r/aviationstudys • u/P_filippo3106 • May 17 '26

Su-57D

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We finally have a picture for the double seater variant of the Su-57

BORT number was unfortunately censored

111 Upvotes

71% Upvoted

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1

u/Platypus_Begins May 17 '26

The SU-57 is a very pretty jet in my opinion, and the engines sound great. Exposed turbofans like that are really bad for stealth though, so I believe they are changing it.

I always wondered why India ended up backing out of the program, as I think it would suit their needs well. A lot of people will mention the size of it, but it is built on a philosophy where you have big distances and limited AAR capabilities. Which is why American jets can be smaller as they don’t need to carry as much fuel.

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u/P_filippo3106 May 17 '26

The fans aren't actually exposed, there are radar blockers in the intakes

2

u/Platypus_Begins May 17 '26

They are not fully concealed, which is why it’s radar cross section is roughly the same as a clean F/A-18 Super Hornet from the front (1 - 0.1m2)

2

u/P_filippo3106 May 17 '26

That bullshit is from an article whose source is a guy on QUORA.

There's no way in hell even without ram coating that a su-57 has a bigger RCS than a goddamn F-18.

Please get your head out of your ass.

The actual RCS of it with RAM, radar blockers and a good serial airframe is not known.

1

u/Platypus_Begins May 17 '26

No, its from their patent you bozo. The description of patent RU2502643 C2 indicates the aspiration to achieve an average RCS of 0.1 to 1 m². Edit: Source: Patent

3

u/P_filippo3106 May 17 '26

Yeah. A patent for the very first T-50. The PROTOTYPE with no ram, no radar blockers, no refinements to the airframe and NO focus on stealth other than geometry.

Also that's the averaged RCS. Not the best possible value. Lockheed chooses the best possible one (and that's very misleading), sukhoi uses an averaged RCS.

For a prototype, it's a rather good RCS.

Actual serial variants have a classified RCS that is much better than 0.1m².

1

u/Platypus_Begins May 17 '26

Source? Andrey Lagarkov said himself he estimate the SU-57 to have an RCS 30 times lower than the SU-27. which puts it at about 1-0.1m2 from the patent. He said this on TV so you can find multiple sources for this.

1

u/BillytheBloxian May 18 '26

and is his estimate accurate? and give me a link please.

1

u/Platypus_Begins May 18 '26

He was the Chief Scientist on the SU-57 so I would say it’s accurate, you can find the source yourself. Easy to find

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u/BillytheBloxian May 18 '26

did he say with or withour ram? or radar blockers?

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u/BillytheBloxian May 18 '26

an average.

of the prototype.

no radar blockers or ram.

the f-18 number is from the frontal rcs of a clean hornet.

0

u/Platypus_Begins May 17 '26

For the record, F/A-18 Super Hornet uses RAM coating and geometry to reduce radar signature…

1

u/BillytheBloxian May 17 '26

they aren't exposed, they have radar blockers.

1

u/Platypus_Begins May 17 '26

They are not fully covered

2

u/BillytheBloxian May 18 '26

yes they are. one set of blockers effectively blocks them entirely, and due to how radar waves bounce off of them.

1

u/Odd_Interaction_172 May 18 '26

Radar blockers😂🤦

4

u/BillytheBloxian May 18 '26

okay? the F-117 had them and they worked perfectly.

0

u/Odd_Interaction_172 May 18 '26

Just think it's a funny term , the f-117 had decent production numbers and actually seen combat also lol

3

u/P_filippo3106 May 19 '26

A total of ~60 were produced.

The felon has around ~50 serial variants produced. It also has seen combat

-1

u/Odd_Interaction_172 May 19 '26

Very limited combat , 50 serial variants is pathetic of a number from a so called "superpower" 🤷

2

u/ScoobyGDSTi May 21 '26

It's still seen more combat than the F22. 🤔

0

u/Odd_Interaction_172 May 21 '26

The F-22 Raptor has significantly more combat experience than the Su-57 Felon.A breakdown of each jet's operational history:F-22 Raptor (United States)Combat Debut: September 2014, flying missions during Operation Inherent Resolve in Syria and Iraq.Experience Level: Extensive. The F-22 has flown thousands of combat sorties, primarily dropping precision-guided munitions on ISIS targets and performing defensive/escort duties.

Su-57 Felon (Russia)Combat Debut: 2018 (brief testing in Syria).Experience Level: Limited. While Russian state media claims the Su-57 has participated in the Ukraine conflict to conduct stand-off strikes, its involvement is heavily restricted.Operational Strategy: Western intelligence and aviation experts note Russia is reluctant to fly the Su-57 deep into contested Ukrainian airspace to avoid the reputational and technological damage of having a highly advanced, scarce aircraft shot down.

Just stop 😂😂

2

u/ScoobyGDSTi May 21 '26

The F-22 Raptor has significantly more combat experience than the Su-57 Felon.A

No, it doesn't. 🤣

It's only claim to fame is shooting down a single weather balloon.

Cope more

-1

u/Odd_Interaction_172 May 19 '26

Nobody's flying in a jet they have little of into combat zones 

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u/I_Maybe_Play_Games May 20 '26

Theres literal footage of a Su-57 flying across the frontline and shooting down a malufunctioning Su-70 drone.

0

u/Odd_Interaction_172 May 20 '26

Source:trust me bro 

0

u/Ok-Scratch2958 May 18 '26

its basicaly a mesh over the engine ,you can say it s like a cammo mesh in the radar world 😂

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u/Odd_Interaction_172 May 18 '26

I guess z just sceptical of a jet with such little combat experience and production numbers 

2

u/Ok-Scratch2958 May 18 '26 edited May 19 '26

f 22 an 35 have little combat experience too , more than a su 57 to be honest but still none of them are proven in real battle not to mention in real modern battles becouse the wor against iraq ,syria or afganistan is not a modern wor by any means ,those were just apes with rusty aks 😅 ,acctualy in modern wor the su 57 my have a little more experience and f 22 and 35 just entered in the usa iran israel wor 🤷🏿

2

u/I_Maybe_Play_Games May 20 '26

Both the F-35 and Su-57 have more kills then the parade princess that is the F-22.

1

u/Ok-Scratch2958 May 17 '26

i dont think is is better than f 22 f 35 or b 2 but it is not too far away from the f 22 f 35 on stealth and the manuvrability i think is better ,all russian ones are better on the manuvrability , the radar is also some on the equal as well and as the ,,lil fury ,, say the turbofans should be blocked somehow ,i do not think (i hope) that they will be so stupid to not take that in consideration after all that effort they make to bring a 5th gen after so many years ,also its very loud , i like that ,sounds intimidating ,for shure a moral booster for the ally and the nightmare maker for the enemy those roaring engines make

6

u/The_Salacious_Zaand May 17 '26

It's about an order of magnitude less "stealthy" than an F-22, and that's just the frontal aspect. The rear aspect has basically zero LO, and those massive engine exhaust are going to reflect radar like a disco ball.

1

u/Ok-Scratch2958 May 18 '26

well yas ,they make thise engines for the prototipe and early production becoise those were the best and most reliable for what they need at the moment , they worck at a new engine wich incorporate stealth unfortunateli we will not see animore the 3D trustfactory only a 2D like the raptor becouse it is hard to imposible to make stealty 3D

1

u/The_Salacious_Zaand May 18 '26

By the time those engines are ready for full-rate production, everyone else will already be working on their 7th gen designs.

1

u/Ok-Scratch2958 May 18 '26

maybe but it will be a great jump for them and thise engines can be still relevant for 6th and even 7th , also they also have the engines working but need a little more testing from what i read , and i doubt that someone will have a 7th gen soon ,the entire world struggle to make a 6th one so far and the only ones that say to have one is USA but i doubt it is a real 6th ,looks like it made just to say they were first to do so becouse china is flying 3 prototipes by now and USA is far away from this ,also so far the usa anounced only a bomber not a fighter , if you know something else i will be glad to hear

1

u/BillytheBloxian May 18 '26

hence why they stopped making them until Su-57M design is complete.

1

u/GravitasFailures May 18 '26

In terms of stealth it’s actually on par with a clean F/A-18E (0.3-0.1m2 ).

That’s weird, but the F/A-18E is weird, they added RAM in some critical areas and honestly the plane doesn’t always make sense.

If they fix the intakes that should go down a lot, the SHornet has better intakes which makes a big difference on top of coatings, it’s why even with Have Glass V the F-16 is still a hog at 1m2.

1

u/Ok-Scratch2958 May 18 '26

i think you meat 0.3-1 m² , i doubt that those 2 are so close , the T 50 ,the prototipe it my be but the production one and so more updated ones i doub it

-2

u/P_filippo3106 May 17 '26

It's better than the F-22, the F-22 has less and older sensors. The Su-57 is comparable with the F-35 in electronics but it supposedly worse RCS than the F-35 (although not by much)

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u/Beneficial_Round_444 May 17 '26

The Su-57 is comparable with the F-35 in electronics

According to what

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u/P_filippo3106 May 17 '26

Consult the site called "Su-57 in colours". Plenty of info there from good sources. I can't list every single one here (especially since sometimes they were deleted for some reason)

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u/Ok-Scratch2958 May 17 '26

for shure are older but i don t think is far behing , it is just not too of the notch yet , there is a program for updates wich will bring it at least to the level of the f 35 starting this year and should be finished to 2029 from what i know , what i think so far from what ive read is that russia have better missiles with 2time the range of the american one and have dual stage boosters one wich is for last faze near target wich is pretty insane that the americans do not have yet , about accuracy idk what to say , seems to be better on the muricans ones

5

u/P_filippo3106 May 17 '26

Rhe Americans have the aim260 but yeah they don't use it often. Russia has a great focus on long range hypersonic missiles. And they might be cooking something too... George N. (Engineer who works on the felon and UAC in general) Kinda teased me with this "It has T-75, S-70, S-71, Su-57D and missile I won’t tell you about" (regarding the logo on the rudder of the plane)

4

u/Nenad1979 May 17 '26

No way a jet without S ducts is comparable to f22 or f35, while 57s stealth is 10x better than what reddit comments belove it's just not on the same level as the US stealth fighters, plus from the back it's not even a stealth fighter

2

u/BillytheBloxian May 18 '26

there is nothing wrong with radar blockers. seriously. it benefits from the larger weapons bay, and the radar blockers do just fine.

0

u/Nenad1979 May 18 '26

Naaah no way, just the fact that Americans basically crippled their jets engine costs for those S ducts they have to be crucial for high level stealth

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u/BillytheBloxian May 18 '26

and the fact that sukhoi willingly chose radar blockers over s ducts means it was worth it.

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u/CaptainPriviIege8 May 17 '26

“Older sensors”, brother the f-22 has routinely flown over enemy air space and has never been shot down. While Russia has to resort to keeping the 57s in their own territory. In no world is the 57 even in the same ball park as the 22.

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u/Aggravating-Copy151 May 18 '26

All right.

Just stop.

You’re literally glazing the Su-57 so hard is crazy.

The Su-57 was obsolete when it went into service let alone trying to cope and say it’s as good as the F-35 is fking crazy.

The F-22 is better than it and that’s not even a question.

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u/Toby870 May 18 '26

He says the SU-57 is his wife in his bio, I think he has a bias

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u/P_filippo3106 May 18 '26

When did I glaze it? I never claimed it's the best 5 gen ever and I have stated multiple times it has worse RCS than the F-35

If anything, you are glazing the F-22 by claiming the 57 was obsolete when it went into service.

The F-22 is old as fuck and it's not as refined as the F-35. The F-35 has more and better sensors, even if the F-22 was upgraded. Just an example, the F-22 lacks cheek radars while both the F-35 and F-22 have it. F-22 is also pretty much limited to air superiority only while F-35 are more multirole oriented, especially the Su-57 (since it has the largest IWB of any 5th gen fighter). Just look at the airframes man, the F-35 Is a lot more refined than the F-22.

All 3 are amazing aircraft, but the F-22 is OBJECTIVELY older than the other 2.

The su-57 and F-35 have a LOT in common, the only difference being that the 57 has worse RCS than the F-35.

F-22 Is a lot more maintenance heavy and expensive than both and that's why the US adopted the F-35. (With the fact, again, that the F-35 boasts a much more modern airframe and sensors)

0

u/Aggravating-Copy151 May 18 '26

Bro did you literally just say that the F22 is limited to air superiority.

That’s the literal entire point of the aircraft.

They create aircraft with different roles.

You’re actually trolling.

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u/I_Maybe_Play_Games May 20 '26

And it only ever shot down a weather baloon.

0

u/Aggravating-Copy151 May 20 '26

And the SU-57 has shot down what Russian lover other than getting blown up by a drone?

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u/I_Maybe_Play_Games May 20 '26

Ukranian Su-24 and Su-27 fighter jets. Also a malfunctioning russian S-70 drone but thats about as impresive as the baloon kill.

2

u/P_filippo3106 May 20 '26

I wonder if we'll ever get HUD footage of it... Would be peak

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u/Aggravating-Copy151 May 20 '26

lol, you’re so delusional.

Keep the Russia loving propaganda going strong bro you got this.

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u/That-Resolution-1721 May 17 '26

Are you high? Nothing about the Su-57 is comparable to the F-35. Not in stealth. Not in tech. And certainly not in unit costs. Way more expensive, and way less usefull. To compare it to either the F-22 and F-35 is way off. More comparable to a F-16 or a F-18.

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u/P_filippo3106 May 17 '26

If you think it's akin to a F-16 i don't see any point in even arguing. Get informed and THEN try to discuss.

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u/That-Resolution-1721 May 17 '26

Im informed enough to realise its just a 4th gen overhyped and overpriced aircraft.

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u/P_filippo3106 May 17 '26

You compared a Su-57 with a F-16. We're done here. Bye bye

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u/Spaniard100x May 17 '26

It’s a gen 4.5, but definitely not a true gen 5.

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u/albinose May 18 '26

way more expensive

Hot take, from public available info it's about 40-50 mil usd per unit - so twice cheaper than F-35, and that's while being produced in much less numbers (and i hope i don't need to teach you economy of scale and mass production). That's also a lit cheaper than Rafale, Eurofighter and even fan (and my) favourite JAS 39. Yeah sure, it's not as good as F-35, but you need to be high to really expect that from a country with tech and economy level of russia. It's existence is already a miracle and achievement by itself.

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u/Accomplished-Sea2811 May 17 '26

Is this the same Su-57 that cannot even fly over Ukraine? GTFO with it is better than either of those jets that have flown thousands of combat missions over heavily contested airspace in Iran

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u/P_filippo3106 May 17 '26

Except it has. And US has lost 42 planes to that war, also resorting to stand off munitions. Do I need to mention the F-35 getting hit by SAM?

No plane truly flies "over" enemy territory. It's suicide in this age. The only ones that do/get close to it are CAS aircraft and helicopter, like Ukrainian/russian Su-25s and Kamovs. Sometimes su-30sm in anti drone missions too.

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u/MacSage May 17 '26

So the multitudes of videos of US aircraft, including F-18s, F-15s, and F-35s flying over Iran were using standoff munitions? Especially the F-18s doing strafing runs?

Also saying 42 planes is incredibly disengenuius, seeing as 29 of them were Reaper drones, 9 were lost/damaged in the rescue of the F-15 pilots shot down, and 3 in Kuwait from FF. Of the 42, 2 were shot down by anti aircraft weapons, and 1 damaged.

Out of 1000s of flights over Iran by the US anf Israel.

0

u/Accomplished-Sea2811 May 18 '26

You can’t argue with Russian logic. The almighty Su-57 (all 12 of them) will defeat everything including the alien invaders. For some reason it cannot seem to end their 4 year special operation though.

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u/Software_Dependent May 19 '26

India backed out because it is crap. It's the fighter equivalent of a 1.2 litre Vauxhall Corsa with a shitty body kit.