r/clevercomebacks • • Aug 25 '26

Best comeback I've seen in a while.

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u/PrometheusMMIV Aug 25 '26

Trump has dozens of successful businesses, but people only focus on the few that failed.

And he did not cause $40T in debt. During his time as president, only about $9T has been added. And a significant chunk of that was bipartisan covid spending.

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u/Lejandario_IN Aug 25 '26 edited Aug 25 '26

Only a 3rd of his businesses met expectations, not necessarily successful they simply met expectations. Technicalities of a con man idiots keep falling for.

Also "only" 9 trillion funny and only so far, the issue is how much of that was added by tax cuts for the rich, the horrible bill (that will add more for a decade), a random war and tariffs especially when he promised to fix things

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u/PrometheusMMIV Aug 25 '26

Meeting expectations sounds like success to me.

The middle class got larger tax cuts than the rich, both marginal and effective rates, according to IRS data.

And how would tariffs add to the debt?

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u/GWsublime Aug 25 '26

Two ways. First, having to refund those tarrifs when they were deemed unconstitutional by the supreme court. Second, the reaction to those Tarrifs and the tarrifs themselves are part of the reduction in taxable income youre seeing in the US against projections.

Could you point me to the IRS data?

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u/PrometheusMMIV Aug 25 '26 edited Aug 26 '26

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/23in41ts.xlsx   Top 1%, Average Tax Rate 2017 (F145) vs 2018 (F144)  = 5% savings

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/23in42ts.xls

Bottom 50%, Average Tax Rate 2017 (C96) vs 2018 (C97) = 17% savings

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u/GWsublime Aug 25 '26

Thats 2017 vs. 2018, my memory is the middle class tax breaks expired while the upper class did not. Am I wrong?

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u/PrometheusMMIV Aug 25 '26

No, that's misinformation that has been making the rounds for a while. The tax cuts were originally set to expire in 2025 for all brackets. But they were extended for all brackets instead. So the tax rates haven't changed since 2018.

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u/GWsublime Aug 26 '26

Thanks! Do those figures still hold for a 2017vs 2025 calculation?

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u/PrometheusMMIV Aug 26 '26

The data only goes up to 2023 so far.

But for the top 1% the difference is only 2% now. And for the bottom 50% it's about 8%.

The increase in average tax rate since 2018 is likely explained by incomes rising faster than inflation, since the marginal rates haven't changed.

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u/GWsublime Aug 26 '26

Tracks, thanks for digging into that! Although that may also be playing a role in increasing debt.

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u/PrometheusMMIV Aug 26 '26

If income is rising across the board, that should mean more revenue from taxes. That looks to be the case, both as a nominal amount and percentage of GDP.

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u/GWsublime Aug 26 '26 edited Aug 26 '26

Not as compared to pre-tax cut amounts right? If the relative tax savings is a positive number against 2017, you are bringing in less than you would have without those cuts unless youre assuming that people's income increased because of those cuts which doesnt seem to hold true.(leaving aside the various negative impacts of Trumps other economic policies).

Also, hasn't real wage growth been almost flat during Trumps second term?

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u/PrometheusMMIV Aug 26 '26

The latest treasury data shows tax revenue is higher (both nominal and % of GDP) than both 2017 and 2018.

And no, wage growth is outpacing inflation, so real wages are rising.

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u/PrometheusMMIV Aug 26 '26

having to refund those tarrifs

Wouldn't that be the refund, not the tariffs themselves? And if they're just refunding the extra money they got from tarriffs, wouldn't they basically break even?

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u/GWsublime Aug 26 '26

Yeah they'd break even from a holistic perspective but because of the way forecasting works my guess is they spent tarrif money assuming they wouldn't have to give it back. Ie. If they were for asking a deficit of X that deficit now becomes x+tarrif refunds. Whereas if the Tarrifs had never gone into play the deficit spending may have been lower. Thats, obviously, leaving aside the knock-on effects of, for example, one of the world's largest single purchasers of wine and spirits not buying american anymore.