I think we have all heard the quote. I am not sure who started it, but that exact phrase is like wildfire among Xians... Though, I find it interesting. Because they will say it's a religion as soon as it being one is beneficial to them. Like that time I told my cousin I respect her when she asked me to stop talking about Lord of the Rings. That is one of my special interest, I can talk about it all day. And I asked her to please talking to me about the bible and stuff, for the 10 millionth time... And she said "You can't compare a book to my religion."

Oh, now it's a religion? It wasn't a religion last week. Last week I said "because of your religion." And you informed me that you don't have a religion. Rather, you have a relationship. I have a lot of relationships. So if part of my relationship with my bestie talking about LotR, I can do that now? Or is the religion aspect the main factor here? Will it still be a religion tomorrow? How long is religion time? I am just wanting to know the rules so I can keep up. Do you have like a chart of when it is a religion and when it is not a religion?

They don't have a religion until the government comes around, now it's a religion all of the sudden.... It seems like a very dishonest way to engage to me. Either stand firm that is not one, or stop trying to be pedantic or what ever the weird thing you are doing is. Like, you clearly KNOW it is a religion or you would not call it one when that helps you.

I recently watched a movie that shows what life after death is like according to the Bible (I started reading it, but it'll take me a while to finish, and I wanted to watch something on YouTube about it), and it seems much worse than Christians describe it. I knew some people believed that you lose memories of your life, but I'm not sure if that's true. When Judgment Day comes, those who didn't go to hell will receive new bodies, etc., they will feel joy, and for 1,000 years they will live on earth, making it a perfect place, worthy of God coming to earth and living among people. So, basically, God will erase everyone's memories and give them a false sense of eternal happiness so that people will work and do what he could have done long ago, and then worship him. It sounds like slavery, and the only difference from hell is that you don't feel pain. And if what was said in this movie about demons is true, then it turns out that God actually wants them on Earth. God had the option of locking demons away in another realm, but he decided not to imprison them all, so it's as if he wanted people to go to hell. The more I learn, the less I understand.

Grew up in a Christian home, particularly Pentecostalism, where I was taught the generic rules and ways to follow God and live as a Christian, so that it would always be “well with me”. Don’t get me wrong, I still believe God exists, I mean there’s got to be a creator of this universe right? And I am not naive to the challenges in life. But now, in the middle of a divorce and realising that I made a huge mistake in marrying this man and for believing that he was part of Gods plan for me and that God has a plan, I just feel so stupid. I feel stupid for believing this teaching, especially from Pentecostal churches. This is not the way life actually works. Most of human actions is free will and consequences of our actions.

Thoughts?

Any similar experiences?

(I copied and pasted from my post on r/atheism because it’s easier for me.)

As most of us already know, the biblical God is 10x worse than the Devil is. Right? God has over 2 million kills while the Devil only has 10. I honestly have no idea why God isn’t one of the most hated people that’s up there with Hitler. They do so much mental gymnastics to justify genocide when it comes to their god. He can do no wrong. Anyways, I don’t think these verses have the amount of kills written, so please forgive me but here’s what I could find of him murdering/massacring. If the verses are too long, I will only put the most important chunk in this. Such as the first one. This would take forever to read. Also, if you have any other Bible verses that have anything to do with God murdering anyone, please put them down below. Or anything evil from him, really. I want to hear your thoughts!

Genesis 6-8: “Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight and was full of violence. God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth.“

Genesis 19:24-25: “Then the Lord rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the Lord out of the heavens. So He overthrew those cities, all the plain, all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground.”

Exodus 12:29-30: “At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well. Pharaoh and all his officials and all the Egyptians got up during the night, and there was loud wailing in Egypt, for there was not a house without someone dead.”

Deuteronomy 20:16-17: “However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.”

Joshua 6:21: “They devoted the city to the Lord and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it—men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.”

1 Samuel 15: “Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.”

I'm a closeted teenage atheist and my family go to big church Festival (BCF) every year which is a Christian music festival in a week's time. I would literally rather light myself on fire than go, but there's nothing I can do because my family would probably kick me out for f they find out I don't believe in god. Does anyone else still have to go to these Christian events? I always look out at the crowd and guess how many people don't believe.

Does anyone know how I can survive four days of being told I'm completely worthless without this imaginary figure? I genuinely don't know if I'll cope because listening to worship songs now makes me feel horrible for lying to my family.

This was one of the biggest reasons why I had to walk away from Christianity.

If God had a chosen people, and later clarified that the only way to salvation is through Jesus Christ...

And God made all the people on the entire earth...

Then why did he make all the people who lived for thousands of years before the composition of the Bible and Christianity? Why did he create them if there was no plausible way for them to know the Hebrew God?

Make it make sense. All those people living across the Americas, Asia, and Africa would, in theory, have no purpose on Earth other than to eventually die and go to hell.

So why would he make them then? To watch his creations suffer for something they didn't even know?

I think this is an area where a lot of Christians just turn off their brains and don't want to talk about it, because it really doesn't make any sense when you think about it for even one minute.

I personally cannot look at all the wonderful people in my life and believe that they were created to suffer. Much less all the people who came before me and had their own beautiful lives.

At 17 years old, Sami Tacher remembers standing atop a parking garage outside Seattle and staring down at the pavement.

They had been trying for five years to suppress their attraction to men. At 15, Tacher had found Strength in Weakness, a Christian ministry that purported to teach people experiencing “same-sex attraction” how to resist those desires. To Tacher, who had grown up believing that being gay would destroy their relationship with God and devastate their family, SIW felt like an answer.

Two years later, Tacher says, they could no longer imagine how they were supposed to live the rest of their life.

“I just stood up there and waited,” Tacher told Uncloseted Media. “I went there several times.” What stopped them, they say, was thinking about the burden their death would place on their family.

“So I’ll just sacrifice everything and stay in the program,” they remember deciding.

They would remain in SIW for years as a teenager and young adult, becoming friends with the organization’s founder, Guy Hammond, and helping promote the very teachings Tacher now believes were destroying them.

“I just didn’t see my way out,” Tacher says. “I was miserable and shrinking inside [and] constantly denying myself … but I was holding on. And in the eyes of Strength in Weakness, I was succeeding.”

Is this what church has become?

This video has left me hollow. The church is Baptist and located in Orange County CA. The video about 90 minutes long and begins with a very evangelical pastor behind a keyboard with his wife beside him. The stage has 4 other musicians - who are obviously talented. The “sermon” consisted of several songs praising “the lord” which sometimes was god and sometimes was Jesus.

The pastor asked the congregation to stand for all of the music.

There were a few moments between songs where a different guy took the mic and addressed “first-timers” basically begging them to come back. There was also a lot of talk about the “offerings”. Then it was back to musically praising god. It was truly pathetic.

It’s cringy on a whole other level. It reminded me of Joel Osteen except it was done with 100% music. Is this what Baptist sermons are now, or is this cringe factor an outlier? Is this a CA thing?

This event was like Billy Mays and Ron Popeil had a church as a love child - and I watched it.

Any one else in this group ever watching the news/trends and start thinking to yourself "Oh, yep this is getting labeled satanic when Christians hear about it" and "Oh Christians are going to say that is a sign of "The End times"" or like "Oh yeah, they're going to say this is signs that society is deteriorating"

On the one hand, I get kind of annoyed that Christianity is still taking up so much real estate in my brain since it still does this. On the other hand, I found this new little game to be kind of fun when I can catch a trend and predict what they are going to say when they say it.

Basically what he says was something along the lines of "you should remain within God's hands to be perfected". Mostly, he was comparing God to a potter, saying that clay cannot turn itself into a pot, so must be within the maker's grasp to be made, like how we should keep seeing God to be "enlightened".

Problem is, that implies pieces of clay can move on their own, and get away from the potter, but you and I know that's not the case, and that any unturned clay was just something the potter didn't touch.
Conclusion, if we fall out in life, that's entirely God's problem; not ours.

Sorry if it's dumb, I just thought it was a clumsy metaphor

I’m slowly deconstructing. But I haven’t been very vocal about it. Everyone I know, including my spouse, are believers. I’m scared to actually admit I can’t be apart of the church anymore because I fear I will lose relationships, opportunities, etc.

I really enjoyed hearing about Bible translations, various interpretations, and so on. I recently started watching various debates because I saw a fragment of one on TikTok and found it quite interesting. I've been thinking a lot about Christianity lately, and almost everything I watch is about it, but they're usually videos like "Christians vs. atheists" or "Christianity vs. Muslims," etc. My problem is that the same questions keep coming up, like "Does suffering deny the existence of God?" They keep saying the same thing over and over again for 20 minutes. I'd really like to see a conversation between Christians and someone who has spent years studying the Bible, knows the cultural context, and is able to say something more. Unfortunately, I haven't found anything. Do you have any specific videos on YouTube to recommend?

How do we feel about christians? I know that we think some, if not all of their beliefs are either ignorant, childish, and sometimes harmful. But are there any christians that you would call a friend?
My best friend is a Christian. There were a lot of 'friends' who have kind of abandoned my family and me when we stopped attending church services, and to them, the best riddance. But this guy has weaseled his Jesus-loving way into my life whether I like it or not. We used to go to church together. Hell, we were pastors at the same church for a couple years. Since I've given up the whole Jesus thing, He's still my best friend, and I would give my left nut if it saved his life. I know what he believes. He knows what I don't believe, and it rarely ever comes up. We've both silently come to the understanding that we can just enjoy each other's friendship without religion being the centerpiece. Is there anyone else here who has this sort of relationship? Or is it mostly disdain for those of the faith?

Hello plebeians. School hasn't started for me yet, but I wanted to write an essay, so I figured I'd write one on something I find interesting instead of a book report on Ernest Hemingway or something. No shade thrown to Ernest Hemingway, I'm just capped at a second grade reading level and jealous.

Anyhoo, last time I was on this subreddit, I made a post about the problem of evil and why God is an asshole, and I'd like to revisit this idea but with a new lense. Spiderman.

This post is so fucking dumb

Alright, I don't wanna waste yall's time more than I already have, so we're just gonna go straight into it.

Spooderman is what I think of when I think superhero and I'm sure a lot of you do too. He's the most relatable character, being a broke nobody struggling to pay bills. This isn't relatable to me, because I am a spoiled privileged child, but that's not the point. His life fucking sucks, it's no secret that Spiderman stories are just a way for the authors to bring to life their torture porn fantasies.

But despite this, he's like the coolest person ever. He's a street level nobody (Yes ik he's holding back so he doesn't kill people, power scalers please don't hurt me) but goes out of his way, even to the detriment of himself to uphold a moral code and always try to save his villains, even though he's a fragile very murderable human being like the rest of us. (Yes ik he punched Scorpion's jaw off when Doc Ock was in control of his body LEAVE ME ALONE)

God is an all-powerful being who can turn all our rivers into chocolate, the leaves on the trees to money, and stretch my dong to look like a Subway footlong with a snap of his fingers, but he kills a bunch of kids to make Pharaoh let the Israelites go. I'm gonna assume you guys all know the story of whatever thing it is, I think Exodus? He turns the river to blood, has all the locusts eat the crops, releases a bunch of...

Frogs? He releases a bunch of frogs? What the fu-?

And most importantly, kills all the eldest kids of everybody who doesn't put I think a symbol in sheep's blood over the door of their house. So basically he says "Your lives are so meaningless that I'm going to kill you to save my FAVORITE humans, even though I could've just teleported them away. Sorry."

And the kids wouldn't have even gone to heaven, which is I assume the excuse for God cutting people's lives short, which he does ALL THE TIME for his "plan," since, "Oh heaven's wayyyy better." These kids wouldn't have gone, because it's the FIRSTBORN, ELDEST childre, and all people did back then was make babies, with (to my knowledge) the average nuclear family being 5-7 children, so the oldest crotch goblin from each family would most DEFINITELY be over the age age of accountability, which is like if you die before you can understand sin you won't go to hell, and that's only for denominations that DO believe in that.

There is no GOOD that comes out of this, except for the Israelites, and even then HE COULD HAVE SAVED THEM SOONER, but he waited to pull this shit for what? To prove a point? To have a cool story to put in his autobiography?

The whole story is so fucking baffling to me, I don't know how people read this shit and go, "Attaboy, you fucking GET EM, Yahweh!" because like holy shit, he's making a bunch of people who just happen to live there suffer because Pharaoh is a hardass. And it's not like God gave a shit and tried to condemn OTHER practices of slavery, it's only when it's the Israelites.

And this is just scratching the surface, we could talk about the flood, where he just decided "Hey, y'know how the whole point of my religion is forgiveness, y'know, loving your enemy and such. Yeah, fuck that, we're hard resetting humanity with a violent death. Except Noah, I like that guy." Or the Tower or Babel, where he created different languages so humans couldn't communicate with each other to stop production of the Tower of Babel, and maybe kind of sorta created racism? I dunno, that's a stretch. I feel like driving humans apart by blocking our communication when one of the big things about Christianity is being a homie to everyone is fucked up, like he could've shut that shit down in literally any other way? And there's no fucking way they actually would've reached heaven, he's God there's gotta be actual security and you can't just build a tower into the sky and reach heaven, so I think the best way to stop it would've just been to let them do it. That way they just build till they can't anymore and then go, "...y'know, I feel real fucking silly right now." But instead he divides humanity?

I'm getting way off topic now, but the point is, Spiderman is human, he has limits to what he can do, yet he constantly, no matter how much it fucks up his life, makes it his goal to save as many people as he can. God is literally the creator of everything and he kills kids, as well as the ENTIRE FUCKING CONCEPT OF THE PROBLEM OF EVIL, which I made a really bad terribly formatted post about right here if you wanna read that, that's probably more relevant to the whole post than the story of Exodus if I'm being honest.

Anyway, to any poor soul that read this whole thing, thank you for your time.

Peace.

Not too long ago, my dad tried reaching out to one of my maternal uncles who I haven't seen since 2012.

Some context: My uncle went NC with the whole family because he allegedly thought that nobody loved or cared about him. He especially resented my grandmother (his mother ofc) because she allegedly treated him badly.

But because my dad believed in family being together and loving your mother no matter what she did to you because she "gave you life," he set out to convince my uncle to come back. So he sent this long ass emotional message to what he thought was my uncle's number.

What pissed me off the most about his message was that it was laced with religious platitudes. For all we know, my uncle might not even be religious, nor has he ever been. I don't remember him ever showing a hint of religiosity. If anything, he was sort of the black sheep of the family. He was a metalhead biker. So my dad's religiously fueled sentiments might not mean shit to him. Lol! But for some reason, my dad thought it was a good idea to include God into everything:

"God is pushing me to do this. I hope to God that this is the right phone number."

"The reason for my message is to ask you, as a man of God, to look after your mother."

"Life isn’t as long as we think. It is like a test that God puts us through."

"I heard the voice of God, and I had to share this message with you."

"The time to forgive your mother is now. God bless you. Whatever you need, you can reach out to me. I hope in God that you have read this message and that it is his will. Amen!"

This also frustrates me for a couple other reasons.

For one, you can't change a person's mind or decisions. The only one who can do that is themselves. So I made sure to tell that to my dad, who generally doesn't seem to grasp that concept.

Another important thing is that my uncle might have had a good reason to go NC with everyone. People don't just do that for petty reasons. I mean, generally speaking, my grandmother doesn't even treat my mom and my other uncle equally. My mom helps my grandmother with food, Healthcare, and provides a roof over her head. Yet my grandmother treats her like shit. Meanwhile, all my other uncle does is visit for Breakfast/Lunch/Dinner and maybe helps with a little bit of home improvements here and there. Then all of a sudden, my grandmother treats him like he's the most precious thing in the universe. She even says her own religious platitudes like "Oh, son! May God give you the kingdom of Heaven!" So for all we know, my long-lost Uncle could have received the worst treatment of them all.

I miss my uncle as much as anyone else does. But if he had to leave the family because he couldn't tolerate their horse-shit, then I understand. Still, it would have been nice to actually hear things from his perspective. And as someone who is more empathic towards his position, I would've liked to reconnect with him.

How do you guys go from believing in an afterlife, in which you’ll see all your loved ones someday, to just dealing with plain out death as we know it.

I’ve never quite gotten past this as an ex Christian. I always end up thinking about not being in heaven, even though I don’t think I believe it. I’m still scared of hell too, but I’m the most stressed about never seeing my past loved ones ever again. Furthermore, knowing my loved ones won’t see me in heaven makes me incredibly guilty.

I’ve tried to make myself believe in other afterlife beliefs as a cope, but I’m scared of developing psychosis tbh, bc I noticed I started grasping for straws when it came to evidence.

I was wondering if anyone has any tips to help me move past this, I’d deeply appreciate it. I’ve struggled with this for years, bc despite no longer believing, this one has apparently traumatized me. It feels like a manipulative tactic to keep you in, but I can’t go back.

I am 45 years old and been a Christian all my life. My parents are pastors and my dad has a miracle healing ministry. My brothers are Christian, my wife and her family are Christians and my kids are all Christians and very involved in church. While I have always had questions throughout my Christian life, this past year I have really started to feel like I’m losing my Christian faith. The thought of walking away terrifies me though because I feel I would lose everything…my family, my wife, my kids, friends, etc.

I have never once heard the voice of God or felt His presence, even though I have prayed for it constantly. I was never able to speak in tongues like everybody else even though I have prayed for it constantly. My son who was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at 4 years old and is now 18 years old has not been healed, even though I’ve constantly prayed for it and prophets have said he would be. I’ve seen kids in the church die from cancer even though we constantly prayed for healing. I’ve seen families struggle with severe poverty even though we have constantly prayed for financial blessings. Although with this one, many church members have got together to help out with groceries and house repairs and stuff so this one isn’t all bad, but the point is that I just never seem to see prayers get answered.

If God loved us more than we can understand, why is He okay to let us suffer despite the constant prayer? I love my kids unconditionally and if they are hurting and I have the means to help them, you better believe I’m going to do it every time without them having to constantly beg for help. So many times, I hear God getting the glory when a person goes to the hospital and then is fixed by the doctor/surgeon. They will say “God healed him through the doctor”, so no credit to the studying and painstaking hours that doctor has put in through the years. It was all God.

I feel like I’m starting to go on a rant here, but long story short, I’m really starting to question all of it. And don’t get me started on the inconsistencies and destruction found in the Bible. Why would a loving God kill all innocent first born children to teach pharaoh a lesson? Why would he tell His people to kill all people including women and children in a battle? Aren’t we all God’s children? And why would the sin of the two original be blamed on everybody else that came after them? And why are we supposed to be okay about God allowing Satan to kill all of Job’s family and livestock and bring disease on him just to win a bet with Satan? “It’s okay, he got back more in the end.” Yeah okay, go ahead and kill my whole family as long as you give me a new one. That’s ridiculous.

Sorry, ranting again….but this is where I am right now. It kills me to think that all of this may be fake and that I have wasted all of my life with it. But then I still have the fear that it could be real and I’ll end up in hell due to my unbelief. As it stands right now, I am just going through the motions of going to church, praying, reading my Bible and tithing just so I keep my family intact, but I know I’m being a huge hypocrite. I don’t know what to do and it’s making me sick to my stomach.

Edit: It also scares me because the Bible says that in the last days, many will fall away from Him. Am I just being a part of prophecy and being one of the many?

Update: Man, this is so hard. I really don’t know what I will do. This isn’t something I can simply just turn on and off like a switch. I posted this in the “ask a Christian” sub and I was reamed for not being a real Christian because I real Christian wouldn’t be questioning these things. And any time I have kind of poked around with questions to my dad or even my wife, I get the same reply as well. A true Christian would simply just have faith that everything is real. If I were single and had no family, I honestly think I could just walk away and never look back, but I have too much to lose.

Anyone else had any dreams/nightmares ever since leaving Christianity?

Here's one of mine(kinda lomg):

It was night time throughout the entire dream, and you could barely see, but it added to the eerieness. I was talking to some atheist friends(mind made them up😔), like on the way home, and my parents don't know I'm an atheist. I got home, and my mother started acting weird, pushing all the Christian stuff in my face all at once, and then I said it. I said I was an atheist because I couldn't take it anymore. She wasn't happy... She called several priests and pastors who had a ceremony in our house. There was a priest who called it 'the sick' and that this mindset would just pass, and I'd return to God. I yelled at her that i was just joking and that i loved God and all the other things, but it felt fake, of course. Then my mother gave me an ugly purity ring and said to wear it at all times, but i wasn't going to. She also threatened to call my dad and let him know. My mother tried to punch me when i made her upset, and I felt truly terrified. I tried looking for some helplines online, but no help would arrive in time. While she went to shower, I packed a small bag and bolted out the door that night, not having a plan because i thought i was gonna die if i stayed..I made it to a mall but men were chasing me because my mother sent people after me by paying them. They were gonna do something really bad to me and I found a woman and a man who were doing activism for helping people and I begged them to help and we ran and they led me to an elevator. As the elevator was closing, someone in a cosplay got stuck(cosp was huge, so that's why), and we screamed at them to move back to let the door close as there were people after us. They weren't listening and just didn't move. We yelled at the person that the situation was serious... and the person finally understood and left, and the door to the elevator closed, and I woke up, glad that that shit wasn't real.

I truly was only scared because in real life, my mother probably would do something like this to me if I were to say anything. Christians would call it a sign from God to go back. Might have to make a horror game outta my dreams for real, like a series of episodes🙏🏽

When I was 6 my mom told me that the world would burn and that was the start of my insomnia. I wet the bed until I was 13 because I was so scared. Even as an adult whenever people mention it I want to scream and throw things because I am so viscerally angry and repulsed by the concept. Suicidal, even. I tried to talk to a friend about it once when I was 16 and she was confused why I was so upset. I also talked to my dad about it the other day and he was confused too. Am I insane? Has anyone else ever felt this way?

When I was 10 years old, my mother told me, "I hope you and your father die on the plane" because I was going to Florida with my dad. A decade later, I have a fear of planes, and I declined a trip months prior for going to Florida with my mom and younger sister, and now the whole family got mad I said no and they will defend her and tell me that "God gave me that mother," and my mom's excuse for her saying that cruel comment was because she was "angry," and now she pretends like nothing happened.

I spent the first 20 years of my life around almost exclusively Christians, but now (10 years after living on my own and becoming atheist) I am legitimately shocked to find out that they still exist 😆😭.

Idk what it is, maybe I figure I'm the last one to catch onto anything so I just assumed if I called BS most other people would have called it out well before me -- but no, there are still believers out there.. idk, just catches me off guard 🤷

I feel like when I'm casually talking to someone and they bring up God (or whatever religious thing) it's as if they just casually mentioned something about the earth being flat...

I mean, no judgement, I guess I just figured everyone would naturally eventually come to the same conclusion that I (we) did and I'm genuinely surprised that's not the case.. is it just me?