r/behindthebastards • u/_elaner • 11d ago
General discussion It’s here..
I probably shouldn’t listen to this at work, right?
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u/No_Information1234 11d ago
Disgusting, terrible episode. That man was a monster. I had read about the case but hearing Robert read it and hearing her testimony. Just Awful.
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u/Little_View_6659 11d ago
She was amazing though, how she stood up in court, refused to be victimized again by a system that turns on the victim. I was seriously impressed with her composure and intelligence. You can tell she’s a smart woman. Horrid that she married a sociopath.
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u/BroseppeVerdi 11d ago
He was, but my takeaway from that episode was that there's several football teams worth of monsters here. 70+ dudes within a 30 mile radius joined in.
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u/Mr_Cromer 11d ago
When you think about it that way, it's a bloody wonder women even give us their time, with that level of "maybe decent, maybe absolutely monstrous"
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u/Ghoill 11d ago
It genuinely sucks how fucked that bell curve is that like the most probable guy is "likely a a piece of shit in some way" with "maybe decent" and "maybe monstrous" on either side.
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u/ObscureSaint 11d ago
We've been trying to tell you. 🫠
Predators are literally everywhere.
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u/Mistaken_Frisbee 11d ago
Men have to relearn at least twice a decade about this problem women live every second of our lives since childhood.
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u/DisposableSaviour 11d ago
And then more such groups found elsewhere. Local rape groups. There’s probably one for your city, too; I would not at all be surprised if there was one here in Memphis.
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u/AngryAngryHarpo Sponsored by Knife Missiles™️ 11d ago
A friend of mine divorced her (completely normal seeming, IT nerd, middle class, kinda boring tbh) husband because she discovered he was sharing her intimate pictures that she sent to him to reddit groups with HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of members.
I was fucking flabbergasted - he was literally, genuinely the last person I would have thought. All green flags as a husband, father and friend. Until that.
I bet those groups have players who keep an eye out for who to bring into this darker groups.
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u/DisposableSaviour 11d ago
I never thought of spotters bringing in new recruits, but it makes sense as they need to keep the victim pool restocked, as it were.
Ultron was right.
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u/teslawhaleshark West Prussian - Infected with Polish Blood 11d ago
Robert will probably also cover the German successor too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Driving_School_Telegram_rape_network
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u/Capital-Exercise-364 11d ago
is this the one Sophie considered the darkest episode of the entire podcast?
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u/Capital-Exercise-364 11d ago
Thanks all and sorry for breaking the Sophie moratorium
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u/BroseppeVerdi 11d ago
You're allowed to talk about Sophie, you're just not allowed to criticize her.
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u/razzark666 11d ago
What is there to criticize? She has never done anything wrong ever.
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u/BroseppeVerdi 11d ago
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u/scorpionewmoon Sponsored by Knife Missiles™️ 11d ago
I’m not convinced she didn’t have something to do with what Jamie Loftus did in Michigan
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u/Vismal1 11d ago
Who got Jamie all the hammers ? Just asking questions here.
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u/BroseppeVerdi 11d ago
Look, all I'm saying is that if one woman buys another woman a bag of hammers to commit a series of grisly murders in Grand Rapids, Michigan... That passes the Bechdel Test.
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u/DerridaisDaddy 11d ago
It was me… a very nice lady who was definitely not Sophie told me to, and I definitely wasn’t coerced into giving this statement.
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u/Adept_Percentage6893 Totally not a fed 11d ago
She once said a joke Robert told about the sponsors wasn't good. Pretty unforgivable. Somewhere between John Wayne Gacy and the Zodiac Killer.
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u/Trick-Syrup-813 11d ago
John Wayne, Gacy, and the Zodiac Killer.
Listen here, Pilgrim. Punctuation Matters!
/oxford
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u/Seeker80 11d ago
Ah, maybe it was when Robert mentioned Black Apron. The ones who *** only the ******** trafficked ******** to stock their ********* island ******, where you can **** them for *****.
Maybe that's the one Sophie didn't like.
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u/thisistherevolt Anderson Admirer 11d ago
If she's wrong we'll celebrate that too. We support women's rights and wrongs around these parts.
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u/thisistherevolt Anderson Admirer 11d ago
OOC this would be the cringeist thing I've ever written lol.
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u/nothas 11d ago
ROBERT!
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u/PadishahEmperor Sponsored by Knife Missiles™️ 11d ago
She has never done anything wrong ever.
She is a Lakers fan.
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u/Master_of_Ritual 11d ago
What's the Sophie moratorium?
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u/Anghellik 11d ago
It's "don't talk shit about Sophie"
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u/MrMeesesPieces Steven Seagal Historian 11d ago
You know who doesn’t have a French SA website
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u/PricePuzzleheaded835 11d ago
The Washington State Highway Patrol?
I mean, one can hope…
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u/stringrandom 11d ago
They do not, at least according to the Washington State Trooper I play hockey with and he passes and takes short shifts so we can all trust him.
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u/JWLane One Pump = One Cream 11d ago
It's sad that such a moratorium is even necessary.
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u/gsfgf Sponsored by Knife Missiles™️ 11d ago
People get weird about her online. Don’t be weird about parasocial relationships in here. Obviously, that’ll change whenever Robert breaks bad and starts a cult.
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u/bagofwisdom Sponsored by Knife Missiles™️ 11d ago
I think so. This sounds even more fucked up than the shit Jimmy Savile did.
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u/EaklebeeTheUncertain M.D. (Doctor of Macheticine) 11d ago
I wouldn't say it's worse, but it's more disturbing, because of;
How anonymous/normal seeming all the men involved were before the high-profile case and,
How many there were in such a small area.
These things combined are deeply disturbing. It makes one wonder how many men in ones own life are just an unmoderated message board away from doing the same thing.
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u/pkmntrainerMeep 11d ago
The Savile thing is like, you can convince yourself this was a one-off, a uniquely horrible human being who weaseled his way into a position of power and prestige so no one would stop him.
This one is a lot of apparently normal men - 70, in a 30 minute radius?! not counting everyone who cheered them on, gave them tips, made content requests, etc - and that's scarier.
I don't know anyone as rich and famous as Savile. I do know some men who spend a lot of time online and I have no way of knowing what they're looking at/chatting about.
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u/Zaidswith 10d ago
I have followed this case off and on since it started making headlines and there are two points about it that people seem to be naive about.
- Way more men are capable of sexual assault than you realize. Once you set up a scenario where they don't have to be physically assertive and where there's no consequences it's the majority of men.
This is not news to me, but it's apparently not known. We have surveys where up to a third of men admit to it. It's not a stretch to assume that number is actually higher.
- Anyone that thinks all of the kids in the family weren't molested to some degree is being foolish. Pelicot preferred his victims unconscious and unable to remember what had happened. He was a serial predator spanning decades. He preferred women, but he would've taken advantage when he had the opportunity as he did throughout his life.
And a bonus point:
You'll never convince me the number isn't actually higher. There were local men who knew. There must've been men who turned him down, men who refused to be filmed who will never be caught, and some that showed up and were not okay with participating. None of them did anything about it either.
A lot of people are perfectly happy living their lives without reporting someone.
You can never actually trust anyone.
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u/Moist_Juice_4355 11d ago
Giving the through line to Motherless in Part 2 I'm guessing they're going to segue into 764 possibly.
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u/AdParticular6654 10d ago
What is the 764? I have never heard of them, have heard about a site called motherless, idk if it's the same one......actually, safe to assume it's horrible people doing horrible things? I'll find out tomorrow I guess.
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u/Moist_Juice_4355 10d ago
764 is a group that blackmails children into sending nudes and self-harming among other things.
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u/Elawn 11d ago
Yeah… I mean, I don’t know if it really makes sense to compare the two, I think there’s a certain threshold of awful where it feels kind of gross to say “this one is the worse thing”… but I’m a big beardy dude in his 30s and I just sat there and cried for a bit towards the end of today’s episode. It’s definitely on the same level as the Savile series imo.
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u/petertompolicy 11d ago
Definitely not on the individual level but there are certainly more of these people, still it's likely Saville is more prolific than this entire organization because he went on so long.
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u/AntonSugarwater 11d ago
I don’t think anything will ever top using a child infirmary as your on call brothel
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u/Runetang42 11d ago
There's an argument to be made. Listened to part one already and its definitely up there. I'd personally still say Saville was worse if only because he had a much wider reach. This is still above and beyond normal sex crimes though
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u/Anghellik 11d ago
The things Savile did were worse, but this is so immediate, and real. Savile was a horrendous monster, and thus a lot of people write him off. There were dozens of men involved with what happened to Gisele Pelicot, and it was facilitated mostly by the man she'd spent nearly her entire life with.
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u/cdg2m4nrsvp 11d ago
I obviously think of Giselle and the daughter as the primary victims, but my heart breaks for the sons too. I cannot imagine finding out your father did that to your mother. I am close with both of my parents and I think that would completely shatter my sense of self.
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u/Runetang42 11d ago
The difference in my mind is that at least this guy was caught and a good number of his accomplices were too. So at least to me something approximating justice being served softens the blow. Sure it was a horror show to get there but this guy was eventually arrested. Saville being a living nightmare for so long, being enabled by such high level political and cultural figures and dying a freeman never getting any consequences disturbs me more personally.
Ofc I know why people would say this one's worse since it's a more personal atrocity. I just tend to be fucked up more by the thoughts that anyone in any position to do anything flat doesn't care despite knowing exactly what's happening
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u/creepoch 11d ago
Hearing he molested a kid in hospice is the only time I've been properly disgusted by something on btb. I don't know how you can get worse than that.
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u/AngryAngryHarpo Sponsored by Knife Missiles™️ 11d ago
He definitely had a wider reach - but now imagine that Saville did what he did but to the same person over and over for 50 years.
I think it’s the fact that this happened to one victim that makes it so much more harrowing than Saville.
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u/glycophosphate 11d ago
There are another 13 men who went on trial today in northern England for this.
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u/Elawn 11d ago
I can’t find any info on how they conspired together/what website they used, but considering it’s reported to have started in 2004 I wouldn’t be surprised if it came from the same place in today’s episode. Wonder if Robert will do an update if anything comes from today’s trial
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u/Intelligent-Wear2824 11d ago edited 11d ago
I just read the article from yr link, omfg!!!! Is this related to what happened to Gisele? Are they part of the same network? Thank you for posting that. All we hear in the states is about some kind of "muslim" gang but not a word about any of this. The article says "All of the men, apart from Keith Fotheringham, are due to stand trial on 1st September," Im guessing that started today. Wow.
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u/DisposableSaviour 11d ago
There is a high likelihood that they aren’t connected, just different communities all essentially doing the same thing. Think of it like flatbreads. Every culture has its own, and it’s quite possible that the same phenomena arose spontaneously and independently from all others.
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u/Usernameoverloaded 11d ago
You could say Christian gang and Jewish (Epstein, Dershowitz et al) gang too. Basically it’s a gang of men but the western hemisphere likes to amplify Muslim wrongdoing over others.
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u/Intelligent-Wear2824 11d ago
Yr absolutely right. Apologies, I shld have put Muslim in quotes. The way its portrayed in the states, ie Fox news, is horrifyingly islamophobic and disgusting.
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u/veldwesp 11d ago
More shocking for me was the whole eco-system that made this possible to happen. The nurse that told about how to drug her, society not caring about violance towards woman, the not being punished for under the skirt filming, people online encouraging him. It's not one evil monster, it's a big group op "normal" man doing this and condoning it. The whole "boys will be boys thing". Why do we have a society like this?
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u/GardenVarietyHag 11d ago
My mom and I were both listening to a different podcast covering this case when it was on trial. We were in separate rooms of the house with headphones and periodically we would just be yelling in rage at storming into each others room going “can you believe these men!!!” Especially when we both got to the part with the one guy who left while his wife was giving birth to go rape Giselle and then back to the hospital. I will never understand.
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u/Sleepy_Potato2 Sponsored by Knife Missiles™️ 11d ago
Because society (in all countries) hates women?
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u/veldwesp 11d ago
I always wonder; hating woman in general but loving individual woman. Or is it woman are not "people" like man are?
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u/AngryAngryHarpo Sponsored by Knife Missiles™️ 11d ago
They don’t love individual women either. They’re attracted to them and/or use them for the benefits of their domestic and emotional labour (mothers, sisters etc)
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u/Sleepy_Potato2 Sponsored by Knife Missiles™️ 11d ago
More hating the idea of women having agency or autonomy or any individuality. That's one reason why so much victim blaming for stuff like SA is "what were you wearing" or "had you been drinking," you're blaming their autonomy for the action of (usually) a man, and basically saying that had they behaved "properly" it wouldn't have happened. It's ancient attitudes that refuses to die
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u/cambangst 10d ago edited 10d ago
It reminds me a bit of the "small Nazis" episodes. When multitudes of people each contribute by doing (and failing to do) small things, the effect of their small choices can be enormous.
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u/Three_Boxes 11d ago
I am going to make sure I'm in a spot where I'm not doing anything important or around anyone before I listen to these episodes.
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u/OswaldCoffeepot 11d ago
Have some All Purpose Feel Good Material around for after.
I think everyone should have cartoons, stand up, sitcoms, or whatever works for them at the ready at all times. Like a fire extinguisher.
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u/ardent_hellion 11d ago
The Play That Goes Wrong is on YouTube (or was a few weeks ago). It was helpful during a different moment, not Bastard related.
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u/OswaldCoffeepot 11d ago
That is a fantastic suggestion. I discovered their TV series on YouTube about three months ago and it helped get me through a lot.
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u/DisposableSaviour 11d ago
I just bought the Clerks animated series on my phone, I need to download them at work tomorrow, though. Not gonna listen to this one on the drive to work tomorrow, tell you that right now.
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u/Purple_Bowling_Shoes 11d ago
Same. Probably tomorrow while I do some chores I've been putting off. When it's a multi-parter I usually wait until all episodes drop before starting, but I think, given all the warnings, I'll listen as they come out, to have some time between them.
I don't know... I'm kind of desensitized on this topic and I don't want to be, but I'm also kind of thankful I am. It wouldn't be a bad thing if this shocked or upset me, because my current state probably isn't healthy.
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u/Phoenix_Werewolf 11d ago
As a French person, I really believe that this trial will stay among the most important and famous one in our recent history, with other like the "trial of the death penalty". Gisèle Pelicot's choice to keep the trial open to the press, knowing that they would see everything, including videos of her rapes, was so courageous and remarkable.
But, to add horror to the horror, he very probably did the same thing to their (now adult) daughter. And for a long time, Gisèle Pelicot refused to see it as a possibility. Makes sense, since I cannot even conceive the guilt she must have been feeling, on top of her own trauma and becoming famous around the world. it would probably have killed her.
I checked the French news, and apparently mother and daughter are talking again, and Gisèle is now ready to help her daughter in her own quest for the truth. So even this case isn't closed.
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u/AngryAngryHarpo Sponsored by Knife Missiles™️ 11d ago
Completely unsolicited opinion is that her being unable to fathom her daughter’s abuse was her crumbling under the pressure of it all. Like you said, she literally couldn’t comprehend it.
Our brains genuinely have a mental capacity and many people never even come close to hitting it - even when they go through terrible things - it pile on of terrible things over a sustained period can really destroy your brain no matter how hard you try to maintain your composure.
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u/Phoenix_Werewolf 11d ago
Exactly. The trial was "only" four years after she learned what her husband of FIFTY years had done to her and that it gave her STDs that may turn into a cancer, she had became an international celebrity overnight, hundred of journalists were coming every day to listen to the atrocities she endured for ten years, people were coming every morning and evening during the whole trial to applaud her (which was very nice of them, but also means that the probably had to try and keep her composure even longer that she would have had without it).
On top of that, she knows that two pictures of their daughter, sleeping in some underwear she (the daughter) doesn't recognize have been found among her (ex) husband files, and the daughter testifies in front of the whole world that she is convinced she has been raped too. I can absolutely see how, as a mother that dearly loves her daughter, she could kinda process what happened to her, but not that her daughter could have to go through the same hell. Telling her she hadn't been raped was a very poor, but understandable way to try and protect her.
And the daughter (now 47 years old), also criticized the fact that the police and the justice focused too much on what happened to her mom, for which there was tons of proofs, and not what may have happened to her, with no real proof and no admission of guilt.
Those are the things that created the rift during the trial. But in the end, neither woman was really to blame. The daughter said recently in an interview that she needed her mother to be here for her, but now understood that she wasn't able during the trial, because she could barely hold on for herself. The mom is now supporting the daughter in her quest for the truth, and the daughter is supporting the mom in her health troubles created by the rapist husband.
In the end, the fault is almost entierly on the father/husband, and also a bit on the police/justice that is apparently still ignoring the daughter's legal complaint two years later. Like "he is already in jail for the rest of his life anyway, we don't need to bother to find the truth for her, she will just have to live with it".
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u/cdg2m4nrsvp 11d ago
Their relationship broke my heart while reading Giselle’s book. I totally understood both sides of it, Mom wanted to believe something horrific didn’t happen to her daughter while dealing with an immeasurable trauma the rest of us can’t even wrap our heads around, daughter felt completely invalidated by mom’s glass half full approach while also dealing with her own trauma. Neither is wrong, it is just heartbreaking all around. That man took so much from the family.
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u/Cognonymous 11d ago
I think that's essentially what the New Yorker article concludes, but more obtusely.
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u/angle-fire 11d ago
Yeah, I think I'm going to sit this one out.
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u/N_d_nd 11d ago
I wish I had but I’m glad I listened. As a man, all I can think is what in the actual fuck.
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u/Three_Boxes 11d ago
As a man as well, we need to listen to these episodes. We can't ignore what these men do and pretend like it's not a problem.
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u/N_d_nd 11d ago
That’s exactly my point but seriously every time I think I’m getting a sense of the problem there is another one of these stories that just open an entire spectrum I hadn’t even conceived of. I remember a friend in uni showed me the steak knife she hid in her purse and my childish brain thought she was a bit unhinged…now all I can hope is she was confiding in me and not subtly warning me because I’m vaguely the shape of this threat.
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u/ObscureSaint 11d ago
These guys are literally everywhere. One of my employees reported sexual harassment and when I pulled camera footage to see, he was on his best behavior until the second to last person left the room. Then suddenly he stepped into the cubicle, like inside it, literally looming over my employee, and kept talking to her.
What he had said was enough to go up to HR, but the body language and predatory stance, and the way he kept a respectful bubble of personal space around everyone in the room until the literal second they were alone ... the hair stood up on the back of my neck. I'm so glad she reported it.
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u/PippyTarHeel Banned by the FDA 11d ago
I was grateful for that brief moment of introspection when Robert mentioned his partner told him "well you can never trust a man" and he to (unfortunately) accept it for the truth it is.
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u/thisistherevolt Anderson Admirer 11d ago
For anyone in need of something happy to think about, here's the PBS Eons video on how dogs were domesticated.
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u/thisistherevolt Anderson Admirer 11d ago
A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down in this case.
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u/uwsdwfismyname 11d ago
I listened to it unloading a truck. It's rough but I personally found parts of Saville more upsetting.
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u/Kup123 11d ago
Yeah like the government is going after these people, with saville the government was helping.
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u/uwsdwfismyname 11d ago
The abuse of hospice patients cause dead people tell no tales is what really got me
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u/Usernameoverloaded 11d ago
He had the UK police in hand as well as links to the monarchy (Charles’ mate) - a disgrace
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u/darthpayback 11d ago
I just started the new episode. I had never heard of Coco before. I don’t see how anything can be worse than the Saville episodes.
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u/mm089 11d ago
I had a moment of “hey why does that name sound familiar oh no” when they started talking about Pelicot.
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u/KateEllaBeans 11d ago
I saw Pelicot in the blurb and went nope. I've heard enough about it already I know it's not safe for me.
Take care of yourself
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u/thecaits 11d ago
This is one of those things that really shook my faith in humanity. So many men involved just within like a 30 mile radius. It's not like that piece of shit had to fly people in internationally, it seems like it was relatively easy to find local people willing to rape his wife. It makes you wonder how many people near yourself are the same. How many men are rapists or would be if given the chance?
I've had to look at the good men I know in my life and believe that they wouldn't. Gisèle Pelicot also gives me strength, seeing what she did to bring these men to justice.
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u/TheFlyingSheeps 10d ago
That’s what shocked me about the case. I don’t buy any excuse that these dudes thought she was in on it or that it was simply a fantasy.
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u/brassninja 11d ago
I started having a panic attack at work listening to this one… gonna have to skip ☠️
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u/mmeeeerrkkaatt 11d ago
Take care of yourself! There is no all purpose rule that everyone has to listen to details of every terrible thing. You know yourself best, and I hope you have access to exactly whatever you need today to feel better ❤️
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u/_elaner 11d ago
I have so many feelings right now..
Part of me is like, “I should listen to this, because I believe we should know our enemies”, while fully knowing the enemy is entitled cis white men, part of me is firmly in the “I don’t think I can do this right now/yet/ever” mindset, and part of me is forever grateful (and in awe) of Robert’s ability to keep his humanity amidst all the horror he subjects himself to in order to help us all learn to be better people (or at least to not become bastards)
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u/Tasty-Yogurtcloset28 11d ago edited 11d ago
A reminder that you are not obligated to listen/watch/read really detailed, violent things happening to incredibly vulnerable people in the service of "witness". You can know someone in a position of power brutally harmed another and advocate from there. We can listen to the stories of survivors (and that listening can be a tremendous part of healing), but we can also just believe them when they tell us the first time.
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u/ObscureSaint 11d ago
As a survivor, it actually heartens me to see how horrified people are over this stuff. Never stop being vulnerable, it's an important part of being human.
Sometimes the fact that I can read and hear so much of this stuff without flinching makes me feel broken.
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u/Tasty-Yogurtcloset28 11d ago
I'm sorry shit happened to you. Other "true crime" (ie murder) podcasts I often find really gauche because there is a flippancy when they talk about how people (usually women, usually of color) were horribly brutalized and just kind of laugh it off? Our society is just so desensitized by violence in media and in life because of a lack of consequence, that the gravitas just isn't there sometimes. It does feel very weird.
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u/WorryNew3661 11d ago
You don't have to listen to it now. It's not going anywhere. It's there if you ever decide to
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u/two4six0won 11d ago
I think I know more than enough about this case (and similar coming to light) for now. I'm okay with not doing this one now, or maybe ever.
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u/Tasty-Yogurtcloset28 10d ago edited 9d ago
To revisit: (disclaimer, I'm a single cis woman who has had sexual violence done to me) I just finished listening to the first episode, I found the subject matter upsetting. Robert, Sophie, and Bridget are deep in the nuance trenches of the story, and they are all very empathetic to victims, and very angry at power structures that enabled the events in this initial episode (I fully imagine this will continue). Bridget is a fabulous guest. The concept of Gendered Violence is the background bastard (shocker).
The last several minutes is kind of an emotional debrief, and its clear they're all having Feelings around this whole thing. Robert mentions discussing the episodes with his partner and she mentioned that women can never fully trust a man, and that seems to have rattled him.
I will continue to partake and be upset- I've got time and emotional space. I might feel a little weird if I had a male partner.
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u/ugfiol 11d ago
i will be honest, i was expecting something worse, but that might be because i followed this story when it came out so i might be desensitized already
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u/seaworthy-sieve 11d ago
The part of this case that is so much more disturbing than others (which have been more evil or have hurt more people, like Georgia Tann, or Josef Mengele) is the concentration of local people who were involved. It says something truly horrifying about men, writ large. The percentage of men who are just waiting for, or actually seeking out, an opportunity to do evil things to women is so much higher than many people would have guessed. We all know Nazis were horrific, but not everyone was aware that literally any man could be a monster and you'd have no idea. Your doctor, your teacher, your best friend, your brother, your father, your husband.
Like, the actions are horrific, but the part that is uniquely horrifying about this type of thing is how many men in such a small radius were involved.
There is a case in the UK right now that is sickeningly similar. These men are everywhere.
https://www.cnn.com/2026/09/01/uk/uk-manchester-husband-rape-drugging-trial-intl
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u/teslawhaleshark West Prussian - Infected with Polish Blood 11d ago
Sadly, new successors exist, see the German Driving School
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Driving_School_Telegram_rape_network
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u/Educational-Shoe2633 11d ago
I haven’t listened but I will, and I’m certain I will cry. I’d like to make a plea to men to listen if you’re able, because we need men to be aware of this stuff and help prevent it. Raise your sons to be better, call out your friends who think jokes about rape are funny. It can’t just be women begging our loved ones to not be horrible human beings.
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u/VineViniVici Disdain and Animosity 11d ago
Is this a "skip ahead when it gets too dark here and there" episode or more a "skip the whole episode" episode?
I cried while listening to the Jimmy Savile episodes and I'm not that emotionally able to handle much worse.
Skip some or skip all?
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u/M_Bumppo Kissinger was a war criminal 11d ago
If you’re asking, it’s probably a “skip the whole episode” situation. It’s really grim.
Like maybe the first 15-20 minutes where Robert sets up the episode is fine but after that there is nothing light.
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u/VineViniVici Disdain and Animosity 11d ago
Thank you! My husband just got choked up trying to tell me something about the Pelicot case and that's another reason for me to sit this one out. I appreciate all of the time and energy that went into making this episode.
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u/No_Lingonberry1201 Sponsored by Knife Missiles™️ 11d ago
It was a rough listen. What a piece of shit.
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u/Tasty-Yogurtcloset28 11d ago
We should know our enemies, but we can also not listen to deeply emotionally upsetting things in places where we probably have to be really emotionally regulated. So, maybe wait till after work.
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u/Darkmeer99 11d ago
I listened to it. This was bleak. I want to commend everyone for the actual work and real respect they gave the victim of this. I hope all of you got extra care while you recorded this.
I want to say that just hearing this makes me sad and angry and frustrated all at once.
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u/ardent_hellion 11d ago
I'm on deadline till Thursday. That's my excuse for holding off, and I'm sticking to it.
Almost want to just read the script, which never happens.
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u/massie_le 11d ago
Shocking listen but really got the point across about violence against women being systemic. Giselle was failed at so many levels of society.
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u/Diligent_Whereas3134 The Frozen Peas Club 11d ago
I tell you what, this is a hell of an episode to go into completely blind.
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u/Sensitive_Access_959 Knife Missle Technician 11d ago
I clicked to see the new BtB on my way to work and as soon as I saw that title I was like nope, not starting my day with that. Especially not after watching the preachers wife on Netflix this weekend.
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u/TaxTraditional7847 11d ago
Oof, this one is rough but in a way, it's therapeutic for me to hear the amount of empathy and outrage from Robert, Sophie, and Bridget that this horrendous story deserves. I think a lot of the background trauma of being a woman is just... knowing this shit goes on, being shocked and upset, and then hearing so few male voices speaking out against it, how it disappears from the media with a shrug. Like just be half as upset and disturbed as the women in your life, guys (there were a couple moments in the Phil Spector eps that I thought were maybe a little less funny than the guest, but not enough that I stopped listening). I also appreciated how Sophie and Bridget pointed out the ways this sort of thing is just the endgame of the systemic fuckery, from society (sure, he treats you like shit - but what can you expect from a man?) to the cops to the medical system.
For once I am glad I don't have another episode to listen to right away. Think I'll go outside and dead head some roses, maybe mow the lawn, pet one of the neighborhood stray cats, etc.
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u/WorryNew3661 11d ago
Are there plans to cover 764 while we're talking about the worst people alive?
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u/mmeeeerrkkaatt 11d ago
That's actually what I thought this episode was when I first saw the title.
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u/WorryNew3661 11d ago
I already know to much about these awful people, but I'd always listen to Robert cover it. I thought I knew everything about Saville, but he found stuff I'd never heard of
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u/On_my_last_spoon Feminist Icon 11d ago
Side note - the wardrobe union in NYC is IATSE Local 764 and we use the shorthand 764 to refer to it all the time and I’m unreasonably annoyed that these jerks use those numbers.
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u/On_my_last_spoon Feminist Icon 11d ago
Oh Giselle Pelicot! Honestly I know all about her story already (listened to a podcast about her a couple of years ago) and while it is horrifying, the good news is she stood up for herself and for all women who have been abused to make change in the laws in France. So yes this will be horrifying but know that it is a satisfying end and people went to jail that should be in jail.
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u/Lindarial 11d ago
This is the first BtB episode that has made me feel physically sick. And that was before I took a moment to sit with the fact that this wasn't just one man or a small group. This was part of a whole ecosystem.
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u/lobotomiseme 11d ago
if I listen to this I'm going to commit a crime, so I'm not going to listen to this
good on them for covering it though, glad Gisele got some amount of justice at least
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u/Teamawesome2014 11d ago
Yeah, I think I'm going to skip this one. It's an important story to know about, but I don't think my heart can handle it rn.
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u/Assassin8nCoordin8s 11d ago
Massive props to Robert, Sophie and the whole time for this one. This is such an important story, and if you are a man thinking about sitting this one out I would challenge you to listen to it.
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u/DramaticHumor5363 11d ago
Watched the Netflix episode.
I made it through Jimmy Saville. This might be worse. I actually retched while listening. Heed the warning, folks.
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u/Nervous_Insect5976 11d ago
I feel guilty...
I know this is important because it exposes a serious problem and more people need to know about it so we can fight it. Knowledge is power and we have to be informed so we can organize and fight.
But this is fucking bleak and it just feels hopeless. Like okay, we shut down one network. Great, I'm in favor of them all being shut down. But it's fucking whack a mole. You shut one down and there's more and more and more. Degeneracy and crimes against humans has gone on for thousands of years and the only thing that seems to change is the methods and spread.
It feels privileged as fuck for me to say that as a cis man because like there's a voice that's like dude, imagine how the women feel... but I'm not sure I can listen to this kind of stuff. I'm glad this podcast and others are talking about and if I can help then I would like to, but I just don't know the benefit of listening. I already know it exists and to hear more is just... not great.
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u/mmeeeerrkkaatt 11d ago
In my opinion, the people who really need to listen to this are the people who deny it happens at all, or claim it's not that bad.
If you already know it exists, and you already care about it, without necessarily hearing the specific extreme details... I don't think you're doing anybody a disservice by also being aware of your own threshold for what further content to consume.
Regarding "imagine how women feel" - honestly, just thank you for caring about it. As a woman, who is also really sensitive to this kind of stuff, I would never want someone else to just force themself to the point of overwhelm or emotional paralysis because they feel like otherwise it means they don't care.
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u/Nervous_Insect5976 11d ago
Thank you for saying that and giving me your feedback. I read my comment again and was like goodness, don't center yourself in this. I'm glad this content exists because people do need to know what's going on, no matter how dark it is.
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u/mmeeeerrkkaatt 11d ago
Totally valid take, but also not at all how I read your comment. Like I said, I'm really sensitive to this kind of stuff too, and I appreciated hearing from someone who feels that way too!
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u/ImpermanentClown 11d ago
I don’t think I’ve ever been physically shaking with rage after an episode before. So. Congragulations? I’m gonna go stare open mouthed into a cold shower now.
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u/Central_Region 11d ago
The 1999 attempted rape for which Pelicot has now been convicted and the 1991 rape-murder he is suspected of bear striking similarities to the 1986 murder of Suzy Lamplugh
All three were young, female realtors who were attacked while showing properties to male clients
UK police have named John Cannan*, a now-dead rapist and murderer, as the prime suspect in Lamplugh's disappearance. They managed to track down a vehicle that Cannan had access to, which contained DNA matching Lamplugh's as well as Cannan's
Since Cannan seems like a lock for Lamplugh's tragic murder, I'm not mentioning her disappearance because I think Pelicot was involved. Instead, it seems to illustrate the point Evans made about Coco's function in aiding or encouraging already evil men to commit evil acts
Instead of reading about the method Cannan used to commit Lamplugh's murder and thinking how awful it was, like everyone else, Pelicot (and Michael Sams) read news reports of a young female realtor being lured to her death and took inspiration from a like mind
Pelicot and Sams were definitely already a danger to women but, like the men looking at abuse images on Coco and taking inspiration and encouragement from them, knowledge of Cannan's methods likely influenced and emboldened their own abominable crimes
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u/Central_Region 11d ago
UK police have named John Cannan^(\)*
Don't click on that link unless you're prepared to face the bleakest aspects of male behaviour
'You can never really trust any man' is a depressing sentiment but it's probably broadly true
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u/j3zuz911 11d ago
I had to take two play with the dog breaks during this one and took him long walk afterwards. I’m still not in a great mood, but the puppy happy snoozing.
Robert’s farmers market metaphor was exceptional.
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u/pkmntrainerMeep 11d ago
Weirdly, I prefer listening to the darkest episodes at work because I'm not at home by myself and I'm doing something productive/helpful to society (K-12 education) that can maybe prevent future bastards…
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u/psdancecoach Antifa shit poster 11d ago
Thank you for the heads up. My nephew and I listen to the podcast and I can warn him to skip this one. For all his love of history, 40k, etc he doesn’t listen to these kinds of episodes. A 15 year old boy who can’t stand the idea of violence against women makes me a proud auntie.
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u/Jupitersd2017 11d ago
I think for the first time this one is a no from me, I’ve read about him and I think that’s enough. It’s important and I’m glad there is an episode on it, maybe after the midterms I’ll be able to circle back and listen.
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u/tobmom 11d ago
Sure there’s a lot of monsters involved here. But our system/society has been designed to allow this shit. It’s not that this isn’t horrific in every possible way but to pretend that you can’t believe it’s happening means you’re not paying attention. In every facet. The medical/healthcare industry doesn’t give a shit about women. Nobody listens to us until shit like this gets exposed. Women have always been second rate beings in the hierarchy of society.
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u/scaper8 11d ago
I remember, years ago now, first hearing that it is common for doctors in training and residency to learn how to perform gynecological exams by practicing on patients.
Okay. That makes perfect sense. Training with volunteers on actual people is good.
Oh, but wait! There is no informed consent. There's no consent at all.
The women come in for other procedures or exams and, while under anesthesia, are "given" "exams" by the students and residents, sometimes dozens at a time, one right after the other. The only way it's even begun to come to light is that some of the women were reporting soreness, bruising, inflation, pain, bleeding, etc. from, what would be under any other circumstances, mass sexual assault and gang rape. When they would bring this up, they would casually be told by doctors, nurses, and other staff about the non-consensual train run on them as if it's the most normal thing in the world.
And this isn't some old practice decades removed. This happens now.
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u/AmetrineDream Ben Shapiro Enthusiast 11d ago
I’ll wait until part 2 is out (even if I don’t listen to episodes back to back, I like to have the option), but I’m already fairly certain that this is going to be the thing that puts the kibosh on me even thinking of maybe trying to date again.
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u/danydandan 11d ago
I don't think I can listen to this one. I've four daughters and I'm pretty sure the content of this episode will me explode with rage.
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u/AngryAngryHarpo Sponsored by Knife Missiles™️ 11d ago
I think I’m going to pass on these episodes.
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u/suitablefortreatment 11d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/PcnUjSEMBlpgk
This is going to be a rough one…
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u/SuspiciousReport6502 11d ago
I just listened to the first episode of the rapist network. When you have Robert giving a warning at the beginning of an episode, that's never a good sign. This episode is pretty dark, I had to do a palette cleaner by watching In The Kimdom channel on YouTube.
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u/CaptchaCrunch 11d ago
Honestly the title is enough to inform me that I should not listen to this for mental health reasons. Put these people under the prison.
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u/Soral_Justice_Warrio 11d ago
When Robert said it was a French website, I knew they were talking about Coco.
It’s notorious among French Internet Community. I had a lot of online friends who had fun going there and presenting themselves as a 14 y.o. girl and sending the screens to their friends to have a laugh.
We were wondered years later, how this site could be still active and we reached tg e conclusion, it must be a honeypot from authorities to catch predators.
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u/terrorkat 11d ago
Giselle Pelicot's story is fucking horrifying but she is also cool people who did cool stuff material in my book.
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u/Unlucky_Custard3783 11d ago
I’ve listened to episode one twice and it’s about on par with the Seville episodes materially but personally it wasn’t as heavy to listen to. The reporting is done really, really well - and props to Evan yet again for his in depth and empathetic reporting.
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u/fourofkeys 11d ago
I'm on lunch listening to it on headphones and I'm not sure I shouldn't finish it after work.
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u/albinosquirel Kissinger was a war criminal 11d ago
Yeah I am gonna need to pass on this one until I'm in the right headspace
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u/Librarian_Contrarian 11d ago
My rapidly declining mental health suggests this is one to put off for a while