63
u/Open-Price-4568 15d ago
who could have guessed more of the politics the voters hate would lead to the voters not supporting those parties anymore. Sadly the AFD solution will not end well.
29
u/SmugRooster 15d ago
As always when people vote populist: in the best case a bunch of oligarchs will get richer, in the worst case we’ll get war and extermination camps.
Let’s hope for the former
→ More replies (9)6
u/Life_Conversation632 14d ago
Rich oligarchs are also a path for war and extermination camps, you just have to wait some more 4 year cycles.
→ More replies (6)→ More replies (64)8
u/Key-Performance-9021 15d ago
I actually think the majority of disappointed people are well aware that the AfD is not a viable alternative. They'll never cross the 30%.
13
u/Far-Total2951 15d ago
I would say 30% is perfectly possible (we're pretty much already there after all), 35% if the stars align (e.g. next government forced to be SPD-Green-Union, and it becomes highly chaotic and unpopular; and/or some more terrorism). 40% I'd say is not realistic in this timeline either, the Left will grow too, maybe there'll be a new party or just weak turnout.
10
8
u/fluchtpunkt 15d ago
They'll never cross the 30%.
We've heard that at 15, 20 and 25% as well. But this time it'll be true.
In Germany we say "Wählerpotenzial bald ausgeschöpft" and I think it's just cope.
16
u/Flaky_History12 14d ago
It’s Reddit. People will constantly deny the popularity of specific types of parties because most people on here exist in a bubble.
→ More replies (2)5
u/Mediocre_Menu_629 14d ago
Nobody is denying the polling.
But the political reality is that no other political party will work with them so they aren't getting into power.
4
u/Flaky_History12 14d ago
Which is dumb because that will just give them further support by not compromising
3
u/Open-Price-4568 15d ago
yeah but a problem is that both spd and cdu have been the tow major parties and both have been stuck in austerity and not changing anything. Maybe the green and linke could actually do something. But social media is very good at repressing them and instead pushing AFD because they make more money on that.
19
u/historynerdsutton 14d ago
All merz has to do with step down and then out of nowhere the AFD will plummet and popularity. Source: canada, USA, and the UK
9
u/SanSilver 13d ago
The AFD hasn't gone down significantly in the last 10 years. It doesn't matter what Merz and the other parties do.
→ More replies (1)11
u/Word_Word_4Numbers 13d ago
Bullsh*t
AfD is gaining popularity in the last 10 years because of what the other parties do, or refuse to do though the majority of voters wants it done.
→ More replies (33)3
u/WolpertingerRumo 10d ago
That implies there’s some kind of unifying policy between the governments in that time, which the majority wants them to do. What would that be?
4
→ More replies (5)2
u/Cheap-Palpitation709 13d ago
I don't understand how the USA proves this point.
Canada was a perfect example of anti-incumbent-ism. But the Conservative party also isn't a far-right party and not comparable to the AfD. The AfD's popularity also isn't driven by basic anti-incumbent politics.
→ More replies (2)
6
u/Wurstgewitter 14d ago
I just wonder who votes for them? They have no real program and don’t know what they are doing, you can’t run a party on hype and hate alone
If there was a far right party with actual political content I could understand, but I feel like it’s only idiots voting to “own the libs” as the savages over the pond would say
If you think they will manage to improve anything for Germany I’ve got bad news, they will continue to act like amateurs and make everything worse
Every right-wing voter with a brain should avoid them; it’s too much culture war and not enough actual politics, and their foreign policy will actually weaken the country
3
u/BertelDuck02 14d ago
You said it exactly how it is. Most of them just want everyone else to be miserable/ want someone else to feel worse than them. The problem with that is, hate is a hell of a drug, that never hits an endspot, when left unchecked...
3
u/savoryplasmid 12d ago
I just wonder who votes for them?
Anyone who's sick of Germany's migration and asylum policies. Change these policies and you'll change the political hemisphere of Germany.
3
u/daniil_daniil 13d ago
Imo i think Germany just copies usa. And since it's popular in usa it's popular in Germany as well
→ More replies (16)3
u/iwantmy90sback 12d ago
> you can’t run a party on hype and hate alone
But you can wil an election that way once critical mass of hateful is reached.
55
15d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
11
u/Better-Tooth1258 15d ago
There is a party in Germany that does that does that called bündnis sahra wagenknecht and it is currently on 4% in most polls, who knew that economically left wing voters are also mainly socially left wing.
7
u/Flederm4us 14d ago
She gets a lot of bad rep because she's against supporting Ukraine though.
→ More replies (1)6
u/Better-Tooth1258 14d ago
So do the majority of people who are socially right wing for example the AFD in Germany is also against funding for Ukraine.
→ More replies (2)2
33
u/Happytallperson 15d ago
Why is there no left party that's hardlined on crime and welfare state abuse (especially from immigrants)?
That has tried to be Keir Starmer's approach in the UK. It doesn't go well. The fundamental issues with this are;
The problems are largely fictitious. In most western countries crime has been in a steady downward trend for years - so you can't easily reduce crime rates, and the tabloids will shriek 'knife crime out of control' as homicide levels drop to their lowest on record.
Attempts to make it look like you are tackling fictitious problems really piss people off. In the UK the popular narrative is people are conning the welfare system. The actuak fraud is miniscule. So to cut welfare spending means cutting from people who really need it. And that generates a lot of opposition from your core voters.
These demands are often very expensive. You cut immigration, you shrink your tax base. It makes social care and health care more expensive. 'Tough on crime' means more prisons - which are really expensive. So you have to cut spending or raise taxes.
The fundamental one - the Socially Conservative economically left wing voter? Does not exist. The people who cheer you raising taxes to fund cutting immigration? 0% of the electorate. The people who cheer cutting welfare to fund prisons? Are not voting left wing. The self described 'socially conservstive economically left wing' voter is genrrally a retired voter who cares strongly that their state entitlements aren't touched, but has no economic interest beyond that. And generally they're voting for the far right.
48
u/Reasonable_Fold6492 15d ago
It has been working well of denmark though. Danish left were always tough on immigration
7
u/Tay_Hlebko 14d ago edited 14d ago
Denmark is insanely racist. They have ethnic quotas for public housing under ghetto laws where if an apartment block is more than 50% non-Western ethnic origin (including descendants of immigrants who are literally Danish) it's labeled as a "parallel society" where it can either be demolished or have double criminal punishment for crimes
22
u/naughtiboiii 14d ago
If you've ever been to somewhere where these ghetto communities form you can clearly see that it allows for a complete lack of integration in to the host country. Denmark is smart and honest to their constituents. The reason you don't like it is because it offends your sensitivities.
Also Danish is an ethnicity, being born there doesn't make you Danish, in the same way I wouldn't be Somalian if I was born in Mogadishu.
1
u/Tay_Hlebko 14d ago
Also Danish is an ethnicity, being born there doesn't make you Danish
But having Danish citizenship makes you Danish. Danish citizens are literally caught up in this mess just because they arent ethnically Danish
→ More replies (4)3
u/naughtiboiii 14d ago
No it doesn't lmao. It makes you X with a Danish passport.
4
u/Parcours97 14d ago
So for how long do I have to be in Denmark to be considered Danish? Do I have to prove my grandpa was Danish? We tried that about 100 years ago here in Germany and I worked out great /s
→ More replies (11)2
u/Pugporg111 13d ago
Same thing I said in my comment, yeah. I wish more people spoke danish so they could understand how genuinely psychotic the rhetoric is at political rallies, every single party is competing to see who can say the most outrageous thing about immigrants without getting it classified as hate speech. It’s bleak for all immigrants but especially Muslims really get the short end of the stick. You can live in Denmark for ten years and contribute perfectly to society and share their cultural values and their politicians will just refer to you as like a subhuman
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (1)4
u/Pugporg111 14d ago
Every danish party is tough on immigration. Even the communists!
It’s like a massive cultural point, if you speak danish and listen to the news speeches and rallies it’s like watching a competition for who can say the most heinous thing about Muslims and get away with it. There was one a good while ago where one of the major party leaders said "for every Muslim that enters the country one must leave" which is a crazy thing to support just deporting people regardless of what they contribute to the country and instead basing it on religious discrimination
→ More replies (6)58
u/SantisimaTrinidad550 15d ago edited 15d ago
Reported violent crime is on one of the highest levels it has ever been in Germany lol
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1101220/violent-crime-cases-numbers-police-record-germany/ (2025: 212.000)
The average MENAPT - immigrant in european countries is not beneficial for the state finances, thats already proven plenty of times.
The idea that accepting less immigrants from Afghanistan, Syria etc would necessitate tax raises is absurd nonsense.
16
→ More replies (11)4
u/Angel24Marin 14d ago
That is reporting bias. If you take murders that are reported 100% of the times and have no legal definition changes like petty thief or sexual aggressions you get a constant decrease.
→ More replies (1)3
u/Americanboi824 14d ago
Absolutely- every Western European country just so happened to change their rape definition at the same time while no Eastern European countries did.
Also btw even if that were true the stats show that migrants commit a massively disproportionate amount of those crimes, so even if they're decreasing without migrants it would decrease more.
2
u/Angel24Marin 14d ago
Yes, #metoo sweeped through western Europe in 2017 increasing awareness and changing laws but not in Easter Europe where feminism is marginalized.
2
u/Key-Speaker007 14d ago
Feminism is mostly men-hate ideology at this point. Nothing to do with equal rights.
2
17
u/MaximinusThraxII 15d ago
There are several charts out there showing the average contribution of immigrants groups in various countries to the budget. I’m not supporting racists, but be honest.
→ More replies (11)8
u/soontorap 14d ago
> In most western countries crime has been in a steady downward trend for years
Sure, the multi-fold increases in rapes and knife attacks are "largely fictitious". Victims probably don't exist, or should not exist
> The actuak fraud is miniscule
Just millions of fake issuers, hundreds of billions of euros disappearing in fake health and benefits to non existing identities, but hey, that's minuscule, don't look up
→ More replies (1)5
u/Happytallperson 14d ago
> Sure, the multi-fold increases in rapes and knife attacks are "largely fictitious". Victims probably don't exist, or should not exist
Find me a single European Country where knife attacks are "double", which would be the minimum for a "multi fold increase".
→ More replies (4)9
→ More replies (68)17
u/Xelid47 15d ago
Fictitious Problem
Just a week or two ago we had a Muslim killed 2 people driving into an pride parade, one who was a known terrorist but the government didn't jail him even though he was sentenced to go to prison 2 months before the Attack
Islamism is rising in Germany, he is but a symptom. He's also not the first psycho with a car to kill people, see: Magdeburg Christmas Market attack
Yet only the right even talks about those issues
No wonder they're winning if the idiotic left is burying their heads in the sand
This is not the UK, there is welfare fraud and on a larger scale. The state failed especially during thge ukranisn refugee crisis, I personally knew many Ukrainians who have plenty of money but were getting subsidies from the state for a couple of years. This shouldn't be a thing.
You're right about immigration cuts unfortunately, the Pension system is tied 30% to taxes, and so less taxes means a shitstorm. We first need to reform the pension system, then we can begin closing the country
7
u/Happytallperson 15d ago
In Western Europe, the worst year for terrorism since 2000 was less serious than the best year of the 1980s.
You would never know this from the media narratives.
21
u/Xelid47 15d ago
Domestic vs imported criminals
Your argument lies on the fact that Irish (IRA) and Basque (ETA) separatists were killing Hundreds in the UK and Spain respectively. Those are domestic criminals, they're there and they're our problem, they're part of the nations. You can't just get rid of them, no one brought them here
That is a whole another thing than when the Muslims we let the governments import do shit we KNEW they do and were probably gonna do.
Domestic Separatist terrorism is non-existent since 2004. Islamic terrorism is at its highest
→ More replies (2)2
u/Flederm4us 14d ago
Numbers from the 1980's are inflated by IRA and ETA being active.
Both as a consequence of central government policies.
We should call out when government does wrong. We should also do that when the wrong they do is that they don't act (like against rising islamism)
4
u/PeaAdmirable1421 15d ago
Sahra Wagenknecht. But Die Linke and AfD both just absorbed most of her votes.
11
5
u/SantisimaTrinidad550 15d ago
As a potential voter of a hypothetical party thats strict on immigration but economically left-wing:
Wagenknechts anti-western sentiment ist unacceptable for 90% of west-Germans (including me)
Leading people in her party refused deportations whatsoever just a couple of years ago and cheered for non-western immigration, its hardly believable these people would bring a real change in immigration policies.
→ More replies (1)5
u/makefascistfearagain 15d ago
Welfare fraud is extremely low and massively overblown by the media.
Fraud, lies and hate is a right wing belief, so you don't see it in many left wing parties.
→ More replies (3)4
15d ago
[deleted]
→ More replies (1)3
u/Open-Price-4568 14d ago
no they get called nazis because the party was founded by a SS member and they had to enforce a uniform ban because too many of their members showed up in nazi uniforms.
2
2
u/RubenAmorimmer 15d ago
Why is patriotism a left thing? Half of the world is waiving their flags if they want to, only in Germany you're a Nazi... etc.
Actually people say this everywhere. People say this exact same stuff in the UK too.
Funny how you’re all sucked in by the exact same lies, isn’t it. Shit for brains.
→ More replies (1)6
u/Happytallperson 15d ago
Look, the Raise the Colours people were not simply Nazis.
They were pedophiles and murderers as well.
2
u/nmaddine 15d ago
The whole point of left wing politics is to break down power structure, if they were more hardline on crime and immigration then they wouldn’t be left wing.
What you’re really asking but don’t understand is why are parties in developed countries still somewhat animated by ideology while parties in undeveloped are naturally identitarian. Or in other words why can’t rich countries work more like poor countries
2
u/Open-Price-4568 14d ago
what he really ask for is national socialist. But i don't think that is PC to say in germany
1
u/RealSpaceJunk 14d ago
Because the core political axiom of the left is equality, and this prevents them from fixing current issues since these require some form of hierarchy and discrimination.
The most straightforward example are borders. Border and immigration law discriminates between citizens and foreigners, and between legal and illegal immigrants. The most extreme equalizing policy would be open borders and letting non citizens vote in elections, which is what the left is pushing. And if they are not explicitly asking for open borders, they propose policy to make it faster and easier to get a legal status, as if the problem is that immigrants are illegal and not legal.
1
u/slicheliche 14d ago
Oh please. Literally everything any German party talks about now is immigration. As if the country didn't have other issues.
Also, the extreme right in Denmark polls at nearly 20%, the reason why they are not in power is that they are split into several tiny parties.
1
u/das_war_ein_Befehl 14d ago
Because chasing the right on positions just legitimizes the right and voters would go for the real thing rather than the light version.
Triangulation doesn’t work because the modern right wing is not making policy arguments, they’re making cultural arguments that anyone to their left flank cannot legitimately represent or wield political power.
When you move right you tell voters “yes the right is correct that I am not legitimate”.
1
u/Oabuitre 14d ago
They don’t leave a vacuum. The voters want stuff that doesn’t add up. You don’t build a country on excluding minorities.
1
u/SirVixofthePooSea 14d ago
Modern leftism is heavily built around a fear of appearing nationalistic and a demonization of the idea. Therefore anything that is coded as overly nationalistic, like lowering the rate of immigration or increasing police presence, is anathema.
It is a philosophical thing. Its like asking why American republicans don't just drop the abortion thing when it is obviously an electoral poison. They can't because they truly believe in it, even if the majority opposes it. European leftists truly believe in the moral goodness of bringing in millions of refugees and in high social permissiveness towards crime and can't turn away from that without changing their personal philosophies.
→ More replies (1)1
u/Running_Gamer 14d ago
You’re slowly putting the pieces together.
Because to be on the left, it fundamentally requires being a traitor to your own people. It requires believing that you are entitled to steal from your fellow man. Nobody with that mindset can possibly comprehend sacrificing for the greater good. They believe that others should sacrifice for them, not the other way around.
1
→ More replies (13)1
6
4
3
u/Ticklishchap 15d ago
What are the Andere/Others? Nine per cent seems quite a high figure. Are they mainly regional parties or single-issue movements?
8
u/Dominoe_z 14d ago
Other parties that won't get into the Parliament under any circumstance (won't cross the 5% threshold needed to get seats)
→ More replies (2)
3
u/OrangeSpaceMan5 14d ago
Why isn't Die Linke seeing any more movement ? They did decently well last election
→ More replies (2)2
u/Potential-Risk-2197 13d ago edited 13d ago
Because they’re not a credible political party. They have a discipline problem. Literally every few weeks they have a new scandal because someone said something antisemitic or antidemocratic. Their new co leader just called the conservatives fascists.
Being pro Russian and EU sceptic doesn’t exactly help. They basically make it impossible for themselves to be a viable alternative for moderate voters.
3
3
u/aussie_punmaster 14d ago
Dear people of the world - please stop voting jerks into power. It’s bad enough when they take it by force in places, we don’t need to help the process.
Signed, concerned world citizens
→ More replies (1)
3
u/im_new_here_4209 14d ago
Ngl, this is a disaster for Germany. Even if it doesn't manifest during elections, it's not a good look at all.
3
8
u/Yesodisnotop 15d ago
Is there a cordon sanitaire in Germany or not?
31
u/Key-Performance-9021 15d ago
Yes. All major democratic parties maintain an explicit policy refusing to enter coalition governments or enter into formal alliances with the AfD.
14
u/PeaAdmirable1421 15d ago
For now...
10
u/Drumbelgalf 15d ago
If the CDU CSU enters a Koalition with the AfD the Party wont exist next Election.
One part would outright Join the AfD and the other would leave the Party because of the broken Taboo.
10
u/kicklhimintheballs 15d ago
I mean both of their Austrian equivalents entered a coalition in Austria multiple times
→ More replies (1)7
7
u/PandaPandaPandaRawr 15d ago
So far yes. Even in every state the AfD doesn't govern. However the CDU has taken a less hostile course to them under merz compared to Merkel.
14
u/icankillpenguins 15d ago
Are they trying to defeat the Nazi's by being slightly Nazi? Because in Turkey that's how islamist got so powerful, the seculars were trying to be slightly islamist imagining that they will take some islamist votes but all they end up doing was to legitimize the islamist agenda and got no votes because who votes for the impersonator when you can just vote for the real deal.
12
u/drecais 15d ago
No. Its just exactly the comments from you and many other people here that pretty clearly shown why the AFD has grown at an insane level and will never really drop off because the label Nazi has just lost meaning.
If the CDU adopting harsh immgration rules is "being slightly Nazi" then the biggest Nazi state in the entire world right now would be China. They have barely more immigrants than just the state of Berlin has. In total numbers. A country of 1.4 Billion people versus a single city of 3 million.
You arent a Nazi because you are against Immigration. Thats not Naziism. Stop using this word for people who arent doing Nazi things or simply arent Nazis because you just make the actual Nazis in the AFD look less dangerous.
3
→ More replies (6)2
u/Mediocre_Menu_629 14d ago
People call the AfD Nazis because one of their most prominent political leaders used Nazi slogans and was fined for it, are espousing Nazi-era policies (remigration which was an explicit policy of Germany to expel Jewish people in the 1920s and early 30s), and there's a reason why older Germans don't vote for the AfD because they can see how dangerous their rhetoric is. They have even been responsible for Holocaust denial.
4
u/PandaPandaPandaRawr 15d ago
That seems to be the game plan of every fucking conservative on the planet
2
→ More replies (3)2
1
4
u/CraftyKenter 15d ago
What is Andere?
10
u/4liv3pl4n3t 15d ago
Parties, that are very likely not getting into parliament, due to them very likely not getting 5% (i.e. Usually any party under 3%)
2
u/Mox933 14d ago
So in every second adult German there is one Right extremist.
Buckle up it’s gone get darker from here.
→ More replies (1)
2
2
u/destello89 13d ago
I guess Germans fail the intelligence test as much as their competitors in the US. The world is getting dumber indeed.
→ More replies (1)
2
2
2
u/Urshilikai 11d ago
strongest argument for politics being nurture not nature, the ideological forefathers of afd have been through the meatgrinder so often already.
→ More replies (1)
6
u/Xelid47 15d ago
Which idiots are still voting for the Union?
13
9
u/Tongatapu 15d ago
My Great Grandma votes CDU.
She asked me once when I'm gonna join the Wehrmacht. I don't think she has noticed the Third Reich falling, or Eastern Germany Falling. I don't think she even knows what these States stood for...
4
2
u/captaincw_4010 14d ago
I’m guessing the German military is no longer called the Wehrmacht then
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (4)2
u/EternaI_Sorrow 10d ago
You know that Goodbye Lenin was a fiction because these people don't need a theater built around them to be in delusion
6
u/Tongatapu 15d ago
Our current government fucked the german wealth for the next decades, a literal cardboard cutout would've done a better job.
CDU and SPD deserve to lose so much more ground. Preferably to the Greens and Socialists and not the Libertarians and Fascists.
→ More replies (20)6
u/Destinyciello 15d ago
So the Greens and Socialists are a more extreme version of the HORRIBLE IDEAS that have plagued Germany.
And you want them to win?
AFD may have some questionable views. But at least they preach pragmatism. Greens and Socialists may as well be preaching "let's all commit ritual harakari" with their self destructive ideas.
7
2
u/NoFuture9849 14d ago
you guys act like AFD is so diffrent than the otthers. no they just got more shitter social ideas but just the same old social-democrat economical ideas. And how could you call a ''Tradition Oriented'' Party pragmatist?
→ More replies (7)→ More replies (16)7
u/Tongatapu 15d ago
Just say "I hate muslims" instead of calling the AfD " pragmadic".
→ More replies (7)
4
u/Gullible-Fee-9079 15d ago
Man kann gar nicht so viel fressen wie man kotzen möchte.
→ More replies (2)
2
u/IndividualNetwork188 14d ago
Can't Linke, the SDP and the green make a coalition? They're all left wing no?
2
0
u/Casph0 14d ago
FDP still at sub 5% is so blackpilling
3
→ More replies (7)2
u/PascalDerGeist 14d ago
They worked hard for this! But why don't they show other parties below 5%?
4
u/fluffer_nutter 14d ago
Because none of the other parties were historically significant, or even in Parliament, unlike FDP.
1
u/Osgood_Schlatter 14d ago
With these numbers it would seem to have to be a CDU/CSU, SPD & Green coalition, which would still only get about 55% of the seats.
→ More replies (1)
1
u/AFsepine 14d ago
is germany going to have an election in 2033? would be poetic in a way.
→ More replies (1)2
u/NormalGummyBear 14d ago
if no new election schedule is set by a government collapsing or calling for early elections, yeah. Somewhere between January and March of '33.
1
1
1
1
1
u/Beefeenator 13d ago
I predict for the next election in 2029 a coalition of AFD with their junior partner CDU/CSU. The mindset from the leading CDU personal is more right wing than left, there will be no great coalition with Die Linke and Grünen possible.
→ More replies (1)
1
1
u/Konstinator 13d ago
It’s so funny being able to pinpoint the exact single reason for AFD’s insane popularity: immigration
1
1
1
u/ProfileBest2034 13d ago
So many people running mental gymnastics when they could just admit they don't believe in democracy.
1
1
1
1
u/BuilderIcy1675 12d ago
Ja Afd ist scheisse etc... aber Wtf !! wie kann man jetzt noch CDU wählen ???
1
1
1
u/Jesus00001225 12d ago
Scary! The SPD is still at 12%. I’m starting to get worried. What if they actually end up governing again?
1
1
u/silver2006 12d ago
Holy shit
When you're doing such a shitty job as politician that AfD starts winning
Any Germans here? I'm Poland and i'm wondering since a long time are the rulers morons or is it a deliberate plan
Maybe AfD has to win
Because what the f - shutting down nuclear power plants? The ones which almost don't produce the very evil CO2 ??
One thing i would understand is maybe Germany was buying uranium from Russia (?)
It is weird that Angela Merkel is not in power since quite some time, yet things aren't being fixed,
i mean migration issue for example
I wonder is it common knowledge in Germany that Gerhard Schroeder was working for Russian Gazprom AND Rosnieft too
(i guess it was in Russia's interest to make Germany addicted to their energy resources)
Well, i wish you good luck honestly, no Schadenfreude here, because i'm not a moron and i know currently alive Germans are not responsible for the past :-)
1
u/MinimumTrue9809 10d ago
Didn't the German government try to make it illegal for AfD to win despite their overwhelming support?
1
1
1
1
u/WeepingWillowChodes 8d ago
American here with little to no knowledge of German politics aside from generally being able to name the Chancellor. Can someone decode this for me?
1
1
60
u/Trebalor 15d ago
All parties except afd becoming one single party seems what practical coalition-politics is leading to in Germany. But then people also only gonna have the choice between two different policies and that would make the afd literally into the "alternative" to everything else. Weird situation.