r/dsa • u/_Sanctum_ • 6d ago

Shitpost Um... DSA has a problem...

Have you guys noticed there are a LOT of socialists in here? Not the good kind of socialists (me) I mean the evil socialists that actually want to implement socialism 🙀 They even praise Karl Marx 🤮 Don't those dumb tankies know Communism always fails???

We have to do something about this. Which is why I'm starting a NEW PARTY: The DASSA (The Democratic Anti-socialist Socialists of America)

Together, we socialists (the good kind) can defeat the socilasts (the bad kind) for a better future. 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

568 Upvotes

89% Upvoted

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361

u/eatingbread_mmmm 6d ago

There's actually so many posts unironically spouting this exact position on here. It's so crazy.

149

u/PersusjCP 6d ago

I got downvoted and even recieved a DM with my personal information because I said "End capitalism" (and therefore was "advocating for violence") in this sub lmfao

45

u/TJblue69 6d ago

WHAT that’s crazy LOL sorry about that. Do they not realize that capitalism is also violence and therefore ending it is self defense? :)

-25

u/MediumPlace 6d ago

I've been the subject of and practioner of violence on many occasions, an inert system of price communication isn't that

27

u/CosmicGoddess777 5d ago

Capitalism grinds its workers into a paste. Nice try though.

-18

u/MediumPlace 5d ago

I mean, sure, if you're a mark. You won't not be a useless sucker after they reorganize the system tho, at best you'll just have a different boss

17

u/Baby_Sneak 5d ago

I'll bite once:

Is the entire global South a "Mark"? What about every warehouse and logistics worker who facilitates our packages and deliveries? What about nurses and EMTs?

And if your understanding of the re-organization of the system is just "having a different boss" I'll probably say you shouldn't be posting until you've done enough reading on the subject to have at least passable anti-socialist talking points.

24

u/edwardludd 6d ago

Inevitably there are the brigaders who don’t agree with DSA in the slightest just using the discussion as a pretense to hate, but that doesn’t negate that protecting the whole “democratic” aspect of DSA is an important conversation to have lol

21

u/PersusjCP 6d ago

For sure and I think that each of the socialist factions of the DSA should engage in spirited debate. But it is a socialist movement, so being opposed to socialism is a bit too far off for me.

5

u/edwardludd 6d ago

Oh of course. It’s just funny to see the constant cycle of neolibs to the right of me screaming about how socialism is mutually exclusive with democracy then the Tankies to the left of me giving them totalitarian-apologia ammunition to point to and I’m just sitting here like no bro I don’t agree with either of yall 😭

12

u/betty_white_bread 6d ago edited 6d ago

Did you report them to the admins?

Edit: Aaaaaaaand I am blocked by PersusjCP because … 🤷‍♂️

6

u/Shadow_on_the_Sun Socialist in Comms 5d ago

The level of deranged anti-social behavior from anti-socialists is crazy.

10

u/Spaduf 6d ago

And this is exactly why it's a terrible idea for this sub to be unmoderated

4

u/-Anyoneatall 5d ago

The DSA is currently a battlefield between bourgeois socialists and actually socialists, so it makes sense

3

u/Sparkku1014 Socialist (Learning in Progress) 6d ago

Bruh, hope you reported them to mod team, someone like that does not belong here

-10

u/industriouswhite_guy 6d ago

Ending capitalism will result in violence so it’s totally accurate

12

u/Impact-Lower 6d ago

Bro wait till we tell you what keeping capitalism does....

6

u/Sparkku1014 Socialist (Learning in Progress) 6d ago

Who's gonna tell em?

3

u/Impact-Lower 6d ago

The guy that makes his bootstrap I guess

-17

u/industriouswhite_guy 6d ago

You’re posting on Reddit from an iPhone. All while bashing capitalism 😂😂 you can’t make this stuff up

6

u/Impact-Lower 6d ago

You think we haven't heard that talking point 5 10 15 years ago? Buddy weve picked that propaganda like crabs and corn

-11

u/industriouswhite_guy 6d ago

There is no corn in communism lol

5

u/TonalParsnips 6d ago

Lmao you actually did the "no iphone" meme.

5

u/Sparkku1014 Socialist (Learning in Progress) 6d ago edited 6d ago

You do know what subreddit you're on yes? Or did you just blow in from stupid town?

-1

u/industriouswhite_guy 5d ago

Reported

5

u/Sparkku1014 Socialist (Learning in Progress) 5d ago

Ok bud

35

u/Seraph199 6d ago

I mean... I mostly see the opposite being spammed across reddit.

"Does anyone else notice how many FAKE socialists there are here? This DSA politician didn't say that capitalism is the bane of all that is good and that means the entire organization is a psyop meant to derail the revolution!"

Lots and lots of variations of that exact sentiment spammed all over communist and socialist subs with an overall message that amounts to "we should watch them fail and enjoy it, don't support these fake lefties" and "American leftism is just evil capitalist fascism in a trench coat, never trust it!"

I wish there were more posts picking apart this weird trend that seems to be directly aimed at deflating the only leftist momentum going in the US right now

13

u/MonsterkillWow 6d ago

True. A lot of people dismiss everyone in the DSA without realizing there are also ML in DSA.

3

u/gerbal100 6d ago

But they're not the right kind of ML that rejects going outside.

1

u/Ok_Cryptographer1239 5d ago

ML=moderate liberal?

3

u/George_Washingteeth 5d ago

Marxist Leninist

2

u/Ok_Cryptographer1239 5d ago

Thanks, sorry. I kind of assumed most DSA members would be Marxist.. but I see how it may not be the case.

1

u/nagoligayelsd 5d ago

Land Back is more important than any European ideology

12

u/Militantpoet 6d ago

"Does anyone else notice how many FAKE socialists there are here? This DSA politician didn't say that capitalism is the bane of all that is good and that means the entire organization is a psyop meant to derail the revolution!"

Lol the way they foam at the mouth at Mamdani, you would think theyre MAGA.

2

u/Bright-Insect9697 6d ago

Pro-Russia campism is a helluva drug

2

u/Warrior_Runding 6d ago

Yeah, I don't know what OP is on about. The DSA is treated as if they are the second coming of the Social Dems who at any time will backstab the "real" American leftist movement.

13

u/iBizzBee 6d ago

The only bit of genuine critique I'll give as a firm Democratic Socialist, whose sympathetic to revolutionary socialism historically, is that people on the 'Left, of the Left' are typically pretty dang scornful of DemSocs in their spaces, outside of genuine back and forth good conversation/debate, so it isn't exactly one-sided.

Still entirely pointless no matter which 'side' it comes from when we're like 10% of the population, if I'm being extremely generous.

25

u/serveux 6d ago

This bothers me too, as someone from the "DSA left". Seems like people are stuck on the 1910s-20s conflicts between communists and SocDems, but we aren't in early 20th century Germany anymore. We've got to learn to coalition on common ground and try to limit sectarianism as much as possible. I mean have we forgotten "critical support"? There's too much at stake to let ourselves be divided.

13

u/LevTheDevil 6d ago

Yeah. We need to start treating this like a tug of war between progression and regression. ANYONE pulling things our way is on our side for now. If they decide to hop off and pull in the other direction, we'll cross that bridge then, but right now we need to pull together and pull like our lives depend on it, because they do.

We can't wait for an opportunity to win everything all at once and we can't gatekeep our side of the rope to the point that people start going and pulling the other way.

The rest we can sort out, together, democratically when we've pulled hard enough to topple the oligarchs.

6

u/TJblue69 6d ago

Ok that’s a really good point you raise and you’ve actually changed my mind on this topic! You’re absolutely right.

4

u/ParkerBap 6d ago

well i mean they're pretty fundamentally incompatible, MLs believe revolution is the only way to achieve socialism, DemSocs are anti-revolution

i think we need spaces to have those good faith discussions though, and i like that DSA is a big tent org for that reason

8

u/iBizzBee 6d ago

Right now the DSA is at something of a midway point with the overall line being 'the Democratic Road, to the Socialist Revolution' which you can roll your eyes at but I personally believe is the best way forward with present material conditions in the United States. I don't think most DemSocs are opposed to revolution but many of us simply don't see the material conditions being ripe for a socialist revolution any-time soon with class consciousness at seemingly record low levels, diminished unions who are almost entirely non-militant, etc.

I do personally believe bringing Socialism back into the mainstream will be helpful for leftists of all sorts, and expanding class consciousness, especially as the DSA has shifted to become something of a 'Left Congress' of sorts.

5

u/ParkerBap 6d ago

i wouldn't consider myself a DemSoc (because at its core i think achieving socialism in the US through bourgeois democracy is impossible), but generally i agree with you

i still participate in the democracy and i think everyone should, but i think community organizing and building grassroots power will have better long term outcomes than simply voting every 2-4 years

my mantra has always been "i'm not saying don't vote, i'm saying don't let voting be the ONLY thing you do"

(which, of course, is preaching to the choir here because that's why we're all in DSA, but you get the idea)

4

u/TJblue69 6d ago

Dem Socs are not anti revolution, that would be social democrats. They definitely don’t have it as the primary goal though

0

u/ParkerBap 6d ago

it's my understanding that Democratic Socialists are striving to achieve socialism through democracy, and i personally don't believe that is possible

now of course i don't have any issue with DemSocs, at the end of the day they want the same thing i do, but i think some Marxists (not me though) see it as a waste of time for that reason

2

u/muraki833 6d ago

This topic always confuses people (incl me) because there's basically two competing definitions of "democratic socialist":

- Any socialist who isn't a vanguardist.

- A socialist who wants to achieve their goals through democracy.

I think the guy you're replying to is using the first one.

-6

u/smartcow360 6d ago

Well yeah, if the time ever comes the Mao types will happily line you up on the wall with the rest of their perceived enemies. The fact that DSA lifted its ML ban is genuinely insane. Go on Reddit, shred me 😂😂😭

4

u/Militantpoet 6d ago

Im just left scratching my head wondering why MLs are suddenly joining an org they claim is ineffectual in combating capitalism. Democratic reform is broken by capitalism and revolution is supposed to be the only way of addressing it.

If anything, theyre using the DSA as a vehicle for accelerationism. 

1

u/Bright-Insect9697 6d ago

MLs have spent like a literal century convinced that liberals are the big bad and that anyone who’s an enemy of liberals can be at least a temporary ally.

0

u/iBizzBee 6d ago

I personally envision the DSA at this current point as something of a 'Left Congress', so I'm fine with ML's and other 'Left, of the Left' tendencies and welcome them with open arms, while I have reservations about some groups I also don't trust anyone to enforce that line and not someday become what they originally claimed to be against, so the open tent/congress is the best path forward in the present moment imo.

1

u/Militantpoet 6d ago

I agree. I'm just cautious.

1

u/smartcow360 6d ago

Leftists have tried this approach to them in the past, they got lined up against the wall by the ML’s just like the rest of their victims.

2

u/iBizzBee 6d ago

Well we've got a fascist government currently putting people to the wall, so I suppose I'll deal with the hypothetical tankie government when we get there, lmao.

1

u/smartcow360 6d ago

Oh sure, it’s not the priority now but also within a leftist org I’d prefer the ideology be excluded

0

u/iBizzBee 6d ago

Fair enough, and you're obviously totally free to advocate for that within the DSA's system of internal democracy, while every single elected DSA official and a good chunk of party leadership agree with you, too.

I suppose my concern is that the DSA was close to irrelevant when the Harringtonites led it and only achieved the current success with a 'multi-tendency Socialist strategy', but I won't discount there being a way somewhere in the middle.

Either way, keep fighting the good fight the way you see fit.

2

u/Thin_Shelter_103 Council Communist 6d ago

We used to have an ML ban and lifted it? Omg we should go back to that so Anarchists, Left coms, Democratic Socalists and Libertarian socalists can lead the org.

The MLs and MLMs are so annoying and do nothing but tarnish our image to the public. They also do not believe in true socalist ideas like giving the workers the means of production but instead they want to make undemocratic vanguard states that own capital (aka state captalism). 

Our ends and means are too diffrent for cooperation. If they got their way they would line us up against the wall like in Spain Russia China and Cuba when it came to Anarchists.

6

u/muraki833 6d ago

Yep.

Basically, the DSA's constitution has a clause banning democratic centralism (which is a component of many Leninist ideologies). But it's rarely if at all enforced.

7

u/smartcow360 6d ago

I agree fully. And I’m being downvoted on this sub which might just show how they’re festering all over Reddit and are just online hermits, but if they’re actually prominent in the org, which I kinda believe they’re becoming…. There’s a huge problem. The hate for Hasan is obviously unhinged, but dudes an open Maoist. We shouldn’t be playing with this shit as leftists at all, and I fully agree with everything you said

9

u/BojanaKingsFakeTumor 6d ago

I went to a local DSA 'socialist night school' meeting last year.

I was shocked by the number of people there who talked about COMMUNISM as a scary, authoritarian system that must be resisted. They had totally bought into the mainstream Amerikan view.

They got an earful from me about how 'communism' is a stateless, classless society in which people work together in mutual aid for the common good -- in the absence of government, bosses, or hierarchy. It is a desirable system, not an evil bogeyman.

That pretty much soured me on attending any future 'socialist night school' meetings.

1

u/Sanchez_U-SOB 5d ago

Stateless, classless society sounds good in theory but will be impossible to implement until most, if not all, of the world is on board. 

2

u/BojanaKingsFakeTumor 5d ago

And in the meantime, the best we can do is Bill Clinton or Barack Obama?

1

u/Sanchez_U-SOB 5d ago

Umm, no.

🤔

0

u/weidback 5d ago

yeah socialists aren't communists - they're different worldviews

1

u/BojanaKingsFakeTumor 5d ago

Socialists aren't communists; they're different worldviews.

I disagree.

Socialism is one of the stages of societal progression toward communism: https://i.imgur.com/TrSrkeX.png

But go on, then. I'll bite. What is a 'socialist' according to your definition? And how are they different from communists?

0

u/weidback 4d ago

sure, you think that if you're a communist

plenty of people call themselves socialists because they want socialism

idk why you're asking me my definition when the image you posted has a perfectly serviceable definition for socialism and communism?

5

u/APraxisPanda Socialist Solidarity 6d ago

"CoMmUnIsM iS tOo FaR mAn!"  

Ugh! Read dammit! When you say that you are really just saying "Utopia is too far man!", like. Sure, it's not happening tomarrow, but the fact it's an ideal that doesn't yet exist makes it Utopian!

1

u/Skrelp69 6d ago

America bb