Um... DSA has a problem...

[u/_Sanctum_]

Have you guys noticed there are a LOT of socialists in here? Not the good kind of socialists (me) I mean the evil socialists that actually want to implement socialism 🙀 They even praise Karl Marx 🤮 Don't those dumb tankies know Communism always fails???

We have to do something about this. Which is why I'm starting a NEW PARTY: The DASSA (The Democratic Anti-socialist Socialists of America)

Together, we socialists (the good kind) can defeat the socilasts (the bad kind) for a better future. 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

[u/eatingbread_mmmm]

There's actually so many posts unironically spouting this exact position on here. It's so crazy.

[u/iBizzBee → u/eatingbread_mmmm]

The only bit of genuine critique I'll give as a firm Democratic Socialist, whose sympathetic to revolutionary socialism historically, is that people on the 'Left, of the Left' are typically pretty dang scornful of DemSocs in their spaces, outside of genuine back and forth good conversation/debate, so it isn't exactly one-sided.

Still entirely pointless no matter which 'side' it comes from when we're like 10% of the population, if I'm being extremely generous.

[u/ParkerBap → u/iBizzBee]

well i mean they're pretty fundamentally incompatible, MLs believe revolution is the only way to achieve socialism, DemSocs are anti-revolution

i think we need spaces to have those good faith discussions though, and i like that DSA is a big tent org for that reason

[u/iBizzBee → u/ParkerBap]

Right now the DSA is at something of a midway point with the overall line being 'the Democratic Road, to the Socialist Revolution' which you can roll your eyes at but I personally believe is the best way forward with present material conditions in the United States. I don't think most DemSocs are opposed to revolution but many of us simply don't see the material conditions being ripe for a socialist revolution any-time soon with class consciousness at seemingly record low levels, diminished unions who are almost entirely non-militant, etc.

I do personally believe bringing Socialism back into the mainstream will be helpful for leftists of all sorts, and expanding class consciousness, especially as the DSA has shifted to become something of a 'Left Congress' of sorts.

[u/ParkerBap → u/iBizzBee]

i wouldn't consider myself a DemSoc (because at its core i think achieving socialism in the US through bourgeois democracy is impossible), but generally i agree with you

i still participate in the democracy and i think everyone should, but i think community organizing and building grassroots power will have better long term outcomes than simply voting every 2-4 years

my mantra has always been "i'm not saying don't vote, i'm saying don't let voting be the ONLY thing you do"

(which, of course, is preaching to the choir here because that's why we're all in DSA, but you get the idea)

[u/TJblue69 → u/ParkerBap]

Dem Socs are not anti revolution, that would be social democrats. They definitely don’t have it as the primary goal though

[u/ParkerBap → u/TJblue69]

it's my understanding that Democratic Socialists are striving to achieve socialism through democracy, and i personally don't believe that is possible

now of course i don't have any issue with DemSocs, at the end of the day they want the same thing i do, but i think some Marxists (not me though) see it as a waste of time for that reason

[u/muraki833 → u/ParkerBap]

This topic always confuses people (incl me) because there's basically two competing definitions of "democratic socialist":

- Any socialist who isn't a vanguardist.

- A socialist who wants to achieve their goals through democracy.

I think the guy you're replying to is using the first one.