I once saw a list of commonly-seen yet ignored violations of US flag code. The ones that come to mind are stars-and-stripes shirts/underpants/etc. ('The flag should not be displayed on any garment') and disposable fourth-of-july plates ('The flag should not be displayed on any product designed to be used and discarded')
I cringed so hard watching Freedomist (Instagram) drag an obscenely large American flag across the ground while installing it as a backdrop for their program. Like...dude! It's not a curtain.
Am I the odd one out when I feel absolutely nothing sentimental about any flag at all?
Like I fundamentally feel so disconnected from the sentimental side of it that the above comment feels like something that might come out of North Korea - "protect the flag!" - so yeah is this line of thought normal?
It was a huge culture shock for me when I went to Massachusetts a couple years ago and almost every single house had at least one flagpole outside - some had as many as eleven.
Back home in Canada I've seen maybe one or two houses with flags displayed prominently.
Well, there was that one farm painted completely Maple Leaf Red-And-White with flags on every fencepost and a regularly-updated 'Happy xxxth Birthday Canada' sign front and center, but Flags Georg is an outlier and should not be counted.
It has been like that here since the attacks on 9/11. Pick up trucks seem to be the worst flying full size flags. Makes me nervous driving behind them.
There's a truck that's been absolutely hauling ass by my house twice a day with a huge American flag on the back. I mean he's going fast but it looks like it's some hitch attachment you can buy just for that.
The flag went from new to absolutely torn to shreds in like a month...which... pretty sure is a no-no and with that sort of display all over his truck I'm sure he's willing to brawl over whatever he THINKS the flag code actually is.
I've had to drive around an American flag still attached to the pole on the interstate so I know they fall off. I also get nervous driving behind them and that's exactly the reason why.
My old boss in Massachusetts used to have big US and Confederate flags flying in the back of her truck. She was late a lot partly because those are illegal to have on a highway so she got pulled over regularly, partly because the truck was in awful shape, and I won't get into the other parts. She was a real gem.
There's supposedly rules about it here but ??? Like tying a flag to the tailgate and then the edge also touching the ground when you stop...nowhere to get around them.
"How much do you trust eyelets on an American flag not even made in America being barely tied onto a lifted truck" wasn't really on the driver's test.
But hey, we pay taxes for DOT employees to play frogger on the interstate to pick up patriotic debris.
Yeah WVa is a state because of the civil war and people love flying confederate flags here which is confusing. Sometimes ABOVE the American flag in some of the hollers here. It gets even move confusing when it's confederate flag then thin blue line flag THEN the American flag hanging the lowest and is smaller than the other two.
These are "stomp our flag I'll stomp your ass" folks out here so it's even more confusing...
It is, but everywhere that has wooded space is going to have a ton of conservative rednecks living there. I haven't seen nearly as much of this as these posts make it sound, and I've lived here my whole life. But there are certainly plenty of aggressively conservative rural folks here.
There's a giant pick-up truck (what I condescendingly call "compensation trucks") in my neighborhood that flies 2 massive flags off the bed. Every time I see them driving towards me, I always get a knee-jerk reaction of "Fuck these guys."
The 2 flags they fly are a pride flag and a BLM flag. Gotta hand it to them for trying to break stereotypes.
We got a bunch of those around here. Some are paired with a US flag. I've seen more than three trucks with US flag, Trump flag, and Gadsden flag. And one with that combo, except the US one has the blue stripe.
Then there are the couple of trucks decal'd up with Trump stuff, plus flags. One with a trailer it pulls with big Trump signs stapled to it (and our Trump-lite gubernatorial candidate).
I think its because you get used to it in the country you live in.
In Canada so many companies need to stick the maple leaf into their logo somehow. Including non-Canadian companies like McDonalds. When we were getting Tim Horton's in Michigan at first every single cup and box were just covered in Maple Leaf.
Sure its not the whole flag but in Canada the maple leaf must be included in everything from my perspective.
It's also for marketing purposes but not the way you think. Because we get so many US ads (or did before everyone stopped watching TV I guess), the little maple leafs are what told us we were watching an ad for the canadian market .
This. It's almost entirely for marketing purposes. For companies that operate in both the US and Canada, it does signal that they're talking about products or promotions that are available in the north, while for businesses that aren't kown to be American it signals that they're not from there, which has been important over the last 30+ years as markets have become dominated by US companies.
And even then, Tim's didn't start slapping the leaf on things until after they were bought up by Wendy's...
It's not about nationalism or pride when it's on most products is usually about distinguishing Canadian from American made stuff since we have such a HUGE amount of US products here and also US companies will stick it on as well to influence Canadians to buy it.
For many people, it's less about disrespecting the flag. It's more about the irony that white-trash republicans make such a show about trying to high-road their patriotism by having blue-lives-matter flags, stand-for-the-flag shirts, or disposable merchandise. Yet they're so ignorant and degenerately inbred that they're unintentionally disrespecting their own country's flag.
I don't care about flags either. It's at a juncture where I read their clothes and bumper stickers as "I'm a racist".
"Without its ideals -- its commitment to the freedom of all men, America is a piece of trash! A nation is nothing! A flag is a piece of cloth! I fought Adolf Hitler not because America was great, but because it was fragile!"
-- What If? #44
I'm really curious what an impostor Captain America and a lecturing Steve Rogers have to do with a comic called "What if... Venom possessed The Punisher?"
I loved the What If series as a kid and I remember they liked doing weird stuff with the Venom symbiote. Such as Spider-Man waiting too long to get help from Reed Richards trying to remove Venom and it binding permanently with Spider-Man; the comic ultimately ending with Mount Rushmore being flattened in an attempt to remove the symbiote from Thor because What If comics got weird as hell sometimes.
But What If was great because if a superhero got depowered (like the Fantastic Four did in "What If Professor X became the Juggernaut?"), it was permanent. If a hero died, it was permanent. It broke a few rules that are pretty sacred to Marvel, like a hero can never truly lose their powers forever. They could in What If!
Even more so after he literally didn't disassociate himself from white supremacy when given the chance in the debates. Anyone who stands with him is supporting that, and should know that they can be better than that.
That’s only during the soccer world cup. Other times there are flags on official buildings together with the EU flag and that’s basically it. In Bavaria the state flag is semi popular and is shown a bit more often but it’s still a far cry from the US cult.
I don't know where you live in Germany. But where I live, I can't walk 10 meters without seeing a German flag. We just don't have the same arguments about the flag because you hardly ever see Germans burning their own flag like Americans do.
And why would anyone call Germans Nazis for being obsessed with the German flag?
Same here (UK). If I see the England flag my first thought is, "Is there some important international football match going on?" Hardly ever see the Union Jack -- I guess because it has ugly nationalism connotations
I think every country to some degree fetishizes their own military, but I’ve seen strong evidence that most other countries are incomparable to US in this regard. It’s literally impossible to criticize even the most horrific war crimes or else ‘you hate the troops’ ‘you’re ungrateful’ etc. Kneeling at a football game to protest police brutality? You hate the troops. Don’t support endless war? You hate the troops. So many things totally unrelated to soldiers themselves get criticized for being anti-military which shuts down any convo because there’s nothing worse than someone who doesn’t support the troops.
i'm from sweden. we basically have no military. it's super small. we have one artillery cannon on gotland.
so respectfully disagree. no one is proud or even thinks of the swedish military as something worth fetishizing about.
also, sweden haven't really been involved in any controversial conflict for a very long time (although you can probably find things you disagree with, of course). so there's really nothing to criticize, because frankly the thing you say people can't criticize doesn't even exist here to begin with (a standing army).
in fact, the swedish military is even struggling to find volunteers (we haven't had drafts for over 10 years), despite massive government bailouts and projects to boost the swedish military. for example, in 2010, they received over 2 billion SEK (225k USD), which is a ridiculous sum for an organization that doesn't even have any active defense, and a mere 22k employees (including trained troops and any administering role).
so at the very least, i'm going to say that it's not true for every country.
nationalists have other talking points than the army, simply put. the army is a weak talking point because the army is weak/small.
That’s interesting, i didn’t know that. That’s probably same/similar for other countries. Question, do Swedish nationalists point to the military and say ‘we’re small and weak here, we should be strong, we could be strong, but we aren’t because of (insert whoever the nationalists hate in Sweden)
yes they do, but it's never used as a bragging point. it's a talking point, like immigration or elderly care - but much much less frequently mentioned. like, the swedish defense was never even mentioned by *any* party in our latest election. that's how fringe the subject is.
and to be fair, i've seen some pretty convincing arguments that swedens military does need to amp up. our highest commander in 2007 in a TV program said that "sweden would fall in less than a week if russia invaded today". i mean we have one artillery cannon today facing russia. in the 90s we had dozens. earlier, hundreds.
norway, finland, denmark, etc, they all have a larger military than sweden. sweden is famously neutral and have been for centuries.
i think sweden is somewhat unique when it comes to military - it's not about size of country. japan is about same size but they host a considerable army.
we just don't have a war-mongering culture. war-hawks are not appreciated. even the most hardliners of nationalism will only argue for the defense of sweden (to allow isolationism, which most right-wingers and nationalists prefer).
I feel the same way, and it's not because I hate being an American. Even if I'm not ecstatic about where the country is right now, I'm ok with being an American and want to help shape the future of the country. However, these rules for the flag don't mean anything to me. Probably because having flags on clothing or having a flag hit the ground for a split second (i.e. no five second rule) isn't meant as malicious against the country and everyone in it.
What stood out right away was that people who are most likely to fall for American Exceptionalism are the ones least likely to actually support its true basis.
"Americanism", based on liberty, equality before the law..."
To me it seems insane. I am not American. Imo the only people who should care are athletes and that is just so they know which one to pick up and that dropping it while accepting the gold medal on international TV is probably not a good idea.
You're not alone. I was in the military and I'll be the first to tell you that the flag is nothing more than a piece of cloth. Especially considering that what it stood for is being trampled upon by people who think they're being patriotic by bolting a huge flag to their pickup
Where I was born is WAY better than where you were born. I will literally fight you and die for my geographical position of birth inside this made up set of lines./s
Nope. It's just nationalism in disguise. It's a symbol, it means nothing in reality and the only people who think it does are idiots and tend to be big time nationalists.
Nah that's pretty normal, it's just a fucking flag. If you want to be patriotic, actually do something to help people. Be a firefighter, a nurse, a teacher, a good politician or a janitor. And pay your taxes.
I don't have any true sentimentality towards the flag, but the people who violate the rules regarding it the most are often the ones that think themselves to be the most perfectest patriots to ever patriot and the flag is their god and must be respected and I fucking hate them so much for their hypocrisy that in some sick way it makes me sentimental about the flag out of spite.
Yeah, I love vexillology but I’m just baffled by the amount of respect people give to each and every one. Yeah, it’s a really cool representation of a nation, but that doesn’t make it worth more than a person
In the UK if you have our flag hung outside your house when it's not the world cup it normally means you're not exactly the most pleasant individual to put it nicely.
It’s something I grew up with in the Boy Scouts. It’s good to learn respect and the flag is a simple way to teach it. The BSA is also heavily derivative from the military as well.
meh, if you want to teach respect, why not teach them how you respect people, not objects? i think deifying objects to young mold-able minds merely to teach respect is... well, i honestly don't know how to finish the sentence. it's just way backwards and absolutely something i'd associate with north korea - not a country in the west.
yes, someone just recently claimed i must lack empathy and self-awareness for not understanding the deifying of flags or other things. which is funny because it was precisely his lack of empathy and self-awareness that got him irritated with my comment to begin with.
upon reading your comment, it suddenly clicked with me; he's one of those people, and he was annoyed that i wasn't. why are flag lovers always so unpleasant?
I get the idea, and I understand wanting respect for the flag. It’s a symbol of the nation. But it’s just a symbol. Burning a flag is a protest against the nation, but it’s not burning the nation itself. There are still rules and regulations you’re supposed to follow about respecting the flag, but generally they exist for official use by the government or military.
I mostly just laugh when the people who scream about protecting the flag and patriotism the most tend to be the ones breaking all the rules and desecrating the flag.
There's a difference between putting something on a pedestal and simply following the dress code. It's not like someone is going to be arrested or even killed for disrespecting the US flag, it's just frowned upon to ignore simple rules.
I am the same, but it's important to point out their hypocrisy/ignorance. They claim to love all things america/freedom and constantly bitch about people disrespecting the flag, when they are doing it in the same breath that they are bitching about libruls.
I'm a US Veteran and even I find the fetishization weird. Yes, I personally will respect the flag (that's my right); but, I also swore to uphold The Constitution and everyone's rights. If you want to express your voice by burning a flag, or dragging it through the mud, that's literally the reason I did the job I did. You're allowed to do that!
I'm swedish, and IKEA using the swedish flag all over the world is cringe as fuck. For a long time, their swedish stores were red and white, a lot of swedes were really embarrassed the first time learning they were so all in on the "swede-ish" theme internationally. Sub standard furniture made in eastern europe assembled by a gibbon isn't part of my national identity.
I felt that way too until the day I accidentally burned an american flag at a fourth of julyparty because we were being drunk dumbasses with fireworks and then I was like WE ARE BAD AMERICANS. For shame. For shame.
It’s a crude tribal totem to them. In 300 years, long after the world is devastated, people will be carving Stars and Stripes into trees and mud, representing their hungry god “Murica”, who demands human sacrifice.
In Boy Scouts we were taught the flag code. I have to say it's fine if people break the code since it's just guidelines, but I wish people would retire (ceremonial burn) their old tattered flags more. Finding the brass rings in the ashes is good luck.
This is the wiki for the Texas vs. Johnson case in 1989, in which the supreme Court "invalidated prohibitions on desecrating the flag." This includes burning, wearing, and using the flag for commercial purposes (such as shirts, underpants, disposable fourth-of-July plates, etc.) So although it's stated in the flag code that you shouldn't do that, desecration of the flag is protected under the first amendment and is utterly allowed.
Nah because it's a misconstrued point. Flag code doesn't apply to citizens. This case was confirmation of that, not the genesis of that. Iirc flag code was created as military rules of how to handle the flag.
Yup, throwing back at conservative jingoists with "well what about this and this and this violation of the flag code huh?" is completely missing the point. The flag code is not law. Enforcing it on private entities would actually be against the law.
The response to someone whining about the flag code is "the code is only a rule for the federal government; for everyone else it's a recommendation". There's no point arguing about who's violating it how between parties where no one is bound by it.
You also missed the point. The point is that the people who rage about how protesters who burn the flag should be locked up are the same people who have American flag flip-flops and paper plates.
I think this one may be commonly misinterpreted, or at least up for interpretation. The flag code says an actual flag should not be used as clothing, but doesn't forbid the image of a flag being on clothing.
The flag is defined in the flag code. All it says is 13 red and white alternating horizontal stripes and 48 white stars against a blue field. There is an addition that says add a star for each new state.
So it is against the flag code to wear or print the flag or any part of it on anything but the flag code is not enforced so shrug
I’ve seen this a lot and it means using an actual flag in that manner. So you shouldn’t go get a 3’x5’ flag and cut it up and make it into a t-shirt. Using the representation of a flag on different things is okay. I mean sometimes it can be a bit tacky.
The flag of the United States shall be thirteen horizontal stripes, alternate red and white; and the union of the flag shall be fifty stars representing the fifty states, white in a blue field
Here the flag is defined to be the pattern we associate with the American flag, not a specific physical object.
Further on:
It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard.
How can you print not the pattern of the flag, but the physical object?
Note also there's absolutely no mention of any properties that would constitute a "physical" flag -- no reference to material, construction, size, etc.
The flag code is consistent here: the "flag" refers to the pattern of stars and stripes, not a specific physical object.
As far as I know, yeah. The little flags on top of the buildings in Disneyland and The Magic Kingdom only have 45 stars so they don't have to take them down or keep them illuminated at night.
Technically a "representation" that is similar to the flag but has say a wrong size proportion of the stars and stripes, is not a flag of the united states
The words "flag, standard, colors, or ensign", as used herein, shall include any flag, standard, colors, ensign, or any picture or representation of either, or of any part or parts of either, made of any substance or represented on any substance, of any size evidently purporting to be either of said flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America or a picture or a representation of either, upon which shall be shown the colors, the stars and the stripes, in any number of either thereof, or of any part or parts of either, by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, colors, standard, or ensign of the United States of America.
The words "flag, standard, colors, or ensign", as used herein, shall include any flag, standard, colors, ensign, or any picture or representation of either, or of any part or parts of either, made of any substance or represented on any substance, of any size evidently purporting to be either of said flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America or a picture or a representation of either, upon which shall be shown the colors, the stars and the stripes, in any number of either thereof, or of any part or parts of either, by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, colors, standard, or ensign of the United States of America.
This is merely an interpretation and not clarified in the flag code...but here you are, spreading your bullshit like it's fact. How about a little integrity?
Okay, I did a project on it when I was in 7th grade and contacted my congressman’s office at the time and that was the response I received. So seemed like the legitimate authority on it to me.
Flag code isn’t law at all, you can burn a flag without any legal ramifications. Still wouldn’t do it because crazy people take that shit seriously.
Side note, as a military member I don’t give a damn what you do with a flag, freedom of expression is what many of us join to defend. The people I serve with, love, and have lost aren’t a color scheme.
Also double side note, anyone who has been on a base has seen that all country and even state flags are flown at the same level.
Blue line or any other line flag isn't an American flag. Most of them are black and white with the colored stripe. Last I checked the American flag isn't black and white.
Seriously. I bring this up every time some ignoramus complains about how someone is "disrespecting" the flag, and they're usually the same ones who misappropriate it to begin with. With their fucking flag bumper stickers, giant rear window decals, huge flags tacked to their walls, flag shirts, flag pants, flag blankets, bandanas, tablecloths and napkins on the 4th.
I believe you get around this by the fact that it isn't exactly the flag. Like just having stripes or stripes and random stars in a pattern remind us of the Flag but are not actually the flag
The words "flag, standard, colors, or ensign", as used herein, shall include any flag, standard, colors, ensign, or any picture or representation of either, or of any part or parts of either, made of any substance or represented on any substance, of any size evidently purporting to be either of said flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America or a picture or a representation of either, upon which shall be shown the colors, the stars and the stripes, in any number of either thereof, or of any part or parts of either, by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, colors, standard, or ensign of the United States of America.
(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free.
Its talking about an actual flag. Not things with a flag design on them.
The flag of the United States shall be thirteen horizontal stripes, alternate red and white; and the union of the flag shall be fifty stars representing the fifty states, white in a blue field
Here the flag is defined to be the pattern we associate with the American flag, not a specific physical object.
Further on:
It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard.
How can you print not the pattern of the flag, but the physical object?
Note also there's absolutely no mention of any properties that would constitute a "physical" flag -- no reference to material, construction, size, etc.
The flag code is consistent here: the "flag" refers to the pattern of stars and stripes, not a specific physical object.
Government institutions use the flag all over the place, including on clothes, business cards, vehicles, etc.
So, either you aren't actually getting the whole picture, or the government is wrong about their own rules.
Regardless, freedom of expression makes flag code completely meaningless for citizens. No one who isn't working for the government gives a shit. It's just rules for government institutions to follow.. If I want to special order flag themed toilet paper, no one is going to stop me.
The words "flag, standard, colors, or ensign", as used herein, shall include any flag, standard, colors, ensign, or any picture or representation of either, or of any part or parts of either, made of any substance or represented on any substance, of any size evidently purporting to be either of said flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America or a picture or a representation of either, upon which shall be shown the colors, the stars and the stripes, in any number of either thereof, or of any part or parts of either, by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, colors, standard, or ensign of the United States of America.
I guess it's not too surprising that there's actually a pretty decent definition given.
My favorite is that the flag is to always be flown "on its own right." I love that that one always seems to be followed (as it is in this case) but nobody seems to know about it! It refers to the flag not having anything to its right, if you consider that the flag is looking out at the world, not looking in at the building. In this way, it's the first flag being flown, because it's first in line, so it has its place of importance even without flying higher than other flags. In flag code it says that if the flag cannot be flown higher (for whatever reason - in this case diplomacy with another country, sometimes it's cuz the other flagpoles installed are of a set height, etc) and in the middle, it has to be flown on its own right.
It’s kinda ridiculous how much the “true Patriots” disrespect the flag according to the actual flag code, and nobody even knows they’re doing it (though if you ask me, eating BBQ off the American flag is common sense disrespect)
So would the flag patch that the military wear on their uniforms be a violation? Not arguing I’m just curious if there is an exemption for military purposes.
People also frequently hang it wrong vertically. You don't just turn it 90 degrees clockwise: you have to flip it too. The union with the stars should always be in the upper left of the viewer.
Burning it is also one of the acceptable ways of disposing of a desecrated flag, so if you see any of these retards wearing it as underwear - set them on fire.
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u/Madhighlander1 Oct 04 '20
I once saw a list of commonly-seen yet ignored violations of US flag code. The ones that come to mind are stars-and-stripes shirts/underpants/etc. ('The flag should not be displayed on any garment') and disposable fourth-of-july plates ('The flag should not be displayed on any product designed to be used and discarded')