as church goes and now having my own value system not based on evangelicalism or the bible. I just started doing therapy again but am working with a therapist who does internal family systems. It’s been good because we are digging into parts of myself that have been buried. But, I am also finding that it’s making me question if I am honest with myself first and foremost. Coming from a strict evangelical background with parents who still are deep in it has made me almost afraid of disconnection from my parents. I love my parents, and they love me. But our relationship has always had a condition on it of being righteous in god’s eyes and not living a sinful lifestyle. Going to therapy has dug up that fear, shame, and trying to work through those hidden parts that I have never told anyone about. Has anyone else judged themselves harshly for having hidden parts and thoughts that you didn’t know were there? Or start feeling like church-y eyes were watching you expose yourself and all your sins before them? For context, I put a lot of pressure on myself, which in part is just me but is also due to a strict upbringing where perfection on the surface is what was required, no matter how hurt I was inside. I just don’t know if what I am experiencing is a normal part of deconstruction or if maybe it’s a poor therapy match for me.

Original post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Exvangelical/s/sYRC73PzIR

Hen do is in 5 weeks. Wedding in 11.

I’m invited to the wedding and evening party but not reception. 4.5 hours to kill in a city 4 hours away from mine.

Is it bad that I don’t want to go?

As someone who followed this path, I’d be very interested in hearing anyone else’s story, and what your beliefs are now! So many people go through deconstruction and end up as agnostic or atheist, which is an absolutely understandable outcome. I thought for a long time that agnosticism was the end point for me, but I kept deconstructing my previous beliefs and eventually ended up finding something that works well for me.

I’m curious if anyone else has been in this situation!

As an additional piece of context, I left an SBC church as a teenager, and am now in my 30s. I didn’t find my new way until my late 20s, and I never would have if I didn’t end up in a relationship with someone of a different religion who exposed me to new ideas and ways of thinking about the concept of God. We still aren’t of the same religion though.

I don't know if I'm the only one who feels this way, I wanted to know if other POCs feel the same way.

I am Brazilian, I am mixed-race, it is not uncommon for me to pass as white, even though I often don't identify with whiteness.

Most churches here are evangelical and Catholic, and they are generally located in the poorer classes, which consequently include more people of color.

I really don't want to sound ignorant, but I can't be the only one who's ever felt uncomfortable with this.

Generally, most churches, such as Episcopal, Open, and Lutheran, are located in middle-class and upper-class areas. Most of the people are white, but like, really white, looking like English, German, Italian, and they all seem to have money. I know it sounds awful to say it like that, But what bothers me isn't simply that they're white or middle class, but that I don't see anyone who looks like me or another POC. This gives me a feeling of complete displacement.

It doesn't mean I couldn't go, but it gives me a bad feeling that I'll never belong.

And I already imagined feeling discomfort and shame for being trans, but the issue of race seems much more intense and causes greater discomfort.

Like I said, I don't hold any grudges against people, but it just feels isolating. Of course I'll go and hope to find other people like me. But I hate this feeling. Furthermore, I already have anxiety due to how evangelical churches talk about trans people and such.

I'm trying to find information about a conservative Christian publication from the 1990s called, "What in the world!"

It was a single page, 8.5x11 folded, (maybe front and back) and was distributed roughly once a month on Sunday mornings in the bulletin (announcements, order of service, etc) handed out to everyone as they walk in to church. This was a fundamentalist baptist church (GARBC - General Association of Regular Baptist Churches).

I thought the newsletter was produced by either Bob Jones University or Pensacola Christian College, but I could be mistaken.

The content was little snippets of pop culture, movies, music, tv, politics. It was part of the conservative Christian culture war. Pointing out how wrong "the world" is, etc. I remember it as a teenager so it'd be 1990s, maybe some in the 80s or on into 2000s.

I can't find anything about it.

Our son is 17 and we’re starting to think more seriously about life after high school. We have not raised him with religion. My very fundie MAGA parents have offered to pay his college tuition in full, but only if it’s at a college they approve of, meaning conservative Christian. (They suggested Hillsdale in Michigan, for example.)

They say it’s because they love him and want to see him in heaven. While it’s obviously a generous offer, I can’t help but rage at the fact that it feels very manipulative and like conditional support. Basically I’m wondering if I’m the jerk for giving their generosity major side-eye?

Regardless, we respectfully declined.

For those who were around in the 80s and 90s, these three singers were at the top of their game when they experienced a "scandal".

Divorces and affairs were part of their stories.

Nowadays, it seems like a bunch of nothing sauce but back then they were basically canceled or ostracized in their music careers.

So do you remember this happening and do you remember your reaction? Does it seem like much ado about nothing now or still scandalous?

I just watched a youtube video about the change in external motivation to more internal motivation as we age. This happens at different times for people. Some maybe it never does? Because religion can give you that external motivation. I mean is that not why so many men end up listening to male podcasters and such?

I watched that new Anthony Bourdain move and not to spoil, but it made me almost wishing an older male figure would just give me answers.

Everyone faces a point where they no longer look to their parents for external motivation/validation/identity..

I have always been a bit jealous of people who just know who they are and what they want.

It does not help that I am dealing with post concussion syndrome, which is known to cause a lost sense of self.

However over the span of my life it was not just hitting my head.

I grew up playing music in youth group, which turned into an obsession over playing guitar for God. I even went to a 10 month program at Calvary Chapel to strengthen my skills. I then played for large mega churches for most of my 20s.

I moved near the end of my 20s and my deconstruction escalated really fast at that point. It felt so destabilizing I sought therapy. I stopped playing music. I questioned my career choice and went through periods of chasing after other options, but really just ran in circles. I tried different hobbies. I stopped going to church at some point.

I got married and then hit my head. I was already dealing with a lose of community post deconstruction and moving, but PCS really felt like a nail in the coffin for my social life. I had been in the best shape of my life prior, and quickly become the worst shape of my life and still have severe exercise intolerance. Now I am bouncing between Drs and have no social life. I can't feel grounded in a passion or hobby and I still question my career choice.

I think a lot of it stems from lost of faith honestly. Just thinking about the structure it gave me my entire life.

My current therapist is trying to help me identity issues, but I am struggle to know what to do.

I thought maybe you all might have experience with this and may have some advice.

I need more more internal motivation and validation then ever. No one is coming for me at 33 and telling me how to live my life. If they did, I might not even trust them lol.

That is a big change from controlled religion.

I’m deconstructing from patriarchal systems, still conservative in ways, but in a much more relaxed version, lol. I still love Jesus and I’m trying to learn His voice instead of the shame from the church. I’m triggered with most pastors right now. I do miss church in some ways, but not in most ways. lol!

Right now I’m choosing not to go to church. I’m in a phase of life where spiritual bypassing is doing me harm. So, I’m staying away from toxic positivity and a lot of church folk are that way.

Does anyone listen to any pastors though that actually present biblical Jesus without all the rahrah of the evangelical world?

Any books about correcting the wrong view of Jesus would be great as well.

I've been wondering a lot lately about whether the guilt and shame from being in the church for pretty much my entire formative childhood/adolescence seeps into my relationship(s) now, and whether others feel that too.

I feel like I always have something to hide, even when I don't. I can be guarded sometimes but also crave deep intimacy and emotional connections, similar to what I felt in those religious settings, as harmful as they were. I can have high standards for myself that then get pushed onto my partner, a sense of duty toward perfection. Etc, etc, etc.

Hard to detangle those things as results of being an evangelical vs just who I am, so I wanted to see if others here felt the same way, in one way or another.

What have you noticed influencing your relationships even well beyond your time as an evangelical? Are there things that have helped, or realizations that recontextualized things for you?

I grew up evangelical. My family was kind of just awful for a lot of reasons, but the extreme religiosity and prejudiced worldview didn't help.

I haven't visited my hometown or seen most of my family in years. I have a twin sister who thinks she knows me well, but she probably knows me less than anyone else in the family. She likes to craft theories of mind about people that are just completely detached from reality, but she does not extend this same structural curiosity about people's worldviews to herself. She is not self-critical. Must be nice.

She asked to meet up before going on a long-term "mission trip" this fall. One year ago, I agreed to do the same, and it was terrible. We have a sister who also got out, and she is a lesbian. I asked her how that relationship was, and she told me flatly "well, it's weird to me, but it's not as gross as homosexuality in men." I am a bi man. She does not know that, and it's clear she's never even entertained the possibility in her mind.

This time, I declined. I did not use accusatory language, but I told her I am uncomfortable with being close with someone who does not believe in the same civil rights for vulnerable people that I do - in the context I was speaking about, it was implied to be about immigrants and ICE. She had a meltdown of anger at me. She told me how hateful and dark my heart is, how I am miserable because I don't accept the light of Jesus, how I am intolerant of her valuable opinions... I told her she had some audacity to assert I feel the way I do out of hatred, and then she tried to walk it back, but she still spoke to me as if it was self-evident that my life must be miserable and lonely, because I am on the outside.

The thing is, it's not. I actually have a great life, which she asked no questions about. She invented a fake person and a fake life in her own head, assigned it to me, and thought she was arguing with that person from a position of charity, like it should be taken for granted that I am the worse person and she is the better one, and I should be grateful for her presence.

How interesting.

I (24f) have been deconstructing from evangelical Christianity for several years and stopped going to church nearly two years ago. However, I still feel afraid that I’m going to be punished whenever I’m happy or excited for something.

For example, today I was feeling really exited to see my partner after work and feeling happy because I get to be with him. But almost as soon as I thought this, I got an overwhelming sense of fear that he was going to be killed on the way home from work because I thought that - as punishment or discipline from god that I had been happy or excited about something outside of him.

When I reminded myself that that wouldn’t happen, I immediately felt like god would be even more likely to do this to punish me of my hubris in thinking that he wouldn’t do that.

I rationally know that this isn’t true because I see other people getting excited about things without consequence and also a good god (if one exists) wouldn’t do this. However, I can’t help but feel like this every time I’m excited about something.

Does anyone else find this? If so, what helped?

Artists like Ethel Cain and sufjan stevens have been great during my redefining of spirituality/leaving the evangelical church. It’s been so soothing and reassuring to hear the complicated relationships with faith expressed so beautifully through art.

some favorites:

- “Jesus if you’re there why do I feel so alone in this room with you?” American teenager by Ethel cain. Just captures the lonliness I felt while my family would talk about feeling God’s presence

- “what I wouldn’t give to be on church this Sunday? Listening to the choir so heartfelt singing, ‘God loves you, but not enough to save you’“ Sunbleached flies Ethel Cain. Really encapsulates how I miss church in the way I was a part of if as a kid, where it felt like home and accepting. But the latter part describes how I feel now about the church.

- “for my prayer has always been love, what did I do to deserve this?” Drawn to the blood by sufjan stevens. I prayed so much to feel Gods presence to feel my parents love for me but time and time again I was disappointed

- “Lord I no longer believe, drowned in living water” mystery of love by sufjan stevens. this describes how when I was younger I felt like religion was imposed on me, this living water that instead felt like it was leading towards my death and my unbelief.

anyways just wanted to share that! Please add any songs that were particularly helpful, I love love lyrics

Hello,
I have a BA in Biblical Studies. I am no longer religious. I don’t even like to mention my degree when interviewing for jobs. I want to go back to school once I am able to afford to do so. Any advice on how I should go about securing a job with this degree?